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Was Peter Saved Early

When Peter denied Christ three times was he saved? Please remember Peter had already announced Christ as the Son of the living God. In other words, he had already confessed Christ. What do you think saved or lost at that time?

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 ---Mima on 4/15/08
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ven:

According to Calvinism, God didn't make "us" alive. He only made "some of us" alive.
Per Calvinsm, John 3:16 would read:
"For God so loved a small fraction of the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever God chose to believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

But that's not what it says. It says he loved "the world", not "a small part of the world". It says "whosoever", without qualifications.
---StrongAxe on 8/18/20


Remember the awful drought in Africa in the mid 80's? Well, this was the sermon that opened my eyes and left me in shock. The peacher said we are not to worry about these folks, that this was Gods punishment on them because they were not the elect, and that they deserved to die because thousands of years ago they rejected God.

Years later i also see the duplicity of this message because the NON elect according to calvinism can't reject God...because according to them its God who rejected them.

BUT i couldn't help but to ask the pastor at the door, YOUR ancestors being a Gentile thousands of years ago also rejected God. So why are you so special to this exception? Because your white or because you now live in America?
---kathr4453 on 8/18/20


Axe, you make it sound pretty bad, and guess what? It is pretty bad for those not chosen. God could save everyone, if He so wanted, or He could save none. When God created the lost not chosen, He created them with a sin nature. They still had not sinned. As they grew up they begin to sin and did not know God. Eph. 2 tells us that we were walking to the prince and power of the air (Satan) and were by nature children of wrath.
But God made us alive when we were dead in sin. So by grace we were saved, not of works lest anyone boast. Salvation is all of God.
---ven. on 8/18/20


ven:

Yes BUT only if we choose those actions ourselves. If our choices made for us, if we are robots acting out a pre-determined script, we aren't the ones choosing to do them.

Yes. It was His plan.

So, it was God's plan from the very beginning that he would create billions of people fated to burn in hell for eternity with no ability to be saved.

I saw a meme:
"A Calvinist Children's Song:
Jesus loves the few elected
All the elected of the world
To hell he sends the rest
And we say it's for the best
He loves only the elected, not the world"
---StrongAxe on 8/17/20


Yes. He was saved. But he was choosing to do wrong. When we accept Jesus we have to die daily to self.

Our eyes must be on Jesus. Jesus died so that every human could choose to be saved. Those who reject him will be lost because they choose to be lost.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/20




Axe, you now say: "
ven:If sins are not a result of your own choices, but God's from the foundation of the world, then God is literally choosing to send you to hell."
sins are the result of our own actions. People are going to hell because they love to sin against God.

"Our bondage to sin is a result of God's own choice. He knew from the foundation of the world that Jesus would die to atone for sin, so he knew all humans would be born with a sin nature, yet he chose to create everything that led up to that sin (e.g. the Tree in the Garden) anyway. Yes. It was His plan.
---ven. on 8/17/20


Kath, you say"
Now that you are free from sin ven do you now have free will?

No, I do not have free will. Rom. 6:22 "But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God...." You say, Or if now you have been set free from sin, are you sinless and will be sinless never to sin again?" NO, I am not sinless. No one is. You stated Adam and Eve had free will before sinning? Yes, there was no sin nature yet.
---ven. on 8/17/20


Now that you are free from sin ven do you now have free will? Or if now you have been set free from sin, are you sinless and will be sinless never to sin again? You stated Adam and Eve had free will before sinning? So ven claims his free will or no free will now that he's set free from sin ensures his sinless perfection. Because God certainly wouldn't set you free from sin just to give you freedom to sin again....SO, are you still in bondage or free to sin again? Putting you back into bondage? OR ARE YOU IN A STATE OF SINLESS BONDAGE?
---kathr4453 on 8/15/20


ven:

If sins are not a result of your own choices, but God's from the foundation of the world, then God is literally choosing to send you to hell.

Our bondage to sin is a result of God's own choice. He knew from the foundation of the world that Jesus would die to atone for sin, so he knew all humans would be born with a sin nature, yet he chose to create everything that led up to that sin (e.g. the Tree in the Garden) anyway.

