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Jesus Born On December 25th

What Jesus Christ born on December 25th?

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Eloy~ I agree, when verses are taken out of context, it is often done to support false doctrine, and it's often done by those who don't take the consequences of sin seriously. God bless.

StrongAxe~ You've been patient, and I know you discern well. Continue to teach in patience and kindness. God bless.
---Anne on 4/16/09


I know. I'm happy to learn from wise about scripture, since (as Eloy says), pulling verses out of context can often lead to wrong interpretations. The Pharisees did it all the time, and Peter also warns about it too:

2 Peter 1:20
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

My problem is when anyone makes categorical assertions about what scripture says, but then refuses to show where those assertions come from.

Jumping to conclusions based on possibly incorrect interpretations of scriptures is bad. Jumping to conclusions based on ones own memory of what one thinks the Bible says is even worse.
---StrongAxe on 4/16/09

Anne, you must keep the verses in their proper context, else you will have false doctrine: 1 John 1:8 is not speaking about Christians walking in the light, but is speaking only about those in verse 6, those walking in darkness but they lie and say they are walking in the light with Jesus when in truth they are walking in sin instead. Anne, I can give you every instance where false doctrine is preached, and in more times than not it is because an isolated verse or verses was extracted out of it's right context and used to support false doctrine. And this "sin-supporters" doctrine is a very common false teaching.
---Eloy on 4/16/09

StrongAxe~ Yes, how you stated that is the way I read it in scripture as well. Take care and God bless.

P.S. I know you get irritated with Eloy, but you know Eloy is pretty wise about scripture, but we need to try and approach him in a calm type easy-going way. It seems like every person we meet we have to approach in a unique way and try and let the Spirit help us understand their individual strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes people are on meds or whatever and it influences their behavior etc. I don't know if this made any sense...I just like to see a little more peace going on if possible. Thanks a lot.
---Anne on 4/15/09


Bravo! Exactly!

We should always endeavour to practice perfection. Unfortunately, we are imperfect and often fall short of that ideal. Nevertheless, when we DO fall short we should confess our error, be forgiven, and then continue on again - we should not blindly insist that we are perfect and therefore cannot sin.
---StrongAxe on 4/15/09


You claim "saints cannot lie" and refuse to provide proof. You ask me to accept the Word you preach. I believe God's Word, not Eloy's Opinions (unless you SHOW those opinions are, God's Word by quoting chapter and verse).

On the other hand, I DID provide proof that Peter DID lie 3 times. (See: Matthew 26, Mark 24, Luke 22). I quote scripture, yet you contradict it.

Remember Galatians 1:8-9:
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
---StrongAxe on 4/15/09

I hate arguing, let's look at scripture instead.

On the one hand we have I John 1:6 which tells us:

"If we SAY that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice truth." (In other words, a true Christian will NOT walk in deliberate sin.)

On the other hand we have I John 1:8 that says:

"If we say we have NO sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." (In other words, we ALL make mistakes and will undeliberately sin.)

vs 9 says though that "if we CONFESS our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (Notice, Confession is required for forgiveness.)
---Anne on 4/15/09

.strongax, you say you want me to educate you, then prove it, and accept the Word I preach: else the light I preach be darkness to you.
---Eloy on 4/15/09


You say that it is impossible for a saint to lie. Do you have any scripture to back this up? I remember that stipulation being a criterion applied to prophets, but I don't remember it ever being applied to saints. Please educate us if I'm wrong here.

However, I can show several examples where a saint DID lie: In particular, on the night Jesus was betrayed, Peter lied three separate times and said he didn't know Jesus. If Peter isn't a saint, then I don't know who else is!

Saints aren't perfect (and irrerrant, etc.) - only God is perfect - they're just redeemed.
---StrongAxe on 4/13/09

Eloy ... In that case, being a Saint, he should say in what way the accused blasphemed.

