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Signs Of A False Prophet

How do you distinguish the false christs and false prophets from the true Christ and true Prophets? Since the false and true ones both do signs and wonders?

Join Our Christian Dating and Take The False Gospels Bible Quiz
 ---Paul9594 on 10/27/09
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The true are from the Lord and glorify the Lord, but the false are not. Just as Jannes and Jambres the sorcerers in Moses day foolishly opposed Moses' works by all of them turning their staffs into serpents, but Moses' staff gobbled up the two ungodly serpents and their works were vanquished.
---Eloy on 11/11/09

Paul, youre missing a huge word.


Noone will see Gods kingdom without being justified (declared "innocent" or not guilty)

Do you believe you are justified by following Gods laws or by the precious blood of Christ?

Galatians 5:4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace"
---JackB on 11/11/09

Lee 1538:
Paul tries to separate faith AND belief from obedience, BITthese cannot be separated.
Can you separate true faith FROM works?
He who has no faith has no belief, has no reason to obey God.

But what man truly has faith and believes God yet refuses to obey Him?

Abraham believed God, and was righteous because of his faith, but his faith resulted in obedience to God, which brought God's blessings (Genesis 22:16-18).

Abraham's heirs were blessed because of his obedience to God's commandments, statutes and laws (Genesis 26:3-5). It's both, because of Abrahams obedience/faith, all the nations of the earth would blessed (verse 18), in effect making them heirs through their own obedience (Isaiah 56).
---Paul9594 on 11/10/09

I once had a lady visit my Church said she was a prophet, I asked her about Pauls words in 1 COR. Re. women being silent in Church. She said Paul was a chauvinist and she did not believe him. A false Prophet is someone who does not believe the plain teaching of the word of God in the Bible.
---albert on 11/10/09


You MEANwell, but only in the mind of the some Jews exists Jewish Law/traditions. What was committed to the Jew? The Oracles of God, Does Paul say, the oracles of Jewish Law? Romans 3:1-2

In truth, ISRALITES received the Torah before Jews.

Desiring to be an engineer,

If The School Master of engineering taught you precepts to be an engineer. Would you leave all the teaching behind?
Or would you practice what the school master of engineering taught you the mindset TO BE LIKE an engineer?
Desiring to be like Christ:

Let the school master, Law help keep you in the mindset of Christ in the Spirit, its power.

Pauls words are misinterpreted/translated to contradict him by the apostates
---Paul9594 on 11/10/09

Gen 38:7 And Er, Judah's first-born, was wicked in the sight of Jehovah. And Jehovah slew him.
8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and perform the duty of a husband's brother unto her, and raise up seed to thy brother. (ASV)

How did Judah know that this was Onans duty? He lived hundreds of years before the codification at Mount Sinai!

All the children of the faith down through history followed the Torah.
Do you?

Where do you begin? With faith in Christ keep The 10 commandments memorize them, keep the Sabbath, You may rest or you may do good with you Father in mind, the Sabbath is prophetic .

More on this later! According to Christs teaching Torah/Gospels.
---Paul9594 on 11/10/09

The law is Insufficient if we try to keep it with our own strength, we can never fulfill the law to its spiritual intent and would receive the wages of sin death because we miss the mark of His perfection.

But with a faith in Christ's Holy Spirit, another realm ... in the power of Spirit!

With faith in the power of the Spirit, it will help you circumcise your flesh to walk in the Spirit of what is Holy Just and Good,
Romans 7:12 or do we contradict Paul?

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling as Peter said.

Do some of His children have powerless faith in the powers of His Blood and His Holy Spirit because of the apostates teaching?
---Paul9594 on 11/10/09

Distinctions of unclean and unclean animals are in the Law of Moses, you fail to notice, but not RIGHTEOUS Noah.

Gen/7:20. Righteous, Noah knew of EVERY clean animal to offer Him.

Is adultery in the Law of Moses?
Taking another man's wife, as in Genesis 20, The lord was going to punish Abimelech FOR DOING so, if the king did not return Abrahams wife!

Genesis 4:4-7 it is written: "But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. Yahweh looked with favor on Abel and HIS OFFERING,
How Abel know what was the right way to Sacrifice? How did the righteous Noah know these distinctions?

Because MosesORyou taught THEMwhen both of were not alive andYOU DONT UNDERSTAND TORAH?
---Paul9594 on 11/10/09

Your conscience given by Father is marred by precepts of apostates.

