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Renounce Jesus For Your Life

Have you considered that in the near future you could be challenged to renounce Jesus to save your life on Earth?
If the rapture of the church were not true (not saying it isn't) wouldn't many people be set up for failure by it in a time when we should be ready?

Moderator - No. Those that don't believe the rapture theory, think they should live everyday for Christ because He could come back any day and there are not second chances which the rapture theory teaches.

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 ---Pharisee on 3/6/08
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What I've considered is that people will be expecting someone to make them renounce Christ...and they never will...but all the while as they're waiting for this person or power to ask them to renounce Christ, they are following a false Christ...a false Christianity.
One that they, ironically, will never renounce.
---Todd1 on 6/2/08

Chris>>Believe what you may.
---catherine on 6/2/08

Catherine, I know U love the Lord, but I disagree on some of your points. 1)Judas' SIN wasn't betraying Christ, It was never TRUSTING Him. (John 6:64 & 70). 2) Malachi 4:2 was already fulfilled when Jesus walked on earth(Matt 9:20, 14:36, Mark 5:28). Please check the word for "wings" in Mal 4:2. It is/was the edge of a garment. Love U.
---chris on 5/31/08

All that eat bread with Christ are not His disciples indeed. Judas was guilty of the basest treachery>>> He lifted up the heel against Christ, he forsook Him, he dispised Him, he became an enemy to Him. It is no new thing for those that were Christ's seeming friends to prove His real enemies.
---catherine on 5/30/08

Someday the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings [Mal. 4:2]. It is therefore only logical that the children of light should await that glorious day!...Because of what we shall escape. "For God hath not appointed us to wrath....This is reference to both external wrath [Jn. 3:36, Col. 3:6] and tribulational wrath [Rev. 6:17, 15:1, 11:18].===Who died for us, that, whether we are wake or sleep we should live together with Him. ===Now, these scriptures does not teach soul sleep.
---catherine on 4/19/08

The Lord said, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth on me, though he die, [A Christian who has died], yet shall he live [he will be raised at the rapture]: And whosoever liveth and believeth on me [a believer alive at the time of the rapture] shall never die. [Jn. 11:25,26]. The End.
---catherine on 4/19/08

The rapture is no theory. It is Bible: >>>A return "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a SHOUT, with the voice of the Archangle, and with the trump of GOD". A resurrection...and the dead in Christ shall rise first. A rapture "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds"...A reunion...To meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. More
---catherine on 4/19/08

Be watchful==="Therefore let us not sleep as do others, but let us watch and be sober"....What are we to watch for? [you had better be watching too], The glorious return of Christ.===The rapture and Jesus Christ returning to earth goes hand in hand....Why are we to watch for it? "Ye are all the children of light. And the children of the day. This is in contrast to the unsaved who are described as the children of darkness.>>more
---catherine on 4/19/08

Satan has concocted another lie and 90%of the Christians has fallen into his web.

Consider this: A Christian believes in the pre-trib rapture. He also believes in the Mark of the Beast. He believes that the Mark of the Beast will happen after he is raptured so he is not worried. But he unknowingly takes the Mark of the Beast because he didn't believe it's the true Mark of the Beast because he would have been ratured before the Mark of the Beast. And whola, Satan has another Christian.
---Steveng on 3/17/08


Discernment of Spirits is one of the gifts of the spirit (along with prophecy, tongues, interpretation of tongues, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, etc.)
Not everyone was promised every one of any of these gifts.
So what is someone who wasn't lucky enough to receive discernment of spirits to do?
---StrongAxe on 3/17/08

There is nothing contradicting in the passages of Enoch, Elijah, and John 3:13. In John "No one has ascended to heaven" has to go with the whole context of what Jesus was saying which includes, "but He who came down from heaven" The purpose for this words were really in contradiction to other religious systems claims to special revelation from God. Jesus insisted that no one has ascended to heaven in such a way as to return and talk heavenly things, (2 Cor. 12:1-4).
---Mark_V. on 3/16/08

