Tribulation Deals With Israel
"The Tribulation does not deal with the Church at all, but with the purification of Israel." What do you think?
Moderator - If one believes that 70 AD filled the Book of Revelation, then one would believe the Great Tribulation is dealing with Israel and not the Gentiles.
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---mima on 7/22/09
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"The Tribulation" addresses the faithfulness of those that claim to be, or consider themselves to be children of God. Jesus' instructions to us concerning this time is to take heed that no man deceive us. For Father is not mocked: We are to stay alert, watch and pray, that we enter not into temptation. For although the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth? Will we keep the word of His patient endurance and steadfastness until the end, shunning the temptation? The temptation of one whose coming is in accord with the effectual operation and activity of Satan, deceiving through powerful signs and false wonders, magnifying himself in his heart, and by peace destroying many.
---joseph on 8/10/09|
Scripture notes that the Besorah(Gospel) will be preached to the whole world as a (testimony), then the end will come.
Revelations 14:6-7 has an angel proclaiming an ancient gospel. verse 15 and 16 shows the earth is harvested. Matt 13:38-39 seems to outline the harvest time as once. Not two comings of Christ.
Matt 24:31 and Duet 4:27-31 have a similar ring to it about the gathering of Isreal(Believers).
---yochanan on 8/9/09|
Meira, what you say about tribulation that it is talking about the saints not the lost is true. We know of course that the lost also go through tribulation but Scripture is speaking only of the saints when it speaks of tribulation.
Since the church begin Jesus said that believers were going to go through tribulations on account of Him. And they have all through history. There is no one tribulation greater then others, only that what is to come might be greater then what we have had so far. And Gentiles will be saved and have been saved during this tribulations. If what is meant that tribulation happens after the taking away of the saints, then no more Gentiles will come to Christ, since the Christians are the church.
---MarkV. on 8/5/09|
Hi Rosalie, I'm just curious where you get your dates at? Besides, Jesus did say no one will know the day or the hour so if you would, please explain--thank you :) God bless you :)
---Mary on 8/1/09|
...The great Tribulation in our days is 23 years. Its starts in 1988 and it will end up to May 21, 2011 the rapture until the end of the world on October 21, 2011. ...
---rosalie on 8/1/09
But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
---Meira on 8/1/09|
There are three previous tribulation the Tribulation of Jacob 7 years intering in Egypt in 1877 BC, the tribulation of Israel & Judah in 587 BC under Babylon is 70 years. The great Tribulation in our days is 23 years. Its starts in 1988 and it will end up to May 21, 2011 the rapture until the end of the world on October 21, 2011. So Tribulation in Matthew 24 and Revelation is for all the world. God is finished using Israel as the curtain was rent. God will used church but the churh too was finished. God is using Elect or individuals today.
---rosalie on 8/1/09|
There are NOT two brides, Judah will be restored (Ezk 37/Jer 31) and we are graffed into the Northern (lost or scattered) Kingdom which will be joined to Judah never to be divided again. Ken Rank
Exactly. Taking that one step further. Since we are a part of Northern Israel-who was scattered because of lack of obedience to Elohim's instructions (torah)- wouildn't it stand to reason that in order to be restored we must now keep the El's instructions AKA Torah?
If we want to be grafted in to israel and receive the blessings, we must obey the instructions that bring the blessings.
Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12
---Meira on 7/31/09|
So that sounds like a precedent for a post-trib rapture. What do you think?
---jose on 7/31/09
That is what I believe.
But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day (not two dayS seperated by 7 years, but 1 day) come on you unexpectedly.
Watch therefore, and pray always that you (Yahushua is talking to his disciples, not worldly sinners) may be counted worthy to escape (not talking about a rapture, but fleeing to the hills v21) all these things (read luke 21:20-27) that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."
---Meira on 7/31/09|
So that sounds like a precedent for a post-trib rapture. What do you think?
---jose on 7/31/09|
CORRECTION of my previous blog post:
The word tribulation throughout scripture (30 of 33 times) actually describes Elohim's testing of the saints, not the unholy.
---Meira on 7/30/09|
Meira, astute observation regarding when the "congregation" began. Israel is a word with many meanings (land, a person, a nation) and "My people Israel" is a term God uses over 20 times in the Tanach. (OT) Seeing Paul made it clear in Romans 11 concerning being graffed into Israel, and Eph. 2 shows how we WERE gentiles, strangers to the covenant and aliens to the Commonwealth of Israel but are NOW through faith fellow citizens... then indeed the "church" began at Sinai.
There are NOT two brides, Judah will be restored (Ezk 37/Jer 31) and we are graffed into the Northern (lost or scattered) Kingdom which will be joined to Judah never to be divided again.
---Ken_Rank on 7/30/09|
it is my understanding that it is Gods judgement on the world of non believers,in both him and his son.....Why would it deal with the church?the church is saved.The real church.
the word tribulation throughout scripture (30 of 33 times) actually describes not Elohim's testing of the saints, not the unholy.
When we are saved we are nolonger gentiles, but grafted into Israel. Rom 11
The "church" wasn't founded in Acts, but at Mt Sinai. Church=ekklesia(greek)=assembly=kahal (hebrew)= which is used for the congregation at mt sinai.
read through mt 24. it gives you a play by play.
---Meira on 7/29/09|
Revelation 14:12 KJV
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev. 12:17 KJV
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Sounds like they are talking about Christians and Messianic Jewish beleivers who are still here on earth during 7 tribulation period.
No escape from testing for anyone. Keep your lamps full of oil and get full of the Holy Spirit Now.
---Yochanan on 7/26/09|
I know so long, as you keep separating the lord. You do know or understand his works!
I cant believe you, you have eyes and you really dont see!
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up? Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
God help us!
---TheSeg on 7/25/09|
it is my understanding that it is Gods judgement on the world of non believers,in both him and his son.During this period there are the 2 prophets,and the 144000,all are jewish,and most people believe the 2 prophets are enoch,and elijah,because these 2 never died.Why would it deal with the church?the church is saved.The real church.
---tom2 on 7/25/09|
where does it say purification of Israel in Gods Word?
tribulation comes upon whole world like a snare ...just like all other tribulations (trials) experienced by ancient Israel so will spiritual Israel (true christians) experience the last trial from The Father ...not all of spiritual Israel will be taken to a place of safety ...warning from Christ was to WATCH and PRAY that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things ....believing tribulation does not "deal" with the church is the deception given by false ministers who dismiss Revelation to follow the fable of being whisked away to never-never-land before the tribulation begins
---Rhonda on 7/24/09|
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I am bit confused. If 70AD fulfilled Revelation, then Revelation is fulfilled and doesn't have anything to do with a tribulation or Israel or Gentiles.
I admit, Revelation is confusing. I lean toward a 70AD fulfillment, and or, it is revealing that there is a day of judgement and afterlife, but how it exactly works out is up for speculation. We will give an account for our lives in Christ, and we need to be ready for whatever may happen. I don't see what people get worked up over how things will end. Let's live Godly in Christ and look forward to seeing Him. One of my first questions will be, "Why didn't You make things clearer." I always get an answer now, "It's as clear as it needs to be."
---Rod on 7/24/09|
Moderator, I am afraid I must disagree with your comment. The main focus in the book of Revelation is God's purging of the nation Israel and judgment on the world for its rebellion against Him. I don't believe that 70A.D. was fulfillment of the prophecies of Revelation, more like a preview of things to come. There will be Gentiles saved during the Tribulation, but, the focus is on Israel.
---tommy3007 on 7/24/09|