Do Angels Have A Sin Nature
\\ Cluny: Because you say there's no such thing as the sin nature, doesn't make it fact.\\
You've gotten it backwards.
The fact is there is no such thing as a "sin nature."
Therefore I say it.
See if you can find the formula "sin nature" anywhere in the Bible.
---Cluny on 10/3/09|
"Josef: Just curious. How do you explain Matthew 9:10 regarding the "sinners" who ate with Jesus?"
Leon I apologize for the delay in responding to your question, today is my first day on line since my last response.
These are simply those the self righteous would have judged as 'sinners' (habitually sinful), base on their perceptions, of their actions. The same is done to this day, perhaps they were people who enjoyed gambling, drinking, smoking, partying etc.
However, we know that at that time the Father had concluded that all had sinned and fallen short of His glory, there were none righteous, therefore those who would judge, accuse, and condemn, were as much "sinners" as those labeled as such:o)
---Josef on 10/2/09|
Cluny: Because you say there's no such thing as the sin nature, doesn't make it fact. I believe there's reasoned confusion in the conclusions you've drawn based upon your philosophical (ontological) rationalization, so I'll not go any further on the subject. Peace! :)
---Leon on 10/1/09|
Cluny: I do agree, sin is UNnatural (abnormal). But, in our "fallen" human nature we're all born with the UNnatural desire to sin. Doesn't that mean it's an integral part of who we are, i.e., NATURAL BORN sinners? ||
But that's not the same thing as the non-existent sin nature.
To say that there is one is to say that there was some kind of second act of creation--or de-creation, devolution, if you will--that counteracted what God created.
---Cluny on 9/30/09|
Katherine- Lucifer & one-third of the angels that rebelled against God were cast out of Heaven. Jesus Christ musingly remarked, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven." (Luke 10:18) 2Peter 2:4 "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness...." Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation...." Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!"
---Betty on 9/29/09|
Well,it certainly appears that at one time at least they did.Satan who was named Lucifer at one time according to scripture.Not only Satan but a third of the angels were rebelious and cast down to the Earth after a battle with Gabrial and the other good angels.I believe these angels are what we call demons and they still serve Satan and will spend eternity in Hell with him some day.
---shirley on 9/28/09|
Katherine --- I guess you know that some readers here may gag and spit and sputter, because you said //he [Satan] was and is an angel (keep in mind he hasn't been cast out of heaven yet)//. What! Satan in Heaven? They've been writing that even a Christian, with UNREPENTED sin, cannot enter Heaven and the prescence of God!
Like you, I'm of the opinion that there's a lot we will not know/understand until Jesus comes (or we go to Him). Then He will have a pile of questions to answer!
---Donna66 on 9/28/09|
I agree, Donna. There is none righteous other than God/Jesus. (I consider them one and the same.) Since Satan obviously sinned and is continuing this kind of sinful attitude, and he was and is an angel (keep in mind he hasn't been cast out of heaven yet), then yes... Angels can and do sin. Don't worry, the majority of them don't. This is what we know, but what we won't know until He comes again is what exactly caused any angel to sin in the first place. It'd be an interesting answer!
---Katherine on 9/27/09|
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
The same Paul who wrote Rom 7:14 (about his life as a Christian)
Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
This sounds to me like sin is QUITE a natural state for unredeemed man.
---Donna66 on 9/27/09|
Angels & humans beings are created by God as free-will agents, capable of making choices -- right (to obey God) or wrong (to rebel, sin against God).
Cluny: I do agree, sin is UNnatural (abnormal). But, in our "fallen" human nature we're all born with the UNnatural desire to sin. Doesn't that mean it's an integral part of who we are, i.e., NATURAL BORN sinners?
Josef: Just curious. How do you explain Matthew 9:10 regarding the "sinners" who ate with Jesus?
---Leon on 9/27/09|
I agree with these statements. "There is no such thing as "the sin nature" for anyone, human or otherwise." Sin "is extrinsic, not intrinsic to our human nature." "Sin is something distinct from from our nature." It "is what we do, not what we are." The same is applicable to angels.
