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What Is The GREAT Deception

The Bible speaks of the lost being given over to a great deception, that they might believe a lie. In your opinion what form will this deception take?

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2 Thessalonians 2:2-4
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of the Lord is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means:for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,and that man of sin be revealed,the son of perdition,

We see here a warning of deception concerning those who say the Day of the Lord is at Hand. The Day of the Lord is the Day of God's wrath.

Christians were being persecuted and suffering, and were told it was the Day of the Lord.

Today, many seeing difficult times now are teaching the same thing saying we are NOW in the Great Tribulation.
---kathr4453 on 3/11/09

the false gospel
---john on 3/10/09

The biggest delusion is...

...making Christians believe they must belong to a denominational "church."

When Jesus said he was going to build his church, he didn't mean a building, a non-profit corporation, or a denomination (each having their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the Bible) but more like a multilevel marking organization building each member's downline - the people. God wants to populate the Kingdom of God not denominational "churches."

The church is not a building, a denomination, or a non-profit corporation. It is people - Christians, period.
---Steveng on 3/10/09

The strong delusion has been around all throughout history for those who'd rather continue in their own ways and choose their kingdoms/"gods" to be of this world.

Man has always made the iniquitous choice to embrace the kingdoms of money, fame/pride, and power to be our "gods".

Ezekiel 14:4
"who takes his idols into his heart and sets the stumbling block of his iniquity before his face...".

Believing that the "strong delusion" is a future event is what makes it so strong.

Because we refuse to look in the "mirror" and see our "natural face"...

James 1:23
"who observes his natural face in a mirror...".

All verses are from the RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 3/10/09

You will find the answer in 2 John 7. "Those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh". This is the "Deceiver and the Antichrist".
---catherine on 3/10/09

Satan is the master of deception and in order to deceive a people, he would have to make falsehood fairseeming. He would not come to a person and say who he is and his purpose. That would be too easy. He would have to make the world think he was GOD himself. The Bible is an amazing piece of work. How much effort would it take to mis-translate one word or use the wrong preposition or conjunction to change the whole intent of what is being said? After all, how many versions do we have to date - about 100? Isn't this how Adam and Eve were decieved? We have to do more than just profess Jesus. Satan can do that and quite well.
---Kimberly on 3/8/09

The great deception is beleiveing that you could coerce people to do and say what you want and that it will be so.
---tonne on 8/7/08

ServingHim: "Exhort one another daily does NOT mean what you are saying. Nowhere does it say that believers must gather daily..."

Hebrews 3:13, Hebrews 10:24-25. Also many groups in the Bible prayed daily having over one hundred in the upper room to wait for the Holy Spirit. Acts 1?

By insisting that people must do this (which is impossible for many people with families and jobs)..."

It's their eternal life loss. Besides, do you mean that people's lives are so full of activities that they can't spend an hour every day together to make sure that everyone is on the same road to the Kingdom of God? Are we not to carry our cross daily? Isn't it easier to carry it with a small group of like-mind Christians?
---Steveng on 7/22/08

Psalm-62:9. Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie, to be laid in the balance. They are all together lighter than vanity.

I am as a wonder unto many - - Psalm-75:5

---mendy on 7/22/08

Mimi - does that stand for Mimi mounds?

The great deception has been taking place since the Garden of Eden. It tripped up Adam and Eve, but we shouldn't be so deceived.

We have the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ has given us His word and it leads us into all truth.

If we keep our eyes on Jesus and His word, (I don't believe in this 'must be using the Hebrew spelling' mumbo jumbo nonsense), His sheep know His voice. If you can't hear His voice now, how in the world will you hear it when greater deceptions of all kinds come at you?