Where is the blasphemy in asking the saint to show where the Bible actually says the shepherds were in the fields in the winter?

The evidence points to them being out in the winter, but I can't find where the Bible actually & specifically says so.

Be a Saint, Eloy, and enlighten us.
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/11/09

.alan, It is not possible for the saint to lie, but only the unChristed souls such as you have just manifested.
---Eloy on 4/11/09

UK Alan, well, what can I say. Have a pleasant Easter.
---JohnnyB on 4/10/09

JohnnyB ... But usually, he says why.
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/10/09

Brothers and Sisters in the Lord why are we so caught up in such a debate as this.We should be acknowledging the fact that Jesus the Christ did come into this world, it should not be a debate of when. Whether we agree or disagree on certain dates it should not cause one person to call another a blasphemer. For those who are more mature in Christ should not contend with those who are babes but should guide them with love into the truth with patience and perserverance. WE SHOULD BE BONDING TOGETHER!!IN UNITY!!!THE WORLD IS COMING AGAINST US EXTERNALLY!! WE DON'T NEED THE DIVISION INTERNALLY!!I SAY THIS WITH LOVE!!
---Javier on 4/10/09

UK Alan, everyone who disagrees with Eloy is a blasphemer. Have a blessed Easter!
---JohnnyB on 4/10/09

Eloy ... You have just proved you lied when you said I blasphemed.
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/10/09

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.alan, I do not need to justify nor withdraw any truth I post. In the past I have humored you in elaborating and expounding in minute details the sundry issues of your false-witnessing against me, and so as you ask of me once again: No, I will not humor you alan, instead I will redeem the time and continue to post the truth in the hopes that some here will accept it and be saved and become blessed. alan, when you decide to accept my words, then you will be blessed, and if you choose to continually dis my words, then that is your rejection.
---Eloy on 4/10/09


You mention fruits. Most of what I see in your posts here are condemnation of others, accusations of unbelief, claims that YOU are on an inside track with God so you must be right, which means others must be wrong.

Please elaborate which of my fruits "manifest sin". On these blogs, I mostly point out things scripture actually says, and to challenge things people claim scripture says but that it DOESN'T actually say.

You don't show proof that my comments are incorrect. Instead, you just continually attack my person (and others). This is reminiscent of name-calling children use to attempt to win arguments.

It's also telling how many other people on these blogs find your comments useful and educating.
---StrongAxe on 4/8/09

Eloy ... for about the 4th time (I have not checked exactly how many times I have asked) ....
"What blasphemy is there in mine of 3/27"

You accused me of blasphemy, and refuse to justify or withdraw that lie.

I suggest you fall short of the standards required of the sanctified of God
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/8/09

.strongax, I have Christ, for out of my mouth my heart speaks, and my fruits bear Christ: yet you need his Salvation also, for out of your mouth your heart speaks, and your fruits manifest sin.
---Eloy on 4/7/09

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You first.
---StrongAxe on 4/7/09

strongax, get saved.
---Eloy on 4/6/09


Jesus said he would deny those who denied HIM. He said NOTHING about those who disputed the date of his birth (something about which he said ABSOLTEULY NOTHING).

The New Testament makes clear (in many many places) the things Jesus expects of us, and God expects of us. Nowhere does it say our salvation depends on believing doctrines which are not CLEARLY spelled out but which require much extensive esoteric research into calendars and chronologies and civil records.

Continuing arguments like this are divisive, and straining on gnats while swallowing camels.

Titus 3:9
"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless."
---StrongAxe on 4/6/09

NonChristians reject the Scriptures and Christ's birth on December 25 as recorded in both the Holy Scriptures and in the civil chronicles, and nonChristians are rejected by Christ because they have rejected him.
---Eloy on 4/6/09

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Eloy"-Listen to the tone of your voice and the words you use " I may just discontinue to address the continual opponents altogether and only continue the true seekers and those hungering and thirsting for righteousness----Your motive is of key" WOW wee! excuse me!! but you do perch yourself on a high pedestal as though you had a following, flocking to hear your gullability.I do not wish to be unkind this is not a retaliation contest.But you do amaze me in your quest to serve your fellowman/W, with His kind of love.Happy Easter Eloy may the Risen Christ direcy your footsteps to HIS path which he advocates.
---MIC on 4/5/09

Jesus was CONCIEVED on Dec. 25th. He was actually born in September!

