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I'm A Recovering Agnostic

I'm a recovering agnostic, trying to find faith. I was raised catholic but I wonder if all the robes and chants are necessary. However, the 'born-again' plan seems zany in that God sends most of His beloved children to hell, and many born-agains seem rather unstable. Any suggestions?

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 ---Steve on 9/16/08
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Quit looking at everyone else to see if God is real! If you want to have faith then get into the bible! If you base your decision to believe in God off of other people being perfect or not, then you may never get to know the Lord! If you want to know what kind of church to attend, then read the bible! Scripture gives a complete description of what a surrendered church practices. It's not about robes and rituals or any denomination. It's all about Jesus. Read the Word, and check out the churches in your area to see which ones are preaching straight from the bible. Now as for worship preferences, you better be ready for anything! True worshippers are excited about Jesus, and they're not afraid to show it! God bless!
---BryanG on 2/8/09

GOD sends no one to hell. He give us a choice to do right and walk in love or do wrong and walk in hate. We choose on to live in heaven or die and cease to exist in hell.
---Samuel on 2/5/09

God sends none of His beloved children to hell. Only the children of Satan. We are not unstable. The lost is unstable. We are radically different, some.
---catherine on 2/4/09

If we desire and strive to do good and are willing to accept truth as we come to know it, our faith grows. We are meant to live by faith. Its not the same as knowledge. I think I am safe to say that probably none of us have actually seen God, even many of our spiritual experiences are more about feelings than cold hard facts. Faith grows as we have more positive experiences in following it. But, if faith were the same thing as knowledge, we wouldn't have both words. Many people cast aside their faith, some to follow athiesm and agnosticism. Others cast it aside and pretend to zealous knowlege so that they can appear "holier than thou".
---doug on 2/4/09

Atheist why the gaff? For me God is as real to me as you are.

Well sure you can say that someone doesn't actually exist and that I'm only imgaining it. But like the radical skeptic that may doubt the chair he demonstrates his faith in it when he stands up.

I am logical, stable and rational. In addition to this I am ever thankful for God's Love, Mercy and Grace that he has given me and the journey that I travel becoming Christlike. Goodtimes!!!
---Martin_nz on 10/8/08

I agree with Frances---once you're in the asylum, the people in the white coats will seem very strange.

Some people are much happier because they have their imaginary friends to talk to. When you are with people who also have their own imaginary friends, the invisibility of your imaginary friend is less noticeable.

But you could be one of those people who are better off without imaginary friends.

Something to think about...

Got to go. My invisible pink elephant is trying to tell me something....Shhs...
---atheist on 10/7/08

Steve, most born agains seem unstable to you because you are outside judging them and not inside seeing what they suffer due to their 'wierd' ideas. I am also a Catholic by blood. I asked myself why I was a Catholic and the only reason was that I was born a Catholic. I grew up to believe it was the only true faith. I went through the Charismatic Renewal thirty years ago and prayed that the Holy Spirit would guide me. That was my main prayer for my life. He did guide me and I now have reached the most faith I have ever had in my life. I believe the Word of God to be the Truth and everything that does not conform to it is a lie. Don't judge Christians by appearances. Walk your walk and hopefully you too will be born again.
---frances008 on 10/6/08

***I'm a recovering agnostic, trying to find faith.***

You can't FIND faith
You can't try to muster up faith

What is's not a work or some effort, but an attitude!

Abraham believed what God said, and God counted to Abraham as Righteousness.

He just simply took God at His Word.

And your take on the Gospel is looking at ti through man's eyes.....mostly mislead that is.

Just read the Bible, and believe God's word...not man' is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. Keep your eyes on God...not zany unstable double minded men!

