Gospel Never Preached To
Luke 12.48 says: "But he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes"
Does this give us hope about those to whom the Christian message has never been preached?
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---alan8566_of_uk on 8/15/09
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Mark E, you misinterpret my response. Here is what you said I said,
"You are saying that the parables are only given to unbelievers and only talk about unbelievers. Nothing could be farther from the truth."
I never said that. I said when parables are given unbelievers have to be there, and I said that because you said the parable was given to believers (servants of the master). Unbelievers have to be there because parables are given to unbelievers. And I added, It does not mean believers are not there, in fact in the parable it was talking about both servants, faithful and unfaithful. But since Luke 8:10 states that parables are given to unbelievers for a purpose they have to be there. I leave you peace.
---MarkV. on 8/18/09|
Brother, I think you have a serious misunderstanding of Luke 8:10 and the statement upon that misunderstanding is TOTALLY wrong.
You are saying that the parables are only given to unbelievers and only talk about unbelievers. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
You base this opinion upon Luke 8:10. I do not know how you read that verse, but my understanding of that verse is this:
Believers will understand the parables and the mystereis of the kingdom taught in them. To all others, they will see the parables without seeing the kingdom truth in them, and they hear the parables without hearing the underlying message in them.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/18/09|
Mark E. I went to Luke 8 to show you that Jesus had already mentioned to them that "Parables" Plural, are given to unbelievers. Yet only those who are saved know the mysteries of God, but not those who are lost. It does not mean believers are not present. It means that unbelievers have to be present. The question they ask had already been answered by Jesus in chapter 8.
Next thing, an unfaithful steward who beats his servants and disobey's God is not a believer. All information I have on that parable is talking about the good steward, the bad steward, and judgment on those who disobey God, and ignorance is no excuse for Judgment. True believers do not get Judgment, they are already forgiven.
---MarkV. on 8/18/09|
-- Alan of UK:
Brother ~ Rom.2:13-16 ~ shares what you're seeking to reveal!!
When a Gentile, which has not the law, does by nature the things contained in the law, he's a law unto himself : 'Doing' the works of the law written in his Heart.
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men's Hearts by Jesus Christ according to the Gospel, it shall not be the 'Hearers' of the law that are Justified before God, but the 'Doers' of the law.
The Truth of God's Kingdom lies in the Hearts of men, by the Light of God shining always in the darkness of man's Heart : but the darkness comprehends it not. So, All have heard the 'Truth'(Christ) but not all have comprehended & perceived to 'Do' that 'Truth'.
---Shawn.M.T. on 8/18/09|
Why you need to go into Luke chapter 8 to understand what is happening in this passage?
As you said, Peter does ask Jesus "Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?".
But how does Jesus answer him? With a question and an example.
Jesus answers Peter "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time?".
Next, Jesus shows Peter and the disciples who is the faithful and sensible steward by telling them the passage in Luke 12:43-48.
Again I must emphasize, this is written about faithful and sensible stewards. This is written about believers.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/18/09|
I recall a scripture which says that those who have not heard about Jesus will be judged on the basis of what they do know.
I can picture it on the bottom right of the right hand page of my Bible.
But can I find it? No !!
Can anyone else track it down?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/17/09|
Mark E, I have to disagree with you. The parable was to answer Peter in verse 41, "Lord, do You speak this parable only to us, or to all people?"
Notice that in Luke 8:10 the disciples asked Jesus, what does the parable mean?, "And He said, 'to you (believers) it has been given to know the "mysteries" of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that Seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand"
This too was a parable in Luke 12:42-48. And was speaking of both. Another thing, a person that acts from his heart like the servant in verse 45, against what God says, and begins to beat the male and female servants is an unfaithful an wicked servant to the Master.
---MarkV. on 8/17/09|
This passage is written to Believers (slaves of the master). The master is the Heavenly Father. We are not His slaves before we come to salvation, we are estranged from God and are His enemies.
The passages describes believers who knew a lot about the master's will but did not get ready, they will receive many lashes (for disobedience). But the believers who knew little of the master's will, even though they were not ready, will receive less lashes.
The latter goup may be new converts at His coming, or believers who never had the opportunity to study God's word, either from lack of opportunity or from lack of resources. However, I do not think this will include those who are simply lazy.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/17/09|
The Gospel of the kingdom will be preached unto all the 'world'-as the inhabitants of the earth, all men-"for a witness unto all 'nations'-ethnic groups." Everyone will hear the message, if not in this life, in the life to come. The millennial reign of Jesus will ensure that all will have the opportunity that we ourselves has been blessed with. Speaking of Jerusalem, the city of our Great King, and it's inhabitants during this reign "... All your sons will be taught by the LORD, and great will be your childrens peace. In righteousness you will be established:" For " they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD."