#2. Only He (Jesus) had His permanent abode in Heaven prior to His incarnation and therefore, only He has the true knowledge regarding heavenly wisdom (Prov. 30:4). He was the only human who could enter heaven and come with that wisdom since He was the only incarnated One, God and man. Jesus was speaking concerning the topic of the message, "if I have told you heavenly things and you do not believe" The passages on Enoch in Hebrew 11:5 were quoting Genesis 5:24.
---Mark_V. on 3/16/08

#3. Enoch, Elijah both walked with God. Through God's providence He saw to not allow them to die but take them to heaven with a purpose in mind. Those who's testimony in the world is truely holy, shall find themselves with God. The purpose God had for Enoch's testimony was to give evidence of the reality of a future state, and the possibility of the body's existing in glory in that state, for it was encouraging to the hope of all that walk with God by faith that they shall be for ever with Him.
---Mark_V. on 3/16/08

rapture is nothing more than religious brainwashing a fable invented by one man using one verse from Gods Word

A true Christian is to WATCH ...if you hold fast to some 'rapture event' truly believing you're going to be plucked up before Gods Wrath where Christians go to some holding tank in the sky while the tribulation is happening THEN God has contradicted Himself instructing mankind 'to watch' because the manmade rapture theory has people disappearing before anything happens
---Rhonda on 3/14/08

if a 'rapture' were true then what are you watching for if you are to escape before it all happens?
---Rhonda on 3/14/08


Christians are WATCHING SO THEY MAY ESCAPE the things to come

As Steveng posted Gods people have always fled His Wrath

Matthew 24:15-17 VERY CLEAR ...God would be contradicting himself here telling His people not go back for belongings if He were just going to pluck them up to escape His wrath ...Translation: don't go back for belongings because we're FLEEING for our mortal lives to escape God's Wrath going to a place of safety until Jesus returns at end of tribulation
---Rhonda on 3/14/08

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Christians will live through the tribulation until Christ returns when He resurrects all Christians past and present into Spirit Beings

rapture theory sets those who believe in it up for failure ...again there is no point in watching if you're going to be part of a disappearence act

Believe Gods Word where He instructs mankind to WATCH rather than the teachings of corrupt men who use one verse in Gods Word to proclaim a 'rapture'
---Rhonda on 3/14/08

when the two witnesses arrive here to proclaim Gods Truth to all of mankind the 2 years prior to the tribulation i truly pray those who believe in 'rapture' have their minds opened to Gods Truth and escape the challenges ahead where their hearts may be become hard wondering why they were not whisked away and potentially loose their crown and eternity by holding fast to their religious teachings and renouncing Jesus for more time here as a mortal being
---Rhonda on 3/14/08

The fact that Jesus spoke Aramaic and it was written in Greek isn't the point I was making.
The point is that the word means what the Lord reveals by his Spirit and it cannot be sought out with a concordance or dictionary with a carnal mind.
The point you raised about what each feels the Spirit reveals to them is why each had better go twain in diligence, obedience and love.
And they better have discernment of spirits and know it was the Spirit that revealed it.
---Frank on 3/14/08


As to the point you raised about the Holy Ghost: That is exactly right.
Even here many have different opinions and that is what the word calls a false witness. No agreement.
That also verifies why people better have the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
I hope I explained it good enough.
---Frank on 3/14/08

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Meanwhile back to the question.....
Our lives on this earth are just a whisper, a short span in our 'earth suits.' We as Christians are meant for eternity. A glad YES, I would leave this messy place in a heartbeat rather than denounce my Lord and Saviour!
---NVBarbara on 3/14/08


Many cults teach that the return of Jesus will be secret. This is how groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses can cover up for previous false prophecies (that Jesus would reutrn in 1914) by saying "He DID return, just invisibly". The Seventh Day Adventists have a similar theory called "Investigative Judgment".

In contrast, the Bible says that his return will be seen by all - like a lightning flash tha is visible across the entire sky, from the east to the west.
---StrongAxe on 3/13/08


As far as Jesus talking about the Temple (and meaning his own body), he often spoke in metaphors, but people erroneously took his words literally. It wasn't just the Pharisees.
---StrongAxe on 3/13/08


A minor quibble: We don't have the words of Jesus in Aramaic. The entire New Testament was written in Greek.