WE will ALWAYS let us down!!!
---kathr4453 on 10/6/08

I suggest that you stop worrying about the end and begin at the beginning. Let the facts lead were they may. I can't say where they will lead you, but I would suggest that if you are wanting to know about Christ, that you read the New Testament through a few times specifically trying to get the meaning and the significant doctrines (especially Christ's actual spoken words), then try to find a church that matches that. If you don't have any luck at first, perhaps consider a rather open non-denominational church where people are more desirious to understand the word, than to indoctrinate you with it. I think that certain churches are closer to Christ's teachings than others, but that none of them have got it all correct.
---Missy on 10/5/08

I would say it is a weak god who cannot fulfill his own will.
---Ryan_Z on 10/2/08

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.

One must understand God's MERCY before one can grasp God's Grace. You can't separate the two.

Is Mercy unmerited favor? WELL, mercy is in the hands of the one who has the power to give or not give. Have you ever been at the mercy of the court? an officer? a boss who had the right to FIRE you?

However based on the merits of Christ and Calvary, GRACE is offered as a free GIFT to anyone humble enough to hold out their hand confessing they cannot have mercy on themselves, but must receive this MERCY from God and God alone through Jesus Christ our Lord!!!
---kathr4453 on 10/2/08

Interesting notion Ryan Z

A thought. The Book of Jonah isn't about a dude that gets swallowed by a whale/sea monster. It is about God seeking to reconciliate a people who were sinning and warranted his justice. So He sends Jonah to warn them. Hating the Assyrians he rebels against God until he sets him straight. However when they repent he throws an even bigger sad than before he was sent. God then gives him something and takes it away and continues to cry evens more than before. Then God sets Him straight about His love for them.

I find it highly contentious that they became Jews and certainly did not become Christians and even more so that after they repented God sent them to Hell.
---Martin_nz on 10/2/08

Steve, from what I understand of the bible God does not send the majority of His creration to an eternal BBQ pit. I suggest studying the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation, it opened my eyes. I have also realized that most of the corporate church doctrines are incorrect and fueld by a desire to keep people in line by fear.
---Ryan_Z on 10/2/08

Hi Steve,

The one thing that most people can agree on about Justice is that people should get their due (good or bad) what their due is people disagree. This is effectively an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth not very sexy to say this our day and age. But I believe this to be the state of nature. A result of the fall and one the main manifestations of sin that we can't even see at times. Its like missing the wood for the trees. But ayh, we can't see out of our fish bowl.
---Martin_nz on 10/1/08

I would add this: Grace, though sometimes misused as you've noted, does refer to a noun. Grace is God's unmerited favor. Ephesians 2 lays it out nicely. We are saved by GRACE through faith.

Yes we are saved by Grace ...more excellent way pointed out GRACE misused as a noun Eph 2 GRACE is STILL an ACTION ...GRACE ONLY GIVEN BY the Father and FAVOR must be GIVEN or automatically rewarded

further ...we are saved by Grace but ACTION is required by a Christian who is to OBEY as this is the ongoing theme in NT - to OBEY ...through striving to obey we learn to walk like Christ ...not a feeling or declaration of grace by faith as many mistakenly claim
---Rhonda on 9/30/08

Darling. You made me laugh as your observation was unfortunate for the folks you have described. I have a suggestion for you, get this thing called a Bible and open it. I you read all of the pages you will eventually come to the end of it. Afterward then I would consider visiting churches or groups of people who have similar views as you do. These designations that people put to humans only distract from what should be a relationship between you and God. He won't mind if you read The Bible. You need a quiet space and some time to do it. I think you'll feel better about this when finished. Everyone should read this .Relax.
---Pamela on 9/23/08

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Reaching our destination (the NEW heaven, Revelation 21:1), is a two step process.

Simply 'accepting' the FREE gift (the gift is not imperialist) is not the same as being "born of" the Godly spirit. A person must actually BE peaceful and just in order to have God's spirit in them (indwell).

Everyone on earth has salvation AVAILABLE to them, but not all will "walk by the spirit" (Galatians 5:16).

Luke 3:6
"all flesh shall see the salvation of God."

