Is God Cruel And Mean
Jesus said love your enemy. If those who do not accept Christ in their lifetime are tortured eternally, does it mean God does not love His enemies, only His friends, and thus we who love our enemies are kinder than God?
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---Geraldine on 7/8/09
Helpful Blog Vote (15)
1Cliff, God never changes, He is the same yesterday, today and forever. His nature or attributes never change. So to say He stops knowing is not true at all. And since He is Omniscient, He knows all things and never learns. If He stopped knowing He would not be all knowing. God is Spirit and does not have emotions as humans. God expressess Himself as if He were human to express to us in human terms how He feels about sin and our disobedience. And just because He knows all things does not mean He created sin. He permitted sin to enter the world but was not a part of creating it. God knew if He gave man freedom they would choose sin. That is why Jesus was forknown as a sacrifice for sin from the foundations of the world.
---MarkV. on 7/22/09|
Leon, What's "outlandish??"
Why not just answer my simple questions instead of beating on me??
If you can't I will understand , no problem!
---1st_cliff on 7/21/09|
Cliff and Leon--I am trusting that Christian love is behind your words! Satan wants to make you enemies of each other. Don't give him satisfaction.
---Geraldine on 7/21/09|
With you Cliff, it's always something outlandish. :) You miss the point. The fact of the matter is God is Creator. He always has been & will always be Creator. In the process of creating free-will beings like us, there are stages of development He carries us thru (allows us to experience) so we may grow to His optimum desired maturity. Because God has created us as free-will beings, we can choose to obey & be nurtured by His word & grow healthily. Or, we can choose to feed on growth stunting & deforming lies that'll cause one to ultimately be pruned from the ture vine. (Jn. 15:1-17)
Don't be a blind man sitting in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there Cliff. You'll ultimately burn with disappointment.
---Leon on 7/21/09|
religion teaches its own traditions Mark 7:7 ...those who cling to religion do not and cannot comprehend this verse
religion teaches about a "god" who tortures for eternity to pervert Holy Word of God
NOTHING in Gods Word teaches about a sadistic monster who wants to torture forever more
Dante was a genius and the deception is from the father of lies
The Father in heaven is mercy beyond anything mankind could comprehend ...easy to understand when christianity today follows religion NOT Gods Holy Word
---Rhonda on 7/21/09|
Samuel, you said,
"One of the reasons many people do not believe in GOD is the doctrine of eternal torment."
They don't believe in God because they have no faith in Christ. That is the only reason. The lost have no understanding about the Bible because they don't have the Spirit to bring light to it.
Yet It is the Christians who have trouble with the doctrine. Just like it is the Christains who have trouble whether they can lose salvation or not, or who saved them.
---MarkV. on 7/20/09|
Leon, Yes I would be satisfied if you come up with something concrete from the bible!
like you cite Luke 16 the "parable" of the R M & Lazarus as tho it was a real happening ! Have you studied it?
What horrible thing did the R M do to send him to the flames??
What righteous thing did Lazarus do to merritt him heaven??
Because you don't understand the parable ,you can't answer these questions!
Look up "spirit" in the Concordance,it says air, breath! Luke 23.46.
---1st_cliff on 7/20/09|
Absolutely true Jack. It's incredible the numbers of people who're blinded to this fact.
---Leon on 7/20/09|
Leon et al: You obviously don't believe that God can "choose not to know" if He so wills.
Would He have Gen 6.6 " the Lord was grieved that He had made man on the earth" if He "foreknew" the outcome??
To say that He knew before they were created is to make God a liar or worse "complicit" in this whole sinful situation!
Given "free will" He does not know what you will do. YOU choose!
Why did he create satan if He foreknew??? Makes Him "responsible" NO NO NO!
---1st_cliff on 7/20/09|
One of the reasons many people do not believe in GOD is the doctrine of eternal torment. As pointed out in this question it make GOD a monster.
Yet the Bible teaches the wages of sin is death not eternal torture. The punishment for sin is eternal.
---Samuel on 7/20/09|
The torture referred to in the scripture noted is the terrible disappointment of being eternally separated from your creator who
loves you more than you can possibly imagine.
Because you do not accept Christ and His love for you, He will not force you to accept His love.