For your benefit grow into the Torah meaning, teaching/instructions, of your Father, some are in the form of COMMANDMENTS. With a faith marred by the precepts of the apostates, how much can one grow into the benefits of the Torah?

You the desire of the Spirit, righteous, but have not the full understanding of righteousness because of the precepts of men.

Would you Teach?

Do we then make Law of NONE EFFECT through faith? NO we establish the Law. (Romans/3:31)

Then teach the opposite?

Well neither would Paul! Forget the interpretations/translations contradicting Paul sayings, theyre of the apostates!
---Paul9594 on 11/10/09

Paul9594--- Jesus is equal to the Holy Spirit. In the flesh, He was a Jew raised to observe Jewish law and traditions. The Jewish Law is HOLY, JUST, and good. I AGREE.
But the LAW is insufficient.

Rom 8:3-4 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh.
THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED by FAITH.
But after that FAITH is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster.
---Donna66 on 11/8/09

Donna66, Gary:

Gary said:

What is better? Being led by The Spirit, or following laws? Those who are truly led by The Spirit no longer need the law.

If following the Law WITH ITS SPIRITUAL original intent, IS NOT walking by the Spirit.

Then why did/DOES Jesus fulfill the Law? So He can be seen as pitiful?

Are you saying Christ was not truly led by the Spirit because He followed Law?

OR Even Christ cannot walk in the Spirit? SO He DOES the lesser, fulfill the Law?

Or did/DOES Jesus fulfill THE LAW because the Law is HOLY, JUST, and good?

How do we LEARN what is holy just and good?

By the precepts TAUGHT within the Law and Prophets or by precepts of the apostates?
---Paul9495 on 11/8/09

//but we know that is not all they need to learn about living holy// I don't see that in Acts 15. There is no discussion about what they should be taught at a later time.
If they believed as you do, wouldn't somebody have mentioned it, saying "of course, later on...." or " they will need to learn the other dietary laws sometime, too"

Where, in the New Testament, were the dietary laws ever stressed as being necessary for anybody?
---Donna66 on 11/8/09

Paul-**But we know that is not all they need to learn about living holy. We dont lay everything on them at once because they will be totally overloaded by it all.

So you maintain that the Jerusalem council gave an temporary injunction to Gentile converts, that Gentiles eventually needed to follow all the Mosaic laws including the dietary, Sabbathical and other laws that were strictly jewish.

Sorry but that would have made a heretic out of the Apostle Paul who taught that one needs to live by faith alone in Christ alone. Romans 1:17.

yes, I can see you are out in whacko whacko religion land.
---Lee1538 on 11/8/09

Gen 26:5 Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

It is clear that Abrahams obedience was an obedience of faith to the specific commands of God given to him and not anything of the Mosaic law. There are numerous NT texts that show Abraham's promises and blessing were NOT based on law or law keeping but only on faith. Therefore the argument that Genesis 26:4,5 implies that Abraham keep the Mosaic laws is in direction contradiction to the clear statements of Scripture.

Consider Romans 4:13 that Abrahams descendents would be heir of the world not thru the law but thru the righteousness of faith.

View also Romans 4:16 and Galatians 3:18 which also addresses this issue.
---Lee1538 on 11/7/09

The context of Acts 15 is proseletyzing. Saying that one must become a JEW by the act of circumcision before one is eligible to be saved. The council is saying that is not the case.
They gave commands to start withabstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled and from blood. These are the basics so fellowship with the body of believers could be facilitated. Much like we would tell a new convert today to stop hanging out at the bars, sleeping with his girlfriend, and being a brawler. But we know that is not all they need to learn about living holy. We dont lay everything on them at once because they will be totally overloaded by it all.
---Paul9594 on 11/6/09

Dear lee1538:

What law did Abraham keep?

The Law of Moses as Abmilech King of Gerar knew, from Abrahams time!

Gen 20:2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She [is] my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar SENT, AND TOOK SARAH.

Gen 20:4 But Abimelech had not come NEAR HER: and he said, Lord, will thou slay a RIGHTEOUS NATION? Abimelech knew of the Lord who could slay His nation for taking His wife Sarah!

This King SHOWING fear of God, Genesis 20:4 understanding to not take a mans wife, to not commit adultery. Of the Law of Moses!