I.e. God chose to create a world that included many billions of people pre-destined to be tortured in hell for eternity.

Your rigidly deterministic view of predestination vs. free will makes the above necessary. If you don't like that conclusion, perhaps your assumptions need re-examination.
---StrongAxe on 8/15/20


Hi Nicole, nice to see you. As to your answer, God did not sent people to hell, they go to hell because of their sins. God does not make them sin. They sin because they are in bondage to sin. They were born with a sin nature.
we were also born with a sin nature, but God, through the Holy Spirit, set us free. It was not by anything we did, for salvation is of the Lord. Salvation is by grace, it is a Divine act.
---ven. on 8/15/20




I believe we all agree, God is wise. One thing which goes hand in hand with wisdom, I believe,....is Logic. Does anyone here agree with this...or is wisdom an illogical conundrum?
---David on 8/15/20


Ven, I believe I understand what you are saying. Jesus came to Save Israel. But He also saved many Gentiles. Only those who find out and start to pray to Jesus have the choice to follow Him or not. God gives free will.

God doesn't force anyone into hell. One refuses God's Mercy and sends himself to hell.
---Nicole_Lacey on 8/14/20


So back to John 3:13-16 Jesus clearly shows those who were bitten by snakes in the wilderness BECAUSE OF THEIR SIN , had the free will and power within them to LOOK UP. And they were told if they looked upon the serpent they would be healed. So we see depraved sinners in rebellion GIVEN A CHOICE to save themselves if they BY FAITH looked up. Jesus clearly states sinners in this same state can LOOK UP and believe in Jesus Christ BY FAITH being healed from sin, and be given eternal life.

One should read Numbers 21 and see how depraved they were that they had no clue.....I'm being sarcastic of coarse.

Ven, so absorbed in his brainwashed doctrine cannot REASON WITH THE REASONABLE SCRIPTURE.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/20


"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise (for believers)as some count slackness, but is long suffering toward us (believers) not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9.
---ven. on 8/14/20
Notice how false teachers have to ADD to scripture to make it say what God never said . If that's what God meant then GOD, NOT VEN would have said it the way ven has. He didn't.
Beware of anyone who adds or takes away from GOD'S WORD. No one need to correct GOD or speak over Him.
---kath4453 on 8/14/20


Jesus chose His 12 Disciples out of Elect Israel. Jesus makes this statement several times in John. He said except one will betray me...which was Judas. So if this meant all men through out all of history we know more than one has betrayed Jesus. He said it in John 6 and again in John 17......YET IN VERSE 17:20 we see a definite break from His Apostles/ Disciples when Jesus prayed.....AND THOSE WHO BELIEVE ON ME THROUGH THEIR WORD . The THEIR here is Jesus CHOSEN HAND PICKED OUT OF ELECT ISRAEL. If Jesus were teaching Calvinism, a Gentile would be in that pick.

Remember Gentiles as Ephesians says were without God in the world and not part of Gods Covenant with Israel. RIGHTLY DIVIDE FOLKS.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/20


Funny how ven quotes 1 Cor1:18...the message of the cross....So now you like Pauls verses re the cross. In no way is this verse teaching Calvinism.

What Paul is teaching...that you do not teach, is what has been taught from the beginning....FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TO DIED ON A CROSS FOR OUR SIN, THAT WHOSOEVER believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life . And just as the serpent was lifted up in the wilderness, so must we lift up Christ. Lifting up the serpent in the wilderness showed FREE WILL. They were not saved as you so clearly stated no one was saved before Jesus died and rose again. They couldn't possibly be able to look up..depraved sinners as they were....right?
---kath4453 on 8/14/20


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Axe, I don't know how much you understand concerning my explanation, but here goes again for the third time.
All human beings being born, including those chosen by God, are born in sin, with a sin nature, separated from God. Why did God set it up that way, I don't know.
So we have to preach the gospel so that those who God chose before the foundation of the world can believe the gospel and make a commitment to Christ. We do not know who these people are.
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise (for believers)as some count slackness, but is long suffering toward us (believers) not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9.
---ven. on 8/14/20


John 15:16 - You did not choose Me, But I chose you and appointed you that you should bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the father in my name,He may give you,
---RichardC on 8/13/20


ven:

You still haven't explained WHY the gospel needs to be preached, if our salvation is pre-determined before we are even born. The saved will be saved, regardless of anything they choose to do in their life (including listening to the gospel), and the damned will be damned, regardless of anything they choose to do in their lif (including listening to the gospel). Since their fate HAS ALREADY BEEN PREDETERMINED, listening to the gospel will have NO BEARING on whether they are saved or not, so why bother?