Refs.Mat 24:14>Isaiah 54:13>John 6:45> Jeremiah 31:34
---Josef on 8/17/09|
Luke 12:42-48 is a parable. vv.43, "blessed is that servant" Talking about faithful steward. And pictures the faithful believer who manages well the spiritual riches God has put in his care for the benefit of others and the careful management of the masters estate. verse 44, Such spiritual stewarding will result in honor and reward,
Verse 45 "to beat the servants" refers to the wicked steward's unfaithfulness and his cruel behavior illustrates the evil of an unbelieving heart.
Verse 46, "cut him in two" speaks of the severity of final judgment of unbelievers. Verse 47,48, here the degrees of punishment is commensurate with the extent of which the unfaithful behavior was willful.
---MarkV. on 8/17/09|
Luke 12:43-48 #2: In verse 47, the servant knew the will of God and rebelled against what God's will was. Verse 48. if you notice here that ignorance is nonetheless no excuse. That there will be varying degrees of punishment in hell is clearly taught In Matt. 10:15, 11:22,24, Mark 6:11, and Heb. 10:29.
This parable is speaking not about hope, but about the conduct of people. The good servant and the unfaithful servant and the Judgment that God imposes concerning their conduct. Even ignorance does not exclude anyone.
---MarkV. on 8/17/09|
whats more interesting,and sobering is within luke 12-48 for unto whomsoever much is given,of him shall much be required.
---tom2 on 8/16/09|
Let's first understand the passage. Blessed Theophylact of Ochrid, an 11th century Byzantine Churchman, wrote:
"The Lord reveals to us something...frightening. Such a man who is stripped of grace not only is not saved from punishment by his former gift, but his high rank in and itself will become the cause of even greater condemnation. For the greater the knowledge he had when he sinned, the greater the punishment he brings upon himself. The Lord makes this clear in the words which follow [v.48].In thes words, he refers to the greater punishment to which the teachers are liable" (The Explanation of The Holy Gospel According to Luke, pg 159).
The judgment of the teachers of the Church will be strict (Jam 3:1).
---Ignatius on 8/16/09|
#2 The many stripes given to those who are willfully and knowingly disobedient symbolize condemnation. The few stripes are for those disobedient out of ignorance and indicate chastisement or correction.
Anyway, I will answer your question. Is there hope? Yes. God can save whoever he wishes. Let's us not presumed to know what will happen to those non-Christians who never heard the Gospel. Let's us worry about our own salvation instead, and make haste to spread The Holy Apostolic Faith to all nations.
---Ignatius on 8/16/09|
To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?
Simply put, as more is revealed & given unto us, more shall be required : as stated in the rest of Luke 12:48.
The Hope of humanity is in knowing God's Light of Truth is always shining in the darkness, even though the darkness comprehends it not. So, The Gospel of Truth is being/has been presented/preached to everyone through out their lifetime.
Whether comprehended or not, the Truth of God's Kingdom resides in the Heart of men, and shouldn't completely be sought after in books made of paper or stone because there are many other things which Jesus did, the which, if every one was written, I suppose even the world itself could not contain the books that should be needed to hold them.
---Shawn.M.T. on 8/16/09|
Alan, Yes there is hope. There are going to be some who were raised with the Christian message all their life whose heart is not with the Lord. There will be others who have never heard the Christian message, yet they know in their heart that there is a mighty God. They know deep down He will be a perfect and fair judge and they will have to give an account for their lives so they strive to be clean from sin. These are those who live to bring honor to God, are pure in heart and love their fellow man. God will judge all in complete fairness so yes there is hope. It does not mean we don't have to be urgent to get out the truth however, since many need to know the Good News and start living for God.
---Anne on 8/15/09|
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Leslie ... What about those who have already died?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/15/09|
there are two types of books, at the last judgement will be judged by the book of works all that are not found in the book of life, so all will have a fair chance
---andy3996 on 8/15/09|
Alan - The Bible also says that before the end comes and Jesus comes back, EVERY person in the world will have a chance to hear the Gospel message. This leaves NO one with an excuse of I did not hear to know. EVERY person will hear the Gospel, but not every one will receive it. What this means is that EVERY person will be accountable to if they accepted or rejected it, on the Day of Judgement. If you accept it, you go to Heaven, if you reject it, you go to Hell.
---Leslie on 8/15/09|
But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows.
It's the punishment aspect of God. In your life, you do get punished by God for your sins either in this life or in the next life. It's just most people can't figure out why they are being punished oftentimes. Or they don't want to accept that the punishment they are receiving is because of their actions against God.
I think the passage means someone who is truly obeying the law will not receive punishment from God except to the extent of their actions. There are plenty of people who go for decades doing very little wrong in the eyes of God and they may not receive much punishment by God in this life.
---stephen on 8/15/09|
Possibly some hope, but stripes are stripes.
---amand6348 on 8/15/09|