There are theories that there was an earlier gospel (called "Q"), written in Aramaic, that may have provided common source material for Matthew, Mark, and Luke, but that document is lost to us.
---StrongAxe on 3/13/08

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Frank: (1)

One problem with human language is that it's imprecise, so even though words say something, they require interpretation. However, their meanings are flexible only so far. If I say "this paper is white", you can't interpret that to mean "it's really black".
---StrongAxe on 3/13/08

Frank: (2)

One problem with saying that "the Holy Ghost is necessary" to interpreting anything, is that it means that anyone is free to interpret it however he pleases, because he can just say "well, the Holy Ghost told me it means such and such". And how can you argue with that, other than by saying "Well, He told ME otherwise, so obviously YOUR Holy Ghost is an impostor" - and anyone listening to both of you won't have a clue who is right.
---StrongAxe on 3/13/08

Rebecca_D: "Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses that Revelations talks about. They are the only ones that haven't seen death."

I believe that you should read and study the verses you claim that both these people are in heaven, but be careful not to make Jesus a liar that no one has gone to heaven.

Prove to me that they are alive. Where are they now? Show me verses.
---Steveng on 3/13/08

Two verses in the NT says that no man has gone to heaven:

"NO MAN HAS ASCENDED TO HEAVEN but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." John 3:13

So, where have Enock and Elijah gone to?
---Steveng on 3/13/08

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For 400 years after Malachi's direct message,
God remained silent.

Malachi, "My messenger", "Messenger of Yahweh", speaks of the coming of the "messenger of the Covenant".

Four hundred years of prophetic silence, broken by the words of the prophet, John the Baptist.

MMR Michelle
---Michelle on 3/6/08
---Michelle on 3/12/08

When I received that word last year in 2007, I did not remember that in 1607, Jamestown was established.
Four hundred years is significant, because that's how long the Israelites were in bondage to Egypt, 400 years of silence before God spoke through His prophet, John the Baptist.

MMR Michelle
---Michelle on 3/12/08

It's not a time to wail over the discomforts of the coming future.
It's not a time to even consider the loss.

Now is the time to turn to God with repentance.
Turn back with desperate desire to obey Him,
love Him, serve Him, Worship Him.

Remove yourself from humanism, and you will know the comfort of His presence in the coming storms.
You will have His strength to face the future.

MMR Michelle
---Michelle on 3/12/08

God loves His people.
He extends grace to any who will humbly turn back to Him.

I am watching for a John the Baptist movement of God to come back to this world. It may last for years, but God's greater movement is more powerful than what the One World Church has.

God's movement will prepare His children for what's coming.
Something from God is getting ready to happen.

MMR Michelle
---Michelle on 3/12/08

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I was referring to those who think that when they look up the meaning of a word they can prove a point against what the Spirit reveals.
The temple is the words of Jesus in Aramaic.
Although he said temple he meant his body. They thought he meant the temple building.
The word means what he reveals by his Spirit.
Not neccessarily what a concordance or dictionary shows.
That is why the baptism of the Holy Ghost is neccessary.
I hope this helps.
---Frank on 3/13/08

StrongAxe 2,
John 2:19-21 shows that the pharisees thought Jesus was talking about the building when he was really talking about his body.
They probably knew Aramaic and Hebrew better than any of us.
We can look up the meaning of every word in the Bible and still not know Christ if we haven't got the Holy Ghost to reveal what Jesus says the words mean.
The word says the mysteries of wisdom and knowledge are unsearchable.
I hope these two answers help.
---Frank on 3/13/08

"Before the falling away, the Holy Spirit is coming to the Church with a John the Baptist move of God. This will put the axe to the root of the trees. A purging - whether ministries or lay people.

---Michelle on 10/11/07"

I heard this word confirmed tonight by a Pastor with the gift of prophecy tonight.
He gave the exact word for America.
The Bible says let everything be established out the mouth of two or three witnesses.