The kings men feared even as Abmilech did, breaking our Fathers law before it was written down by Moses. Read entire chapter 20 of Genesis
---Paul9594 on 11/6/09

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I cannot say that Abraham kept the Mosaic law since that included the Sanctuary. But He knew the Law of GOD not just His conscience.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Sin has to have a law to break to be a sin.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Gen 31:36 And Jacob was wroth, and chode with Laban: and Jacob answered and said to Laban, What [is] my trespass? what [is] my sin, that thou hast so hotly pursued after me?
---Samuel on 11/6/09

Lee1538 you asked:

What law did Abraham keep?

The same Law given to Moses which was same law which Noah kept!

How did Noah know the distinctions between clean and unclean animals? Because the swine told Noah about it?

The distinctions between clean and unclean animals are found in:

Gen. 7:2: Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee seven and seven, the male and his female, and of the beasts that are not clean two, the male and his female:

And AGAIN then after the Flood, Noah,knowing between EVERY clean ANIMAL:

Genesis 8:20:
And Noah builded an altar unto Jehovah, AND TOOK OF EVERY CLEAN BEAST, and of every clean bird, and offered burnt-offerings on the altar.
---Paul9594 on 11/6/09

Abraham was a friend of God not because he observed the law but because he believed. It was his faith that God had in view.

Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousnessand he was called a friend of God.

The law that Abraham observed was the natural law of his conscience. As he walked with God, his conscience became a reliable guide.
---lee on 11/6/09

Paul - ***Do you condemn me for wanting to be like Abraham? A man of faith who also kept the law.

What law did Abraham keep?

If you say the Mosaic law which came centuries later, then you are some place out in whacko whacko land!!!!
---Lee1538 on 11/5/09

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Dear Mark you said:
Dietary law and eating with unwashed hands do not defile you, or put another way, ARE NOT SIN.

From your saviors lips:

Matthew 19:17
.[there is] none good but one, [that is], God: BUT IF YOU WILL enter into life, keep the commandments.

Does He say void the food commandments? Instead of Christ voiding any part of the law, with His own lips He said... Matthew 5:19

Why break food commandments that suppress your bodys immune system, and are toxic?

For your insight on sin, per Christs beloved, the apostle John:

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Breaking food commandments is sin.

---Paul9594 on 11/5/09

Colossians 2:8 Take heed lest there shall be any one that maketh spoil of you through his philosophy and vain deceit, AFTER THE TRADITION OF MEN, after the RUDIMENTS of the world, AND NOT after Christ:

Dear friend of the very elect, the true Christ possesses the mindset and manners of the Torah, do you desire to be Christ like?

Believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to give you His likeness. Do not be conformed to the likeness of a Torahless Christ.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day:

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the things to come
---Paul9594 on 11/5/09

Do you condemn me for wanting to be like
Abraham? A man of faith who also kept the law.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Do we relize that the Law was before Moses?

Or Do you reject me for wanting to grow like David? Read His psalms showing respect and reverance for the law.

Or do you hate me for wanting to grow and be Christ like? Who was the living Torah.
Do not His children desire to be Christ like?

For which do you stone me?
---Paul9594 on 11/5/09

Paul //But how do we love one another, is this just by emotion?

Of course not, love is demonstrated by action, ever read the epistle by James?

James 2: 15-16 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?

Read also Romans 13:9-10 The commandments, You shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet, and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Hopefully these verses will convince you of what I have stated.
---Lee1538 on 11/5/09

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I am surprised that there are still those out there that want to preach what we may eat or drink, what days we are to observe or not observe, how we pray, etc. etc. etc. in accordance to laws given in the Old Covenant to the Jewish nation alone.

Of course, it is human vanity for one to be viewed as 'religious' much like the show the Pharisees put on for themselves to be seen of others. Is not the root cause simply one of pride in ones own sense of righteousness?
---lee on 11/5/09

Hebrews 8 simply refers to the passage in Jeremiah 31, written 600 years before the birth of Jesus. As Lee alluded to, the conenant did not become effective until Jesus shed His blood.

God told the Jews way back then that the old Mosiac covenant was coming to an end.

They choose not to read and believe the prophets.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/5/09


You read without insight.

Matt 15:12 "Then the disciples came and said to Him, Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?"

They were offended because He was telling them that the dietary laws of the Torah were incomplete.

Read farther.

Matt 15:16 "Jesus said, Are you still lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated? But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man"

Dietary law and eating with unwashed hands do not defile you, or put another way, are not sin.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/5/09

Dear Lee1538:

Youre right:

Believe in Jesus AND Love one another.