Anyone who says differently has not done enough study in God's Scripture. The original Hebrew (old Testament) and Greek (New Testament) texts are very clear on this point!--Rev._Daniel on 4/2/09

I think you have the wrong person.
The Church celebrates that Mary, the mother of Jesus was concieved in Decemeber, but on the 8th and born September 8th.

Remember, I said celebrates not actually facts of history.

We don't know the true date of the Birth of Jesus. But, do we have to know in order to celebrate the birth of Christ?
---Natalie2 on 4/5/09

Eloy ... you have a funny understanding of words.

What has StrongAxe said which is "false witness"? He has a slightly different understanding of phrases which have been used. That is not false witness

And you accuse me of blaspheming the sanctified. I see no blasphemy in what I said, and you will not tell me how I blasphemed. To me that sounds like false witness on your part

Perhaps now you will answer me ...

What blasphemy is there in mine of 3/27?

I asked you to educate me by telling me where in the Bible it makes the specific statement that the shepherds were tending their flocks in th middle of winter.

How is it blasphemy to ask such a question as that?
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/5/09

strongax, I did not say Christians worship "the day" but we Christians worship Christ's birthday: similarly Christians and nonChristians alike celebrate each person's birthday each year the person lives- we are not celebrating "the day", but rather celebrating "the birthday of the person". If you continue to fabricate false-witness, I will discontinue to address your foolishness. And I may just discontinue to address the continual opponents altogether, and only focus on addressing the true seekers and those sincerely hungering and thirsting for righteousness, for you and a few others on this forum are not truly caring nor desirous of Truth nor Salvation, but your motive is off key.
---Eloy on 4/4/09

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Christians are NOT supposed to "worship his birthday". We are not supposed to worship any THING at all. We are supposed to worship God ALONE.

Perhaps one of the reasons why the New Testament make specific chronological references to the time when the census decree went out, but does NOT do so for either the conception nor birth of Jesus, is a good indicator that the exact date is NOT specifically important. For this very exact reason - if it WAS known, people would obsess over the date (much as people on this blog are doing), and worship it in an idolatrous fashion (much as people in our modern society are doing), both of which are Bad Things and detract from the whole reason why he came here in the first place.
---StrongAxe on 4/3/09


Right. The Old Testament Jewish calendar was measured from new moon to new moon. You don't even have to go to scriptures, or old documents, or fancy interpretations, or traditions at all to see that this is not synchronized with the Gregorian calendar that we use today. Just go outside and look up on every new moon - the dates of the new moons shift from year to year. So Decembet 25 could be on a full moon one year, on a new moon another year, and inbetween on other years.


Can you provide scriptures to prove that he was conceived on Dec. 25?
---StrongAxe on 4/2/09

rev?daniel- Prove it if you can.
---Betty on 4/2/09

Unlearned people wrongly think that multitudes of devout Christians whom were given Christ's exact birthdate have somehow mistakenly decided to worship his birthday on some other wrong day for thousands of years. How foolish are the unversed in the Truth.
---Eloy on 4/2/09

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.strongax, The modern jewish calendar today is not completely concise with the ordered time in the Scriptures. The twelve months are as I have already posted. And each 30 day month was counted from new moon to new moon (I Kings 4:7, Psalm 104:19, Isaiah 66:23, Ezekiel 46:1). Each 24 hour day was counted from evening at sunset up to the next evening at sunset. Please read, Leviticus 23:32. According to the scriptures the Jewish hours were measured 12 hours for the day, and 12 hours for the night, that is, from daybreak or sunrise which was between 6 o'clock and 7 o'clock in the morning up to sunset which was 6 o'clock in the evening. Thus the 1st hour was 6 a.m. and the 6th hour was 12 noon. Please read, Psalm 104:22,23, John 11:9,10.
---Eloy on 4/2/09

Was Jesus born on December 25th.?

