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Blogging Views Changed

Have any of your views changed since you started blogging here? Have these arguments been beneficial to you? If so, in what way?

Moderator - Yes, it has taught me several other different ways of looking at things. Also shown that there are other believers in Christ that take Him seriously.

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 ---j._nonymous on 2/4/08
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Thanks Joseph. I find MikeM and some others offensive in their anti-Biblical obsessions. God loves all mankind but definitely does not love the heart of those who reject the truth of His Word. Scripture says it is by faith (but not blind faith) we understand the world was created, and that which is not of faith is sin.

I have atheistic friends whom I respect more than many who claim to follow God but relentlessly attack the Truth of His Word.
---Warwick on 2/26/08

timotheus: I've seen you make some excellent points man. Keep it up. We need people like you here.
---j._nonymous on 2/25/08

I dislike pointless arguments, but enjoy vigorous debates that'll ultimately benefit (enlighten & build up) all concerned.

Some bloggers see only superficially instead of with understanding thru their eyes. They're soley feelings oriented (function only as physical beings). These precious souls use their eyes like insects (ant people, etc.), as feelers, & are thereby oblivious to God's greater spiritual reality.

I agree with the mod.

Good questions J._non'. :)
---Leon on 2/25/08

It's like our pastor said,
No Democrat has ever shed his blood for my sins,
No Republican has ever died on a cross, so I could go to heaven, BUT...
That's the choices we have, AND...

---timotheus on 2/25/08

MikeM I think I misunderstood what you first said.
We seem to be in agreement as to what would happen if we had a threocracy of extreme fundies
---alan_of_UK on 2/25/08

1.AlanUK-"But you are surely wrong about democracy. You say that is pagan, and presumably you therefore disapprove of it, and think we would be better under a theocratic state" No, No, No, I was making a point. Yes Democracy is pagan, and is is, as your Winston Churchell said, "Democracy is the worst form of goverment, except for all the others." I believe in the absolute seperaton of Church/State, mingling them corrupts both, does not our mutual histories teach us that?
---MikeM on 2/24/08

Steveng: this has become a play on words and definitions rather than an honest assessment of an honest question. We'll part ways now. Peace be with you.
---j._nonymous on 2/24/08

2. AlanUK 400 years ago both the RCC and protestants in Europs were all like todays fundamentalist. Their exclusivity led them to endless wars, intolerance, pograms, as religion was just a tool fo conrol. Today ONLY fundamentalist retain that medieval notion of intolerance, anti-science, anti-thought, anti-everything. We now have the religious right (fundies) who, if in control would be as repressive as any Islamic regime.
---MikeM on 2/24/08

MikeM .. # 1..I think you are wrong on several counts.
I agree that your "fundies" find it difficult to accept that those who do not deny evolution cannot possibly be Christians. And that extreme of Fundamentalism is demonstrably reactionary, because as we see here, it tends to be against any new understandings of things.
But you are surely wrong about democracy. You say that is pagan, and presumably you therefore disapprove of it, and think we would be better under a theocratic state
---alan_of_UK on 2/24/08

MikeM .. # 2 .. But think, MikeM what such a state would be like. If it were controlled by your fundies, or indeed many of the various denominations, there would be a rigid control of what we are allowed to think, or at least talk about. There would be no place for you, who believe wholeheartedly in Evolution, nor for me who thinks that maybe God took a bit longer than 144 hours to build the world.
I doubt if that is what you would want!
---alan_of_UK on 2/24/08

MikeM .. # 3 .. But realistically, such a non-democratic state would not have survived. There would have been a secularist underground develop, then a secularist revolution. At that stage your dictatorship (because that is what a non-democratic state is) would have become (as did the Communist dictatorship) an atheist state, and then none of us here would have been able to express what we believe.
I think most fundamentalists realise this, which is why so few of them would propose a theocracy.
---alan_of_UK on 2/24/08

This is how i look at it...I Believe this planet was filled with Dinosaurs and such and one day God wanted to make man and dwell with him, So this planet was made void and then remade into a safe habitation for man...Who knows how many planets or universes God has Destroied & rebuilt?God repented for making man & the Earth one day, & he destroied everyone,But 8 people...YLBD
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 2/24/08

Your evolution theory does not scare me, MikeM. I find it boring, very boring.
---Gwen on 2/24/08

Warwick, that is what I am talking about. I started to answer Mike, until I read your post. Beautiful response to MikeM's inquiry. The mind of Christ and the mind of "true science" are not aliens. There is a harmony between the two that is obvious when both logically and spiritually considered and exploded. Nothings to Hard for God and true faith welcomes sincere inquiry. Bless you, as a true scientist, opened to embracing the Father's gifts of grace and faith and your willingness to share.
---joseph on 2/23/08

yea,what it shown me is that the spirit of anti christ is alive and well,though it resides in evil deeds and thought,today it rears its head wordly and intellectually as science.
---tom2 on 2/24/08

well all I can say is some worship the creation,others the creator.some believe slime evolves into men,others believe god made man.
---tom2 on 2/24/08

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j._nonymous: "During this "debate"..."