---Michelle on 3/12/08

Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses that Revelations talks about. They are the only ones that haven't seen death. Every person is appointed to die once. They have to die before going into the kingdom of God.
---Rebecca_D on 3/12/08

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steveng, I am sure you will show me where in the Bible you infer that I am making Jesus a Liar? I have no problem saying if I am wrong, please just quote book, chapter, and verse. I will read it and if I misspoke I will give you a public apology. I never claimed to be infallible.
---pgfdottie on 3/12/08

Jesus' return will be a secret. So nobody will have an upcoming date so they can get ready. To your question. We must depend on God to keep us. And if you are really saved He will. Do not WORRY. that is, IF you are saved. And that is a BIG IF, by the way.
---catherine on 3/12/08


I am a bit curious about what you are talking about when you're mentioning "temple". Which verses are you referring to? I'm assuming it's something in the later parts of the Old Testament (since it's in Aramaic, while the pre-exilic parts are in Hebrew, and the New Testament is in Greek).

Also, to which "root forms" are you referring?
---StrongAxe on 3/11/08

That is why yourrelationship MUST be based on LOVE. Faith can falter, love never fails. Job was ableto remain true to God because of LOVE. Job is a LOVE story.

Humanity never understoodscripture. We should "walk bythe spirit", Galatians5:16/25. We read "the word of TRUTH" 2Timothy2:15, Ephes1:13, John14:6, the INTRODUCTORY doctrine, Hebrews6:1.

There should be no SELFabasement (Colossians2:18/23). HAVE LOVE "in my inmost SELF" John7:22"I am who I am".
---greg on 3/11/08

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It's not proud.
Read the blogs man.
It's sad what is posted in Christ's name.
It's also a warning to babes in Christ here.
Those with a reprobate mind will probably be the ones that get offended and post contrary.
Jesus said FEW would find the way.
I trust him over the multitudes here.
---Frank on 3/11/08

pgfdottie: " you remember Enoch? Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken away..."

So, where do you suppose Enoch went? Be careful not to make Jesus a liar.
---Steveng on 3/10/08

The pressure to receive him, will not come from him, but rather those who ignorantly advocate him and his spurious promises. It is the expectancy of the "rapture" from an expected time of physical hardship that will "set up for failure"

I totally agree. I don't completely trust the rapture doctrine.
---Pharisee on 3/10/08

"Second, there is nothing new under the sun. No one in history was ever raptured."

Enoch, Elijah, Jesus, and I am guessing Moses, because the angels had to fight off Satan for his body! (read Jude again)
---Pharisee on 3/10/08

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Most here may have been turned over to a reprobate mind already. Like the pharisees that couldn't understand what the healed blind man said. Even though he spake plainly.
---Frank on 3/10/08

That's one of the most prideful and satanic statements I've ever read here...Congratulations.
---Pharisee on 3/10/08

You know what I find absolutely fascinating, so many Christians (cept me that I know of) has got the end times nailed down, and made his website of extraordinary claims...Last night I ACTUALLY read that God's witnesses would be preaching the words of a fallen human preacher! That's Dumb!

I've purposely NEVER listened to anyone's end times theories and I won't, I'll compare them to the word, and I've purposely never studied eschatology that deeply, but recently I've found a dire need to know.
---Pharisee on 3/10/08

If given the choice between denouncing Jesus and having my head chopped off I doubt if I would be able to run toward the chopping block(as some, traditionally speaking, say that the apostle Paul did) but I still believe that I would be able to walk to the block. My only regret would be that I have not witnessed to more people.
---Mima on 3/10/08

Before anyone jumps on my post about the "temple" let me add this.
It does not mean "body of Jesus" in Aramaic either.
The gay community is using their study of root forms of words to justify their abominable lusts as well as the straight so called Christians.
The word means what Jesus Christ says it means.
---Frank on 3/10/08

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Though I myself am prepared to die for my faith and never will reject Christ Jesus, the Rapture is real, rescuing the saved in Christ before the time of trial meant to test all of the world (Rev 3:10). Though there will be Christians during that time, they were not saved before the Rapture
---Christina on 3/10/08

I am soooo sorry man!
I read your posts without my glasses and saw Frank instead of First!
I thought you were lashing out at me.
That is my mistake and I am truly sorry.
I do agree with your views on the all you posted.
---Frank on 3/10/08