---Jack on 7/20/09|
Cliff, you cant really compare what was going on in the garden of eden before adam sinned. All the animals got along with each other, adam could sit next to lions without being harmed.
Adam would have lived forever phyically if he didnt sin. But God gives everyone there own will to chose. And God knew that Adam would sin. He knew that before he created the universe. He also knew all of us before he created the universe.
And adam did live over 800 years.. so things were a lot different then.
It didnt even rain until Noah came on the scene
---batieste on 7/20/09|
1 Cliff, here is the way I see it, anything that has to do with the spiritual man, the one born of the Spirit, you do not believe. So when Leon answers about the Spiritual man, you insist there is no spirit in the believer. You speak only of the physical body. What that tells us is that you are not born of the spirit, why? Because, "The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned" 1 Cor. 2:14.
You also said, when God created Adam He did not intend for him to die. Which imply's that God did not know he would die. Not possible because God is Omniscent, knowing all.
---MarkV. on 7/20/09|
"When God created Adam[,] He didn't ever intend for Adam to die!"?
You're sorta right cliff. God certainly didn't want Adam...to die. But, God did give Adam free-will to choose. God knew what Adam would do & the rest is History.
You persist in your fantasy about the physical body only. Do you really believe that's all man is?
"Just a couple of question," would be two (2) Cliff. :) Okay, not that you're going to be satisfied (I KNOW you won't), but here goes:
#1 Lk. 16:22-23, 2 Cor. 5:1-10.
#2 Gen. 2:7, Lk. 23:46.
Your sin will burn in your consciousness one day unless you repent Cliff.
---Leon on 7/19/09|
Leon, Permit me to point out one flaw with your theory,
When God created Adam He didn't ever intend for Adam to die!
Cast out of Eden- Gen.2.22 "lest he eat of the tree of life and live forever..."
Every day your body sheds millions of cells,also regains millions ,because of the curse,at a given age we loose more than we gain 'till old age causes our death!
So the body was never a "temporary" tent!
---1st_cliff on 7/19/09|
Leon, Just a couple of questions,
#1 Where does the bible say "the soul leaves the body immediately at death"?
#2 Where does the bible say "we are spirits"?
#3 Should the bible have said "Let us make SPIRITS in our image"? and "Adam became a living SPIRIT"?
#4 Where does scripture say "when you're dead you're still alive"? Is there any such thing as death? (has it never existed?)
#5 Do you have a secret scripture that says "only the body dies"?
---1st_cliff on 7/17/09|
Cliff: We are spirits. We all live in physical bodies & have individual souls (will, emotions & intellect). That's what makes you uniquely you, etc.
Your description only deals with the physical body & brain of a person. The brain is just the tent in which the soul (will, emotions & intellect: personal cognitive awareness existing inside the brain) is temporarily housed. The SOUL immediately leaves the physical body at death. The brain (tent) has served it's purpose, is no longer necessary & therefore is dead.
When a person dies, his/her spirit man (with soul intact) is either absent from the physical body & present with the Lord or in hell.
---Leon on 7/17/09|
The Bible Does not say that God loves His enemies. God's people are suppose to be above the wicked man in this love thing, because, the wicked man only loves those people who loves them. Ofcourse, godly love must come, springs up, from God, inside of you. Now, the answer to your last question. God hates SIN. "A God who will not punish sin is no God at all"...If you are saved God will correct, chasten, and punish, but He also forgives through His Blood. If you die in your sins without forgiveness> Hell awaits. Note: God will punish His people for their sins. But as soon as you ask God to forgive you, [no time to get into pride] God will began to lift you back up into rightness with Him. This is how it seems to work with me!
---catherine on 7/17/09|
Geraldine,your confusing kindness,or hospitality with arighteous Gods judgement of those who tresspass,or disobey his word. God loves everyone,what he hates is sin.Have you ever heard the phrase,hate the sin,not the sinner?John 3-16 says for God so loved the world that he sent his son.other scripture tells of how ,while we were yet sinners christ died for us.So God knowing we deserved nothing,because of our sin still chose to die for us,to take my place,your place,eveyons place,all of our sin upon himself,all of the sin of the world for all time.SO WHO WAS REALLY BEING TREATED BADLY?WE TREAT GOD BAD. GOD LOVES,WE ARE THE MOODY ONES NOT HIM.
