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Rapture Doesn't Happen

What do you think will happen when the rapture doesn't take place when it is supposed to, as taught by most Christian pastors and lay persons such as Tim LaHaye in his Left Behind novel series?

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 ---J._Amory on 7/17/09
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MarkV, agreed so here is my point: when we read Ezk 37 and Jer 31:31-34 is becomes clear that the two Houses of Israel have NOT been reunited yet, but will be at or around Messiah's return. Since we are grafted into the Northern (scattered) Kingdom, (we are not Judah)those two prophetic chapters speak about us just as much as it does those who by bloodline are Israel. Are you with me? So then, when we read Matthew 24, and we see Messiah at the end of the trib send his angels to gather his elect... we are the elect he is sending for just as much as he us awakening those who by bloodline are descendents of those who rejected him.

Just something to think about.
---ken_Rank on 8/7/09


I do NOT agree with you when you say "Tribulation is NOT judgement, judgement comes in the form of His wrath at the end of the tribulation".

Did you miss something?

Rev 6:16 "and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the WRATH of the Lamb"

Rev 7:14 "I said to him, My lord, you know. And he said to me, These are the ones who come out of the great TRIBULATION, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb".

The great tribulation is the Wrath of God.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/7/09

The pre trib rapture is absolutely true

I believe it will happen soon and all those who are "blood washed" will go up.
Praise the Lord for His snatching away of
His own
Please get "saved". Time is short
---julie on 8/7/09

Ken, to your question, According to the New Testament, believing Jews and believing Gentiles are now one. The two combined are "Abraham's Seed" Galatians 3:29. This is the Israel of God, Galatians 6:15,16. This "mystery" has been accomplished by our Messiah's death on the cross. When He died He demolished the wall. Peter and Paul agreed that believing Jews and non-Jews, together, are "the people of God" the "elect" and the "Israel of God" 1 Peter 2:9-10. Col. 3:11-12, Galatians 6:16.
This is not replacement theology which teaches that "the church" has categorically "replaced" Israel.
---MarkV. on 8/7/09

Ken 2: The prophet Isaiah clearly called Israel, the seed of Abraham" Isaiah 41:8. Yet Paul wrote, "Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "and to seeds" as of many, but as of one, And to your Seed," who is Christ" Gal. 3:16.
In Genesis and Exodus, the name Israel not only refered to one victorious man, to Jacob, but also to his descendants, who became Israel. The same principle is revealed in the New Testament. Right after calling Jesus the "Seed" Paul told the Gentile converts And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed" Gal. 3:29
---MarkV. on 8/7/09

MarkV, well done. Tribulation is NOT judgement, judgement comes in the form of His wrath at the end of the tribulation. As Christians, most of us know this, but the modern teachings seem to lump the two together in the same way that the word covenant and Torah are lumped together as one when they are two different things.

Let me ask you Mark, do you believe that Christians are Israel? I am not derailing the thread, this will go with the trib/rapture discussion.

---Ken_Rank on 8/6/09

Ken, I am in agreement with you. Most of what you said I do believe. Tribulation is not judgment. Tribulation are struggles that believers go through. A passage that has a lot of say is 2 Thess. 2:3 "Let no one deceive you by any means, for that Day (when Jesus comes to gather us) will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition"
What many have missed is that Paul is describing an antichrist that rises in the wake of "the falling away" The original word Paul used for "falling away" is "Apostasia," which literally means an apostasy or departure from Jesus Christ inside the Christian Church, before the Second Coming of Christ.
---MarkV. on 8/5/09

MarkV, I missed your one post to me about the trib. No, I am not saying we are in it now, I really can't say when it begins. I do believe we are probably close, but I concede that most generations have thought this... I am probably no different.

My opinion is that we will be here through the tribulation and at the end of it, because we are not appointed to God's wrath, we will either be raptured or otherwise taken to a place of safety.

When you get a chance, closely read Acts 3:19-21 (use multiple versions) and though i hate to say anything to influence what you see... do pay attention to the word "until." That is a key to understanding, but it goes far beyond just Acts 3 of course. :-)

---Ken_Rank on 8/3/09

What make you think the rapture won't happen?
---Pastor_Herb on 8/3/09

MarkV, thanks for the kind words.