I understand why you have quotes around the word debate. I don't debate. I tell it the way the Holy Spirit reveals it to me.

Besides, when did Jesus ever debate your eternal life?
---Steveng on 2/23/08

MikeM: I've read many of your post in many of the blogs. Do you ever discuss spiritual matters, things of the heart, instead of from the brain - your worldly knowledge? You must take real pride in your worldly knowledge, the things of the world. Remember, that someday soon, this world will be gone. Then what will you talk about? You must try to sandwich your worldly knowledge between two slices of spiritual encouragement and the Kingdom of God. You'll feel much better spiritually when you do.
---Steveng on 2/23/08

Evolution being correct scare fundamentalist. They see it as a negation of deity and morality. The same argument was made by the RCC /Protestants against Galileo and renaissance science. Creationism is therefore, as I see it reactionary. Secularism is a societal problem, science is only part of the reason for this secularism. Democracy is pagan and secular, and has a greater influence on society than evolution, yet only few fundamentalist openly attack secular democracy, this is peculiar.
---MikeM on 2/22/08

mikem,well first grader let me tell you that jesus said to pilate,my kingdom is not of this world.jesus came to die for our sins ,but his ministry,his message, is about spiritual truth,aka the heart,soul,and in the worldbut not of the world.born again of the spirit,he told nickodemus.unless you believe in jesus you can have all knowledge about everything,but as a man you are lost living in darkness and doomed to eternal death.
---tom2 on 2/22/08

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MikeM: "You are talking nihilism vs. objectivity."

I rest my case.
---Steveng on 2/22/08

Steveng: You and I have had a number of exchanges here which some may define as "debate", or "argument". During this "debate" I have seen your point more clearly and have had the opportunity to communicate mine more thoroughly. I have learned something about you, myself, and God which I did not know prior to this "debate". It has benefited me greatly.

So, going back to the original question, has it been beneficial to you? If so, in what way?
---j._nonymous on 2/22/08

Steveng, too educated to be Christian only to a fundamentalist. My education is finite, I'll never graduate to first grade in this life in my understanding of things spiritual in this life.
The matters of the heart and the soul transcends the literal world Emerson wrote something like that, and I agree. But we are talking about objective facts, not subjectively revealed truths were are always capricious when applied to anything more than an individuals life. You are talking nihilism vs. objectivity.
---MikeM on 2/21/08

MikeM: "...Too tough a question?"

Not by the Holy Spirit. There is a time and purpose for everything - a time for straight forward answers and a time to search yourself. There are times when a person can hand you every piece of information on a silver platter, but you will not increase your wisdom. Your wisdom grow when you seek the answers much like the Bereans. Paul didn't give all the answers. If you think I'm avoiding the answer so be it, but take it up with the Holy Spirit.
---Steveng on 2/18/08

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MikeM: concerning Psalms 104:5.

It appears, by reading many of your posts in different blogs, that you are a highly educated person. Too educated to be a Christian. While I see a house as a home, you see it as mostly bricks, mortar and lumber. You're searching for truth in a worldly way. The matters of the heart and the soul transcends the literal world. Science has not yet discovered what motivates the mind, the heart, and the soul. Learn to be a poet as the author of Psalms.
---Steveng on 2/18/08

a) MikeM sees Psalm 104:5 as a problem only because he desires to ridicule those who trust God's Word. He searches for problems in a vain hope of bolstering his own bizarre beliefs. Bizarre indeed he thinks he is evolving into a God.

Our earth is most certainly set upon its 'foundations' in that it does not wander aimlessly but by the power of forces created by God, such as gravity, it maintains its place in relation to the sun and other planets. cont.
---Warwick on 2/18/08

b) It rotates accurately around its axis while orbiting the sun so precisely that the pilot of a space craft, coming at constant speed, from a vast distance, could set its 'rudder' and intersect exactly, knowing precisely where the earth will be, at their crafts time of arrival.

Its set on its 'foundations' at an angle, in relation to the sun, so as to give us seasons.