Jesus was CONCIEVED on Dec. 25th. He was actually born in September!

Anyone who says differently has not done enough study in God's Scripture. The original Hebrew (old Testament) and Greek (New Testament) texts are very clear on this point!
---Rev._Daniel on 4/2/09


Yes, you are right in that regard.

Can you provide specific details of just how well (or poorly) our current Jewish calendar compares with the one used in the Old Testament? (And I mean scriptural evidence, not merely personal opinions).

And similarly for the Gregorian calendar that we use today (that wasn't put into use until 15 centuries after Jesus was born)?
---StrongAxe on 4/1/09

eloy- No matter what time of year Jesus was born, Christians celebrate His birth on Dec. 25. Pagans had something better to do than celebrate the Saturnalia, etc. after that. Celebrating Jesus Christ's birth is what is important, not the date. Christmas celebrations give glory to the Lord.

Most likely He was born during the Feast of Tabernacles, which was equal to September/October.
---Betty on 4/1/09

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.strongax, all current manmade calendars, whether Jewish or otherwise, must be judged according to Holy Writ. The manmade jewish calendar that you find on the market today may or may not be the same calendar which is recorded in the Holy Writ. And if indeed it is found to be different, then the Christian must accept God's Word over man's.
---Eloy on 4/1/09

Eloy ... What blasphemy is there in mine of 3/27?

I asked you to educate me by telling me where in the Bible it makes the specific statement that the shepherds were tending their flocks in th middle of winter.

How is it blasphemy to ask such a question as that?
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/1/09

.mic, it is not possible for the false witness to correct the true witness.
---Eloy on 4/1/09

Eloy: I agree whole heartedly and that is why I correct you.The word of God is in Luke 2:7 If you still desire to do Gods work dp it by HIS BOOK.If you continue by your method then you do not serve JESUS .What remains is His opposition .U Know who that is."This above all to thine own self be true."not sanctimonious.
---MIC on 3/31/09

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You make statements of fact based on extra-Biblical information, and without proof. Yet when others (and there are many of us) do EXACTLY THE SAME THING, and are willing to offer proof of it, you say that we are speaking falsehood.

So, which of all of us is speaking falsehood? And, if so, as a corollary of your own declaration stated multiple times, which of us does that say is unsaved?

Note that even to this day, unlike you, I have never accused you of anything. I merely questioned the accuracy of your statements, and asked you to back them up. Yet you always reply to such requests with accusations and abuse.
---StrongAxe on 3/31/09

,mic, the unsaved continues to speak falsehood.
---Eloy on 3/31/09


Have you ever actually gone into a store and looked at a Jewish calendar? Their months vary according to our calendar months - they start on different months every year.
---StrongAxe on 3/30/09

Eloy:You were the first to suggest that "Swaddled" means "Cradled"at least on this post. But read Luke2:7 That is what is meant and wrapped Him in swathling clothes and placed Him in a manger.'QUILT strapped'? would mean luxury and Paposse is a north American Indian Baby.Like Betty says you can't slide in on this one , But I am sure you will be willing to try.:-)
---MIC on 3/30/09

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Eloy ... Assuming it is yourself you refer to as the "sanctified of God" ... please tell me how I have blasphemed against you?

Please quote exactly what I have said which is blasphemy.