We may not see the greatest deception in our lifetime, but deceptions surround us all the day long.
---zerph on 7/22/08

Following after Satan is the great deception. He is he father of lies and there are many lies which pull us away from the Gospel of Jesus. Satan is also the angel of light so that he mimics spiritual truths which actually take us away from the simplicity of our salvation and condemn those who buy into the whirlwind of this worlds gospel.
---jody on 7/22/08

steveng: Exhort one another daily does NOT mean what you are saying. Nowhere does it say that believers must gather daily, nor on any specific day. By insisting that people must do this (which is impossible for many people with families and jobs), you are creating a new type of Old Testament law-like bondage and robbing people of the simplicity that is in Christ. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. Read Acts 15
---ServingHim on 7/22/08

Steveng: "pray to each other?" That almost has a new-age sound to it.
---ServingHim on 7/22/08


"Regarding Sat. vs. Sun."

It is written that Christians are to meet daily (Hebrews 3:13) because living is 27/7 and sinning is a daily fight. If you are truly and sincerely interested in maturing in Christ, meeting just once a week will not do especially in today's world. Research the benefits of home "churches." Also search in an online bible for the phrases "one another" and "each other." could you spur one another on toward love and good deeds in a weekly church? Do you carry each other's burdens, encourage one another, build up each other, confess your sins to each other, pray to each other? In a denominational church this is hard to do.
---Steveng on 7/21/08

Tim: The name of my "home" church? The one true church, the body of Jesus Christ, that heavenly city, New Jerusalem, the building made without hands.

Regarding Sat. vs. Sun.:

The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath...

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days...

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord, and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
---ServingHim on 7/21/08

What's the big deal about Saturday vs. Sunday? Aren't days a creation of man to mark one rotation of the earth on it's axis? Aren't weeks/months/years methods of organizing days in to meaningful time periods. What does it matter to God what day is called the Sabbath?
---tim on 7/20/08

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the Watchman: I can't believe "the secret" is even being considered by your pastor. this is the beginning of the great deception. i don't know what kind of church you attend but you need to pray for the Holy Spirit to give discernment of false teachings to your church. you may even have a talk with other members and even the pastor. And then separate yourself from those teachings if they continue. In the end their will be many deceptions. i can't believe you are witnessing it right in your church. Pray and ask for wisdom from God. God be with you as you make your decisions.
---melissa on 7/20/08

Tim: The One True Church are the Christians (people) who do not follow the way of denominations each having their own traditions, ways of living, and Bibleinterpretations. When Jesus said He will build His church, He didn't mean a building. It is more like a member belonging to a network marketing company saying that she will build her downline - meaning that she will bring other people into the organization. Satan has successfully used denominations to divide Christians who bicker among each other to say "my church is better than your church." Jesus is the only way, the only truth and the only life not any man-made denomination - the RRC, the Lutherans, the Baptists, the Methodists, the Buddhists, the Hindus, the Wiccas, etc.
---Steveng on 7/20/08

Mima, 2 Cor. 4:4, Satan here is aggressively keeping the unsaved from understanding the gospel. Paul explained to the Corinthians, "The god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" Not content with blinding the unsaved so that they cannot understand the gospel, he also has another strategy, "Then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved" Luke 8:12. Satan's strategy is simple, if he can prevent men from hearing the gospel and understanding what Christ offers them, then men will be content to go their own way, away from Christ.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/08


I'm curious, What is the name of your home church. It's my belief that there is no such thing as a "non-denomonational" church.
---Tim on 7/20/08

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When the Lord said: many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ and shall deceive many, he was saying: many shall come in HIS name (Jesus' name), saying HE is Christ and shall decieve many.

ALL modern organized "churches" are synagogues of Satan.
---ServingHim on 7/19/08

Hi Catherine, God DOES love everyone, and yes, God IS LOVE--says so in the Bible, I think 1st John if I'm correct. But yeah you're right--not everyone is going to Heaven but He loves us all. And personally, I think a lot of the earthquakes and disasters are simply the result of a planet that's had a lot of abuse over the years and is subject to scary weather patterns.
---Mary on 7/19/08

I am going to put eactly what God is giving me on here: Deceptions>> that God loves everyone, and everyone is going to heaven. That God is love: He wouldn't be bringing these storms and earthquakes. That's it!
---catherine on 7/18/08

it is coming at us right in our own churches. my pastor is teaching his flock that there is nothing wrong with the book the secret. we can even use its teachings to get great wealth. after all god wants all of his childern to be rich.
---the_watchman on 7/18/08

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frances008: "Aaron Russo is the name, google him if you want to know. And the chip is in Revelation 13 and 14. Read it if you want to know."

