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The Creation Day

Is there any reason (other than a religious faith in evolution) to believe that the first three days of Creation were of any different length than the last three?

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 ---jerry6593 on 8/22/09
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Tom you are falling for 'liberal' theology which attempts to spiritualize everything, even to Jesus death and resurrection. However we know the wages of sin is death, and for that reason Jesus physically died upon the cross, and rose again, physically.

Adam was never meant to die but did so spritiually and physically because of his sin. God's word says death is the last enemy to be defeated and that we in heaven will live forever because Jesus overturned the curse of death.

God does not ignore the wolves within the fold at all, His word is a testament against them
---Warwick on 8/26/09

StrongAxe, consider the six-day war, so-called because it lasted six-days.

Incidentally, at the time the question was asked-How come it took Israel only six-days to defeat the Muslims? Answer: because the seventh-day is the Sabbath!

Now we English speakers read the Bible in English, correct? Therefore it was translated into English so we can understand it, correct? Therefore as we know what six-days (e.g.six-day war) means we can understand what Exodus 20:8-11 means because it was translated into English so we could understand what God meant,correct?

Why would the Translators translate the original Hebrew as 'six-days', if that is not what the underlying Hebrew text says?

It is in our terms isn't it?
---Warwick on 8/26/09

steveng - I realize that you can come up with some rationale for believing all the days or periods of Creation were of 24 hour duration, however, as I stated before there is nothing in the Genesis record that demands we believe that the first 3 days were of 24 hour duration.

As for those that believed in 6 days, there is no reason to hold that these 6 days were anything but 6 periods of time only.
---lee on 8/26/09

warwick,I never said I didn,t believe they were 24 hour days,you said I didn,t.I said to me its a silly thing to argue over,when all thaqt really matteres is God did it,how long it took to me is really not of interest.Actually Iam sure if God desired he could make an entire universe in a micro second,but that would really confuse all the scientists out there.They would say thats impossible,like God is restricted somehow by anything.Bet he could destroy everything just as fast.
---tom2 on 8/26/09

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness,

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
---TheSeg on 8/26/09

//Tom I prefer to follow Scripture, preach the gospel and defend His Truth against 'wolves.

It is very unfortunate and really expresses an unloving attitude calling other Christians wolves just because they happen to have an insight and more learned viewpoint than others.

But such is those who demand that others accept their interpretation, in some cases based upon ASSumptions.

---lee on 8/26/09

Lee I am sure you are getting tired. Defending your man-made 'castle' with nothing must be very tiring. Conversely 'the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword..'-Hebrews 4:12. Sticking to God's word is always rewarding, refreshing and fun!

By the way what would you accept as Biblical proof that the 6 days of creation are of the same length?

BTW you have been very silent on the Scriptures which show your view undermines the gospel. For good reason I believe.
---Warwick on 8/26/09

You, guys must think me a fool!
It was not Warwick that convince me, but you!
He is not the one fighting, he is merely stating what is written, six days!
Bless him!

As me before, why is it we wish to believe, it was more then six days. Is it not to make god more believable, even thought it also a way of fitting in evolution.
Something god is clearly not saying!
This is a man made justification of God!
Dont say no! Because in your hearts, you know it the truth!

So then!
Ye are they which justify yourselves before men, but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

God Bless
---TheSeg on 8/26/09

Is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob a liar? Is He a God of confusion?

When God says it was six days, how can you argue that? God's measurement of time is not like ours. But let's reason this out. Let's represent God's measure of twenty four hours as 'a' (remember algebra?). On the third day, he measured the 24 hour in human time representing 'a'. Then he worked backwards in His measurement of time and it took Him 3a. 3a plus three 24 days and, voila, six days.

Now since you know god's reasoning behind telling mankind it was six days, could you now go out into the world and help increase the population of the Kingdom of God instead of debating frivolous agurments?
---Steveng on 8/26/09


I am more than happy to accept "what God says" about Creation day length. If you can find a scripture that ACTUALLY says how long those days were (in terms that we can relate to), I would be happy to accept them. As of yet, I have never yet found or heard any.

"Morning and evening" do not themselves declare length - they just describe the difference between two other events, and time can only be measured if the timing of those events is known. These typically refer to "sunrise and sunset", but again, those are synchronized with the sun, and they are meaningless when there is no sun.