Please oblige

---alan8566_of_UK on 3/30/09

.strongax, the unsaved continues to speak falsehood.
---Eloy on 3/30/09

.bettyw, I posted nothing about Chinese tradition, nor any traditions at all. The picture reference I gave shows exactly what baby Jesus would have looked like when qulit-strapped. Whether people are Chinese or are Middle Eastern, these both equally quilt-strap their infants in the winter, and has zero to do with tradition and all to do with protecting the baby against the cold and thereby surviving mortality from freezing. The issue addressed is Christ born on December 25th in the winter vesus another warmer season, and my preaching is of Mariam quilt-strapping (Gk: esparganosen) Jesus because it was in the cold of winter, and she has zero need to do this in warm weather because the heat would not be needed in the heat.
---Eloy on 3/30/09


Regardless which calendar is "right", the Hebrew month of Chislev is not identical to the Gregorian (nor Julian) month of December. The Hebrew calendar is a lunar one, and the Julian and Gregorian ones are solar ones, so months in former move around compared to months in the latter from one year to another. So even if you can say that Jesus was born on 25 Chislev, this is NOT the same as 25 December. It may even very well be that day in some years, but not in most of them.

I am also a born-again Christian. However, unlike you, I do not presume to accuse others to be falsehood nor call them infidels.
---StrongAxe on 3/29/09

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.alanOfUk, You continue to condemn yourself by blaspheming the sanctified of God. Indeed the truth is a precious Cornerstone to the saved, but a Rock of offense to the unregenerate.
---Eloy on 3/28/09

eloy- You seem to have a fixation about a Chinese papoose. I seriously doubt that Mary would have anything to do with Chinese traditions. Your imagination has been on a race and slid in on Victory Lane, hasn't it? I don't think you're the winner in this argument.
---bettyw on 3/27/09

Eloy ... there is no need to get offensive ... it ill becomes a man of God

Of course I know that December is winter ... I have probably experienced it first hand much more than you.

I am not saying Jesus was not born in December. In fact I believe He was.
There is plenty of evidence that you have quoted that supports us in this.

BUT ... we cannot claim as part of the proof any evidence the shepherds were tending their sheep in the winter. Yes, they were, BUT the Bible does not specifically say they were.

We believe that Christ was born in December because of the other evidence ... not because the Bible says the shepherds were tending their sheep in the winter
---alan8566_of_UK on 3/27/09

.alanOfUk, Many people wrongly think that "swaddled" means "cradled" in the arms, and therefore they may be misled to believe Jesus was born when the climate was warm, but it literally means quilt-strapped. Mariam would not have quilt-strapped baby Jesus if it were not in the wintertime. If you would like to see what Jesus was wrapped in, you can see a good picture of a chinese papoose online at www dot photomediagroup dot com back-slash pmm back-slash issues back-slash Winter2001 back-slash images back-slash Weir back-slash chinesePapoose dot jpg
---Eloy on 3/27/09

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StrongAxe and dad, Good points!
---Gordon on 3/27/09

.strongax, According to the Everlasting Holy Scripture, and not according to any temporal manmade calendars, the twelve Biblical established months of the year have not changed:
1. Abib or Nisan= April
2. Zif= May
3. Siuan= June
4. Tammuz= July
5. Ab= August
6. Elul= September
7. Ethanim= October
8. Bul= November
9. Chisleu= December
10 Tebeth= January
11 Shebat= February
12 Adar= March
And since I am a born-again Christian, I cannot receive your falsehood.
---Eloy on 3/27/09

.mic, of a truth few souls will be saved, for most refuse to surrender their lives up to the Lord, they do not worship Jesus and refuse to obey Jesus' Commandments.
---Eloy on 3/27/09

.alanOfUk, are you so unlearned that you do not know that December 25 is indeed the winter? this is the truth, and not any strong inference as you say: nor do you not know that the continual feast of lights is also in the winter? Scripture tells us this plainly, as well as nonscriptural references.
---Eloy on 3/27/09

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While Chislev may occur AROUND December, the Jewish calendar is not synchronized with the Gregorian calendar. This is why Channukah (and the other Jewish holidays) occur on fixed days in the Jewish calendar, but they move around from year to year on our own. So even if Jesus was, in fact, born on the 24th of Chislev in a specific year, this would say nothing precise about what day he was born in our own calendar, especially since we didn't start using it until 1582.