But how do we love one another, is this just by emotion?

Did not Christ Say?

Matthew 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments HANG all the law and the prophets.

But why do the children of the Father unhinge, unlink the Law and The Prophets from the greatest commandments of love?

Because of bad teaching

The Children of God that make void the Law and Prophets make void

Mat 7:12 ..whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: FOR THIS IS the law and the prophets.

Do His Children read His Lips?
---Paul9594 on 11/5/09

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Dear Lee1538:

Yes! Believe Messiah and love one another.

But how do we love one another, is this just by emotion?

From saviors lips:

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments HANG ALL the law and the prophets.

Why do some of the Children of the Father unhinge, unlinked what He linked together?

Because of the precepts of men!

Children who void the Law and the Prophets also void:

Matthew 7:12 .whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: FOR THIS IS. the law and the prophets.

Your savior never spoke bad of the Law or voided any of it. Why do His Children?
---Paul9594 on 11/5/09

Mike Eaton: Part 1/5

Dear Friend please, lets read the full context:

What is the ISSUE of Matthew Chapter 15?

The Pharisees clearly speak the issue theyre complaining about:

Matthew 15:2
Why do thy disciples TRANGRESS THE TRADITION of the elders?
For they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Dear friend, the issue is TRANGRESSION OF THE TRADITION of the ELDERS, not the Torah dietary laws! Because not washing of the hands to a Pharisee defiled one spiritually!

After all, why make an issue of what is not the issue, in Matthew 15? .the dietary instructions.

Did you know that science has now caught up to the wisdom of God? Unclean animals are toxic and suppress your immune system.
---Paul9594 on 11/5/09

Rod4Him -//Mark, when are you visualizing the Old Covenant being obsolete 600 years before Christ? When the temple was destroyed? Any Scripture?

I believe Mark is referring to the destruction of the Jerusalem temple in 70 the Romans,not the destruction of the temple by the Babylonians in 536 B.C.

When the curtain of the temple was rent (mt.27:51), the New Covenant was initiated and when the temple sacrifices could no longer be observed, the Old Covenant became obsolete.

Heb 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

And this was written prior to the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D.
---Lee1538 on 11/5/09

Mark, when are you visualizing the Old Coverant being obsolete 600 years before Christ? When the temple was destroyed? Any Scripture?

Interesting....I never thought of that before.
---Rod4Him on 11/4/09

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Jesus said:

Matt 15:11 "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man".

Does this contradict the dietary restrictions of the Torah?

I would suggest that you read Hebrews, especially chapter 8. The old covenant has been obsoleted by God. He declared it so 600 years before Jesus. Why do you want to continue in it?
---Mark_Eaton on 11/4/09

Paul - And what are those commandments that John speaks of in 1 John 5:3?

If we look at 1 John 3:22-24 we can see what they are.

'and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ AND love one another, just as he has commanded us. Whoever keeps his commandments abides in him, and he in them. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

It is clear that the 'commandments' of God are two -

1) believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ,


2) Love one another.
---Lee1538 on 11/4/09

The chosen of God are those that receive the seed, the Word of God and bear fruit. But you must bear fruit of the root as evidence of the seed falling on good ground.
Bearing apostate, lawless Christianity is not of the root, Christ!
Any branch (of Christianity) that does not bear the fruit of the root, the true Christ, will be thrown into the fire.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered, and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Many Christians today abide with a false lawless Christ. The true Christ had the mindset and manner of Torah? Do you? Are you growing in this?
---paul9594 on 11/4/09

The True Christ keeps the Father's commanments and does not void them! The false Christs are lawless, Torahless.

It is that simple!

True followers of Christ, who love Him keep His commandments!

If you don't keep His commandmens with faith in Christ, you follow a false lawless Christ.

Please read, your savior's lips:

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous
---Paul9594 on 11/4/09

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Distinguishing false from true prophets of God calls for the gift of God. Pray for the Gift of the discernment of spirits and God will direct you and reveal the true from false prophet. Read Acts 16:16-18. Paul discerned that the damsel was demon possessed not spirit-filled. So I suggest
PRAY FOR DISCERNMENT OF SPIRITS. Thats a gift we all need on the planet
And to all the comments I have seen below: PLEASE Noone has a right to judge: Stop being judgemental on other denominations/people etc. Read Matthew 7:1-12
---laura6946 on 11/4/09


Why do you not answer the question...asked about 4 times now?