Man's nature, the inherent tendencies directing his/her conduct, is human, therefore subject to or indicative of the weaknesses, imperfections, and frailties of a carnally based mentality. Due to this nature, man has a propensity to err in both thought and action. Although Angels are not subject to our innate weaknesses, they are subject to be led by their perceptions as evidenced in their rebellion.
---Josef on 9/27/09|
No, angels are not like men
They...(Luk 20:36)"neither marry, nor are given in marriage:"... But are created by God to live forever and serve God.
Luk 20:36 Neither can they (the dead) die any more: for they are equal unto the angels, and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Men rebel because it is their nature.
Satan did not rebel because of his nature... His rebellion was purely by CHOICE.
---Donna66 on 9/26/09|
miche. Like I said before, There is no such thing as "sin nature", a popular phrase among Evangelical Protestant Christians. According to Saint Paul (Romans 7:14), man is not sinful by nature. Man's nature is not depraved to the core (total depravity). Sin is something distinct from from our nature.
We are born with Ancestral Sin- Ever person born comes into the world facing mortality (corruptible), we die. We also are born with a inclination to sin, pain/suffering, etc. Sin is a force within us.
Nothing I said contradict our Savior, I simply restated Saint Paul's position.
---Ignatius on 9/26/09|
I do not see that sin is a natural state of human kind.I inherited the potential to sin not sin itself.My nature is in development-a work in progress-in another time to achieve perfection.Saying this indicates our nature is an inmature one striving for a future perfection.Maturity is on the horizion in our future.Our nature is human and someday possibly spiritual.
---earl on 9/26/09|
Ignatius, Jesus says different. We are born with these things in us. He says man's heart is like this-
16And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile the man.
19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
---miche3745 on 9/26/09|
If angels didn't have a sin-like-nature, then the most beautiful angel 'satan' & the 3rd of the angels would not have been cast out of heaven.
1st Cori 6 v 3. Angels are subject to God their creator. Just like us humans are God's creation. We are to bid His service & if we obbey not, we send ourselves to damnation.
---Lawrence on 9/26/09|
There is no such thing as "sin nature", a popular phrase among Evangelical Protestant Christians. According to Saint Paul (Romans 7:14), man is not sinful by nature. Man's nature is not depraved to the core (total depravity). Sin is something distinct from from our nature.
Angels do not have a sin nature, neither do humans. Sin is what we do, not what we are.
---Ignatius on 9/26/09|
Regardless of where angels live or what world we live on ,wether we humans are beings ascending or angels are beings descending all have freedom to choose their destiny.All are created for the enlargement of the kingdom.Neither angels or humans as we are possessed by another's will.The "nature" of humans or angels this side of someday acquiring perfection is the "potential to sin".We and angels are here to establish a kingdom that eventuates in time as a form of perfection.Angels would be normally regarded as sin-less but this is not so in our universe where 1/3 have defected.Our nature is human with potentials -a new birth is required to transcend the human nature.
---earl on 9/25/09|
Angels and demons are doing what they were designed to do. They have always been just as they are now.
---mugwump on 9/25/09|
Satan > in Heaven, itself + not satisfied with how Heaven is + Jesus was not good enough for him = "kind" of conceited and narcissistic. Shows how the ones grumping can be the ones who are spoiling things . . . like I have done and still can do . . . because of my sin nature. So, yeah . . . I "guess" he'd have a sin nature, doing that, if this is what my own sin nature has me doing. And such pride got him kicked out > pride comes from a sin nature. But do the *holy* angels have a sinful nature? They are called *holy*. But angels have fallen. So, I'd say they don't have such a nature, but they need to watch themselves to make sure they stay that way . . . like Satan didn't.
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/25/09|
There is no such thing as "the sin nature" for anyone, human or otherwise.
Sin is not part of our original ontology. It is extrinsic, not intrinsic to our human nature, and therefore is UNnatural.
---Cluny on 9/25/09|