Frances, why do you put fear and anxiety in the hearts of your fellow man. Spreading your conspiracies, gossip, and lies do just that. You're bringing people into Satan's web of fear by doing so.

Christians: Do not fear Frances. Turn you back to this person. If you are right with God, He will warn you before anything happens. Pray that He will reveal the so-called "chip" before it happens. Remember what Jesus said about bringing your burdens to him.
---Steveng on 7/17/08

Aaron Russo is the name, google him if you want to know. And the chip is in Revelation 13 and 14. Read it if you want to know.
---frances008 on 7/14/08

The Great Deception is today's church.

There's a huge difference between Jesus' church and man-made denominational churches. Satan is the creator of the denominational churches. The churches have their own traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the Bible. Christians agrue among themselves about whose church is better. Satan causes this division among Christians.

When Jesus said he was to build his church, He didn't mean a building or a denomination, but rather like a member of a network marketing company building her downline. Jesus is looking to increase the population of the Kingdom of God not to increase the population of a denomination.
---Steveng on 7/14/08

I believe the biggest deception is the Sovereignty of God doctrine. Pitiful.
---melanie on 7/14/08

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This life is not all it's cracked up to be. If you regard this world to have the treasures of God, then His kingdom is not in your heart, but if you are saddened ("poor in spirit", Matthew 5:3) by all the backstabbing betrayal, schemes/cheating, wars, etc. of this world, then the present kingdom of God is within you.

A very wise man once wrote (Ecclesiastes 2:17)...
"So I hated life,..."

John 12:25...
"He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life".
---more_excellent_way on 7/13/08

I think that the GREAT DECEPTION is when someone believes that they have nothing to worry about, they think they believe in Jesus and that's all they have to do (and be a good person). They are deceived into thinking that they are living "good" and because of that, they will go to heaven. That is far from the truth. That's my opinion.
---Betty5357 on 7/12/08

To be a happy person and enjoy all the good things of life is not a bad quest, but inevitably a Chrstian will be attacked by the devil. Persecutions will come. It is not fair to invite people to Christianity offering them only happiness, because it is through much persecution that we will enter Heaven. Acts 14.22. (I think).
---frances008 on 6/21/08

The GREAT DECEPTION involves many different things.

The greatest deception which is happening in the world today are SEVANTS OF SATAN, who are masquerading as people of GOD, 2 Corinthian 11:13-15.

These people hve deceive other into chasing after the TEMPORAL and MATERIAL things of this world, 1 Timothy 6:3-10
---Rob on 6/21/08

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Another great deception in the Church is that Christians don't suffer. Actually the Spirit of the Life of Christ in you is the Spirit of the Suffering Church here on earth NOW....not the great tribulation where that suffering comes from God WRATH towards sinners.

This is OUR appointed this day we enter into the fellowship of His sufferings. Many may want to check to see if they are really in the faith.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/08

---Mark_V. I. agree with your statement about self righteousness. I witnessed to between 10 and 20 people a day and of late I have noticed that many of the lost or more brazen than ever before. I have recently haD 5 people(in the last two days)tell me plainly "I AM LOST" and some of them still refused to hear A message of how they can be saved!!
---Mime on 6/20/08

Mark V, this is so true. Those who believe they have to wait until resurrection day to receive the Spirit, must be trying to save themselves in their own strength now.