Are all of these notable leaders, 'fathers' and 'founders,' of their respective denominations...

...False Prophets?
---scott on 11/3/09

I refer to your primal posted, which I quoted in its entirely, Scott.

You said "MANY DENOMINATIONS"--but you did not provide a single DENOMINATION that set dates, but only individuals.

The Wesleys were loyal priests of the Church of England and were very upset when their followers broke with the Church of England and called themselves Methodists.
---Cluny on 11/2/09

scott...If you think the Southern Baptist Convention doesn't control their local churches, try going into one and speaking in tongues and getting others to pursue the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That local church would be thrown out of the SBC if that were to happen. It has happened many times.
---KarenD on 11/2/09

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"All you have done is to list INDIVIDUALS..." Cluny

That's a difficult argument to make. It's impossible to remove the likes of John and Charles Wesley from the church they founded (Methodist) and to suggest that they didn't speak for that church. Or that Thomas Brightman didn't speak for the Presbyterian church that he is said to be one of the "Fathers" of.

But again I'd ask you, were/are the Wesley's, the Catholic Cardinals, Martin Luther, prominent leaders of The Anglican Church, Assemblies of God, Mennonites, Calvary Chapel, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholic Apostolic Church, Baptist, Anabaptist, etc...

...False Prophets?
---scott on 11/2/09


Billy Graham's Prediction - 2


Therefore the leaders of the Baptist church, including prominent and outspoken ones like Billy Graham, Martin Luther King Jr., etc, are the voices of the denomination, whether you agree with them or not.

Unless you can cite an example of refutation or censure from some Baptist Convention or organization regarding Grahams date setting, you are wrong.

Perhaps you should write the Southern Baptist Convention and have them remove the 17' statue they have erected in his honor. (2006).

But more importantly, in this thread's context, since his prediction obviously failed, is Billy Graham a false prophet?
---scott on 11/2/09


Billy Graham's Prediction - 1

Every Baptist church is autonomous. Every Baptist church, among other things, selects its pastoral leadership, determines its worship form, decides financial matters etc., without outside control or supervision.

Baptist associations of churches, state and national conventions have no authority over a Baptist church. For any one of these organizations to attempt to exercise control over an individual church is to violate a basic Baptist conviction.

---scott on 11/2/09

I observed two so called prophets. One a man, the other a woman. I noticed they both showed up early enough to talk to different Christians and later on they both used information they gathered from different people. One observed a brother walking up the sidewalk with a cane. Later on she made the statement "someone here has a bad problem with their leg". They both commented on things they already knew about. One commented that the prophets in his church had an 80 percent success rate. I know there are false prophets but I've yet to meet a true one.
---Bob on 11/1/09

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\\ Cluny: you're not the only one spiteful for having been sucked into the world's system because the church let you down.\\


Are you calling me spiteful because I quoted scripture that disagreed with you?
---Cluny on 11/1/09

Those in this discussion should take into consideration Ephesians 4:10-11-12

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11And he gave some, apostles, and some, PROPHETS, and some, evangelists, and some, pastors and teachers,

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
---mima on 11/1/09

Cluny: you're not the only one spiteful for having been sucked into the world's system because the church let you down. Being raised on a God Who doesn't dole out consequences for sin was harmful. Compounded by our having gone our own way then we were not seeking the Lord anymore. Now we see fewer goods things and we despised God for it (I should have entered: insist upon them, which may have caused you to miss that). The crushed Christian seeks God again and on learning that everyone else is to blame but hungry for pounds of flesh! I was spiteful yet God redirected that at the false church, it [spite] has dissipated now. These blogs reveal Christians tearing strips off each other at the slightest detail [Gal 5:15]...with pride!
---John_II on 11/1/09

\\God now withholds good things but the flaunts insist upon it, so making themselves easy game for the conjure men.
---John_II on 10/31/09\\

Not according to Psalm 34/33LXX:

"10The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good thing."

And FLAUNT is not a noun.
---Cluny on 10/31/09

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There has been no prophet since the foundation of the church, they were God's instruments for imparting the foreknowledge of the gospel. Now all the knowledge that we need to acquire is at hand, much passed on by generation in blessed heritage. There are those who, having attained the mind of Christ through diligence, can portend what will transpire even who seem to be prophesying. Now no-one can be 100% Christ-minded but this is where our diligence to know Him gets us as near as possible. Only those basking in salvation and frittering away their reward, therefore estranging themselves from Christ, look for signs and wonders. God now withholds good things but the flaunts insist upon it, so making themselves easy game for the conjure men.
---John_II on 10/31/09

\\The majority of Christian denominations have predicted things (particularly "end time" predictions) that have not come to pass.