2 Corinthians 1:22
"his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5
"the Spirit as a guarantee".

Ephesians 1:14
"which is the guarantee of our inheritance".
---more_excellent_way on 9/20/08

The ability to believe that something is valid and exists is not the same as the ability to believe/trust in the merits (goodness) of it. Godliness involves a "FAITH FOR faith" (Romans 1:17).

Hebrews 11:6 states two requirements for those who would "draw near" (LOVE God).

"must believe that he exists AND that he rewards those who seek him".

The god of confusion (satan) has always "confused" the thoughts of all humanity so that we will believe that we should INTERPRET what is written to mean whatever we feel is convenient. The "strong delusion" has been around all throughout history because we refuse to "love the truth and SO BE SAVED" (2 Thessalonians 2:10).
---more_excellent_way on 9/21/08

One of the most ignored/neglected points of scripture is that blood AND water poured from Christ's side at the cross (John 19:34).

The "living water" baptism of God's spirit ((John 7:38, Acts 1:5) is what will make us "born again" so that we will "neither thirst" (Revelation 7:16). Many Christians simply come to Jesus "out of hunger" but simply rather pretend to become worthy (the puffed up ego game) by becoming 'master scholar' and accomplishing self works, but Jesus is our ONLY foundation and we should not set another of our own (Hebrews chapter 6).

Jesus did the works of God (John 6:28 and 9:3) and we should just let them be manifest in us.
---more_excellent_way on 9/21/08

Our faith must be borne out of LOVE for God (1 Corinthians 12:31 and 13:13) in order to learn the "depths of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10).

Unbelievers should fear not knowing God (it is the BEGINNING of wisdom), but once we come to know Him, our love should be made perfect and there should be no more fear (1 John 4:18, Mark 12:30, Isaiah 29:13). We should know God as "Abba Father" (dear father, Galatians 4:6) not master/taskmaster, and be a "friend" of God (James 2:23).

The brethren in Christ did not hang on the cross (no special treatment, James 2:1).

"God is ONE" (Galatians 3:20). Jesus is the WHOLE fullness of God (Colossians 2:9).
---more_excellent_way on 9/21/08

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steve,however zany people may be,being born again is scriptural, and a REQUIREMENT TO ENTER HEAVEN.WHY? CAUSE JESUS SAID IT WAS john chapter 3 verse 3
---tom2 on 9/20/08

STEVE:The saying you cannot fit a square peg in a round hole applies.Consider your words why you left Gods church.What has Robes and Chants have to do with Faith and Love? Robes is Tradition like clothing, robes shirts and pants. Doctrine is Jesus Teachings and your acceptance which is Faith or BELIEF.since you have made a statement all you have to do is go back to C/church talk to a priest ask his advice and if you are sorry lost and in need of direction ask.? The lords ARMs remain open and outspread "Come to me all who are laboured and burdened and I WILL REFRESH you"Once a catholic always a catholic Peace and blessings.
---MIC on 9/20/08

"I'm a recovering agnostic, trying to find faith."
Look within, the Father has given to every man 'the' measure of faith. Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Commit your works (actions and activities) unto the LORD, and your thoughts will be established. Cast your burden upon the LORD and He shall sustain you. Seek above all else His kingdom (the reign of His Spirit within you) and His righteousness, a righteousness which is of Him by faith (complete unwavering confidence and assurance) in the finished work of His anointed Savior, Christ Jesus. Trust in Him rather than your own finite understanding, acknowledge Him in all you do and He will direct you.
---josef on 9/18/08

"[Grace] is often misused as a noun. It actually refers to an adjective (God gives GRACIOUSLY/generously). God not only graciously gave His son on the cross, but He also graciously gave us His spirit so we could learn to be peaceful and just (peaceful co-existence) and be "born of" His spirit."