This is where fatalistic determinism leads.

So God planned, from the beginning, to create billions of people destined to be tortured in hell for eternity, with zero chance of avoiding this fate? Is this Good? Is this love?
---StrongAxe on 8/13/20


It must be stressed AGAIN Jesus said " He'll was not made for man but for the Angels" This again also shows no one was chosen to be saved or lost before the foundation of the world. Hell was created before the foundation of the world . If we Infact did exist and some chosen for life and the rest created for hell, then JESUS HIMSELF would have made no such statement. He would have said HELL WAS MADE FOR THE FALLEN ANGELS AND THE UNFORTUNATE UNELECT MAN.

Also wouldn't scripture also say our names were written in the lambs book of life FROM BEFORE the foundation of the world...NOPE. It says FROM the foundation of the world. EVERY WORD MATTERS. Pay attention to detail folks.
---kath453 on 8/13/20


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Genesis 24:8And if the woman will not be willing to follow thee, then thou shalt be clear from this my oath: only bring not my son thither again.

This is a type and shaddow of Christ and the Church. Isaac finds a bride. 1 Thesselonians 4:13-17.

We also see FREE WILL absolutely here. And full reading of Genesis shows the choice was given to Rebecca. Her father did not force her or demand her to accept.

We also see in the Gospels to preach the Gospel to all nations, but if any reject, to shake the sand from your feet and move on.

Today God is forming the CHURCH, the BOC out of both Jew and Gentile, making IN HIM ONE NEW MAN. This NEW MAN is predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 8/13/20


Axe, everyone physically born is born in sin. Everyone. Those who have being chosen by God, who are being born, need to hear the gospel truth in order to believe. And since we are not God, and since we do not know who they are, we are called to preach the gospel.
The one's not chosen by God will never believe even if they hear the word of truth. "For the message of the cross is foolishness those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Cor. 1:18.
Those not chosen are heading to hell for the sins they have committed against God. They are not innocent.
God never planned to save everybody, that He saved some is the miracle, because He could have saved none.
---ven. on 8/13/20


ven:

Then what is the point of preaching? If everyone who is going to be saved was already predestined to be saved, no matter what happened, they will be saved whether we preach or not.

If everyone who is going to be damned was already predestined to be damned, no matter what happens, they will be damned whether we preach or not.

Why does God keep EXHORTING us to do things, if whether we do them is already pre-destined, and we're just robots acting out a fixed script? Exhortation implies that we have a choice to obey or disobey.
---StrongAxe on 8/13/20


Samuel, the Mystery of the Church is that we are one new man, no longer Jew or gentile. The new man, is not a continuation of Israel. God is going to deal with the NATION of Israel one day, but the Church is not a NATION, the Church is the Body of Christ. Jesus is not a Nation.

Yes, salvation is always the same...faith in Jesus. However when you see in Ephesians that we are "adopted" SONS OF GOD, that has to do with our POSITION. Paul is teaching the Church has a higher calling .

Just as all the tribes of Israel were important, some tribes had a different position. Out of JUDAH ALONE came Kings. Out of Levi alone came Priests.

God has a special plan and position for THE CHURCH.
---kathr4453 on 8/13/20


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What ven now needs to ask is ... CHOSE FOR WHAT? We see in the OT Israel was also CHOSEN for a purpose in God's plans. If you say Israel was chosen to be saved, then why weren't they all saved? So one needs to drill down even further on what these words mean. Timothy was chosen to be a good soldier. Paul was chosen to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles. Isaac was chosen over Ishmael and Jacob chosen over Esau. But no where does it say chosen for salvation .
---kath4453 on 8/13/20


Ven your doctrine is that GOD designed people to torture them for all eternity. That he does not love.