---tom2 on 7/17/09|
Jesus said love your enemy. If those who do not accept Christ in their lifetime are tortured eternally, does it mean God does not love His enemies, only His friends, and thus we who love our enemies are kinder than God?
Geraldine, The Bible Says..For God so loved the world He GAVE His only Begotten Son. There is no greater Love than this.
Geraldine, based on the above TRUTH, people will be eternally separated from God because THEY rejected God's Love,
We His Church, lay down our lives for others...this is Christ in us to a lost world. We do love as God loved! Well, some of us.
Only those who believe God predestined some to hell, would never lay their life down for anyone! They just don't get it!
---kathr4453 on 7/16/09|
Leon, When you're answering these blogs your thinking processes go into action,repenting or praising all comes from your brain (persons with brain damage can't do this simple task)
In the mortuary they do a "post mortem" (autopsy) they examine the brain that is still there, albeit dead!
Without this live piece of your body you can't feel remorse,elation, sadness or anything. It does not leave the body now does it! IT,like the rest of you, must wait for a resurrection! Then Joy will abound!
---1st_cliff on 7/16/09|
Mark ... It is probably sunny in California, and the wine growers are happy because it is ripening the grapes. Here it is is raining fiercely nd our farmers are unhappy, because the swelling grain is being beaten onto the ground.
In Central Africa, they are dying because there is too much sun, and no rain.
To me and you, sun is good, to the African, it is bad.
But we can ubderstand why we disagree.
You accuse me of attacking you. But I am not ... I am just explaining my different perspective ... there is nothing personal in our disagreement, except you make it so.
There is no anger, except yours, except perhaps I am hurt when you misrepresent me, but God does gets angry with those who bear false witness.
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/16/09|
Cliff: I'm glad you're not angry on my account. :)
I don't recall my ever attributing sadistic behaviour to God. I have repeatedly said I believe the thoughts of people in hell burn & torment (torture) them with the knowledge their rejection of God has resulted in their being eternally separated from Him. You think the parable of the rich man & Lazarus is just a story Jesus made up to make some sort of moral point. I believe Jesus was describing reality. Have you ever had a burning regret about something you did? I have... :)
I don't see how hellfire corresponds with Jer. 32:35 since the people in Jeremiah's time were performing the ungodly practice of infant human sacrifice to the pagan god Molech.
---Leon on 7/16/09|
Alan, you just don't know how I wish it was also so, but you don't know how your responses give me no hope at all. If you could question things without making remarks. It would be great. You and I have a lot in common. You lost your wife and so did I. You get on line and so do I. But you and I have a different purpose. I am here to stand for the Lord. For His right to rule His creation anyway He so pleases. He does not need my help. But my passion pushes me to do just that now that I have the time. I fight for God, His Word, His Son and His genuine children who will never be lost.
I know speaking for God will get me in a lot of trouble. Never thought it would be easy. Peace to you
---MarkV. on 7/15/09|
Leon, You know by now that I'm not an angry person,but I do get "righteously indignant" when those who are supposed to be walking the Christian walk attribute all sorts of sadistic behaviour to our loving God!
Actually putting humans in a fire "literally" never crossed His mind Jer.32.35. He called it "detestable"
---1st_cliff on 7/15/09|
Alan, if that is the case as you explained it, why is not a good day when I speak for the right of God to do with His creation what He so desires? It seems to get you going and angry because you come out with some comments about me as you did yesterday. You say, "disagreements is ok" it doesn't seem to be okay with you. You also said, "They will disagree about the weather ... but neither is lying. They can explain to each other, without anger, the reasons for their different view of hot sunny weather."
Why is it not sunny in the U.K. when it is sunny here in California? Is it the Sun is different in the U.K. then here? I know, it is a different time of the day. Again I am wrong.
---MarkV. on 7/15/09|
MarkV At least I wish it could be so, although your response on naother blog gives me little hope
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/15/09|
"Your God is a Sadist...?!
Why do you say that Cliff? If your god is loving...why are you so hostile? Are you really being truth (reality) led by the Holy Spirit in understanding, knowledge & wisdom? When did I say anything about hell being an incinerator.