Also, I don't think that people question the scriptures you quote, only your interpretations of them (although I will protest that the verses you quote from Haggai do NOT, in fact, have the words "(from December 24)" in them).
---StrongAxe on 3/26/09

Tammus was born on the 25 december..not Christ..I belive that it is not his birthday
---dad on 3/26/09

Eloy, YAHUSHUA (JESUS), the Light of the World was conceived on "Hanukkah". 9 months later, He was birthed on "Sukkot", the Feast of Tabernacles. For, He dwelt among us, mankind, in a Temporary, Flesh-and-Blood Body. John 1:14.
---Gordon on 3/26/09

Eloy:-Brilliant having confirmed that we are celebrating Jesus B'Day on the right day.So you vindicated yourself is this not much better: but you do have to get off that high pedestal as you give the impresion that you will be the only one in Heaven.Do you think this is right? Surely you are not SDA cause they think like that, or so I am told.BTW how can scripture prophesy?, I thought only Prophets do that. in reference to God.
---MIC on 3/26/09

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You say I err ... I will be willing to accept I am wrong if you can tell me where in scripture it says (in these words or similar) "The shepherds were tending their flocks in the wintertime"

You have given evidence that Jesus was born on 25th December, which would mean by strong inference that the shepherds were tending the sheep in the winter.

But where does it actually say that the shepherds were tending their flocks in the winter?
---alan8566_of_UK on 3/25/09

Eloy ... don't you see that I am not arguing with you about whether Jesus was born on 25th December?

I am just commenting that the Bible does not say "The shepherds were abiding in the fields keeping watch over their flocks in the winter"

If the bible does say that, please tell us where?
---alan8566_of_UK on 3/25/09

.mic, God has raised me up together with Christ and seated together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:6. And Scripture prophesies: "This thereupon know, that in final days will be desecrating speakers, slanderers, not lovers of good, mockers, having not the Spirit. For out of the heart the mouth speaks. A good tree cannot bring forward bad fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forward good fruit. Werefore by their fruits you all will know them. If they have called the Master of the house beelzeboub, how much more them of his household? They do this, for they are not of God."
---Eloy on 3/25/09

.alanOfUk, you err. Read the Scriptures that I have cited from the Holy Bible, for it is not possible for the false witness to correct the true witness.
---Eloy on 3/25/09

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.alanOfUk, The Hebrew ninth month is Chisleu, which is December: and the old Hebrew day was actually two days, measured from sundown one day up to sundown the next day. Jesus is the cornerstone. "And now set now your heart, from this day and upward, before the stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of YHWH: from this day and upward, from the 24th day of the ninth, (from December 24) from the day that the foundation of YHWH's Temple was laid, from this day will I bless. For he springs up as a suckling in his presence, and as a root out of parched ground...And she birthed the son of her, the first-born, and quilt-strapped him..." Haggai 2:15,18,19+ Isaiah 53:2+ Luke 2:7.
---Eloy on 3/25/09

Hanukkah (Hb: Dedicating). Feast of Dedicating, Festival of Lights. Started by the Maccabees in 165 B.C., 4 generations before Christ was born, after their victory over the Syrians. It is an 8 day Jewish holiday starting on the 25th of Chisleu (December 25), commemorating the rededication of the Temple by Judas Maccabaeus. Happy Hanukkah displays lighting the menorah (Hb: candlebranch, from meorah, "lights"), an 8 branched candlestand with the added candle used to kindle the other candle or candles in the menorah, on each successive night of the festival. Remarkably, 8 score after Hanukkah began God laid the Cornerstone of The Temple, Jesus Christ the Light of the world, born Dec.25 (Jn.9:5+10:22,23).
---Eloy on 3/25/09