To add to this discussion... and I simply submit this, you all draw your own conclusion. My take is that there is nothing new in the NT. Messiah coming wasn't even new, it was prophecied in the Tanach. (OT) The idea of being taken before the Day of the Lord is simply foreign to the Tanach. It is a new thing, even the word rapture is not found in scripture, anywhere.

If we are grafted into Israel (Rom 11) and are no longer Gentiles but fellow citizens with Israel (Eph 2), then we are the elect spoken of in Matt 24 and are also the wheat in Matt 13.

---Ken_Rank on 8/3/09

In addition to my last post, many Jews look to 2 Messiah's. A misunderstanding on their part, but one that will help US understand the chronology. Messiah ben Joseph is known as the suffering servant. Messiah ben David is known as the conquering king.

When Yehoshua came, he came as Messiah ben Joseph, the suffering servant. Many of the Jews who rejected him did so because they expected the conquering king who would free them from Roman bondage. But, Yehoshua returns as ben David and will reign on earth when he does.

So he came as the suffering servant, he returns as king. There is no 3rd coming, no inbetween when many are taken away ONLY to be brought back for the 1000 year reign. IMO

---Ken_Rank on 8/3/09

To everyone, I believe that each giving what they understand is a good idea. That's what discussions are for. We know that not everyone has had the same teachers and also many are ahead of others in teaching. That is pretty obvious. Some have good answers to give. Nothing wrong with giving what you know. I enjoy what Mark E. Ken and many others write. They could open an area I have not seen before.
And no need for anyone to get angry or say bad stuff to another just because they put down an answer you don't agree, just ask why they put what they did and wait for an answer. If they cannot discuss anything then it is wrong. I know eschatology is hard but that is the beauty of it. To work hard to learn.
---MarkV. on 8/1/09

4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

ABSOLUTELY RESERVED (waiting) in heaven to be GIVEN on EARTH

however false ministers who lead MANY away from Gods TRUTH also IMPLY that the reserved reward is heaven which is a LIE

REWARD is to REIGN with Christ on earth ..MEEK are true Christians

Psalms 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth
---Rhonda on 7/31/09

Mark E. I am addressing all the people reading this thread. The concept which you contributed (marriage) and others using alegories initiated my response. I try to write in non personal ways. Frankly, I don't long for Christ to take me out of this mess as much as I long for His presence and guidance today and everyday. This is the challenge of the teaching of the rapture, it seems to be more of an escape mechanism and is often equated with salvation. I try to remind people that eschatology is a exercise in endless speculation. Jesus is coming, and we should look forward to it, but we don't know when that we be. So, we should be ready by living in/through/for Him, and Him in us.
---Rod on 8/1/09

Mark E, to us who expect Messiah, he does not come as a thief in the night. (We are up waiting) But your suddenness question is a good one. "Shortly comes to pass" or the Hebrew equivelant of "quickly" is an idiom that doesn't mean soon, but rather, WHEN it happens, it happens fast.

My position is slowly turning to accept that rather than a rapture, there will be a second exodus of sorts. The key to this understanding (and KATH, your post is addressed here) is that we Christians do not understand WHO we are. Grafted into Israel, no longer gentiles but rather "fellow citizens with the saints," we are part of Israel.

Messiah came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel, he said so himself.
---Ken_Rank on 7/31/09


I assume your last comments are for me, even though you never addressed them directly to me.

I pointed out the Jewish marriage customs primarly because we ARE the bride of Christ. We as the church will participate in the Marrige Supper of the Lamb as the bride, and the similarities of the marriage customs to the actual and prophesied events are too much for coincidence.

Say what you may, but He is my groom and I long for Him to return and sweep us away to be with Him and His Father.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/31/09

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Ken, let me know if I am hearing you correctly, are you saying that the tribulation is already happening, and that when Jesus comes in Matthew 24:29,30, and 1 Thess. and even Rev. 19 is the end of this tribulation we are in now? Just wanted to make sure I am hearing you right. Thanks bro. Would like to hear what you have written on this, but understand there is not enough space.
---MarkV. on 7/31/09

The meek my friend, inherit earth not heaven. .......

Peace.Ken_Rank on 7/28/09


Isaiah 60:21
Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

Ezekiel 48:29

Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


1 Peter 1:3-5
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
---kathr4453 on 7/30/09


I am interested mostly in your explanation of the "suddeness" of His coming described by Jesus in Matt 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will".