Steveng on 3/9/08.. Eight, why would Jesus command the Christians to flee if they are going to be raptured without harm?
Steveng "where" do you get this nonsense? Are you referring to the Jews being told to flee to the mountains? They were told not to return for any of their belongings? "they were not Christians!!!! Try to show where in the Bible you get your facts.
---pgfdottie on 3/10/08

First many of these things are types and shadows of spiritual things.
Many have already been turned over to a reprobate mind and cannot discern them.
As for study, the word "temple" doesn't mean "body" in the Hebrew. Many call Christ a liar in their blindness.
The word means what HE says and what HE reveals.
---Frank on 3/10/08

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The word also says that Noah condemned the world. It also says that all will appear at the judgment seat of Christ.
Judgment begins in the house of God here and the second witness is there when they answer.
Don't read things into what I post.
As for being raptured, Enoch the seventh from Adam was. Quickened without seeing death.
---Frank on 3/10/08

Steveng, do you remember Enoch? Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, and was not found, because God had taken him, for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Steveng Your words,
Second, there is nothing new under the sun. No one in history was ever raptured. Jesus himself said no one has ascended into heaven.
---pgfdottie on 3/10/08

Another thing.
Where did you twist what I said into believing in a pre-trib rapture?
I did not say that.
Many have already refused to hate their life in this world and kept it unto death!
And, I never claimed to be better than anyone!
Most here may have been turned over to a reprobate mind already. Like the pharisees that couldn't understand what the healed blind man said. Even though he spake plainly.
---Frank on 3/10/08

To answer the original question, many already have renounced Jesus to save their life on earth. The sad part is that they don't see it.
---Frank on 3/7/08

Steveng- I don't know how you twisted all of that from this!
Maybe it hit home!
---Frank on 3/10/08

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This is a frivolous debate. But if you must, let's reason this out.

First, There is only One Judgement Day, not two. If people are raptured at the beginning, judgement has been pronounced, because the Christians were taken and the evil people left on Earth. But it is written that both the tares and the wheat will be harvested at the same time.
---Steveng on 3/9/08

Second, there is nothing new under the sun. No one in history was ever raptured. Jesus himself said no one has ascended into heaven. Neither Moses or Elijah will be the witnesses. God even says that he buried Moses in a valley. I suggest reading a phrase dictionary telling the many ways to say that a person kicked the bucket, bit the dust, he flew on the wings of the wind to the happy hunting ground, etc.
---Steveng on 3/9/08

Third, Every time there was a catastrophe, Godly men and women were not raptured, but were protected by God while still on earth. Noah and his family, David and his friends, the Israelites during the plagues, etc. The Christians during the tribulation period will be protected the same way by the mark of God. All humanity is in the same boat and will experience the same thing, but Christians are protected.
---Steveng on 3/9/08

Forth, There are only two resurrections, not three. If there was a pre-trib rapture, there would be three resurrections - one at the beginning of the tribulation period, one at the end of the tribulation (to bring up the Christians and converted ones), and one at the end of the thousand year period. It's written that blessed are those who rise during the first resurrection. The second resurrection is at the end of the thousand year period.
---Steveng on 3/9/08

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Fifth, Why have a tribulation if the Christians were taken up and the evil left on earth? Many Christians believe that they would rise before the tribulation to escape Gods wrath. But why would the dead be taken? Can the dead feel the wrath of God on Earth if theyre dead?
---Steveng on 3/9/08

Sixth, how can you Christians be so vain to think you are more special than the Christians and Godly people who died in all of history. Don't be afraid about what is about to happen during these end times for God promised to protect you from his wrath. Persecution, on the other hand, is what we will face. Are you willing to die for Jesus like all the other Godly people and Christians in the past? Now is the time to strengthen your relationship with God.
---Steveng on 3/9/08

Seventh, the verses that most Christians believe that pertain to the rapture can be easily plugged into the beginning, the middle or the end of the so-called tribulation period. Christians will be going through the tribulation much like all the other people who gone through tribulation in the past like the Israelites in Egypt during the plagues, Noah and his family, and all the remnants. Dont worry though if your faith in God is strong, He will protect you.
---Steveng on 3/9/08

Eight, why would Jesus command the Christians to flee if they are going to be raptured without harm?
---Steveng on 3/9/08

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Last, but not least, Christians will be warned about any event before it happens.