Thanks for more clarification!
---kathr4453 on 6/20/08

Mima, the great deception is, "People think or believe, they can save themselves, and be righteous before Christ, in order to be born again." Jesus came to save sinners, not righteous people. The lost are "self-righteous" separated from God spiritually, and dead to sin. God is not included in anything they do. It is until we are born again that we become righeous in the eyes of God because the righeousness of Christ is imputed to each person born of the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/08

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Frances ... "2,000 years ago John wrote about the microchip that is going to be forced upon us by the Illuminati"

John wrote about the CHIP?

Can you give us the Bible reference which says anything remotely resembling a chip?

And who is Aaron Rosso?

Just questions, Frances
---alan_of_UK on 6/20/08

The Bible could not be clearer. In fact it is one part of the proof to me that the Bible is true, when 2,000 years ago John wrote about the microchip that is going to be forced upon us by the Illuminati. Please watch Aaron Russo being interviewed on youtube. He said that the whole aim of the Illuminati (Satanists) is to get the human race all microchipped. Of course it will be a much reduced number due to WW3, earthquakes, viruses, economic collapse and whatever else they can think of.
---frances008 on 6/19/08

2 Corinthians 2: 17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new.

Doesn't use future tense here, but PRESENT tense. WE ARE TODAY a New Creation/Creature in Christ...we are TODAY Born again...born of the Spirit of the Life of Christ in you TODAY.

If He's not in you TODAY, can you be sure you will be resurrected? Jesus said I AM the Resurrection

---kathr4453 on 6/19/08

KATHR4453: I am going to let you enjoy your beliefs. I too blieve in becoming a new creature but I believe that this will take place when Jesus calls me up at the first resurection. Hope to see you there! PR
---Pierr5358 on 6/19/08

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Pierre, You are TOOOOO funny. Pierre, Christians , Born Again Christians , whether Jew of Gentile are a New Creation in Christ Jesus. How on earth could you say I'm blind ???? Are you????Do you not know these things?

Pierre, YOU're wrapped up in Religion....Christianity is not a Religion but a Person..Jesus Christ. It's all right there in the NEW TESTAMENT.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/08

KATHR4453:Yout last two entries, about an Old Creation and a New Creationand and how you relate to one but not the other left me confused.
I am convinced that you are a strong Jew, totally immersed in Judaism, totally un-
willig to admit that as "a people" you failed God.
Can you not see that you are blinded? that your heart needs to be circumsized?
I hope you will come to your senses before it is too late. PR.
---Pierr5358 on 6/19/08

Pierre, thank you for your suggestion, but I read the Bible, not books, and the best seminars I've ever had are right in my own home, with the Lord. All else is idolatry to me.

Thou shall have no other gods before me.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/08

The mark of the Beast is a mark satan has on those of the Old created on the 6th Day. In The New Creation However those In Christ...WE ended our History in the First Adam at Calvary, becoming a New Creation in HIM.

On the 7th day, Jesus was still in the Tomb, so to honor this day TODAY is strange. We worship a RISEN Savior.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/08

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KATHR4453: Let me add to my answers to your quesions concerning Paul that my answers given in the other blog STAND.
Let me just add regarding the receiving of the Mark of the Beast that it is still a future decision which will be made under duress. Just because a person goes to church on SUNDAY now, does not means he/she has opted to receive the mark. When the tim comes to chose, ou will know it!

Finally I would urge you to read Steve Wahlberg's book or attend one of his seminars. PR.
---Pierr5358 on 6/19/08

Leviticus 23:38-40
38Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
39Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.
40And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook, and ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/08

****Some obeyed Him and had enough to eat, some thought it did not matter and their Manna became rotten.*****

In comparing to the verse I sent just prior to this:

Yes, Jesus said, I was that bread in the Wilderness. That manna was visible, however the Hidden Manna is Christ Himself, Christ IN YOU . Only then can you eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, and those are the ones He will raise up on the Last Day.. John 6. No Rotten Manna Here, and we eat of this Manna 24/7/365.

When the Children of Israel entered the New Promise Land, the manna ceased..and they ate the Fruit of the Land. Symbolic of Christ Himself.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/08

So Frances, are you too promoting the Mark as those who worship on Sunday?