If Jesus comes back at the end of the Tribulation period, it not that time descibed vividly in the Revelation? Why would its end be a surprise to us who have already read the book? Also, if believers were not raptured until the end of the Tribulation, would there be any one to rapture? The only people left alive at that time either took the Mark of the Beast or have managed to stay alive, although I don't know how they will stay alive with all that devastation going on.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/30/09

Careful with some of the thinking here. Specifically, equating feasts, marriage,and Israel leaving Egypt with the rapture is pretty far out speculation. Careful or one will see what they want to see. It's like conspiracy theories. Somebody starts seeing things and others start seeing things that confirm the theory.
That's like telling someone, "You know what? the rapture is going to happen because of the way Jews handle marriages."
That's a hard sell.
God sent Israel (a remant stayed) into captivity, so that proves the rapture happens after the trib. See what happens with speculation. I can prove anything.
---Rod on 7/30/09

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What if I were to offer you $1 million to play Russian rulette - would you do it? Saying this is silly, because no one in their right mind would do this. This is exactly what you say when you question about their being a rapture. You are gambling with your eternal soul.
---Leslie on 7/30/09

Mark E, no doubt my friend, but my point is, when Messiah comes at the time of the harvest, when he sends out his angels to gather his elect, that is at the end of the tribulation, not the beginning. Therefore, seeing Messiah will set up in Jerusalem to reign 1000 years, and we will be with him, where is it we will be? Again, we do not inherit heaven. The Kingdom of God will be set up on earth.

I have a short article I wrote going over ALL the verses used to support the pre-trib... but I can't share it here due to space constraints. Too bad, I think you would enjoy the perspective even if you ended up not agreeing with it.

---Ken_Rank on 7/30/09


In John 14:1-3 Jesus tells us about going to prepare a place for us in His Father's house and coming again to receive us unto Himself so we can be with Him.

In Jewish marriage customs of biblical times, a groom would travel from his father's house to a propective bride's house, pay the bride's price, and consecrate the covenant by sharing a cup of wine. Having betrothed his bride, he would return to his father's house to prepare for his bride and the bride would make herself ready for marriage. The groom would return to get his bride at night, in secret, at a time unknown to her and her attendants. He would take her back to his father's house to consumate the marriage, afterwards seven days of feasting would commence.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/29/09

Christians will be very vulnerable and may take the mark of the beast and turn on other beleivers because they did not prepare with "Oil" of the Holy Spirit.

Others will get savvy quick, suck it up and drive on and over come in the blood of the lamb, their testimony, and not love their life unto death.
---Yochanan on 7/28/09

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1 Thes 4:13-18 describes the catching away (Rapture).

1 Thes 1:10 "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come". Believers are saved from God's wrath to come.

1 Thes 5:9 "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ". Believers are not destined for God's wrath.

Rev 6:16 "and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb". God's wrath has come and we are not in the Tribulation yet.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/28/09

Greetings Mark E. During the exodus, when the Israelites were pinned against the Red Sea, God, as a cloud went between His people and the Egyptians. To the latter, it was as if the Israelites were caught up in the cloud. From this, we get the Hebrew idiom which is akin to us driving a car and getting caught up in fog. Hidden, not seen... it's an idiom. When Messiah returns are we caught up and taken to heaven? If yes, why? He isn't taking us to heaven when he returns, he is returning as Messiah ben David, the conquering king, and will set up an earthly reign, where we will be! The meek my friend, inherit earth not heaven. We are protected in the day of wrath, not appointed to it, but not removed.

---Ken_Rank on 7/28/09

Dear Mark Eaton

I have not found a single scripture that supports the pretrib rapture. Would you mind showing me them?
---Samuel on 7/28/09

I strongly believe in a Pre-tribulation rapture. One of the most dramatic things about the Pre- tribulation rapture will be it suddenness. Some scholars believe that it is this suddenness which will set the stage for the Antichrist to come forth and rule the world.
---mima on 7/28/09

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Mark E. I hope you don't mind me jumping in here. As we know that Matthew 24:29,30 is talking about the Second Coming of Christ, for "coming" means "parousia" Second Coming, as Matthew continues his writings he goes into the parable of the Fig tree. Right after he continues concerning "that Day" of the Second Coming in verse 36, "But of that day and hous no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the (again Coming) "Parousia," of the Son of Man be. At this same time of the Second Coming all the genuine Christians will be caught up together and all who are left will die, just as it was in the times of Noah.
---MarkV. on 7/28/09


Yes, I added the word suddenly to the Rev. 7 passage. It is not there literally.

