All of you say you know the teachings of the lord. However, you are the first to cast a stone. Yes, you do and say you do not, unless you are blind, you do! You see evil where there is none, you believe you are doing the work of the lord, not understanding the work given on to you to do. A man has a drink or two or whatever he does, it is to the lord and the lord alone. You walk believing you have the right to tell him, he is doing wrong. Do you really believe you are sinless?
Drunkenness is sin and the Party itself is not? Think again!
1Jn 2:15, 16, 17
Mat 12:34, 35, 36, 37
ThereFor forgive eachOther!
---TheSeg on 12/21/08|
What is wrong with this picture?
The Greek dichotomy between body and spirit where Christians are taught that pleasure in the body is contempt in the spirit.
G-d gave us wine and drink. Would He give us a bad thing? There is NO sin in a drink. Drunkenness as some have pointed out is the sin. Those who teach otherwise are of a deceiving spirit, of the anti-christ.
As a Messianic Jew I know, as I was taught and by culture, that there is no sin here. Why you Christians have to make a big deal about something that is meant for joy, to warm the spirit (NOT to get drunk) is a mystery to me.
---Ramon on 12/18/08|
Frank says>>My question to them is why do non-christians associate 'real christian' behavior with abstaining from these (smoking and drinking)<<
Christians judge fellow Christians for drinking or smoking.Non-Christians seldom do. .
I know many unbelievers and don't hear any of them question a person's Christianity on the basis of smoking or drinking. They know that some Christians refuse such practices, but many are skeptical about what not smoking and drinking have to do with "real" Christianity.
They would be really impressed if Christians refused to gossip, judge strangers harshly, seek attention for themselves and put their own needs first. This is unforgettable "real" Christianity.
---Donna66 on 12/18/08|
"Can Christians have a holiday party drink?"
That would depend on individual motive and/or intent.
Personally speaking, All things [not specifically prohibited by the ten commandments or Jesus] are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful and I will not be brought under the power of any. However I do embrace and adhere to this principle, "It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak." Therefore If I did "have" a drink, I would have it as discretely as possible,o)
---josef on 12/18/08|
What is your motive for drinking? Is it to get a buzz or is it to be part of the worldly crowd?
If it's to get a buzz, do an online Bible search for "drunkenness" and "drunkard." The Bible is very clear that drunkenness is a sin.
If it's to be part of the worldly crowd then read James 4:4 which says, "...don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God."
Remember: "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial" and
"always strive to keep your conscience clear before God and man."
---Steveng on 12/16/08|
What does the holiday have to do it? If it is/isn't a problem it would be the same all year round.
If it causes a weaker brother/sister to stumble, then one drink is wrong.
At my current conservative church, there are many singles who are strong christians who take just one glass on wine with special dinners. I have never seen them take more than one, and it has never caused a problem. There is also an alcoholic who joins us but drinks pop.
It will never be a problem with me because I don't like the effects of alcohol and readily stop at one drink. I suppose taking my first drink was a gamble though because I did not know the long term outcome at the time.
Throughout the year and at home alone, I do not drink.
---obewan on 12/16/08|
I am a recovering alcoholic who has no problem with believers who are not addicted having an occassional drink. I believe there are some key points for Christians who drink to be aware of and mindful of.
1. They should be very close to the Lord in the walk and devotions. They should be able to hear the Holy Spirit's leading and have a submissive spirit.
2. They should be aware of their family's history concerning alcoholism and drug addiction. There is plenty of research that shows a genetic component to alcoholism and addiction, as well as a brain chemistry commonality among such people.
---Trish9863 on 12/15/08|
Alan~ I'm sorry, I did not wish to seem like I was passing judgment on you personally. It's obvious you drink in a very limited way, and I'm sure you would be considerate not to drink in front of those who have a weakness in this area.
I just feel it is an area where all Christians should exercise extreme caution. My personal feeling when it comes to questionable matters is usually..."when in doubt, leave it out."
---Anne on 12/15/08|
Miche~ That was a very good answer, and yes, to show respect is often how we show love.
---Anne on 12/15/08|
You ask if ONE "drink" is Ok? "All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any," Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:12. If you are hung up about this subject, you are somehow under the power of alcohol. You don't have to drink it, to be under its power. We can first be enjoying the LORD, then see what *He* calls our attention to. But if we are depending on a "drink" for some need to be met, or depending on people NOT drinking . . . either way, perhaps we are under the power of alcohol, and not setting our "minds on things above." (Colossians 3:2) The Holy Spirit effects me in a beautifully wonderful way, so better than *any* pleasure can.
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/15/08|
Anne ... "But the Bible does say drunkards cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven, and I personally don't wish to make drinking alcohol under any circumstances seem like something that is to be taken rather lightly since it can often lead to deeper sin very easily"
It depends what "often" means. If 1% of those who drink alcohol become drunk, that would amount to millions of people, and that is of course millions too many. But I don't think the alcohol is to blame but their silly weakness
I have to say that I have been drinking alcohol now for 50 years, and have been drumk only once (and that was when someone slipped a tasteless spirit inot my non-alcoholic drink)
---alan_of_UK on 12/15/08|
yes, anne, you are right. This is mainly because of human fallicy and the inability to discern right and wrong or control oneself.