SO is PAUL a Liar? Satan? Deceiver? Do you all even have the Epistles in YOUR Bible?

Romans 14:4-6

4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord, and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks, and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/08

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Oierrrr, You said: ***The Sabbat is a mark/an ID between Jesus the Creator and us His creations.***

Well actually the MARK betwen Jesus and His creation is seen with Abraham....Circumcision on the 8 the day.

The 8th Day represents the Day WE identified in teh death and resurrection of Jesus Christ by teh putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh, by the Circumcision of Jesus Christ, you read about in Colossians 2. That's what makes us Complete in Him , worshiping in the Spirit and having no confidence in the Flesh. The TRUE Circumcision!!!!

You see it's important to be Complete in Christ Jesus, and we are told here in Colossians we are Complete "In Him".

As I am a Completed Jew (complete in Christ) I celebrate the 8th day...the first day AFTER the 7th, as the NEW Creation.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/08

KATHR4453: Thanks for the questions concerning the importance of Sabbath obervance.
It was always more than just picking a DAY to observe.
It had to do with recognizing Jesus as Creator of the Sabbath which he stll wants us to keep holy. The Sabbat is a mark/an ID between Jesus the Creator and us His creations.
It has to do with trusting Him to tell the truth. He told His people not to gather
Manna on the Sabbath but to gather a doube portion on Friday. Some obeyed Him and had enough to eat, some thought it did not matter and their Manna became rotten.
It is a matter of choosing which Master we
will obey, the Lord of the Sabbath or the promoter of the 1st Day of the week.
Conclusion: My birthday is June 2nd. If all of a sudden I were forced to observe my birthday on Nov 28, I would be upset and you would probably undestand.So it is with God!
---Oierrr5358 on 6/19/08

2.000 years ago or so, this deception was a future event. I believe it was very shortly fulfilled when the Catholic Church set up house in Rome. That was the first stage of an alliance between the Church and Politics. From then on we had wars etc. Always behind the wars was the Catholic Church. Always. And communism. You need to research this.
---frances008 on 6/18/08

Kathr, the Beast is when the religious and political systems combine together with one guy at the top. Watch the videos, look at the photos, all the leaders bowing to the Pope. Who do you think the boss is? Bush? Lol. He will be out of office soon. The boss is not even the White Pope. The boss is the head of the Jesuit Order. He tells the White Pope what to do and say. He is the shadow of the Pope. Wherever the Pope is, the invisible hand of the Jesuits is pulling his strings.
---frances008 on 6/18/08

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I consider that the great deception is *unforgiveness*. Unforgiveness can be in the form of hierarchical institutionalized religion witch ties up "forgiveness" in the hands of only certain people, so the regular members are not actively forgiving like Jesus commands > "'And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.'" (Mark 11:25) And we have the unforgiveness of saying gay is OK so they don't seek forgiveness. Plus, how divorce so involves unforgiveness. And more. It makes a big mess, degrades us so we are not in God's love.
---Bill_bila5659 on 6/18/08

*****The Pope did not change Saturday to Sunday.*****

Nicole, you are absolutely correct. Saturday will always be Saturday, Sunday will always be Sunday, Monday will always......etc, and so on.

But you too make an interesting point. The Jw's worship on Saturday too, and Mormons. SOOOOOOO, Pierre, how do they fit in with Sunday being the mark of the Beast, that only the Sunday People will have this mark. Just being a Sabbath observer no matter what is all God is interested in? That assures your ticket to your Resurrection Day?