That will do me as a definition of the earth 'set on its foundations.'
---Warwick on 2/18/08

There are three types of true Christians. 1. The ones who are drawing fat pay checks with a smile on their faces. 2. The type that are sitting in church every Sunday morning with a smile on their faces doing nothing. 3. The ones who are so busy suffering that we can not get anything done. No wonder the world is in such a hallelujah mess.
---catherine on 2/18/08

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I.S. thank you for giving me my first vote. I seem to be stuck at five.
---frances on 2/18/08

Steveng: You and I have had a number of exchanges here which some may define as "debate", or "argument". During this "debate" I have seen your point more clearly and have had the opportunity to communicate mine more thoroughly. I have learned something about you, myself, and God which I did not know prior to this "debate". It has benefited me greatly.

So, going back to the original question, has it been beneficial to you? If so, in what way?
---j._nonymous on 2/17/08

Steveng: By how you write I sense you are a man after God's heart. I agree with your point, but not fully.

I want to ask you a sincere question: how do you think we should tackle topics of contraversy or uncertainty?
---j._nonymous on 2/17/08

Steveng: Also, there are passages in favor of drinking alcohol in the Bible. There are other passages against it. What do you make of this?
---j._nonymous on 2/17/08

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Steveng, you employ a well-known way to bail, its the fallacy known as non-sequitor. You avoid- dodge the question. I asked questions as a teen in church, that was the Pastors favorite manor of bailing, avoid the question by redirecting, thus his absolute inability to answer any question of depth was protected under a layer of cute rhetorical comments, rendering credibility a non-issue.

The question about literalism, as related to Psalms 104:5 remain unanswered. Too tough a question?
---MikeM on 2/17/08

MikeM: "If the Bible is literal, how do u take Psalms 104:5?"

Take that issue up with the Holy Spirit.
---Steveng on 2/17/08

j._nonymous: Even though you proved that there were debates between the apostles and others that doesn't mean it's right. The Bible also shown people in sin, does that mean it's right? Not the Bible but God's word, His quotes, says not to debate or get involved in conspiracies. They cause more problems. Debates and conspiriacies do NOT bring people together as proven by how the world is today.
---Steveng on 2/17/08

It appears that the more you question the more problems you create. However, by making me look things up to check to see if they are correct, makes for a great study in itself. I don't claim to be very bright, I'm just a student myself. I do try to make sense out of all the issues.
---Dr._Rich on 2/15/08

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Steveng, It's the Bible that says not to debate, not me I a reminded of the pastor in the Miller play, The Crucible who said Tis not I that condemn thee, but holy writ This he said as he condemned the main protagonist to be hanged for witchcraft.

Worldly academic? Jefferson? What part of FREE INQUIRY do you have an issue with 'free' or 'inquiry?'

If the Bible is literal, how do u take
Psalms 104:5?
---MikeM on 2/14/08

Steveng: I gave you scriptures. Did you read those? The Bible would seem to contradict itself if you don't understand the context in which things are said. For instance: there are passages in favor of drinking vs. passages which are not in favor. You have to read it from Genesis to Revelations if you want to understand it at all. It balances itself out.
---j._nonymous on 2/14/08

j._nonymous: "Steven, this is not a simple black and white issue..."

The bible is so simple to understand even a child can understand it. People today are too knowledgeable that they tend to take simple concepts and make it complex.

Try this: Read the Bible without the chapter and verse numbers.

Or this: Read the Bible and write only what God said.

These will give you a whole different perspective of God's word.
---Steveng on 2/14/08

Emcee, thanks and blessings.
---InimicusStultitiae on 2/13/08

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"Have these arguments been beneficial to you? If so, in what way?"

I have learned that each of us are at different points in our spiritual walk and we all need one another, just as the hand needs the foot. Some people have studied in one or two areas and have valuable insight into things which others have taken for granted or never considered. But I look forward to the day when we will all stand together united in His presence and simply worship Him for who He is.
---righteouswarriors on 2/13/08

Fran, I gave you your very first vote back when. :-) By the way, my wife's first name is Frances.
---InimicusStultitiae on 2/12/08

IS:: May the God of Love reign in your Heart as we share His love & joy, by His graces.AMEN.Took me along time to see that post but it made my day.:-):-)
---Emcee on 2/12/08

Frances ... Once you have given points to someone, you can't give them any more ... but I think you can if you wait for some time.
---alan_of_UK on 2/12/08

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Rita ... It is possible to give yourself points .. if you are operating from someone else's computer, and you xan get your associates to vote for yuo continuously (see waht I said to Frances)
The person in question built up a huge number of votes, in spite of havig no posted support from other bloggers, and then suddenly, the votes were reduced to zero, and you cannot vote for him now
---alan_of_UK on 2/12/08

I returned to the sacraments of the Catholic Church shortly after Christmas. Thank you, Catholic bloggers!
---InimicusStultitiae on 2/12/08

"I've said it before and I'll say
it again: Life moves pretty fast."