I see absolutely no mention at all of "same length" in Exodus 20:8-11 either.
---StrongAxe on 8/26/09

no there was no death before the fall,because there was no sin.But remember the death scriptire usually speaks of is not physical death.My point is the spirit of anti christ,and plain scoffers,and hardcore athiests,have been and always will be with us. Personally I choose to ignore them,God does.
---tom2 on 8/26/09

michael - my main agrument on this issue is the FACT that the Genesis record DOES NOT specify that the duration of time God called 'days' were of equal or of 24 hour duration. The 24 hour thing is based on the rotation of the earth in relationship to the sun, which was created on the 4th 'day'.

As to those who would believe the days had to be of 24 hour duration, must therefore based their belief on what is known as an ASSumption.

What else can be stated?
---lee on 8/26/09

//NO matter which way you slice it ,all the events of day 6 could not be "crammed" into 24hours!.

I bet you will really get Warwick to squirm on this one as anyone reasonable would feel boxed in.

There is really no way out of acknowledging this as a fact.

In any case, I am getting tired of this issue and of telling Warwick that the record does NOT support any 24 hour duration for all the Creation days.
---lee on 8/26/09

Tom I prefer to follow Scripture, preach the gospel and defend His Truth against 'wolves.' Acts 20:29,30 'I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.'

Following, Jesus, and His apostles I oppose 'wolves within the fold', deceivers who 'distort the truth' for their own purposes. If you do not wish to take part, don't stand on the sidleines as a critic.

Why won't you believe what God says about creation day-length?

Do you also believe death was in the world before sin, contrary to Scripture?
---Warwick on 8/26/09

1stCliff you mistitled Morris' book calling it the 'Genesis Account.' You claimed Morris said there were 3000 kinds. You now say Morris "suggested" there were 3,000 kinds. Also untrue. What Morris says (p.97) is he believes Adam could 'note and name' 3,000 kinds in 5 hours. Then about the 3,000 kinds Morris writes 'Clearly this number seems more than adequate to meet the needs of the case.'

Remember Adam was created perfect, was acting within God's will, and not the end result of 6,000 years of the curse, as we are today. You presume, with no basis for it, to know what Adam's intellectual abilities were.

As Lee would say:

Assumption Assumption Assumption
---Warwick on 8/26/09

As regards human intellectual abilities I have a friend, a chess player, with extraordinary abilities. I have seen him play and defeat 10 players at one time. Extraordinary. However what is even much more amazing is that he does it whilst blindfolded! Of course his opponents aren't blindfolded.

He wins every time! Consider that Cliff, he has to remember every move on 10 boards, which he has never seen. Is this maybe just a glimpse of the intellect of our, created perfect, ancestors?

You are judging Adam by your limited intellect, as though you set the standard for the possible. But can you play 10 games of chess, blindfolded and win?

Assumption Assumption Assumption
---Warwick on 8/26/09

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Warwick, I said Dr.H.Morris "suggested" 3,000 kinds and the book is "The Genesis Record"
That Adam could note and name this many in 5 hours is coo coo. that's like one every 7 1/2 seconds..for 5 hours straight??? NO NO NO
He was Adam not superman!
God can work miracles, Adam was just a human!
NO matter which way you slice it ,all the events of day 6 could not be "crammed" into 24hours!
The early church fathers didn't swallow this and neither do I!
---1st_cliff on 8/26/09

Again, Lee, you weren't there. To tell someone else that wasn't there that they are making assumptions is quite hypocritical.
Your belief has as many assumptions in it as well, and I believe it is on a shaky foundation. I would like to to hear your foundation for your views, the presuppositions you have that leads you to your conclusions. Is it biological, geological, or something else? What external evidence can you bring to this discussion that would help me consider your viewpoint to be valid?
---MIchael on 8/26/09

To all the consevative creation detractors: Ask yourselves honestly, did any Christian in all of history believe that the earth was flat and that the air was inhabited by demons, that witches made cows give sour milk?

Since much of that stuff has been rejected today, what we really have seen is an 'evolution' in thought about how man views reality.

So sorry there are some that cannot see that God is not limited by our concept of time, that He merely called the periods of His Creation, simply 'days'.

But such is the plight of those who must justify their doctrinal beliefs based upon ASSumptions.
---lee on 8/26/09

Warwick: Your comment to Cliff saya a great deal to all who oppose the clear teachings of scripture.

"Cliff you live on speculations, not trusting the word of God."

The whole of the evolution myth is upheld by the twin pillars of speculation (conjecture) and fraud (hoaxes) for the sole purpose of destroying confidence in the True Creator and His Word.