I'm just asking questions Cliff, trying to understand why you're so angry & confused. Peace. :)
---Leon on 7/15/09|
Was it a mean and cruel God that forced adam and eve from the garden?Or was it a just and righteous God who judged them for their trespass?We are all accountable To God for our decisions,and we will all reap what we sow. But as usual the nature of the flesh is when what we want,or perceive as UNCOMFORTABLE comes into our lives,more often than not,directly related to decisions we have made,we by nature look for someone to blame. And OH MY ISN,T GOD HANDY,when we just cant seem to find a person to blame,cause God forbid we blame ourselves.
---tom2 on 7/15/09|
Hi, MarkV ... Misunderstandings happen, and when it happenes we can say ... "Actually this is what I meant" ... no anger.
Diasagreement is OK.
Is hot sunny weather good or bad?
To the perpetual holidaymaker, it will always be good.
To the farmer who wants his crops to ripen it is good.
To the farmer in another part of the world who needs an end to the drought, hot sun will be bad.
They will disagree about the weather ... but neither is lying. They can explain to each other, without anger, the reasons for their different view of hot sunny weather.
Same with our discussions here.
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/15/09|
Leon, *when one dies that's it?* You left out one very important fact--"resurrection"
If you don't die you can't be resurrected!
Your God is a Sadist, mine is a loving ,merciful,just creator!
He did not create this "literal" incinerator for brutal inhumane torture of humans.
You can't tell the difference between a parable and reality! You need HS guidance!
With all your getting get understanding.
---1st_cliff on 7/14/09|
Alan, actually you have misunderstood me again. I am sorry you did. I wish you would not but anyone can make a mistake. I made a mistake again. Sorry for my mistake. I keep saying it will not happen again and it does.
I guess disagreeing with me again is not finding fault with my answer. Wonder why you didn't agree? Was my answer false or untrue? Something had to be wrong. Wrong, faulty, not good, false, which phrase or word could I have used? My English is not good as yours. But my Spanish is great, maybe next time I will answer you in Spanish so that I don't make any mistakes. I do speak in different tongues.
---MarkV. on 7/14/09|
Mark, you accuse me of turning you comment round. Please note I did not quote, I said "something like". I had interpreted what you said, on another blog, as meaning that. Maybe I interpreted it wrongly, but that should result in a correction, not an accusation.
Why not say: "Actually Alan you have misunderstood me" I've suggested this before.
You say "You somehow have to find fault with an answer" NO !! If I disagree with you, or find it difficult to understand your point, it is honest to say so ... it is not "finding fault".
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/14/09|
Cliff: Who is it that's doing this malicious beating, sadistic laughing & relentless torturing you're ranting about? God doesn't takes pleasure in nor does He inflict punishment on lost people. Their torments are from being separated from God & the personal realization they blew it forever. That's their punishment!
As a Christian, I agree with what the Bible says, i.e., "the wages of sin is death." Also, the parable of the rich man & Lazarus is true. There is soul consciousness after the death of the body. But, you've made it clear, you think when one dies that's it. We're dead as door knobs & our soul vanishes into oblivion -- end of story. Believe as you will, the Bible doesn't teach that.
---Leon on 7/14/09|
1st cliff - Could it be that Satan is behind urging this false picturing of God as vicious and torturing? I am beginning to see Satan as the source of all that is deceitful, unloving, and otherwise negative. Maybe when harsh, negative, things arise, we should never fault God or one of his children, but Satan, who started his cruel and mean activity with mankind in the Garden of Eden. Let's say it together: "Damn you, Satan!"
---Geraldine on 7/14/09|
Geraldine, It really scares me that people who maskarede as Christian promote this "God defaming doctrine" to satisfy some deep psychological malady.
Scripture states "wages of sin is death"
Somehow not good enough for these psychos.
Old spaghetti westerns used to say "Hangin's too good for this varmint"
Death's too easy for them, have to beat them, day after day after day...,then when they're sorry, laugh in their face and keep beating them!
Maybe in mythology, but not my loving God!
Do you "put down" a vicious dog,or do you torture it???
---1st_cliff on 7/13/09|
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Eric, to answer your question on 7/12, Father tortures no one.