"If you don't stop and look around
once in a while, you could miss it."

Ferris looks at CAMERA. FERRIS (happy sigh) Yeah, life is a carousel. A great big crazy ball of pure living, breathing joy and delight. He rolls over on his back and puts his hands behind his head. FERRIS You gotta get one.

He smiles. MUSIC UP BIG
---Asheep_at_the_Wheel on 2/12/08

JohnT, how did that happen? I would have thought that one could not give oneself points and, if possible, probably only once. Who would know how to bypass the system other than Christianet staff? Would someone who sends in the kind of responses we see from Eloy actually want to do that? Why?
---RitaH on 2/12/08

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I started with O, went to 6 points suddenly, then back to 4, which has remained the same from that day, ages ago. I tried to give points to some people and it did not register, some points I gave to others did register. I think there is a spanner in the works somewhere.
---frances on 2/11/08

#1 "Saying dont debate is saying dont think." It's the Bible that says not to debate, not me.
---Steveng on 2/11/08

Steven, this is not a simple black and white issue. On one hand you are right, on the other you are wrong. I'll prove it to you...
---j._nonymous on 2/11/08

#2 Acts 9:28 So Saul stayed with them and moved about freely in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord. 29 He talked and DEBATED with the Grecian Jews, but they tried to kill him.
---j._nonymous on 2/11/08

#3 Acts 15:1 Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and DEBATE with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
---j._nonymous on 2/11/08

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#4 Acts 18:27 When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. On arriving, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed. 28 For he vigorously refuted the Jews in public DEBATE, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
---j._nonymous on 2/11/08

#5 Therefore, debate is not evil in itself. But if you feel the need to run from certain debates because of a personal conviction, by all means, do. Unless, in your running you misrepresent Christ. There are times when we need to confront and debate. Sometimes to thwart evil, sometimes to sharpen ourselves. If we debate in order to offend, or afflict, its wrong. At the same time, just because we offend or afflict in our debating doesn't neccessarily mean it's wrong.
---j._nonymous on 2/11/08

MikeM: "Saying dont debate is saying dont think." It's the Bible that says not to debate, not me.

"True faith has no fear of free inquiry, if ones faith cannot stand the test of reed inquiry, its finished.-Thomas Jefferson "

Spoken like a true worldly academic.
---Steveng on 2/11/08


I tried to write without actually name calling *may very well be arrogant* ...honestly not trying to imply you were ...

as for theology ..I agree it's something that can be distorted ...sometimes there's a fine line between studying God for the right reasons and or wrong as you wrote

theology tends to be an academic view learned within a structured academic setting ...where a personal study would be more intimate with the Holy Spirit guiding
---Rhonda on 2/11/08

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"The church in not a building, it is the Christians" -This is a form of gnosticism,what american protestantism has evolved into where 'everybody is their own church.' ---MikeM on 2/11/08

MikeM: I understand your overall point. However, where in Scripture does it say the Church is the building? The Church IS the body of believers. But, your are right to say we can't just believe what we want and still truthfully be Christians. So, what MUST we believe? That's the question.
---j._nonymous on 2/11/08

John T ... Hi!!
---alan_of_UK on 2/11/08


eloy has zero points, check for yourself. When the points were first in place, he found a way to bypass the system, and gave himself far more than anyone else, and in such a degree, that statistical analysis (plus common sense) demonstrated his manipulations
---John_T on 2/11/08

ELOY. A message for you. Over the weekend I tried to give you a point. And the thing wouldn't click. So I couldn't. You probably ought to have fifty by now At least.
---catherine on 2/11/08

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My knowledge is finite, I always keep that in mind. God must always be approached with absolute humility. As a teen in a religious school I remember writing a long essay on Gibbons Decline and fall. The only response to it was that I was full of the devil, and I was offered an F by a very outraged over emotive teacher. That clich, Full of the devil was repeated several times. I was informed I was. putting others down by daring to think outside of the box.
---MikeM on 2/11/08

Steveng, Theres no debate in Cuba, North Korea. In 1989 students in China were debating, what happened to them? Seems persons of the dictatorial variety dont like debate. Traditionally when Churchs, both RCC and Protestants ruled the State (the Dark Ages) no debate was allowed. When one says dont debate they've already lost the debate. Saying dont debate is saying dont think.