To all the literal creation detractors: Ask yourselves honestly, did any Christian in all of history believe that the earth was created in more than six, literal, common days prior to the naturalist movement of the early nineteenth century? Why not? Because there was no evolution to demand it!
---jerry6593 on 8/26/09

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warwick,spiritual truth,kingdom truth,truth of jesus and Gods plan for salvation,all need no defense from any man.Whether they believe or not is a God given free will choice,and ultimately will be judged by get so worked up over such a petty issue as whether creation days were days or years really doesn,t even cross my mind.More important is knowing God did it.
---tom2 on 8/26/09

in chapter 2 it says God rested from all his work,do you believe God really needs to rest?or that he even does?I didn,t realize that spirits get tired,and need rest.does this mean God sleeps?
---tom2 on 8/26/09

Warwick, I can't believe a grown man would think like that!
The praying mantis eats her mate after mating . She wraps herself in a cocoon and when the young hatch they feed on her body ,that's the way God created them. Is that not death???
Adam was not created to die!
How long before Eden would be taken over by mosquitoes and rabbits etc.. if no creature died??
Very narrow vision!
Scripture say "death spread to ALL MEN" not creatures!
---1st_cliff on 8/26/09

StrongAxe, the point is not about whether the 6-days were 23+ hours or 24+ hours but whether they are all the same length, as Genesis ch. 1, and Exodus 20:8-11 says.

God says He created in 6-days and as we know 6-days means 6-days.* Both Biblical and secular dictionaries define it this way. God does not transmit confusion and told the Israelites to work 6 of these days and rest the 7th. When this occurred is irrelevant. He says they are to work 6-days because He created in 6-days. How can the 6 days therefore be of different length?

* Interestingly it was Lee who unwittingly supplied the Holman Bible Dictionary definition which says Genesis 1:5 defines a 24hr day!
---Warwick on 8/26/09

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1stcliff BTW you never got back to me regarding your missquoting of Dr Henry Morris' 'Genesis Record.' You claimed Morris said there were 3,000 kinds to be named, which is untrue. In reality Morris theorized that it was not unreasonable to suggest Adam could 'note and name' 3,000 kinds in five hours. He then wrote (p.96, bottom) 'This number seems more than adequate to meet the needs of the case.'

Very different to that which you wrote.

I think it most likely you trawled this off an antiChristian site as you had it factually wrong and had the name of Morris' book wrong as well!
---Warwick on 8/26/09


BOTH those who insist that the first three creation days were not 24 hours AND those who insist that they were 24 hours are speaking from extra-biblical assumptions. The best we can say is the Bible doesn't speak to the issue (probably because it wasn't considered important).

As to the Israelites not knowing what day the Sabbath was: God gave that law to Moses, thousands of years after the Creation. There is no mention of sabbath observances before that, so it is a major assumption that people would remember what week day it was, without a week counting cycle, especially without written records.

How many today can remember what weekday they were born? Or worse, the phase of the moon (a cycle we don't usually count)?
---StrongAxe on 8/25/09

Respectfully Tom it is you who miss the point. Whole books in the new testament are arguments against error. Preaching in churches is aimed at informing, encouraging and also to avoid people drifting into error.

On this site we have many people who claim to know God but are nonetheless promoting antiBiblical beliefs, and some are lead astray, often completely away from Biblical faith, by them.

Know the Truth and the Truth will set you free.

Matthew 18:6,7 speaks of the evil of those who cause others to sin. For someone to lead another away from Biblical faith is a sin. Also to walk away from faith is Jesus is a sin.

I believe the Truth worth defending, as did Jesus and the apostles.
---Warwick on 8/25/09

1stCliff, I am 'programmed': by God's word and the Holy Spirit, therefore your error is obvious. You cannot fool anyone who knows the Truth.

Your scant Biblical knowledge makes it difficult to communicate with you.

Genesis 1:29,30 says God provided only plant life for food, for man and animals.

Man was only told he could eat meat post-flood-Genesis 9:3.

Cliff you live on speculations, not trusting the word of God.