However, if you read every word in the passage, John uses the phrase "and lo" or "and behold" which is the same as you or I saying "and suddenly". The point being, the multitude was not there one moment and then...they were there. However you want to say it, that is how the text reads.

There is no inconsisitency with Pre-Trib rapture. There is plenty of Scripture that supports it. There are also symbolic things that support it. Like the fulfillment of the OT Feast of Trumpets. A double blowing of the Trumpets, one to call the worshippers and one to end the feast. Or, one at Rapture and one at Second Coming.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/27/09


I don't doubt your sincerity Ken. I doubt your application of the wheat and the tares. You want to apply the tares to the church and to the Rapture, but you omit one key word that tells where it fits. The word is "harvest".

What we need to do is match up the "harvest" with another Scripture to see where it does occur. I would suggest you read Rev. 14:14-20 where the angel says to Him who sits on the cloud "Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe". This is the harvest we are looking for, this is where the harvest of the tares match up.

Is this harvest Pre-Trib? I do not think so.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/27/09

MarkV, thanks for the kind words.

Mark E, we have a difference of opinion, and I consider you no less my brother because of it!

Years ago I was reading the parable of the wheat and tares. In it, as you likely know, the tares (children of the wicked one) are taken first, the wheat (children of the Kingdom) gathered to Messiah 2nd. Years later, I have learned to incorporate my growing understanding of Hebrew idioms, semantics in use during the days scripture was written, as well as the cultural influences that would have been (and are) present in the Apostolic writings. Maybe as I have some time, and if you'll allow me, I will share another perspective of being "caught up in the clouds." Until then...

---Ken_Rank on 7/27/09

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True statement, "There is no support for a pre-trib rapture." I Thess 4:17-21 says nothing about "pre-trib."
Noah is a illustration of "judgement," pre-trib people need to see that their belief in a pre-trib is not "judgement,"but a salvation, if one believes this.To say "a great multitude "suddenly" appears" is reading that "suddenly" into the text.
The inconsistency of the pre-trib teaching is that they claim to be literalists, but from the brief examples above, they read into texts or allegorize passages to fix their pre-trib belief (dispensational) system.
---Rod on 7/27/09


I must disagree with your flat out statement of "Second, there is no support for a pre-trib rapture in scripture". How much proof do you need?

First, you MUST believe in a rapture. 1 Thes 4:17-21 bears this out.

Second, Jesus used Noah and Lot to demonstrate what it would be like prior to His coming. In both the flood and destruction of Sodom, God delivered His holy ones prior to judgment. The Tribulation is judgment, therefore the church must be delivered prior to it.

Third, In Rev. 7 a great multitude suddenly appears without John seeing them. They worship and love the Lamb. A description of the raptured church from BEFORE the Tributlation.
---Mark_Eaton on 7/27/09

Ken, those were great comments you gave. Your statements need no interpretation though. Your references in Isa. and Romans were very good. Thanks
---MarkV. on 7/23/09

Mima, Happy Birthday bro. and many many more.
---MarkV. on 7/23/09

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Thank you--- Rod, I am 72 years old today, now my mother who was there, always said, I was a beautiful baby and I might add nothing has changed, as for as I know, ha-ha

Highlights in my life:
1. Saved 51 years ago.
2. Married 50 years ago
3. We had a son 46 years old
4. At age 35 begin to study the Bible and trying to witness.
5. Have heard many people pray for their salvation after witnessing to them.
6. At this stage in my life I can say I'm very happy very satisfied and I feel very complete. And I'm looking forward with great anticipation of meeting the Lord!!
7. My only regret is not having done more for the sake of the kingdom.
---mima on 7/23/09

AMORY, The bible says no man knows the day or hour when the lord will come like a thief in the night.
You should be thinking what will you do when you are left behind?
The saints that are left will be be-headed.
---batieste on 7/22/09

Not everything is as cut and dry as it seems folks. We need to learn to study better, look at the context better, be willing to admit we are wrong when and if we are.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Sounds easy enough right? Ever go to the Isaiah quote that is referenced?