The final judgment is the destruction of the wicked, the second death. See> Psa. 92:7>37:38>103:15,16
As to why the Father allows their wickedness. They are used of Him to bring up and out of His children all that is within us for our examination, that we may repent of that which is not of Him. See> Isa.54:16>1Pe 2:19>Pro 16:4
The torment of the wicked, that will last for the duration of this current earth age, will be the eventual realization that they have forsaken and forfeited the beauty and awesomeness of eternal life prepared of the Father for those who love Him, simply because they rejected the gift of the atoning sacrifice of His Son.
---Josef on 7/13/09|
"...who could with his whole heart love a God who knew from the very beginning the vast majority of people...would end up...in hell forever, & just let it happen?"
Eric: That's not the real God of the Bible. "From the beginning", God has made a way of salvation for us -- anyone down thru the ages choosing to believe Him. (Gen.-Rev.) Because of their sin, unbelievers are tormented (tortured) by their own minds in hell. They regret not believing & serving God. They remember their lives & loved ones on earth. Like the nation Israel wandered in the desert for 40 years, I suspect lost souls thirst & wander forever in hell.
Who's fault is that Eric -- theirs or God's?
---Leon on 7/13/09|
Alan, I like how you turned my comment around, You said that I quoted, "Praying for love ones is selfish and not of God and is therefore sinful." Let me correct you Alan I never said that at all. I never said praying for someone we love is not of God. God wants us to pray for everyone. So please you didn't have to put words in my quotes.
And on this blog, I said it was ok to disagree. It was my opinion on the word love which is different then yours. I was not trying to convince you to change are to accept my answer or you would die. It was just my answer. Period.
You somehow have to find fault with an answer.
---MarkV. on 7/12/09|
If someone handed you a winning lottery ticket and you lost it, would you say the giver was cruel ? What if it was too inconvenient for you to drag yourself to the location where you could cash in the winning ticket, would you say the giver was cruel ? What if you could not believe that the ticket was a winner (although it was), would you say the giver was cruel or mean ?
If you had to pay $20 for the winning ticket would you consider it cruel to have to pay ? Even if you had to pay everything you owned, would you consider it to be cruel if the winning ticket was worth thousands of times more ?
Likewise, how can God's actions be considered cruel? No matter the cost to us for following Him, the reward will be infinitely greater.
---Dan1724 on 7/12/09|
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MarkV ... What you say is true ... but it is more relevant to another blog, where you said something like "praying for our loved ones is selfish and not of God and is therefore sinful" (I don't agree with that but it is not for this blog)
But that is not the discussion here ... we are here talking about Jesus' instruction to love our enemies. What you have now said does not alter my view that we are to love and forgive (an un limited number of times) those who hurt us.
---alan_8566_of_uk on 7/12/09|
My question is, then, who could with his whole heart love a God who knew from the very beginning that the vast majority of people who ever lived would not become Christians and would end up tortured in hell forever, and just lets it happen? But I don't think God is like that. I'm sorry so many of y'all do.
---eric1968 on 7/12/09|
I know that you have received a measure of reprimand for your recent comment, but I think that your statement has a reasonableness about it. And if I may suggest a probable next step, it might be a serious consideration of the character of God and how consistent with that character is your comment.
---Janze on 7/12/09|
Alan, it ok to disagree.
Here is why I believe what I do. Biblical love is self-sacrificing service in behalf of one who is in need. When the Bible talks about loveing one another it is not just talking about feeling emotional about people, in a kind of an earthly expression of affection, or even in a godly expression of affection. Its talking more about self-sacrificing, "God so loved the world that He what? That He felt emotional? No- That He gave His beloved Son for all" And we are to do good to all men, but expecially to those of the household of faith, showing them the love that we have for them.
---MarkV. on 7/12/09|
there are no hard questions,or answers. Jesus has come and died and taken away all of them.He is the answer.The only question now is will you believe in him?Nothing else matters NOTHING.
---tom2 on 7/12/09|
jesus actually said ,what profit have you if you love only those that love you?do you love a sinner?God does he sent his son to die for us while we were yet sinners.jesus said to love your enemies,and to pray for them who would DESPITEFULLY USE YOU AND PERSECUTE YOU,sounds like we are to love people you purposefully attempt to hurt us to me.