If you knew and trusted Scripture you would know the only gospel is based only upon the historical fact that death entered the world because of sin. Therefore before sin no 'nephesh Chayah' creature could have died.
---Warwick on 8/25/09

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again the point missed.God has said that if a man says there is no God,he is a fool,and I agree. Why?Because I believe God exists.My point here is God does not argue with men about his word,or even his existance,why should we./ He HAS put the holy spirit into the world to convict the hearts of men,thru the hearing of the word,not the arguing about the word.
---tom2 on 8/25/09

Warwick, You remind me of a robot who thinks only as "programed"
When God told Adam not to eat the food of the certain tree lest you"die" Did Adam ask "please Lord what do you mean DIE?"
Since they didn't question it they must have had some familiarity by seeing creatures die!
2Pet.12 says animals were born naturally to be destroyed. (eaten)
God listed all the "clean " animals that could be eaten in the dietary laws of the Israelites!
Eating animals was no way connected to "sin"!
---1st_cliff on 8/25/09

But Lee we know your confusion stems not from any lack of Scriptural evidence but that the Scriptural evidence contradicts your long-ages/evolutionary faith, therefore any relevant Scripture must either be rejected or ignored.

Your view undermines the one and only gospel and likewise all the relevant Scriptural evidence must either be rejected or ignored.

You did reject or ignore the relevant gospel Scriptures didn't you, you naughty boy!

Such an obviious and repetetive pattern you show!

Assumptions, Assumptions, Assumptions?

No Scripture, Scripture, Scripture.
---Warwick on 8/25/09

//Does it matter if 1 day, one earth-rotation day, is 23 hours, 59 minutes or 24 hours and 2 min?

No, During the 1st period of Creation, God called light Day, and darkness he called Night. And (THEN) there was evening and morning, the 1st day.

we don't know the duration before there was evening & morning.

On the 2d period of Creation, God made the dry land. We don't know if that process was completed in a 24 hour period, or took thousands of earth rotations.

In the 3rd period, God made vegetation THEN there was evening & morning. Again, there may have been an unknown duration with thousands of earth rotations b4 the morning occurred.

think otherwise? Assumptions, Assumptions, Assumptions.
---lee on 8/25/09

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Again master Cliff do your research. In Genesis 1:29,30 God gave plants for man and animals to eat.

In Genesis 2:19 God commanded Adam to name 'each living creature' (Hebrew nephesh chayah) and you will notice not one plant is included.

Therefore were living creatures (nephesh chayah) given for animals to eat? No, plants were given to eat.

Nonetheless this is a side-track of your invention. The point is that by claiming death of man occurred before sin, Lee and a few others are destroying the only historical foundation for the only gospel. Maybe they have another gospel (Galatians 1:6, 2 Corinthians 11:4) or just haven't thought it through, or prefer man's stories to God's truth?
---Warwick on 8/25/09

Likewise Glenn if I said I want you to work on my house (yes it needs a few repairs) for the next 6 days, but definitely not on the 7th, would you know what day the seventh was? Of course you would, because you can both read and count. But some have problems with this. They would probably turn up on the 7th day and disturb my sleep-in. They won't get paid!
---Warwick on 8/25/09

Lee you obsess about '24hours' don't you. Does it matter if '1 day', one earth-rotation day, is 23 hours and 59 minutes or 24 hours and 2 minutes? Surely not, we would still call it '1 day', wouldn't we!

You fail to grasp the point of Exodus 20:8-11, and 31: 12-15:

You see God said they were to work for 6 days, rest the 7th.
BUT, Anyone working the 7th was to be put to death.
BUT you claim the first 3 of God's 6 days were of unknown length.
Therefore according to you, the Israelites, who like us, were living one earth-rotation day at a time, could not know when the 7th day was!
Therefore they would have innocently worked on day 7 and been executed.

What nonsense! No illumination there at all!
---Warwick on 8/25/09

If a plumber agreed to come to your house tomorrow, but he shows up three weeks later, would he have kept his word? If he said that there was no proof that tomorrow means the next day, would you agree? Problem: socially inept churlish men in their 40s who probably can convert numbers into base two and twelve in their head, but don't know the Bible very well. Solution: submit to God, and if you're not disqualified, get a good wife. God uses them to civilize brutes.
---Glenn on 8/25/09

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1stCliff I am not aware that I evade anything. I answered your question with Scripture and you call this evasion. Interesting!

In reality it is you who is trying to evade the point. The point being whether the 6 days of creation are of equal length as Scripture says. I note that no one who opposes this Scriptural view has been able to find even one Scripture to support their case. They have no Biblical case, only worldly ideas.

Secondly I pointed out that those Christians who hold to evolution/long-ages undermine the gospel. Again they have no Scripture which supposts their view.

What sort of a Christian is it who persists in an antiBiblical view which destroys the historical foundation for the gospel?
---Warwick on 8/25/09

Warwick, bless you.
I knew God made man, not evolution!