No, I haven't been drunk in years. To have a glass of wine with dinner, I believe is in some instances apropriate. But were I to have you and frank and some sinners who don't believe a christian should drink, then of course I would not. We are not suppose to mess up our witness to sinners, or cause our brothers and sisters to stumble in Christ. By abstaining from alcohol in this, we show Love to the sinner and to our brothers/sisters. To respect is also to show love.
---miche3754 on 12/15/08|
I am a born again christian 32 years. I came from a home where alcohol and tobacco only had health concerns associated not moral. I meet christians today who smoke and drink. They feel justfied, free, excused to do so. My question to them is why do non-christians associate 'real christian' behavior with abstaining from these. Those non-believers have no problems understanding your not drinking or smoking. They would question you as to why you would drink or smoke. It is real simple, just don't do it. We have so many options for drinking pleasure that are non-alcoholic.
---Frank on 12/15/08|
Another point on the alcohol issue. I will not debate the point. I have personal convictions and understand there are disareements regarding this subject in the church. I do understand historically wine is in the church. However, I don't believe we are discussing ceremonial rites. If you have family members who are alcoholics or are related or affected by their condition, you probably would see the significance of avoiding and abstaining from alcohol. In all of my 48 years, I have yet to see any good come out of drinking any type of alcoholic beverage. Keep it simple, just don't do it.
---Frank on 12/15/08|
Alan & Miche~ Yes, you both make sense and thanks for your views. But the Bible does say drunkards cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven, and I personally don't wish to make drinking alcohol under any circumstances seem like something that is to be taken rather lightly since it can often lead to deeper sin very easily.
The same applies with tiny steps toward gambling, or other types of addictive behavior. We need to watch ourselves very closely, and we need to watch our example before others very closely as well.
---Anne on 12/15/08|
as far as ungodly behavior, coffe, soda, and tea have Caffeine in them. They alter the mind. In some people, its good, in others its bad. I think that you should say, "if it causes YOU, the individual to commit ungodly acts, then don't drink"
Look at what Timothy posted. I agree with him. Its about OUR individual weakness and respecting our fellow Christians weakness, if they differ. If I were around Timothy knowing he can't drink then I would respect my brother and not drink. If I were hanging out with pharisee, I would certainly enjoy a glass of fine wine.
For me, alcohol isnt a weakness. So it depends on who Im around. If theyre like me, then yes. With a fellow Christian who can't then I wouldn't either.
---miche3754 on 12/15/08|
There isn't a simple yes or no answer to this question. Taking a drink is amoral - can be good or bad. If you are a recovering alcoholic, then stay clear of alcohol regardless of where you are. If you are an immature christian, then don't drink alcohol. Equally important is if you are a mature christian in the company of an immature christian at the party, think VERY carefully before drinking since you're actions can have a serious influence on that younger christian.
---Jia on 12/14/08|
Well, Anne, I have to say that my own observations are that by far the most people can drink in moderation without it bringing on ungodly behaviour.
But I suppose it is a question of how & where you have your drink ... a glass of wine with a meal at home or in a restaurant, a quiet drink in a pub with a few friends, going out to get sozzled, or drinking alone at home to drown your sorrows and forget life.
---alan_of_UK on 12/14/08|
Christians are free to do anything, but not all things are spiritually profitable.
- drinking to excess is wrong. but a social glass at a holiday meal could be acceptable. moderation is the key.
- personally i dont drink any alcohol. none of it tastes good to me.
---opalgal on 12/13/08|
This is a question that is between you and the Lord only. If you ask such question, you'll be confused and stay confused. Some say yeah go ahead it won't hurt, but others say oh Lord no it is such a sin. The best thing I can tell you is to take a drink of an alcohol drink and if your conscience condemns you, then it is wrong for YOU to drink. It your conscience doesn't bother you, then there is your answer. If it doesn't bother you then drink in moderation. Don't get drunk because that is where it becomes a sin.
---Rebecca_D on 12/12/08|
While I don't make a habit of tasting snot, Psl.104.14-15 says "God brings forth food from the earth and "wine" that gladdens the heart of man"In moderation it does just that!
---1st_cliff on 12/12/08|
We're human. When Christians are made to be afraid to do anything for fear that everything fun is sin, they began to lose their joy and are at much greater risk of turning away from the faith. There are people who will tell you that even a glass of wine with dinner will damage your spirit. Not true. A drink now and then won't kill you, nor will it send you to...well...you know.
---Robin on 12/12/08|
What exactly would be the point? Unless it's a fine wine most alcoholic beverages taste about as good as a mouthful of snot. (my opinion)
Ahh if not taste we come to the root of the question and that being SPIRITS, to get nippy if you will.