Kath indeed the church is GOD'S people today. But we are the continuation of Israel. WE as Christians belong to GOD. Jesus brought salvation to all people. The Jews are saved by their belief in the coming Messiah. WE are saved by Jesus as our High Priest now. Read Hebrews.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/12/20


The ELECT TODAY is THE CHURCH, just as ISRAEL as a whole is Gods Elect. The Church belongs to Jesus, and Israel the Nation belong to God. And just as many could join Israel, anyone today can JOIN THE CHURCH, by placing your faith in Jesus Christ. Then you too are members of the ELECT CHURCH that was predestined before the foundation of the world TO BE CONFORMED TO THE INAGE OF JESUS CHRIST. Elect Israel will not be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. Only the Church is.

Please read ALL OF EPHESIANS, not just your pet one verse wonder.
---kathr4453 on 8/12/20


"Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace,, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved." Ephesians 1:4-6.
It says, we, the elect, were chosen. All of the elect, from the Old T. and those from the New T. They are the "Beloved." Paul speaking to the saints who are in Ephesus.
The doctrine of Election is emphasized throughout Scripture (Deut. 77:6, Isa. 45:4: John 6:44: AActs 13:48: Romans 8:29: 9:11: 1 Thess. 1:3,4: 2 Thess. 2:13: 2 Tim. 2:10.
---ven. on 8/12/20


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John 10:28 Jesus is talking about His Disciples, the 12 God gave Him out of Israel, those already Gods CHOSEN ELECT PEOPLE.

Jesus also states in John 6 all but one, who was Judas who betrayed Jesus so that the scriptures were fulfilled, again talking exclusively there about His Apostles/ disciples...the 12 exclusively out of Israel.

So we see Peter was absolutely saved, seeing he was not the one ...Judas ....who betrayed Jesus

But this has nothing to do with any Gentiles . If God were making a Calvinistic point, one or several of the 12 would be Gentiles.

However OSAS is based on faith in Jesus Christ and Gods SOVEREIGN PROMISES to those who put their faith in Jesus Christ.
---kath4453 on 8/12/20


I see a problem here. Ven says anyone who disagrees with Calvinism is attacking him and not loving him. That's not how these blogs work ven, not even how Christianity works either. Trying to manipulate someone by accusing ....falsely I might add, is not love coming from the accuser.

I think possibly some coming on here think more highly of themselves than they ought.

Samuel simply stated he does not follow the teachings of the TULIP. No one here does. So that I guess makes all of us here not loving ven. No...we just don't love Calvinism. You are not Calvin. You need to grasp that fact. We can attack Calvinism the doctrine and STILL BE LOVING.
---kathr4453 on 8/11/20


Every true Christian has eternal security. That security comes from the power of God the Father, and God the Son.John 10:28-29. Jesus says "And I give them "eternal life" and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of His hand." No one can separate us from the Love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Samuel, if Love does not attack another brother, why do you attack me? Where is your love? I see how you threw Calvin in your response. If you have some passages to discuss from your religion or denomination go ahead. Please show some love.
---ven. on 8/11/20


And those today as well as those in the OT like Job testified is that we can know we ARE SAVED. Are saved is present tense. We have an Ernest deposit of the Holy Spirit being baptized into Christ...

Now we have assurance of our salvation too OSAS , unless Reformed or at least vens peculiar version of Reformed does not believe in one's eternal security. That would then exhibit a lack of faith.

Abraham absolutely knew he was saved from hell. Saved from ETERNAL death. I think because ven has a peculiar view of the cross to begin with may confuse him. It's really not complicated. And don't follow anyone who tries to make it complicated. No one can be Abraham's spiritual children if Abraham wasnt saved. That should be a no brainer.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/20


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Dear Ven there are two main views about Salvation.

You gave the TULIP one from Calvin. But I am more Wesleyan and Arminius.

I believe that Salvation is of the heart and leads to actions of the hands. Love works. It does not stand around attacking people. It works to help others and spread love.