But, I came in to this believing the 6 days, could have been of different length.
Even billions of years, in a day!
Only because, I had no problems with it!
I always said if God wanted too!

I see now, thank you! In truth!
It is not of God, but of man. Away for me, of justify an answer not given in scripture.
Yes, and away of opening a door, for the possibility of doubt In God power!

I understand now, why!
The days where of equal length!
Bless you!

Ps. 1st cliff
Food! Look again!
---TheSeg on 8/25/09

Warwick//If the six days of creation were not of the same length, how could the Israelites know when the Sabbath day was, refrain from work, and avoid execution?

We await your illumination

Answer is that there is no requirement to view the 6 periods of Creation as being of equal duration.

Hope that this illumination breaks thru your darkness on this issue.

Furthermore, if you want to use scripture, please tell the world where you find that all the days of creation were only 24 hour duration. It just ain't there!

Assumptions! Assumptions! Assumptions!
---lee on 8/25/09

Warwick,Avoiding the Question (as usual)
Just show me (us) one scripture that says creatures,apart from man are included in this "death because of sin"
God said (before Adam sinned) that the creatures were to serve as food,which means they would have to be killed..
---1st_cliff on 8/25/09

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1stCliff, as in times before old chap your question is redundant, being answered by Scripture, as it should be.

Rom. 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.'

And again 17 'For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.'

Romans 6:23 'for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.'

Let us not worry about opinion, let us stick to Scripture.
---Warwick on 8/25/09

Lee, I assume nothing. I quote Scripture, you don't, as Scripture contradicts your nonsense.

You falsely say 'As already pointed out to Warwick, 'day' took on a totally different meaning and characteristics after the sun was created.'

God's word and His Word know nothing of this. In Genesis 1:5 God defines day and shows He created in 6 of these. He confirms this in Exodus 20:8-11 saying He created in 6 days.

A question for you Lee:

Exodus 31:12-17 explains that anyone found working on the 7th day was to be executed.

If the six days of creation were not of the same length, how could the Israelites know when the Sabbath day was, refrain from work, and avoid execution?

We await your illumination.
---Warwick on 8/25/09

It should be obvious now this is not some technical argument. Those who insist the creation days are not 6 days of equal length do so for nonBiblical reasons. Otherwise they would quote Scripture to defend their view, but they don't.

They hold to their antiBiblical belief as they have accepted evolution/long-ages as truth. Their authority is therefore man, not God. Their view is contrary to Scripture for many reasons but most especially because it destroys the historical foundation of the gospel. But you must notice that they do not contradict this fact, nor seem concerned about it. Are they not wolves within the fold?

1 Corinthians 15:45 says Adam was the first man but Lee believes man was around for milennia before Adam.
---Warwick on 8/25/09

is it not right {not} it is not right!

If a man, tell someone in front of me. There is no God.
I will say! I will give you, evolution! I will give you, the big bang!
Just tell me, what blew-up? From nothing! Even with m

The simplest of cells, can not be made!
But people believe its a proven fact!
With no proof, how can this be?
This is a lie! The schools are teaching it, as fact!
And God has been, ask to leave!

I think you can see where this is all going!
So yes, yell, fight! Pick-up your sword!
The word of truth! Put on all your armor.
So many have been fool, already!
And may God bless you!
---TheSeg on 8/25/09

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Earl, faith is not limited to spiritual matters. We all excercize faith in the worldly part of our lives. By faith I board an aeroplane, by faith accepting it is properly serviced, safe and not flown by a nutcase.

It is also by faith that I believe in creation (as per Genesis) but not blind faith as Romans 1:20 explains.

You wrote 'Scientists trust their work because it is testable over and over with equal results.Faith not needed here.'

As I pointed out the past cannot be tested by the scientific method. Therefore microbe-to-man evolution, which is claimed to have happened in the past, and not happening today, cannot be proved or disproved by the scientific method.
---Warwick on 8/24/09

And on the way, I have seen dogs change color, size, attitude. I have seen and heard some of the strangest things, one can believe, as far as births.

But in all this, I do not believe, I can not believe a monkey can become a man.
God said, I made man, I give him life and I give him spirit. And to this end, even if a man, puts a monkey in to a box and come out with a man!
I will not, I can not believe in evolution!