Are they all false prophets?
---scott on 10/29/09\\

Note your own words in your primal post: "The majority of Christian denominations....."

All you have done is to list INDIVIDUALS who have indulged in predictions, NOT denominations (except possibly for the Anabaptists, who might be considered fringe sectarians of their time).

You DO know the difference between individuals and denominations, don't you?
---Cluny on 10/31/09


Are you suggesting that Billy Graham, the Wesley's, Haldeman and Nachemoser, etc. are/were "fringe sectarians?"
---scott on 10/30/09\\

Billy Graham was an individual, NOT a denomination.

Same for the Wesleys, who went to their graves loyal priests of the Church of England--a denomination that did NOT indulge in date setting, either.

I don't know about Haldeman and Nachemoser.
But are these denominations or individuals?

You said that DENOMINATIONS have indulged in date setting. I said that FRINGE SECTS (such as JWs) and INDIVIDUALS have done so--not denominations.
---Cluny on 10/30/09


Are you suggesting that Billy Graham, the Wesley's, Haldeman and Nachemoser, etc. are/were "fringe sectarians?"
---scott on 10/30/09

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Those people who predicted the End of the World seem dumb and unlearned to me.The Bible,the only true authority for all Christians,tells us plainly in Matthew 24:35 & 36 Heaven and Earth shall pass away,but my Words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man,no not the angels of heaven,but my father only. Those people are dumb because they stick their necks out,when its in black and white,no "man" knows. They have to be unlearned concerning the Bible because the Bible says only the "father" knows. Only when men become so puffed up in their own abilities and importance can they go against the only evidence which exists the Bible and against God himself for they exalt themselves not God.
---Darlene_1 on 10/30/09

A prophet of God will hold to what is taught in the Bible. No variation. It is true that false prophets may seem to perform miraculously but their folly will be apparent. Pray for discernment. I also caution against those who are making big bucks as the Bible warns against those who practice for "selfish gain". Gain is NOT GODLINESS. That does not mean that all who have money are false, but one should use caution re following after rich so called prophets. Also, I have found that the nature of what the prophet is discussing can be an indication. Is it all about prosperity? Are they fortune tellers? Always stick with the WORD OF GOD (the Bible) and pray for God's leading and not MAN's leading.
---jody3965 on 10/30/09

\\ "Can you give an example? I doubt it." Cluny on 10/29/09

I'm always amused by people who make this sort of uninformed statement. My guess is that you've never researched this particular topic.

How many examples would you like? Your call.
---scott on 10/29/09\\

If you have an example of a denomination actually setting dates regarding the end times (as opposed to fringe sectarians or individuals), why did you not give it?

Please share the results of your research.
---Cluny on 10/30/09

Unfulfilled Predictions - 1

1950- Baptist evangelist, Billy Graham told a group in Los Angeles: "Two years and its all going to be over."US News & World Report, Dec. 19,1994, p. 67

Precursor Baptist group "the Anabaptists of the 16 Century believed that the Millennium would occur in 1533." When Prophecy Fails, Fastener, Reckon and Schaefer, pg 7

Early 1900s- Dr. Isaac Haldeman, First Baptist Church Pastor, NY, predicted that before the Jews returned to Palestine to establish a Jewish State (happened 1948) the AntiChrist would appear. "The Scriptures teach that this [AntiChrist] will be the prime factor in bringing the Jews back..." Signs of the Times, Haldemen, pg 452
---scott on 10/30/09

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Unfulfilled Predictions - 2

Cardinal Nicholas de Cusa-1401-1464 (described as a Cardinal of great learning...possessing a thorough knowledge of the Greek, Latin and Hebrew languages, and a rare degree of eloquence." Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature by McClintock and Strong, Volume II, page 611) held the end of the world would come in the year 1700.