I'm wondering here, Why Did Jesus Die on a Cross? So we could obey a DAY? So you say, God is more interested in sanctifying a Day then He is our entire life?
---kathr4453 on 6/18/08

The religion is also a city (Vatican City), on 7 hills (Rome has 7 hills or mounds), commits fornication with all the leaders of the world making some people very rich (Red Mass, political power, wars), and is responsible for all the death and destruction in the world. This is the Catholic Church. Known as a woman and mother of all harlots (all apostasizing churches and denominations are started by her). The second beast is the Jesuits, the beast is the RCC system, and the Antichrist is the Papacy.
---frances008 on 6/18/08

Nicole, you cannot break all the commandments going and then say 'New wine, new wineskin'. At least, you can have a go and see who is taken in by it. Remember that many of the elect will be deceived (Mark 13, Matthew 24) remember that the lies will be believed (2 Thess 2) remember that the main strategy used in this warfare is deception. Remember that Peter (your first pope) was called 'Satan' by Jesus even in your favourite gospel Matthew, straight after you say he was given the keys of the kingdom which you say refers to forgiveness of sins, when God says only He can ultimately forgive us and cleanse us of sin (through faith in Jesus Christ).
---frances008 on 6/18/08

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Nicole, my reply was to Pierre's reply. I can understand how you may have read this.

I believe we ENTER INTO the Sabbath rest, Hebrews 4, which is not the same as KEEPING Sabbath law attached to Saturday, as some believe. Their intrepretation is from my understanding the early Popes changed Saturday to Sunday, therefore accusing this change as those who worship anti-christ, because he will change the times and seasons.

However the times and seasons have nothing to do with a day, and times and seasons are plural, not singular.

The times and seasons have to do with end time events, and the order of these events. So changing a day of worship will not make any difference.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/08

"..Pope changing Saturday to Sunday. So then,if the POPE changed this?..This is where I don't believe it is the Pope.--kathr4453
The Pope did not change Saturday to Sunday. Jewish people still rest on Friday nite to Saturday .
The Pope made Sunday the day Jesus rose on to worship.New wine in Old Skin? No. New wine in New skin. If Jesus rose on Tuesday,the Pope would have made Tuesday the official day. The RCC has worship Service everyday. Not just Sunday and Wednesday. The Priest must say the Mass everyday.

" the Levitical Priesthood,-a picture-Catholic Church,Pope who claims to be the High Priest of the church...correct? Yet,look what is missing..THE BLUE!!Blue represents Heavenly.-kathr4453 ?

Jesus is the High Priest. FYI, the Catholic Priests and the Pope have White and Blue color Vestments. U wouldn't know this because U are not Catholic.
---Nicole on 6/18/08

To my understanding, we worship on Sunday because Christ was raised on a Sunday. Was this enacted by the Pope or does someone not know what they are talking about in here?
---sean on 6/18/08

We must all watch what we say and even more pay closer attention to what we believe in here. I urge everyone to do research before you go believing some of the things we say in here and then repeating it to others and thus sounding foolish. I won't say who said this, but someone has been saying that encoded in the name of the Pope is the number 666. This I found to be false. On the mitre the Pope wears is scripted Vicarius Filii Dei which if you take the letters within that phrase that equal number value in Roman numerals which are the V,I,C and L they equal 661. It is said that the letter U is equivalent to the V which would then make it 666, but I havent found this yet. Vicarius Filii Dei says, "Vicar of the Son of God" which in itself is a wrong statement. Christ does not need a "fill in" and that's a Vicar. Christ is the only intercessor and forgiver of my sins.
---sean on 6/18/08

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Thank You Frances, Yes, that is the verse they refer to about the Pope changing Saturday to Sunday. So then, if the POPE changed this???, will he then change back to Saturday, keeping Sabbath Laws, new moons, sacrificing animals etc???? This is where I don't believe it is the Pope.

---kathr4453 on 6/18/08

Francess, Look a the Woman who rides the Beast...Mystery Babylon. Look at the clothing of the woman. Exactly like the Levitical Priesthood, yet a mockery! This is a picture of the Catholic Church and Pope who claims to be the High Priest of the church...correct? Yet, look what is missing....THE BLUE!!!! Blue represents Heavenly.