---tom2 on 7/11/09|
Father has no enemies among Humans. We simply "were once alienated and enemies in [our own] mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present [us] holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever 'believeth'-relies on, adheres to, depends upon, and trust-in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. God exibited His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Greater love hath no man than this."
---Josef on 7/12/09|
"You picture a person repenting [too late] in Hell, a horrible scene..." 7/10
Geraldine: It's not my picture.:) God graphically shows hell, in Luke 16:19-31, to warn us of the dire consequences of unrepented sin. People in hell get what they wanted on earth, i.e., their way minus a beneficial relationship to God. But, after opening their eyes in hell they change their mind (repent) -- too late!
God isn't cruel. He is just & holy! Those who reject Him bring judgment upon themselves & forfeit all the benefits.
God's "loving answer for that" (torment in hell) is for us to believe Him & repent "NOW", while we yet live on earth. When we die, it's too late!
---Leon on 7/11/09|
"Leon, blasphemy is in the ear of the listener" No ... blasphemy is in the intention of the speaker
But you are right "If asking hard questions is blasphemy, then I am guilty. If our God can't take questioning, he isn't worth our time"
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/11/09|
"If God created humanity knowing from the beginning that most would reject him & would burn in hell forever, then God is not only cruel but stupid & wasteful as well." 7/8/09
Eric: Your statement wasn't a "hard question". Hard questions are quite acceptable -- God can handle them. The way it works is, you ask the question then wait to receive God's answer. But, if you're not willing to give God a hearing (reject His reply) then your question is frivolous.
Who are you to accuse & judge God? By saying "if" you imply you don't know. But, you're willing to arrogantly curse God without facts to back your accusations? Yes, it's blasphemy & very dangerous for you. Repent!!!
---Leon on 7/11/09|
Alan, its ok to disagree.
I believe biblical love is self-sacrificing. I don't believe that Biblical love is an emotion--necessarily. Biblical love is self-sacrificing service in behalf of one who is in need. When the Bible talks about loving one another it is not just talking about feeling emotional about people in a kind of an earthly expression of affection, or even in a godly expression of affection. It's talking more about self-sacrificing service," "God so loved the world that He. . . ." What? "That He felt emotional?" No--"That He gave His life for all. And we are to do good to all men, but especially to those of the household of faith, showing them the love that we have for them.
---MarkV. on 7/11/09|
Leon, blasphemy is in the ear of the listener. If asking hard questions is blasphemy, then I am guilty. If your god can't take questioning, he isn't worth your time.
---eric1968 on 7/10/09|
Mark ... I agree with your last paragraph, but have to defend my original statement : "When we are told to love our enemies, that includes those who have hurt us, and might still be deliberately hurting us."
As well as the general loving of mankind mentioned in your second paragraph, Jesus did say we should love our enemies ... and our enemies are those who hurt us.
And more specifically, why would He have told us that we should forgive not just once or seven times, but 70 times 7 (which I interprest as meaning an unlimited number of times) ?
By loving, He of course did not mean going out and hugging them!
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/10/09|
No, God can't be cruel and mean and be holy, he is only sovereign.
Cruel and mean suggests that God is somehow accountable to us.
A. How could God be cruel to someone who doesn't deserve anything?
B. How could God be mean and to the undeserving be long suffering and not willing that any should perish?
C. How could God be cruel and mean and send his only son to be murdered and then offer the murderers eternal life.
---larry on 7/10/09|
JANZE- Thank you for the Scriptures. To me, they show the immenseness of Gods power and love and majesty. I am moving toward realizing God gives us in the Word a clear picture of our human situation, our free will, and how to solve it, but there may be things not written that involve his equal treatment of his children. LEON-You picture a person repenting in Hell, a horrible scene, and I live in trust that God has a loving answer for that.
---Geraldine on 7/10/09|
Geraldine, When Jesus said love your enemy, I believe He was teh PERFECT model of that LOVE when from the Cross, when He said, Father forgive them for they know not what they do.
ONE way we are conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, and by the way, being conformed to the Image of Jesus Christ is to be conformed to His death..**Phil 3** as well as to, Have this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who became obedient unto death, even death of a Cross. Well we do know we are not little Jesus dying for someone's sin here..
It simply means when we get out of the way( humble ourselves)...God's LOVE to the unlovely can be manifest...a supernatural LOVE..not a human love.
