Getting, being, staying saved Are works in progress. Godly works Is having faith going to services, Bible reading, praying even some fasting, witnessing etc. Matt.24 v 13.
---Lawrence on 8/2/10|
Alan you ask 'Who is closer to the Kingdom? ... those who do those things but do not recognise that they are in fact doing what Jesus commanded, .... or those "Christians" who do not do those things even though they have been taught them? '
Probably neither. Scripture says we need to accept Jesus died in our place, paying the price of our sin, and ask Him for forgiveness. It also says that when saved there are works for us to do.
So those who haven't asked for forgiveness can't, by definition, be saved. James says those who say they are Christians but have no good works are not saved.
Its a two part deal. Let us do both.
---Warwick on 6/30/09|
Donna I agree that promoting those things does not make one a Christian.
It is also clear from what a few say here that being a Christian does not necessarily mean that you will promote those things.
I agree also that often those who say most about such things are those who do least about it.
Who is closer to the Kingdom? ... those who do those things but do not recognise that they are in fact doing what Jesus commanded, .... or those "Christians" who do not do those things even though they have been taught them?
---alkan8566_of_uk on 6/29/09|
Donna, thank you very much for your impute. I will later look into their beliefs. What you gave gives me a little insight to what they teach.
What I find is that many people can be convince in so many ways. If the church has great music they go there. If they have great speakers who mention God, no matter what they are saying, they go there. If they hear a speaker speak about how we should all get along, they go there. And most of the big churches are full because they cater to what people want to hear.
Pretty soon the doctrines don't matter, Christ on the Cross does not make much difference so long as they are happy and getting alone with everyone and singing songs. Liberal to the core. What a shame.
---MarkV. on 6/29/09|
Alan of UK-- oh my goodeness, no, no ,no and no! I didn't mean that at all.
However, I believe that promoting "mercy and justice, compassion, anti-discrimination, environmental issues, and ways to address poverty" doesn't make one a Christian....even if you know that Jesus taught these things.
(I have learned, incidentally, from experience, that those who proclaim these goals the loudest are not neccessarily the ones who do them)
---Donna66 on 6/28/09|
Here's another quote from their literature:
"Progressive Christianity casts a very broad tent. All people are welcome as affiliates..... to participate in our community and worship life without insisting that they become like us in order to be acceptable (including but not limited to): believers and agnostics, conventional Christians and questioning skeptics, women and men, those of all sexual orientations and gender identities, those of all races and cultures... Most affiliates probably view religious belief as a process -- a searching for truth rather than establishing truth. Most are probably liberal Christians or post-Christians who stress justice and tolerance above creedal beliefs.
---Donna66 on 6/28/09|
Here's more: (by Ian Lawton)". There is something larger than self, family, tribe and nation. It matters less what we call it, i.e. God, Kosmos, Higher Power, Universal Spirit,..., and matters more that we are expanding our circles of care and compassion.
Every moment contains deaths and rebirths. It matters less if we call that repentance and being born again, and matters more that we are alive to the awakening of each moment
Jesus' resurrection was a real experience to early Christians, and rebirth is a reality of human existence. It matters less if Jesus' resurrection was literal and physical than whether we dwell in endless possibility and inspire others to the same optimism.
---Donna66 on 6/28/09|
Donna, what else do you know about
"Progressive Christianity?" Can you give me more examples if you have them? I am sure I could take the time to look them up but just wanted to know what you know.
I went to a funeral service for a sister who lived accross the street from my house. The church services were at a very big church called, "Progressive Community Church" They really didn't read much from Scripture for the service, it was mostly preaching about the dead and where they are at. I had never heard of that church before. And now that I hear you speaking about Progressive maybe this church is one of those you mentioned.
---MarkV. on 6/28/09|
Donna ... Are you saying that Christians who promote "mercy and justice, compassion, anti-discrimination, environmental issues, and ways to address poverty" are misguided?
Do you see those things as being irrelevant?
Do you think that Jesus did not really mean "love your neighbour"?
Was Jesus joking when he said we should feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and visit those in prison?
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/27/09|
Alan of UK ---
I'm not sure what motivates "Progressive Christions". Secular Progressives have a political agenda in most countries, and Progressive Christians may share that. Or perhaps it's just an attempt to rebel against traditional Christianity and look righteous doing it.
Despite the noble sounding goals, there seems to be little actual interest in the nature of God and His relationship to men. It makes one wonder just what these people are actually looking for?
---Donna66 on 6/26/09|
Timothy, "Core themes and concepts"
The evolution of theological thought is an interesting topic.