Mark Eaton, I agree that the Messiah was born on "Sukkot". If the Churches and Seminaries would teach the Messianic/Jewish Holy Days, the common Church would understand quite abit more about their Saviour and Lord. It's interesting, though, that the food tray ended up being translated as a "manger". For the verb "to eat", in French, is "manger". Pronounced "mawng-ZHEE".
---Gordon on 3/25/09

Eloy: -You have created a pedestal so high that you are unable to crawl down from it I do not need your vindication, But God surely will.You claim to be a saint,but are you? your words and actions show you are human like any other.While what you say may be true of taking care of you, it depends on the diety you serve and call God.PRIDE has a downfall.Ypu will yet bow to the Almighty God whose other children you (to use your word) DISS, or is it Hiss.
---MIC on 3/24/09

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Eloy ... it is your imagination that I am dissing you.
I am honestly correcting your misstatement. The Bible does NOT specifically that the shepherds were tending their sheep in the depths of winter
They may well have been, but the Bible does not say so.
If you think that making this point is persecuting you, you do indeed have the complex.
And when on other occasions you accuse me of dissing you when all I am doing is asking a question or seeking clarification, that also is evidence of the complex
---alan8566_of_UK on 3/24/09

alanOfUk, Christmas (from Greek: Christos + simeio, the mark or time of Christ), marks Christ's birth. Christmas means, Festival of Christ, and is the celebration of Christ's birth. According to the Holy Scripture Jesus Christ was born at night between 7 and 8 o'clock Mediterraean time, on December 25, 5 B.C. Please Read- Haggai 2:15,18,19+ Isaiah 28:16+ 53:2+ Luke 2:7,12.
---Eloy on 3/24/09

Did you know when you die your date of birth is of no consequence to those in the next realm, they take your date of Death.all saints use this date of death as entrance to heaven.This is not a 'believe it or not' but Fact.
---MIC on 3/24/09

.alanOfUk, Because sinners persecute us saints, does not mean we holy saints have a persecution complex, neither are we able. Neither does your continual dissing us make us sinuous like you, nor can your false witness make our innocence guilty. As I correct you time and again, if you seriously want to know Truth, then seriously inquire from us whom are charged with the Truth, but if you want to continue to diss the Truth, then you will continue to be separate from the Truth and will continue to be lost. The student whom mocks the teacher is failed, and fails to learn any thing: but the student whom accepts the teaching is wise, and succeeds to learn many things.
---Eloy on 3/24/09

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.mic, I do not vindicate myself against false witnesses, Christ alone vindicates me, and he himself condemns every tongue that rises against me. As I have said before, God is not mocked, and he takes the best of care of his own children. My God takes very good care of those whom do me good, and my Almighty God also takes care of those whom do me wrong.
---Eloy on 3/24/09

Probably some wish to bring up old pagan practices about the winter solstice. I used to concern myself about Dec. 25 also. Then I noticed that God let people build some churches on pagan sites where pagan temples stood. Some of those churches are still around today as a witness for Christianity. He must have meant it that way, or He would have had the churches destroyed like He did the Temple of God at Jerusalem. If He finds no fault with a church being on a pagan piece of land, why would we? Also, He gave a pagan land (Canaan) to the Israelites and called it the Promised Land. He let people replace an ugly celebration with a good and holy celebration.
---bettyw on 3/24/09

I submit to the group that it does matter when Jesus was born if He was truly born on the Feast of Tabernacles. I cannot give the full proof here, but I have seen and read (from Messianic Jews) the evidence that Jesus was born on Sukkot, or Feast of Tabernacles. It makes perfect sense. If Jesus was the Passover Lamb, why not "God in a temporary dwelling" like a body? The truth about his birth has been SO overlooked. He was not born in a stable. He was born in a Sukkah, and laid on its food tray (shelf) that the translators could only describe as a "manger".
---Mark_Eaton on 3/24/09

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