True faith has no fear of free inquiry, if ones faith cannot stand the test of reed inquiry, its finished.-Thomas Jefferson
---MikeM on 2/11/08

Debate is expository, and those who fear debate are fearing such exposition. Its the weak that fear debate. The fact that the Bible has withstood debate and attacks from all directions shows its power and strengths. Several times I have heard of atheists who have set out to discredit the Bible-and as a result turned around becoming its greatest defenders, which is respectable, displaying a real depth of faith.
---MikeM on 2/11/08

"The church in not a building, it is the Christians" -This is a form of gnosticism,what american protestantism has evolved into where 'everybody is their own church.' Such a view leaves each individual to whatever subjective whims of belief they may wake up with on a given day, the Bible being reduced to a mere talisman.

Paul said "do not forget the ORDIANCES i gave you," then one must be duly ordained to oficiate such ordainces? Hummm
---MikeM on 2/11/08

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Rhonda: you make some good points. I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. You are getting hung up on the word "theology". From what you and others here say, you DO study the Bible, which is about God, hence the word "theology": the study of God. Maybe we need to make a distinction between good theology and bad theology. Theology with Jesus at the center, and guided by the Holy Spirit = good theology. Anything else = bad theology. Better?
---j._nonymous on 2/10/08

IMHO there is a spirit of Truth (God) and a spirit of Lying (Satan). I don't believe in letting Satan have it all his own way. The Bible is there to counter the lies of the devil. Theology is there to help Bible Believers to a better understanding of the Bible. (This does not mean I agree with every theologian). We should not fear debate, if we have the truth in us. Just liars should fear any debate and turn serious discussion into a circus.
---frances on 2/10/08

People are afraid of the truth. This is ridiculous because it is unfounded fear for believers in God. God is truth. A search for the truth will end in finding Jesus Christ. If Christians do not search for the truth before it is completely destroyed, Christianity will collapse, the world will become a jail, and Christians will be blamed for it. After all, they could have countered the lies.
---frances on 2/10/08

"Theology is a MAN-MADE STUDY about God".

---Rhonda on 2/9/08

Rhonda: If you define theology this way, I understand why you make your other comments (and I agree with them, believe it or not). But "theology" does not have to be defined as such. And, true and pure theology is of the kind that brings us closer to Christ because we learn of Him through our study.

As far as me being arrogant... you're not the first to say so.
---j._nonymous on 2/10/08

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Mark, your other statements seemed very cliche (which I don't ever appreciate because cliche's leave so much open for interpretation, and so many Christians use them with out anything but superficial knowledge to back them up). By reading your other statements, your point is more clear to me. I just want to apologize for misjudging you. Your obviously are not as shallow as I thought at first. Hope you forgive me. Have a blessed day!
---j._nonymous on 2/10/08

free inquiry discussion/debate however one chooses to communicate on a topic is helpful ...haughtines in knowledge putting others responses down isn't helpful ...analyzing Gods Word may help many with understanding ...however those so high on themselves for all of their wonderous learnings don't impart much wisdom in their learnings

...those led by Gods Holy Spirit in their understanding of His Word is a Spiritual study ...not of the man made theology study

2 different unrelated studies
---Rhonda on 2/10/08

is the book of wisdom known as some other book in the bible?
---john on 2/10/08

It is written to stay away from conspiracies and debates. 2 Corinthians 12:20

There is no debating the Words of God. His words was, is and ever shall be without end. There is no debating. Debating is for the weak minded, the skeptic, the unbeliever, and the new Christian. The Bible is not a religion, it is a testimony of God and His relationship with His people. The church in not a building, it is the Christians. The New Testament is a witness of Jesus and how the OT prophesies were foretold.
---Steveng on 2/10/08

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Is Mark saying 'dont think"? I do not argue, I do believe in debate. A free and open dialectic should be no threat to ones faith. Subjective presuppositions that preclude open discussion, objectivc evidence, and debate are a prelude to self-deception, therefore If FREE INQUIRY is a threat to ones faith, then such a faith is finished.
---MikeM on 2/10/08

The Bible is theology? Really? How so?? Where in the Bible does it tell me about theology?

Theology is a MAN-MADE STUDY about God.

And there is NOTHING in the Bible that tells me about theology ..the reason there is nothing in the Bible about theology - it is not of God.

Theology may not necessarily be anti-God ...claiming those who do not subscribe to theology as being anti-Bible and ignorant may very well be arrogant ...however thats just my humble opinion
---Rhonda on 2/9/08

...Gods Plain Truth was written for ALL of mankind NOT JUST a few chosen people who have academia credentials believing all who are not so worldly studied as them are so entirely ignorant of Gods Word

Then missing the point of Marks wry humor which by the way I thought was funny ...and noting why he didnt follow theology seeking Gods Holy Spirit not mans reasoning
---Rhonda on 2/9/08

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