---kathr4453 on 7/10/09|
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I have to disagree with Alan remark that,
"When we are told to love our enemies, that includes those who have hurt us, and might still be deliberately hurting us."
Jesus remarks were not intended for us to love those who are hurting us and our families. It is to say, love mankind in general, be of good shear, and help those who are in need. Give to the poor and preach in the prisons.
I am sure he is not saying to us to love murderers who kill children and others. That would be impossible and He would know that. Jesus loved the world, that is mankind, but did not love the wicked, and most certainly the pharisees, called them vipers.
---MarkV. on 7/10/09|
It isn't that God does not Love His enemies, but that His enemies do not love Him : ergo, keep His Word....and we're unable to be more Kind, Gentle, Patient, Just, etc than our Heavenly Father, who is no respecter of person.
Christ isn't received through the fear of eternal torture, because God has not given us the spirit of fear but of Power, Love, & a Sound Mind.
God's Children know & Believe He is Love(John 3:16-20,1John 4:16). It's by the Love of God's Graces that all our needs are supplied according to His Riches & Glory in Christ Jesus and God's Perfect Love casteth out the torment of fear : so that we, by Christ Jesus, will be strengthened in all things to keep our Trust & Hopes of Faith in Him.
---Shawn.M.T on 7/10/09|
You have asked an important question. The truth is, the way that many professed christians behave and portray god, lead to the question you ask.
Here are two scriptures: Isaiah 54:10 and Psalm 103: 10-17. I love to know what you think. Janze4639
---Janze on 7/10/09|
No. God is perfect, the very author of Holiness. If God was not loving, none of us, with our inherent weakness and corruption, could be perfect enough for Heaven.
But God has made a way for us to be deemed righteous without compromising His standard of Holiness. (Rom 5:8-10) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
God goes to remarkable lengths to seek out
those who reject Him. His message?--
"[God]hath made Him [Jesus] to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.(2Cr 5:21)
AND something we CAN do:
Act 16:31... Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved...
---Donna66 on 7/9/09|
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Geraldine: Your question is a good one. :)
First, unbelievers who die & go to hell aren't "tortured" by God. They're "tormented" by their own thoughts & burn in awareness of the eternal consequences they face for foolish, wasted lives on earth. (Lk. 16:19) They agonize (burn) in the knowledge of being forever separated from God & His abundant blessings --, e.g., water -- all the things they took for granted while alive. They have a burning desire to make amends, but, it's too late.
No, God plays no favorites. (Acts 10:34, Ro. 2:11) Yet, He does things we can't possibly understand. (Is. 55:9, Phil. 4:7) God knows us better than we know ourselves. (1 Sam. 16:7)
---Leon on 7/10/09|
Leon, your comment "Repent before it's too late" raises another question about damnation: Some people die very young, and some much older, so the older ones have more time to decide to accept Christ. Is God "playing favorites" in this?
---Geraldine on 7/9/09|
I appreciate all your comments, even though most see my question as foolish. I am simply searching, and you are helping. I want to be sure that my accepting Christ many years ago was not from fear of eternal torture but from faith and gratitude.
---Geraldine on 7/9/09|
God is JUST, NOT mean. God is also the Judge of the universe. When God sends people to Hell, it is because He is oporating in justice. God wishes that ALL people would be saved and NONE would go to Hell. We as humans CHOOSE Hell, when we do not do things God's way (sin) or don't accept Jesus. If you were convicted of murder in a court, the judge if He is good will punish your behavior by putting you in jail. God is the same way - sin MUST be punished if God is good and just. Yes, Jesus is our payment for sin, but if we do NOT accept Him or what He did on the cross, we must pay the price of being punished ourselves.
---Leslie on 7/9/09|
Why would you ask such a question as this? We are not kinder than God if we love our enemies. God is the righteous judge. If He did not destroy the evil ones that are His enemies, they would make life hell for those who belong to God. Don't ever think God is not as good as you - you might go to hell.
---Betty on 7/9/09|
Eric: Loving, kind & patient God allows you to raise hell by blaspheming Him. Yet, you're still alive -- still have breath in your body. God loves you & wants you to come to the knowledge of His truth -- to know Him. Opinions deadend.