Read Psalms 1
---Samuelbb7 on 8/10/20


The Bible uses the term salvation not only in the present salvation, past salvation, and future salvation.
Past: "there is a sense in which we were saved from the foundation of the world"
Present: "We are being saved by the work of God through history.
Future: "Comes the Ultimate salvation, and that is from the wrath to come on Judgment Day.
Another Biblical concept is that salvation is of the Lord. Salvation is never a human concept. Salvation is a divine work, it is accomplish and applied by God. Salvation is both of the Lord and from the Lord.
---ven. on 8/10/20


OT saints were saved BY FAITH IN THE COMING REDEEMER. Hebrews 11 gives a wonderful list of those saved. We see in LUKE those of faith went to a place called ABRAHAMS BOSOM, aka Paradise. The same place the man who died next to Jesus went...TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE.

OT looked forward to the cross, we look back. Their faith was accounted for righteousness just as ours. But today ours is COMPLETE IN HIM.

Now when Jesus rose from the dead, He led captivity captive and we see those OT Saints are now the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT are in heaven.

I guess ven has his own personal definition of salvation. YIKES. or else he's just spewing more FALSE DOCTRINE. sounds like Catholicism coming from him.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/20


Nobody, but nobody was saved before Christ died on the cross to pay for their sins. Old Testament saints were waiting for the coming Messiah.
---ven. on 8/9/20


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All OT even those of faith in the Gospel era were absolutely saved and went to a place called Abraham's bosom or Paradise UNTIL Jesus rose from the dead.

Jesus already foretold Peter he would deny Him. Never said anything about him losing his soul over it.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/20


We are not completely saved until we enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Here on earth we will always make stupid mistakes and then we regret it later. We need to be right with the Lord and always ready for His Second Coming.
---ven. on 8/8/20


NO. JESUSU had not died for the remission of sins.
---B._PREECH on 8/7/20


I believe Peter was saved with his profession of faith in Matt.16
---michael_e on 9/22/10


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No Peter was not saved yet. The Bible says that whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ is not His (Rom 8:9). None of the Disciple had the indwelling Spirit of Christ until He was resurrected. Remember after His resurrection He appeared to them and breathed on them and said "recieve ye the Holy Ghost." (John 20:22)

This was a different experience from the day of pentecost when they Holy Spirit fell on them in acts 2. They could not have been born again until after the death and resurrection of Jesus. That is not to say that they were eneimes of God but to say the time was not right until Jesus paid the price for their sin as well as ours. Blessings,
Erin James Sain
Awaken Ministries Ft. Myers Florida
---Erin_James on 9/22/10


Peter was saved later aft his denials.
Then he delivered The God given salvation plan Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v's 37 - 41 which Fulfills Matt.28 v's 19 - 20 to the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost.
---Lawrence on 7/22/10


1)
Hebrews 2:16: "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17: Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18: For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted."
---Nana on 5/30/08


2)
What does it means succour?
succour or US succor
Noun
help in time of difficulty
Verb
to give aid to (someone in time of difficulty) [Latin succurrere to hurry to help]
---Nana on 5/30/08


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3)
Jesus overcame sin as a man. He taught and led by example. Even washing of feet! And he said, John 8:29: "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone, for I do always those things that please him." Are we men and women? To whom say that we can't never amount to anything holy and pleasing to God,
Paul says:
---Nana on 5/30/08


4)
Romans 12:1: "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."
---Nana on 5/30/08


We as humans can never overcome sin, try as we may. Christ overcame sin for us. He died so we can live.
---duane on 5/29/08


Has everyone forgotten John 21:15-19?After Peter's denial of Christ,Jesus confirms Peter's love for Him and gives Him a command to feed His lambs,tend and feed His sheep. Peter's confession is answering Jesus'question.(Matt16:13-19)He asked who am I.Peter answered correctly and Jesus Blessed Him,with Keys to Heaven.The Denial was a sin,not damnation.DAN IS RIGHT. Duane,"sin has no power over you",meaning you can overcome and win.It doesn't mean we are back in the Garden of Eden.WE WERE KICK OUT!
---Nicole on 5/28/08


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Mima, I think he was still under the blood of the lamb. He made a mistake, and repented. I personally dont think his salvation was ever in jeopardy.