For that matter, its just as possible, Satan put all the things there! I dont know.
All, I know for sure is, God made all living! So, let the dead bury their dead!
---TheSeg on 8/24/09

again you miss the point,what in the world makes you believe that God needs your help defending the bible,aka the word?We as believers are to deliver the message to a lost world,not debate it with them.It is their choice with conviction by the holy spirit to accept it,or reject it.all believers know God made everything,we dont need anyones help,and we dont have to understand it all.I agree with seg,all this arguing only gegrades believers in the eyes of non believers,and doesn,t show the love we profess we have for the lost.Again Gods word needs no defending,truth is and always will be truth.
---tom2 on 8/24/09

Warwick, Is this more of your expert interpretation IE *death did not occur until Adam sinned*?
Sure for humans ,but animals have a natural "life cycle"
The "natural" life cycle of the "mayfly" is as short as one day!...nothing to do with sin!
---1st_cliff on 8/24/09

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//Unless it is modified by another word, it means either first light to twilight, or one sunset to the next (24 hours).

As already pointed out to Warwick, 'day' took on a totally different meaning and characteristics after the sun was created.

The 1st 3 'days' did not have any sun, twilight or sunset, the last 3 did and we can believe the last 3 days were approximately 24 hours in duration. However, the record does not tell us anything about the duration of the 1st 3 days - something Warwick cannot admit as it would violate his beliefs that are based upon ASSumptions.
---lee on 8/24/09

Genesis creation remains unreliable history ,the sequence is out of order.This you know and science provided us with a legitimate answer as to how plant life must preceed creature life.True,God is the origin of anything.
Par.2,Agreed except prior to his statement-"kind follow it's kind".
Par.4,God is most reliable when man does not put words in his mouth or engage in storytelling without understanding that the story he told may/will someday require updating.
Par.5,6, Have I not clarified ?.Phases of purposeful genetic development ,transitions ,modifications, adaptations and changes I believe have purposely occured(mandated and encouraged) and we may see these transpire in our near or far distant future .
---earl on 8/24/09

Genesis 1 is a non fictional narrative, and Christians believe that God presented an accurate account of the event to Moses. H3117 Yom / day. Unless it is modified by another word, it means either first light to twilight, or one sunset to the next (24 hours). As elsewhere in the Bible, both day used with an ordinal number (first through sixth), and the term evening and morning, means a common day, Exodus 20:11, 31:12-17. Genesis 1:4-5 concerns the earths rotation, and the use of day with night, as elsewhere, means a regular day. If the days were of an indeterminate time, did Adam die at 930 years of age, or was it billions?
---Glenn on 8/24/09

Jesus said, happy are they who believe without seeing.This requires faith.Faith is an experience without the physical contributions we commonly must have to prove what is and what is not.Therefore faith is pointing and referenceing to all that is not on the physical element chart and that is spirit.To recognize spirit one must experience spirit in the thinking parts of mind.There will be "no (physical)sign given".Experience within the self is self evident and it is the constant every morning wake up call asking us if we have it .Scientists trust their work because it is testable over and over with equal results.Faith not needed here.
---earl on 8/24/09

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I agree, is it not right to talk about these things. Even to argue, yell or even fight over it.
If I have to hit a man, what better way then with the word of God! If only war were done this way. I can see nothing better then two or more men doing just this. (and women!)

The word clearly said every man is given a measure of faith. And you build there on!

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

If we dont help each other, well then are we lost? I believe not!
God Bless!
---TheSeg on 8/24/09

Tom I do not believe I miss the point at all. The Bible is indeed a spiritual book but it is also historical reality. It is the ultimate truth of our origins, our present and our future, revealed by Him who made it all.

Genesis is not essentially a spiritual message but a historical record. The NT writers are very clear that the historical events of Genesis ch. 1-3 are the only foundation, the historical basis for the need of Jesus to come, die and rise again for our salvation.

What you call 'shamelessly debating the word' I, and others would call defending God's Truth. Defending it against dangerous faith-destroying error.
---Warwick on 8/24/09

Tom (cont) some champion a view where death existed for long-ages before sin, just a necessary part of the evolutionary process. But God calls death 'the last enemy to be destroyed' 1 Co. 15:26!

Their view undermines the gospel. See Rom. 5:12 'Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-'

1 Co. 15:22 'For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.'

Is this only a spiritual message or historical Truth? If this is Truth death came after sin, not before.