So, forget about this rapture thing, about the age of the universe, about knowing how the Earth began, or when it will end, about dinosaurs, about "Whos on first, What's on second and I-don't-knows on third." Teach the Gospel that Jesus taught - the Gospel of the soon to come Kingdom of God and how to get there. Go out into the world and spread the Gospel. For the harvest is plenty, but the workers are few.
---Steveng on 3/9/08

mima, you can't build a doctrine on just one verse, you must look at all verses concerned in order to find the truth. Read the scriptures in context, and not henpeck at them to pick the ones that you like.
---aleia8534 on 3/8/08

Mima 2) "And so shall we 'ever' (defined always, evermore) be with the Lord". References our state of being rather than the atmosphere of the sky. The word 'clouds' refers to the vast number of angels that will accompany Jesus during His return, (as well as multitude of those "in Christ" who are raised and changed). Documented in (2 Thes. 1:7,10). Please understand Mima I am not denouncing your belief, nor advocation mine, simply sharing my belief in response to your question.
---Josef on 3/8/08

Mima, I have posted this before in response to this inquiry, I do not usually repeat responses, however I think this one warrants repeating. The words 'caught up' refers to our being preferred and taken supernaturally, by the Word of God as we are literally plucked from our corruptible bodies and clothed in an instant within our incorruptible ones. We will then encounter the Lord in that breath of life body, to stand with him as the eternal essence of His Spirit and glory encompasses us.
---Josef on 3/8/08

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I personally do not believe anyone will deliberately denounce Jesus. Most who have any knowledge of Him, loves or at least admires Him. The problem will be, out of a love for Him, and a desire for His return or His coming, depending on one's belief, many will welcome and rejoice over whom they believe to be Jesus. The coming of the spurious messiah will be a convincing deception. He will not come to destroy or kill, physically, but rather to deceive spiritually. Cont.2
---Josef on 3/8/08

2) The pressure to receive him, will not come from him, but rather those who ignorantly advocate him and his spurious promises. It is the expectancy of the "rapture" from an expected time of physical hardship that will "set up for failure" or more accurately cause some to "rejoice in his unrighteousness", when they should be "working in the field" to "give meat, in due season, unto their house whole". Which may ultimately lead to their spiritual demise.
---Josef on 3/8/08

Mima: I did not say I did not believe in the rapture. I do believe in the rapture. I do not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture theory. I believe, just as Thessalonians says. Jesus Christ will return in the air and take all his saints[from Adam to the last one] from the grave and then those living. I also believe at that point, will begin the judgment seat of Christ and the great white throne judgment. No intervals in between or second chances for anyone. We shall be forever with the Lord.
---ian8763 on 3/7/08

Mima, 1 Thess 4:17 doesn't mean that Jesus does a U-turn in mid-air. Descend means to go from up to down.

WE are the ones who do this, and escort Him down to earth as He comes to judge.

There's nothing in the passage that says it happens before the Tribulation, but the other things it mentions make it clear that it's at the end.
---Jack on 3/7/08

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It means we will at the Second Coming of JESUS be raptured to meet him in the air while all the wicked cry for the rocks and mountains to fall down on them and then they die as the tares which are destroyed. See Matthew 24, 25
---Samuel on 3/7/08

Mima, What it means is that all the faithful "Paulites" (those who believe that God is speaking thru Paul's mouth) are pro rapture. While we who know he was a Pharisee, who believed in the immortality of the soul,can see he was attempting to show that he was a "Prophet"! If you're a Paulite,believe it,if not leave it with the rest of his "yet-to-be-fulfilled" prophecies!
---1st_cliff on 3/7/08

To those who do not believe in the rapture theory I ask you this question, what does this Scripture in first Thessalonian 4:17,"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" mean pray tell?
---Mima on 3/7/08

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