1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

Please note that he says "if" we sin...not "when" we sin. We should always be striving for perfection, as Christ is our example.
---Todd1 on 5/28/08


Dan,
Why do you think Christ came to earth? When you answer this you will know that sin can never have power over you.
---duane on 5/28/08


I wonder why people assume that once you become saved, all sin in their lives stop?
Do we automatically become perfect people and no longer are in need of forgiveness and salvation. NO! I don't know anyone who has become perfect after they were saved by God's grace. Of course we don't stop sinning. Thus all the more for us to thank God for his grace!

We do try to lead better lives, but good works do not justify our salvation. "Not by works are ye saved, but by grace!"
---dan on 5/28/08


Jesus had not given up on Peter. So therefore he did not lose his salvation. Praise God, He does not give up on His chosen people. Peter went on to become a bold witness for Jesus, when God sent back His holy spirit.>>>To live in each true believer.
---catherine on 4/18/08


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The Lord told him "when thou art converted, strengthen the brethren."
This happened prior to receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost whereby the Spirit of God gave him the strength to confess Christ even though it meant prison or death.
He was saved and like any other babe in Christ not having the true power of God and boldness given by the Holy Ghost.
If only all Christians would seek it with all their heart!
Frank
---Frank on 4/18/08


Shawn.M.T.,1
I do agree with, "There is a difference between Peter's
situation and Ananias's." Not so am I in agreement of
the Lord speaking of what Peter would do and about
the void return. The Lord did not set Peter to do that.
---Nana on 4/18/08


Shawn.M.T.,2
God spoke to Moses about the "people" forsaking him
at a future time, Deteronomy 31:16. On that account
Moses ordered the book of the law be placed "in the
side of the ark" for a witness against the "people". Yet
we know that there has always been men who did not
as such as was told. Men like Noah and Lot, who
make the basis of Isaiah's saying, Isaiah 1:9 and
Isaiah 64:5.
---Nana on 4/18/08


Shawn.M.T.,3
Like Moses did, Jesus also told of future events and
behaviors in order to increase the faith of his disciples.
John 13:19: "Now I tell you before it come, that, when
it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he."
John 14:29: "And now I have told you before it come
to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe."
---Nana on 4/18/08


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Shawn.M.T.,4
As the Lord would if possible not taken the cup, yet he
willingly submitted to God's will, he so desired that Peter
and all who believe in him be strong and grow in faith.
Yes, there was a difference between Peter and Ananias.
Peter most definitely was covered by the first Beatitude:
Matthew 5:3: "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is
the kingdom of heaven."
---Nana on 4/18/08


Shawn.M.T.,4
As the Lord would if possible not taken the cup, yet he
willingly submitted to God's will, he so desired that Peter
and all who believe in him be strong and grow in faith.
Yes, there was a difference between Peter and Ananias.
Peter most definitely was covered by the first Beatitude:
Matthew 5:3: "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is
the kingdom of heaven."
---Nana on 4/18/08


Shawn.M.T.,5
Peter, who was not a rock when Jesus found him, whom
any builder would have casted out as not fit for a strong
foundation, became quite the strong "rock" of whom the
early Christian's even believed that his mere shadow would
had been enough to heal them, Acts 5:15. Yet, even after
the cock sang out three times, the Lord appeared to all of
them, and Peter said "I go a fishing", and the Lord was a
grievance to him with, "lovest thou me?".
---Nana on 4/18/08


Shawn.M.T.,6
Yes, Peter lied and denied the Lord because his faith was
weak and he was afraid and he was not at that time all that
he thougth he was. The Lord have shown that he will work
with such a heart and such a spirit that Love Him. Ananias
was in no dire situation, rather he premeditated the lie, he
planned it with his wife.
---Nana on 4/18/08


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Shawn.M.T.,7
I find very tougth provoking what Jack said and also what
you said to Mima about being at once saved and lost. With
you and Jack I agree. Proverbs 9:9: "Give instruction to a
wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he
will increase in learning." Peter indeed increased.
---Nana on 4/18/08