Isa 10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return:

Saved or returned? Do we "go to heaven" when Messiah returns, or do we inherit the land he will reign over?

---KenRank on 7/22/09

No offense Kath, but that is hogwash. First, there is no reason to divide brethren over a difference of opinion! Second, there is no support for a pre-trib rapture in scripture... but that is MY opinion. Matt. 24 should be enough for any but there are of course more. The parable of the wheat and tares has the tares taken first at the end of the world, not the wheat who ARE STLL THERE. Both Noah and Lot were also given protection JUST BEFORE the wrath, and Yehoshua likened his return to their day. There are more, I won't bore you.

---KenRank on 7/22/09

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People who don't believe in the rapture of the Church really don't understand what the hope of His calling to His Church is today, this very minute. What that calling has been from the beginning of the Church. We are called for 1:
to be overcomers. With these promises to the overcomers stated in the letters to the churches in Revelation we are told for one, we won't go through the Great tribulation such as has NEVER been in the whole history of the world.

There are more totally awesome promises to the OVERCOMERS, that ONLY those IN CHRIST can know them to begin with...(hidden manna)

Those who DON'T know these promises and our HOPE in them..will in fact be as caught off guard as those in the days of Noah.
---kathr4453 on 7/22/09

Happy Birthday mima,
A question that raises many other questions. If we are not careful, we end up in endless speculations, which I believe the details of eschatology are.
However, if one holds to a dispensational view, which I dont, we know that some believers (144,000) survive. We also know that there are believers during the tribulation because they did not love their life even to death (Rev. 13:11). And, so what if the church did not survive on earth. I do not mean anything to come across harshly if it does.
---Rod on 7/22/09

Our hope is in Christ, our life is in Christ, our salvation is in Christ, and our faith is in Christ. Yes, we have a hope of His second coming, but we dont know when that will be.
I believe the rapture as has been taught is speculation, same with the tribulation and other details. Our focus should be on the person of Christ.
---Rod on 7/22/09

Mima*People who do not believe in a rapture can be compared to people who did not believe Noah when he was building the ark. Just as the rain was a surprise so will the rapture be a surprise.

And what happen to those people who did not believe, Were they went behind or taken away?

Mima*If there is to be no rapture then it is impossible that the church can survive through the tribulation because of the requirement to take the mark of the beast to survive. That is something to think about.

Don't take the mark of the beast and die for our Saviour like the early christians did, have Faith in our Lord!
---Ruben on 7/22/09

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---Rod considering that tomorrow I will be 73 years old I was intrigued by your statement "I hope I am entreating you as one would a father. " While I completely agree with your post, My post was principally based on the surprise of the rapture for some people. I would like to see you critique my statement,
"If there is to be no rapture then it is impossible that the church can survive through the tribulation because of the requirement to take the mark of the beast to survive. That is something to think about". I'm interested in your comment.
---mima on 7/22/09

mima, I hope I am entreating you as one would a father. You have contributed many great comments on these blogs.
However, comparing people who do not believe in a rapture (I am assuming you are refering to a pre-trip rapture)to people who did not believe Noah is a bit harsh. People who did not believe in Noah's day,"God saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth (Gen.6:5)." People today are saved through faith in Christ, not in man's system of theology. When we stand before God at the Judgement, I doubt if the questions will be what our system of theology was.
Although the second coming of Christ is a clear teaching, one needs to keep in mind that the teachers of the Law thought they had it all figured out.
---Rod on 7/21/09

People who do not believe in a rapture can be compared to people who did not believe Noah when he was building the ark. Just as the rain was a surprise so will the rapture be a surprise. Immediately after the rapture takes place there will be much wailing and moaning and groaning but too late I might add to escape having your head chopped off for your testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ.