Unimportant squabbling, I don't think so.
---Warwick on 8/24/09

Earl my blog commencing 'Lee I believe the Bible is, from cover to cover, God's word.' was meant for you, not Lee.
---Warwick on 8/24/09

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you guys ,all miss the point,or should I say truth.Though the bible does give some scientific facts within its pages,it is a book written to educate,and groom mans spirit,and more importantly reveal God,and his truth.What truth?spiritual truth.his righteousness,his love,his plan for the world.shamelessly debating the word is pointless,and doesn,t edify the word at all.
---tom2 on 8/24/09

Earl I wrote in reply to your comments such as 'Evolution ,in today's standard usage,does not require faith.' As I pointed out the evolutionary story begins with first life evolving over eons into all the variety we see today. This definitely requires faith as it cannot be substantiated by the scientific method, nor can we observe it happening today.

Faith is not just a religious thing but that which we exercise daily. I race a car and head into bends at breakneck speed, braking at the last moment, in the faith the brakes will work.

You have faith in radiometric dating and such where I don't. It is not that these methods lack accuracy but that when secondary evidence exists radiometric dates are shown to be totally wrong.
---Warwick on 8/24/09

Lee I believe the Bible is, from cover to cover, God's word. If we can't trust all on what basis do we trust any?

It is God who said His creatures would reproduce after their own kind, and I happily accept He is a far more reliable and truthful witness than any man.

I can only imagine the early humans saw 'kind' reproducing 'kind', amazed to see variety within a kind developing.

I am surprized you appear to consider man a more reliable source than God. Maybe I misunderstand you.

I do not believe God used evolution at all. 'There is no God in evolution, and no evolution in God's word.'

The order of creation is totally different to the proposed order of evolution.
---Warwick on 8/24/09

Warwick,thanks for your reply as well, when one speaks of a kind following it's own kind there is a recognized time gap that is unrecorded up until mankind began to appear and observed this "kind following it's own kind".Sure, Adam named the animals but prior to man's first day of existance there was no man to record observation on this matter.
Therefore I dismiss the account of recorded history in the text you draw your information from for this obvious reason.
True, science is inconclusive on many issues here but at what time point did this "following" maintain percise course as we now observe?Pre Adamic era is wide open to discussion .If God said it is true from the first living cell then solidify his statement.
---earl on 8/23/09

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Warwick,p2,I do not recognize the current evolutional theories .They are mostly supposed or theorized without a recognized Divine source as supplying the energies to establish life here on earth.
I do however recognize our divine source manuplating and modifying genetics on the whole spectrum of life ,a so called purposeful evolution.Today,genetic modifications are silent or very slow to observe thus it is true in general observation'kind following it's kind.
To dismiss science on this matter is dismissing our will to learn our origin and development through the ages.
---earl on 8/23/09

There was a man who fell in to a coma, for six years. When he wake-up, he did not believe, the six years had past. The wife that loves him, when ask. Said, it took forever!
One day, will I ask the lord, how long is a day? No! Why?

Maybe because, I am not using time as a ruler, I am using a ruler as a ruler.
By this I say: this is a journey, we are on. By way of a good ruler! For some, it will seem to take longer. Youre father knew this. This is why, he did not tell you how long yours will be.

Dont believe me, one day! Some things are better left unsaid.
God blessed you both
---TheSeg on 8/23/09

Lee you play word games.

One day, today is not exactly 24 hours but we know what one day or six-days means. Maybe you don't!

In Genesis God said He created in 6 days with every Biblical, linguistic, and logical reason to understand they are the same length. You supply no contrary evidence, Biblical or otherwise.

Avoiding your word-games we know from Scripture that the 6 were of equal length, the same earth-rotation days as in Exodus 20:8-11, and today.

In your funny story the Israelites could have made no sense of the Sabbath Commandment-see Exodus 31:12-17. Fortunately for them you are wrong.

How do you imagine extinct life forms in any way support your claims?
---Warwick on 8/23/09

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
God Bless!
---TheSeg on 8/23/09

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Seq if the length of the creation days is not important why does Lee continue to battle so long, hard, and irrationally against what Scripture says about them?

Is it not because he feels condemned by the truth of Genesis, having accepted the evolutionary, long-ages antiBiblical view?

He believes man and animals existed, lived and died long before Adam appeared. However Scripture says death did not occur until Adam sinned. And that Jesus came to overturn the consequences of Adam's sin. There is no other gospel-Gal. 1:6.

A question for you: Does it matter if Lee and others promote antiBiblical ideas which contradict Scripture and undermine the historical foundation of the gospel?
---Warwick on 8/23/09

TheSeg - yes we can agree that this issue is really of no great importance and that we must work in the fields of our Lord while there is yet time.