---kathr4453 on 6/18/08

Frances, The Woman RIDES the beast...or in other words rides on the back of the political powers of the false prophet, and beast.....and will be as well overthrown by the Beast once he's used her for His purposes. Yet, Mystery Babylon represents ALL apostate professing Christians...who are now saying...lets ALL get along...the Emergent etc, etc. So yes, Mystery Babylon, the false prophet will all have their part in promoting anti-christ....but the apostate church itself is not anti-christ or the beast.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/08

Frances, final here,
Mystery Babylon is as was Babylon....a picture or type of a one world government/church,(tower of Babel) etc, but no where does scripture say Mystery Babylon, the Woman who RIDES the beast, is the Beast itself.

The Bible says Come out of HER my people .....yet the beast or anti-Christ is not a her.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/08

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Kathr, the Daniel reference that shows that the Antichrist is the Catholic Church is Daniel 7 verse 25 And he shall speak (against God) ....and think to change the times and laws......
---frances008 on 6/18/08

Daniel speaks of the AC that will come and by peace shall destroy many:

Dan.9:27 The AC will make an agreement w/Israel for (1 week=7yrs) & halfway thru it(The abomination of desolation:Stands in the Temple & Claims to be GOD).
This is when i believe something happens to him(AC) deadly wound thats healed, Because this is when the F.P. makes an image of the beast whos wound was healed, and it is given life and speaks as a Man,
then they cause ALL to take his Mark.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 6/17/08

Thank you, Kathr. I will check this all out. I have learnt not to take peoples' words as the last and final proof. We should always go to the Bible.
---frances008 on 6/17/08

Frances, I agree, because Israel will make a Covenant with antichrist called a Covenant of Hell ( by God) because they will put their faith in him, and not God. After 3 1/2 years of (false) peace he will turn on them.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/08

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Frances, #2
Here is that verse:

Isaiah 28:18
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand, when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. The time of Jacob's trouble. Read Isaiah 30 and 31 regarding putting your faith in anyone other then God. Yet, will He save them still!

A DELIVER will come out of SION (Heaven...the 2nd Coming)...and All Israel will be saved....Romans 11
---kathr4453 on 6/17/08

Some use Daniel 2:21 as a basis for those who follow antichrist as the one who changed the times and the seasons. RE: Saturday to Sunday. Those scriptures aren't talking about anti-christ, but God

Daniel 2:20-21
20Daniel answered, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he (God) changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
---kathr4453 on 6/17/08

Kathr, I agree that the sign of the Antichrist is that he will want to destroy Israel, but he may well do this by purporting to support them in the way that Chaim Weizmann, the Zionist Leader said that to create Israel, a few million Jews might have to die. So we had WW2 in which he made a ton of money on bombs and other lethal weapons. The deception may be 'Who are our friends?' if we call ourselves Christians.
---frances008 on 6/17/08

I believe the great deception is that the church replaced the promises to Israel or Replacement/Dominion/ Reconstruction Theology. With it, the end times have an new and different twist leading many to worship anti-christ, who's main objective is to destroy Israel....
---kathr4453 on 6/17/08

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Part 1..God doesn't want any of us in hell. God sent His son that we may believe and have eternal life. So why would God let someone that is not born again perish? I fell lucky to have ever even had the chance to realize my sin and have had the oppurtunity to turn from it.God chose me and I didn't turn Him down.
---sean on 6/17/08

Part 2..we will take the sinners, the not born again, that are of the world, the ones who have heard and know of sin. They have been chosen but are not acting on it. The truth is acting on them but they are denying over and over, they keep rejecting God. I will take when God flooded the earth, God was sorry He had ever made mankind, they definetely knew the truth considering it was passed down from their descendants who were Adam and Eve whom absolutely knew what the truth was.
---sean on 6/17/08

Part 3... So God wiped them out because they would not come to their senses but continually believed and acted on lies. God probably chose them over and over again to be refused every time. God had enough. So like in 2Thes 2, I believe God is saying "you want it that way then ,here you go, have it that way. I think this also called a reprobate mind
---sean on 6/17/08

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