Shawnt.M.T.,8
Matthew 13:12: "For whosoever hath, to him shall be given,
and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not,
from him shall be taken away even that he hath." Ananias
indeed decreased.
---Nana on 4/18/08


Here's a statement by Shirley that I'm inclined to agree with,"
Yes,Peter was saved at the time but he had no real power to stand firm until the Holy Ghost fell on him at Pentecost. "
years ago, I did a study on Peter and certainly something of a dramatic life changing event took place in his life. And the fact that the Holy Ghost fell at Pentecost might be the answer.
---Mina on 4/17/08


Yes,Peter was saved at the time but he had no real power to stand firm until the Holy Ghost fell on him at Pentecost.Then he was an entire diffirent person who was willing to die for his faith which he did.All of the disciples died for Jesus except John who they attempted to kill and he did suffer a lot too.
---shirley on 4/17/08


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Nana
There is a difference between Peter's situation and Ananias's. It was spoken by the Lord that Peter would deny Him three times. So Peter could not confess the Lord before man. All that the Lord speaks will come to past since the Word of the Lord is the truth, and does not return to Him void. But Peter, unlike Ananias, repented when given the chance to renounce the weakness of his flesh.
---Shawn.M.T on 4/16/08


Mima
We can be saved and at the same time lost because the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. Thankfully we have a forgiving & merciful Lord that is always chastening us & will never forsake us.
---Shawn.M.T on 4/16/08


While Peter stayed outside the high priest's court (John 18:15-16), John "was known to the high priest, and went with Jesus into the courtyard of the high priest," then "went out and spoke to her who kept the door, and brought Peter in." So... John "the love disciple" was not afraid to be a known disciple of Jesus ("the is no fear in love" - - in 1 John 4:18). I'd say his being unafraid made way for him even to be allowed in while Jesus was being interrogated.
---Bill_bila5659 on 4/16/08


Just before Jesus ascended into heaven Jesus asked Peter,
Do you love me Peter, 3 times Jesus did this.
Feed My Flock!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 4/16/08


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Points to ponder:
Matthew 10:33: "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him
will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."
Matthew 26:35: "Peter said unto him, Though I should die with
thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples."
Acts 5:3: "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine
heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price
of the land?"
---Nana on 4/16/08


Yes Peter was saved when he denied Christ three times. I believed that Peter backslide. He was thinking of himself, didn't know if they would punish him as well. But when after the cock crowed the third time, Peter wept bitterly and I believe in his heart he asked Christ to forgive him. Because he goes on throughout the bible and was beheaded because of his love for Christ.
---Rebecca_D on 4/15/08


Mima,

Peter was saved, his knowlege of Christ Matt 16:16, is evidence of the working of the Holy Spirit.

Also please note that Peter never denied that Jesus was the Christ, he denied that he knew him, due to fear of being harmed or killed.

In fact, when we open our mouth and curse as Peter did Mark 14:71, we are verbally denying that the Holy Ghost has done a work on us.
---trey on 4/15/08


Jack, you hit the nail right on the head!
---Dr.Rich on 4/15/08


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I beieve Peter was saved at this time. When he denied the Lord three times, he wasn't really denying Christ, Himself, he did deny who Christ was. Peter just simply gavein to fear, his flesh feared what could possibly happen to him if they decided to take him also. Remember, afterwards, all Jesus had to do is look at him and it brought him to tears. He would not have cried so bitterly if he didn't have the love of God in his heart.
---Debbie_Jo on 4/15/08


Keep in mind there's a big difference between what the BIBLE means by being saved, and what pop-0evangelicals mean by being saved. They are NOT the same thing.
---Jack on 4/15/08


I'd say Peter was saved, but he gave in to temptation, but did not permanently deny Jesus. Before Peter denied Jesus, here is what Jesus said > "'But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail, and when you have returned to me, strengthen your brethren.'" (Luke 22:32) Jesus knew Peter would *return*. Peter could not return to Jesus, if he had not been with Him, in the first place. And ones could not be his "brethren" if he was not a brother.
---Bill_bila5659 on 4/15/08


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