I suspect that some feel an interpretation that the 1st 3 days of creation may not have been of 24 hour duration, somehow affects their belief in the OT sabbath of which they have created another golden calf to worship.
---Lee on 8/23/09

Thanks for your reply Earl but the point still stands that microbe-to-man evolution is in the same situation as Biblical creation. Neither can be scientifically proved. Both are accepted by faith.

From my studies over a few decades, assisted by scientist friends and associates I can see that evolution is unproveable and contradicted by much of the evidence.

Conversely the Biblical record fits with the evidence. For just one example in Genesis God said He created His creatures to reproduce after their own 'kind.' This is what we see, cats have cats, dog, have dogs and humans have humans.

Conversely evolutionists claim one 'kind' has become another. We do not see this.
---Warwick on 8/23/09

If you know what day it is!
Do you know the year?

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Just a hope you see
God bless
---TheSeg on 8/23/09

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Let us listen to what Scripture has said... If it was said according to scripture 6 days and den 1 rest our sabbath day... Let it be soo... Let us look on to Christ... The beginning and finisher of our Faith Brothers... Let us look no where else anymore for he is there waiting for us.. Let us where our new garments of rightousness and follow the Lord with our Holiest Faith in him.. If you lack Faith ask for more faith. Let us never to fall away from the Lord and Trust in him completely in all things.. These things i ask from our lord and savior Amen
---john_camping on 8/23/09

//Is there any reason (other than a religious faith in evolution) to believe that the first three days of Creation were of any different length than the last three?

Yes, there is!

In fact the Genesis record does NOT specify the duration of the first 3 days. God is not bound by our system of time and could have spend eons in His creation during the 1st 3 days.

Let there be Light - the 1st day. It is ludicrous to believe the light from God had to be the same as from the sun created on the 4th day.

It may have taken eons to separate the waters from the waters to create dry land.

Finally, we have fossil remains of ancient plant life and animals that no longer exist today.
---Lee on 8/23/09

Warwick, The early church fathers and writers were 2,000 years closer to creation than we are, and they didn't subscribe to a 24hr creation day.Would you accuse them of being "unchristian"?
One does not have to be a Dr. of Divinity or rocket scientist to recognise that all that happened on day "6" would take more than 24hours!
You're cramming it to suit your own interpretation . Check out Gen 2.4.KJV for proof! 6 days=1???
---1st_cliff on 8/23/09

Warwick, Written biblical history is compromised -looses credibility -when data provided is out of sequence.this has already been pointed out.I do believe the standard by which science determines ages of materials tested are not completely accurate but overall the scientific community is headed in more accurate direction on this matter greater knowledge will some day surface.I do not see that science and biblical records will ever agree because the christian community has solidified history as a truth prior to the development of sciences that involve the spacial matter formations .The idea that any book is a holy book -sacred and un defiled or especially without fault- is a fetish.The bible cannot speak nor has a consciousness.
---earl on 8/23/09

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Earl, microbe-to-man evolution as distinct from speciation/natural selection is a faith. It is in the same boat as Biblical creation as these events are said to have happened in the past. Therefore neither Biblical creation nor microbe-to-man evolution can be proved by the scientific method of testability, observability, repeatability.

There is of course evidence but from my research this evidence better fits with Biblical creation.

The Christian has a written record of the past which claims to be God's Truth. The evolutionist has no written record, only the same evidence (as distinct from proof) that anyone has.

I believe in Biblical creation by faith, but not blind faith as God's word says- Romans 1:20
---Warwick on 8/23/09

Jerry ... I'm not going to try giving answers to your question ... just to point out that your question is itself faulty, on two grounds

Firstly, the length of time that God took to create the structure of Earth and its environment in the Universe (ie. the first four "days", however long they may have been) is nothing to do with Evolutionary theory.

Secondly, Evolution is (or would be if it occurred) a physical process, and not spiritual, and therefore those who accept it cannot have a "religious faith" in it.
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/22/09

There is every Biblical reason to understand that the 6 days of creation are of the same length, equating to 6 ordinary days, as we live them today. And as mankind has lived them since day 6.

God has defined 'one day' in Genesis 1:5. Biblical and linguistic experts concur. God having set the pattern for a day describes the following 5 in the same terms. God confirms the length of His creation days in Exodus 20:8-11.

In all the argument which has ensued those who disagree with the above have not been forthcoming in providing any Biblical support for their view.

It is obvious the contrary view comes not from Scripture but from mans evolutionary long-ages beliefs.
---Warwick on 8/22/09

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