If there is to be no rapture then it is impossible that the church can survive through the tribulation because of the requirement to take the mark of the beast to survive. That is something to think about.
---mima on 7/21/09

Steveng said, "Today's christians are vain to think that they are previlaged to escape tribulations while all the other christians and godly people all throughout history went through their own tribulations. This is the most wicked generation and the tribulation will match it."
Take the time to notice that tribulations and the Great Tribulation/Jacobs Trouble are two separate things. Not all of this generation is wicked. For one, I hope you are not.
People who don't understand biblical doctrine will not understand this issue either. There were many "raptures" throughout the Scriptures.
Cluny musta had his own private rapture as he won't answer my questions.
---Elder on 7/20/09

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2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit, through the true Church "letteth" (that is, delays or hinders) the revelation of the son of perdition. In effect, He will be "taken out of the way" when all those He indwells and guides are caught up to meet the Lord. Of course, since He is omnipresent, He will still be present and working on earth, though not through the church.
---a_friend on 7/20/09

Moderator - the Rapture WILL take place when it supposed to happen, its just that LaHaye and other guessers are and will continue to preach in error.
Most of these TV prophecy ministries give a U.S. based intepretation of Hermeneutics which is silly since the west goes unmentioned or is largely insignificant to end times including Armeggedon or the rapture.
We don't know what we don't know.
It amazes me how many end time prophecies ignore even what we do know for sure, such as suggestions Christ will return before the Temple is rebuilt.
For our purposes the rapture occurs when you die. You're gone.
---larry on 7/20/09

"How surprised will YOU be, when the rapture DOES happen, pre 70th week, and YOU are left behind?" (Lyle)

How surprised will YOU be when the Rapture (Second Coming of Jesus Christ) occurs Post-Tribulation, as taught by Holy Tradition (i.e., Holy Scriptures, the writings of the Holy Fathers/Mothers of the 1st-11 centuries and so on). You will be standing around wondering where Christ is. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture theory is very late doctrine proposed by Pop-Evangelicals, and has no foundation within Holy Scriptures.

---Ignatius on 7/20/09

Just so I understand a previously stated postition. Are you suggesting if one does not believe in a pre-trib rapture, that person is not saved? Really?!?!
Yes, we should be anticipating the second coming, but that doesn't mean it is pre-trib.
Salvation is being found in Christ.
Even if one is not looking for His coming, He will come anyway.For example, if I have been told some friends are coming to visit, but said, "We don't know when we'll get there," they will arrive whether I am looking for them or not.
---Rod on 7/20/09

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So GOD is petty and if you are wrong on when the Second Coming is GOD will make sure that we who do not believe in a secret coming have to stay behind and suffer with the jews and others while those who got it right get to go.

That does not sound like the GOD of the bible who loves everyone. GOD is not vindictive but just and righteous.

At the Second Coming all who love GOD will go. Those who do not go will be gathered and burned.
---Samuel on 7/20/09

Lyle, very well put.
---a_friend on 7/19/09

Barbara, we have approved around 200 blog comments today and your comment below is the only comment we received from you???

Follow the posting rules and make sure not to use inappropriate words as the computer will delete the post automatically.
---Moderator on 7/19/09

How surprised will YOU be, when the rapture DOES happen, pre 70th week, and YOU are left behind?

God is a perfect gentleman, and since you believe something else will come first, you will be left behind. He is coming for those "looking for" Him.

---Lyle on 7/19/09

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Message to the moderator:

Why do you never post my comments? They are never fighting, argumentative and are pulled from scripture. This is not a real Christian based site as you only allow certain people to post.

I will pray that God open your heart and mind.
---Barbara on 7/19/09

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies beheld them.
Revelation 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. That my friends, is the rapture
---a_friend on 7/18/09

There is going to be a "Rapture" (i.e, Second Coming of Jesus Christ). However, the "rapture" theory as taught within Pop-Evangelical churches (supposedly occurs prior to the Tribulation, thus Christ comes back two more times, even though Holy Scriptures only teach a Second Coming of Christ) is nowhere taught in Holy Scriptures, nor was believed by the Holy Early Church Fathers. In fact, this unique doctrine, being spread by the Left Behind fiction series, can not be traced prior to 17-18th centuries, and it is at odds with Ancient Christianity. It is not taught by all the Apostolic Churches of the East.
The Rapture is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, which occurs after the Tribulation (Matt. 13, etc).

---Ignatius on 7/18/09

Focusing on a pre-trib rapture is an incorrect focus. First, when Paul mentioned the concept in Thess., he is trying to communicate that believers should not grieve, as unbelievers, over the death of a believer because that person will rise again. Paul is not teaching a precise system of eschatology.
Second, the teaching of a pre-trib rapture is somewhat complex. It's based on a belief that God dealt with Israel, before Christ, and the "church" is distinct from Israel (hyper-dispendsationalism). This system believes that God needs to rapture the church so He can again deal with Israel. Lastly, nobody knows how end times will exactly work out. Focus on Christ. Life in Christ is an heart issue, not a nice life on earth issue.
---Rodj on 7/18/09

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[Rom 5:9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
We can date the return of Christ when the Anti-christ rises to power - 7 years. What we cannot date is the Rapture.