A beautiful response, but I would add this: Grace, though sometimes misused as you've noted, does refer to a noun. Grace is God's unmerited favor. Ephesians 2 lays it out nicely. We are saved by GRACE through faith.
---Bobby3 on 9/17/08

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Technically, the term "born again" is completely valid, although it has become a cliche (jargon) and often is not explained sufficiently. It means that the "new" person (new creation) should be a GODLY one having a peaceful and just character/demeanor/spirit ("be transformed by the renewal of the MIND", Romans 12:2).

Like many things, the word "Grace" has become jargon/terminology/nomenclature also. The word is often misused as a noun. It actually refers to an adjective (God gives GRACIOUSLY/generously). God not only graciously gave His son on the cross, but He also graciously gave us His spirit so we could learn to be peaceful and just (peaceful co-existence) and be "born of" His spirit.
---more_excellent_way on 9/17/08

"Born-again" has become a cultural art form. It is good you can see that it is wrong to be unstable. But even if there are a lot of glass diamonds, this does not mean there aren't any real ones. We can feel what God is feeling, in His love. Don't be clever enough to keep yourself out, Steve, please . . . God bless you . . .
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/16/08

Steve, don't look at others, look at Jesus and keep your eyes and heart FIXED on Him. Follow Him, not others.

Read the Gospel of John first, then Matthew, Mark and Luke. Talk to God and tell Him how you feel and ask Him to show you signs and wonders about Himself.

You need to understand what Born Again means. The first time you are born, you are born of the flesh and your spirit is not alive unto God. When you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and are Baptised in the Holy Spirit according to Acts Chapter 2 verse 38, then your spirit comes alive and the Holy Spirit unites with your spirit and Jesus promised you would live the Abundant Life filled with power. Find a good Pentecostal or Evangelical church to go to.
---donna8365 on 9/16/08

The robes and chants have no spiritual significance (to God, they are hypocritical and insincere). God regards all of man's traditions, cermonies/rityals, and gestures of devotion as insincere...

Amos 5:21
"I hate, I despise your feasts, and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies".

We must "walk by THE SPIRIT" (Galatians 5:16 and 25) and learn the "sword of the SPIRIT" (1 Corinthians 2:10) in order to "enter by the door" (John 10:1).

We must do the "works of God" (John 6:28 and 9:3) by simply trusting that Jesus did everything necessary for us to return to Him.
---more_excellent_way on 9/16/08

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Agnostic Steve-
Do you think you are a good person? Have you ever lied = liar, have you ever used God's name as a cussword = blasphamy, have you ever stolen something = theif, have you ever looked with lust at someone = adultery, have you ever hated someone or got angry with someone = murder. God's standards are differant from ours and all these things WILL land you in Hell. God sent His only Son to take your punishment for you, by dieing on a cross and shedding His blood. If you repent (turn from) your sins, and trust in Jesus like a skydiver to a parachute, God will save you from Hell and you WILL go to Heaven.
---Leslie on 9/16/08

First get to understand the difference between 'peaceful co-existence' (being peaceful and just, Godly spirit) and "religion".

Realistically, religions are just man's 'clubs' that pursue 'worthiness', but humanity can never be worthy of what God has done for us (but the human ego refuses to acknowledge this).

Many things that you hear in traditional Christianity are based on misunderstandings. God sent His son to purify our FLESH (Hebrews 9:14), but we can only have guarantee of salvation if we also have our CONSCIENCE purified by having the Godly spirit in our heart AND mind (Romans 12:2, 1 Corinthians 1,22).

Nobody can really be thought of as (deemed) perfect, but Jesus REdeemed us spiritually.
---more_excellent_way on 9/16/08

"One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God." A little study of Bible prophecy and its 100% accuracy will turn you from agnosticism.
God sents none of his beloved children to hell, in fact he has made a way for anyone who will receive him to escape hell. Since Adam sold us out in the garden of eden all are born with inherited sin. To become a child of God is to openly receive him by asking him to save your soul. The instability of many believers is caused by a failure to grow in their knowledge of their salvation in God!!
---mima on 9/16/08

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