The teachings of Christ and the apostles were/are clear and straightforward. Spoken and then recorded in the common (Koine) Greek of the day and, of course, inspired by God. They were understandable to children and the elderly, the highly educated and the humble fisherman.
The influence of Greek philosophy along with the heavy hand of the Roman government (when Christianity went from being violently persecuted to being the State religion almost over night) resulted in many "core themes and concepts" that would be foreign to first century Christians.
The mysterious trinity doctrine is one of them.
---scott on 6/26/09|
Donna ... I had never before heard of "progressive Christianity"
Tammy Schaeffer's first paragraph describing its core values may be accurate.
However, his second paragraph is totally misplaced.
The promotion of "mercy and justice, compassion, anti-discrimination, environmental issues, and ways to address poverty" spring directly from Jesus, and His command to love our neighbour, and God's command via Adam to care for the world.
TS perhaps is one of those who twist fundamentalism to justify personal corporate and national selfishness?
---alan8566_of_UK on 6/26/09|
What does the Progressive Movement teach?
From an article on Progressive Christianity
(by Tammy Schaefer)
" Core beliefs include the belief that Jesus was a prophet whose divinity is one in which all people share, as Sons and Daughters of God, and a belief that Christians disillusioned with their churches should not abandon Christianity but reinterpret, refashion, and reinvent their religious traditions and iconography."
"This leads progressive Christians to promote mercy and justice, compassion, anti-discrimination, environmental issues, and ways to address poverty."
ME? I prefer knowing Jesus as a SAVIOR (not prophet) and have no desire to "reinterpret" the Bible.
---Donna66 on 6/25/09|
Progressive Christianity is FALSE doctrine, heresy, blasphemy, just to name a few. In other words it is NOT Christianity, but a dangerous doctrine. What is sad, is that a lot of "Christians" are following this, and if they don't repent and turn away from this nonsence, will more than likly end up in Hell for following it.
---Leslie on 6/25/09|
I always viewed the "Progressive Church" movement as in line with the "Emerging Church" movement. It is basically a rejection of the concept that Evangelicals must be defined by one particular political party and a replacement of that with New Testament church ideas. There is a focus on the ministry of Jesus rather than a set of defining rules. The "Progressive Church" to some is a throwback to the original NT house churches or even the idea that people shared all things in common. There is a focus on providing material support to the poor and those in need for example, rather than obsession with divisions of doctrine.
---obewan on 6/25/09|
Scott: I agree that the body of Christ is hard to quantify at the moment which would include core tenants. I can't remember another time in my thirty years of being a Christian this level of debate about "core themes and concepts". I would still have to argue that if it came to a vote the Trinity concept would win decidedly however is that the best way to agree upon doctrine? I'm not 100% sure that the body of Christ will ever be in full agreement about all of the Biblical concepts. For now, I will stick with the Trinity school of thought but I apprecaite our discussions as iron truly sharpens iron.
---TIMOTHY on 6/25/09|
While there are many groups and individuals today who classify themselves as "Progressive Christians" I would suggest that it is thinking that predates the 60s by about 1,800 years.
Paul warned about 'Wolves enter[ing] in among you...speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.' Acts 20:29, 30
"Progressive" Christians today make the same fundamental mistake today that they did in Paul's day- to reject the word of God as inspired, accurate, reliable and inerrant.
While you are of the opinion that the trinity doctrine is a "core" tenet, I would argue that it is a post 1st century and extra-biblical teaching...one that Paul warned against.
---scott on 6/25/09|
My thoughts are either you is or you ain't....
When we accept the Lord we get the whole Lord not part with some coming later.
The whole problem is that the Lord doesn't get all of us. We hold back too much. I guess that is because we think we know more than He does.
It is one thing to be saved. It is another thing to be separate. That is separating ourselves unto the Lord for HIs purpose.
Do we really realize how many people turn away from the Lord because He doesn't fit into our program at the time.
---Elder on 6/24/09|
This is a rebirth of the 60's Hippie movement that is gaining popularity on the Obama feel good train. This movement will attempt to discredit the Bible, remove the deity of Jesus, make traditional (or as they call them fundamentalist) Christians look like out of touch relics, and will try to give Jesus a 21st century make over. This is a political group with a social agenda that has nothing to do with God or religion. Like Satan, they will be well rehearsed on Bible versus but will lack the understanding to employ them correctly. In short, they are a cult.
---TIMOTHY on 6/24/09|
I never heard of a Progressive Christianity movement.
---eric1968 on 6/24/09|