Another thought - The Church is the Bride of Christ. God is not a wife beater and his bride is not appointed to wrath.
---Barbara on 7/18/09

1 Thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed

1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
---Kelly_P on 7/18/09

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days," Notice (Those Days)is talking about the first part of the whole 7 years of tribulation.
---a_friend on 7/18/09

The Seven Churches are addressed in Revelation - One is promised an Escape from the Great Tribulation - - examples below show where Christ told one church they would go through the Trib and thew other they would not.

Thyatira: Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Philadelphia: Rev 3:8/10 I know thy works, behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it....Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.
---Barbara on 7/18/09

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People will invent a new day of rapture, explain away the other one and continue on like that. Like they always do. How many other "end of the worlds" have we already lived through?

The end will come like a thief in the night. We don't know when that is. Sorry world, I think that's the point.
---Kristen on 7/19/09

I'd go along with Cluny. When those expecting the "rapture" to come along and protect them from the Beast get a whiff of that "christian" blood, they're gonna be the ones throwin' the switch on the hot-seat. They'll figure that since they ain't been beamed out, yet, that the system is still "their" system (even if it is a world system)... and the ones bein' rounded up are merely anti-socialists: and, of course, anti-Christian.

Joh 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
---BruceB on 7/18/09

"What do you think will happen when the rapture doesn't take place when it is supposed to?

Many if not most will be deceived by the miraculous appearance of the spurious messiah. (2Thes.2:8-10).
---joseph on 7/18/09

well you have at least one thing wromg,lahaye has a doctriate in ministry,he is not a laymen.
---tom2 on 7/17/09

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J._Amory, what are you and people like you going to do when the Rapture does occur? Ever thought about that. Maybe you will be wrote about in another chapter of the Left Behind series.
Cluny said, "Those who are expecting it will be among those deceived by the Beast."
In your great biblical knowledge will you give me a Bible verse for your statement?
Also, whatta think about that "mid-trib" rapture? Does it occur or not?
---Elder on 7/17/09

Today's christians are vain to think that they are previlaged to escape tribulations while all the other christians and godly people all throughout history went through their own tribulations. This is the most wicked generation and the tribulation will match it.

Pray to God that you are worthy enough to endure what is about to happen.
---Steveng on 7/17/09

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
---a_friend on 7/17/09

Either God is a liar, or man is. The Bible talks about the rapture happening, and the Bible is TRUTH. The rapture WILL take place. J_Amory it sounds like you listen to teaching from Don Harris. If so, let me warn you that his teaching is AGAIST the Bible. Get the DVD by Perry Stone "The Rapture and the Law of First Fruits" - this teaching lines up with the Bible.
---Leslie on 7/17/09

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Being a firm believer in the Pre-Trib Rapture I must say that nothing will happen if the Pre-Trib Rapture does not take place.

I expect you want to hear everyone will panic and be plagued with fear and lose their hope. However, our hope is not in the Rapture. Our hope is in Jesus and our security lies in Him. If He wants us to go through the Great Tribulation, then so be it. Our victory is already won in Him, and we should persevere just like today. The world hates us today, it will hate us tomorrow.

My question back to you is: how will you measure the Rapture not taking place?
---Mark_Eaton on 7/17/09

There is no rapture
But there will be a Gathering at the 7th Trump
God said His people will be deceived in these last days.and in the Book of Luke He tells us where these people are flying to{the ones that believe the rapture}
In the Valley of the Vultures
---Gabby on 7/17/09

In the New Testament, Jesus says He will come back "Immediately after the tribulation of those days," in Matthew 24:21-31. So, this post-trib statement by Jesus Himself is clearly part of our New Covenant. And the Holy Spirit has not inspired any New Testament writer to say anything like, "Jesus will come back before the great tribulation." So, pre-trib is not a canon scripture Holy Spirit inspired doctrine. And ones have given us their word that they expect us to believe only what the Bible says, yet they themselves are promoting pre-trib. And ones emphasize pre-trib. like they do, even though the Holy Spirit does not make such a point that we believe in this.
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/17/09

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