God is holy. In your unregenerated sin condition you're unholy & unfit to live eternally in His presence. From the beginning, humanity has had God-given free will to choose. The Lord forces no one to love Him. It wouldn't be love if He did.
Only you can send yourself to hell by rejecting God, e.g., calling Him stupid & wasteful. You sound like a very young person. But know this, you can die before you take your next breath. Repent before it's to late!
---Leon on 7/9/09|
God is not torturing anyone, free will is. If someone goes to the pit for eternity then that is their choice, they had their chance to be helped by God but denied him. If you can't do the time then don't do the crime. God is fair and just, nobody will go to hell on a technicality. Everyone that ends up in hell will have deserved the sentence.
---TIMOTHY on 7/9/09|
Yes, if you dont take the time to know him, you will see him this way! But, if you take the time, in your heart, really trying to understand his word, what are all the things in his word. You will befriend the lord, in this you will befriend God. Loving ones brother as one self, is the law and the prophets.
I guest, what I am try to say. Loving your brother as yourself is just as impossible as trying to keep the Ten Commandments! I see it as, its not that we cant, its more like we wont. Funny, it seems like such a simple thing to, right! Love everyone! But, this world wont let you!
Thank God for forgiveness!
God Bless You
---TheSeg on 7/9/09|
Geraldine, obviously you're not reading your bible.
It is written: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son, etc., God loves the World.
In 1st Peter it says, "He wishes that none should perish."
In Matthew He tells us to forgive and it shall be forgiven you.
You've got things twisted - How do we know who accepts Jesus into their heart? Do yo know everyone who has? who hasn't? It's not for you to judge who has and who hasn't. Jesus said the harlots and the lawyers will get into heaven before the Pharisees. God loves EVERYONE - we are not kinder than God - the Heart is the most deceitful above all things per Jeremiah.
---anon on 7/9/09|
No Geraldine God is not cruel and mean, you see Jesus pointed out a truth in the sermon on the mount that many seem to over look. David caught it in his many sorrowful rants in the psalms as he asked why the wicked were allowed to prosper.
God has loved them, and that is why Jesus can command us to perfect our love because the father has loved them, blessed them, and reached out to them all their lives. The context of the following verse comes on the heels of Jesus teaching to love all people equally. (for those who'd criticize me in this Satan was the first false teacher, and so their craft must be beaten with extreme prejudice)
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5:48)
---Pharisee on 7/8/09|
Looking at this issue with human logic it is even worse than that.
When we are told to love our enemies, that includes those who have hurt us, and might still be deliberately hurting us.
"Those who do not accept Christ in their lifetime" includes those who have maybe just not thought about Jesus as all, or maybe have not even heard of Him.
---alan8566_of_uk on 7/9/09|
geraldine,your missing the whole concept of a righteous God,a God who so loved the world that he sent his son into the world to die,that WHOSOEVER WOULD BELIEVE.God must judge us RIGHTEOUSLY.He wants to through jesus,its our choice whether to accept jesus,or reject jesus. God does not choose salvation for us,but gives it freely to us ,so that we will have life eternal with him in paradise.We choose life or death,spiritual life or spriyual death by either accepting ,or rejecting jesus. But God loves everyone,that why he sent jesus to die on the cross.
---tom2 on 7/9/09|
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Ah-hah . . . yes Jesus says to love our enemies. And loving includes wanting God to make them become our own Jesus Family brothers and sisters, so they don't go to hell, but especially because we really want them to become Family with us. So, if they refuse this, they are not exactly being very kind to themselves.
You ask about enemies being "tortured" for eternity. Do you think God who "is love" (1 John 4:8 & 16) wants to make people suffer and therefore *torture* them? But "our God is a consuming fire," we have in Hebrews 12:29 > ones having a selfish nature can get burnt about loving, and can suffer being burned, in the presence of God. But we who are in Jesus love can be warmed in the same fire.
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/8/09|
Those in hell ultimately choose it.
Someone has suggested, on the basis of careful Scripture study, that the fire of hell is the fire of God's love which will torment those who have not been willing to acknowledgde it in this life.
---Cluny on 7/8/09|
If God created humanity knowing from the beginning that most would reject him and would burn in hell forever, then God is not only cruel but stupid and wasteful as well.
---eric1968 on 7/8/09|