Ephesians 5:15 "be cafeful how you live" (NIV it's all I have right now), 5:18 slays the dragon completely, if you must be buzzed be buzzed in good and holy SPIRITS.
---Pharisee on 12/11/08|
Alan~ Yes, I do believe alcohol usually brings about ungodly behaviors. I asked my husband the same question, since he was an alcoholic, but he has not had a drink now in 30 plus years.
I asked him if he agreed with me that alcohol usually brings about ungodly behaviors....and he said "Yes, it turns people into jerks."
---Anne on 12/11/08|
The Bible clearly states that we are to "get drunk with the Spirit and not with wine." This does not mean that a Christian cannot drink wine, otherwise Jesus would have never turned the water to wine. I know will come as a shock to many on these blogs since many know that I am a pentecostal. But, I chose to live a pure, clean, undefiled life so I do not drink any kind of alcohol. But, it does not mean that a Christian who drinks occasionally and does not get drunk is not going to Heaven.
---SusieB on 12/11/08|
Can Christians have "a" [ONE] holy day celebration drink? Hmmmm! Moderator, I couldn't help but notice you didn't mention the type of drink, but a few bloggers readily assumed you meant alcohol. I, on the other hand, celebrate very well with non-alcoholic beverages (as many as my bladder will allow). :)
The Bible places no prohibition on drinking alcohol except for saying we should be sober minded. For Christians who can have "a" holiday drink & maintain sobriety, more power to ya! If you (like me) can't, please practice abstinence. THINK BEFORE YOU DRINK! Don't let the egg nog, etc., put you in a groggy, dangerous stupor. :/
---Leon on 12/11/08|
Anne ,,, "Usually" usually means in more cases than not.
Do you really think so? Do you have evidence?
---alan_of_UK on 12/11/08|
Many years ago now, I was witnessing to an alcoholic who later receive the Lord Jesus Christ called me up and told me so. From that day forth he never took another drink,when I ask him why he stated exactly what Timothy has stated, that he could not stop with just one drink!!!
Oh praise the Lord of this man's salvation his name is Randy and he is one of my very best friends.
---mima on 12/11/08|
Alan~ Yes, especially if you are a smaller type person or not accustomed to drinking, it can alter your state of mind and cause you to act irresponsibly, loud, unbecoming, and so forth.
---Anne on 12/10/08|
"Usually alcohol brings about ungodly behaviors."
---alan_of_UK on 12/10/08|
Yes if you do so in moderation.Drinking is not a sin. I don't think. Getting drunk is. Whatever that limit is. If you have had problems in the past with alcohol. I would say no! Once and alcoholic, always an alcoholic. Stay away from it or you can fall back into your old ways.You must decide this for yourself.
If you choose not to drink, that will be an even better choice. God expects us to make the best choices for our lives.
I would choose fruit juices,water or even a soft drink would be preferable to alcohol.
---Robyn on 12/10/08|
If you are not an alcoholic, there is no problem with an occassional drink. Scriptures are clear that we are to not be drunk. Pray about it, and seek guidance from the Holy Spirit. On this blog, you will get varied opinions. They are not fact, but individual interpretations of the scriptures. Some are based in legalistic traditions more than scriptures.
---Trish9863 on 12/10/08|
I have a history of not stopping at one drink so I have chosen in my life to avoid alcohol entirely, that is my choice for me alone. However my best research has concluded that Christians are allowed to have a drink but not get drunk. Regardless of whether or not you handle alcohol well, my advice has always been to avoid alcohol as long as your refusal is not offensive to your host. I have discovered that one can be a bad witness by both drinking and not drinking. Assess the situation, pray, and then follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.
---TIMOTHY on 12/10/08|
We don't need alcohol to enjoy an occasion. Usually alcohol brings about ungodly behaviors, and we set a bad example to others who may be struggling in their Christian walk. I don't recommend it, but I would not act like I was 'holier than thou' if I noticed people having an alcoholic beverage either. I'd personally drink some water, tea, coffee, or soda.
---Anne on 12/10/08|
Scripture doesn't teach that you can't have a drink. It teaches not to be drunk. In Deut.14 we read that the tithes are even used to have a party with strong drink. I think we are given the responsibilty to use everything properly. Even food, which is abused by many who think it's a sin to have a drink.
---john on 12/10/08|
No, a Christian should not have a holiday party drink, even egg nog if it contains alcohol. What I've done in past, where drinks are served, is just to say, "It's against my personal Chistian conviction", if asked why I'm not drinking. This way no one can argue with you about drinking, and you won't make them feel guilty if they take a drink. (Even in my years in the Navy, never felt pressure frome others if I used that phrase.) remember, you are to be a positive Christian testamoney, and someone may be watching you just to see how you will react. Also remember, you are a guest, and this is no time to "preach" about the evils of alcohol.
---wivv on 12/10/08|