Catholic scholar, Arnald of Villanova predicted the AntiChrist would appear in 1378. Visions of The End, McGinn, page 147
---scott on 10/30/09

Unfulfilled Predictions - 3

Methodist Church founders John and Charles Wesley wrote extensively on Bible prophecy. In the Notes on the Bible for Revelation chapter 10 we find:

"The non-chronos here mentioned seems to begin in the year 800, (when Charles the Great instituted in the west a new line of emperors, or of 'many kings') to end in the year 1836, and to contain, among other things, the 'short time' of the third woe, the 'three times and a half' of the woman in the wilderness, and 'duration of the beast.'"

This prediction which was to conclude in 1836 did not happen.
---scott on 10/30/09

Unfulfilled Predictions - 4

Martin Luther- "For my part, I am sure that the day of judgment is just around the corner. It doesnt matter that we don't know the precise is certain that time is now at an end." Reformation Principles and Practice, Dickens, pg 169

After his death leaders still claimed the nearness of the end. About 1584, Lutheran Adam Nachemoser wrote a large volume- Prognosticum Theologicum in which he predicted: "In 1590 the Gospel would be preached to all nations and a wonderful unity would be achieved...1635 seemed most likely." Prophecy and Gnosis- Apocalypticism in the Wake of the Lutheran Reformation, Robin Bruce Barnes, pg 64
---scott on 10/30/09

Scott ... Cluny asked for examples of Christian denominations that have 'predicted things (particularly "end time" predictions) that have not come to pass'

You ask how amny examples he wants.

I an intrigued by your claim ... to whet my appetite, can you start with 5, or 3 perhaps?

Best of luck.
---alan8566_of_uk on 10/30/09

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"Can you give an example? I doubt it." Cluny on 10/29/09

I'm always amused by people who make this sort of uninformed statement. My guess is that you've never researched this particular topic.

How many examples would you like? Your call.
---scott on 10/29/09

\\The majority of Christian denominations have predicted things (particularly "end time" predictions) that have not come to pass.\\

Can you give an example? I doubt it.

Very few denominations have actually done this.

The notable exceptions are fringe sects such as the World Wide Church of God, Jehovah's False Winesses, and the like.

And then, there are independent ministers, responsible to no one but themselves, but usually they are pastors of so-called NON-denominational churches.
---Cluny on 10/29/09

Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Jonah gave a prophecy that Nineveh would be overthrown in forty days, and it did not come to pass.
Was Jonah false prophet?

Has God send evil for this nation?
Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way, and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them, and he did [it] not.

Will the body of Christ repent of their evils ways, and learn His ways, so that He will not do the evil he has planned for this Nation?
---Paul9594 on 10/29/09

"The true Prophets predictions will come to pass." amand6348 on 10/28/09

The majority of Christian denominations have predicted things (particularly "end time" predictions) that have not come to pass.

Are they all false prophets?
---scott on 10/29/09

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This may not be true for anyone else but for myself. The Spirit of God within me will bear witness to the true. When someone gives anything which isn't from God,for me,it is like having a bucket of cold water thrown on me. The Spirit of God lifts and there is no anointing in the room. I know for sure in my spirit the person is doing it of themselves and its not God. We as Christians know our Fathers voice and his ways and we also know when its not our Father God's voice or his way.The nearer you draw to God through Bible Study,Prayer,and Praise and Worship then the easier it becomes for you to be sure exactly what is of God,it lines up with the Bible and what isn't of God.
---Darlene_1 on 10/29/09

|| 3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats,||

The word here the KJV translates as "meats" is NOT the word KREAS, which means the flesh of animals, but simply the generic word for food--which is one of the meaning of "meat" in Tudor-Jacobean English (as in the expression "grace before meat").
---Cluny on 10/29/09

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron,
3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Doctrine and Covenants, Section 89 (Joseph Smith)
12 Yea, aflesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving, nevertheless they are to be used sparingly,
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
---KarenD on 10/28/09

If they are not false prophets what they tell you will be true.
---shirley on 10/28/09

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Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch that, (if it were possible,) they shall deceive the very elect.

It would seem it would be best to ask one of the elect!
Because it is not possible to deceive the elect.

One can ask, are they smarter, less sinful or holier then us?

Will we know the elect?
Do the elect know? They are the elect!

Will the elect tell us, we're the elect?

Maybe, only time will tell!
---TheSeg on 10/28/09

How to distinguish between them is do they lift up Christ with signs and wonders, or themselves? If they lift up and point others to Christ, they are true.
---Leslie on 10/28/09

false christ claims to be god, he forgives your sin & preaches that there are other ways to salvation.
perverts the gospel for personal financial gain.
he/she claims to see the future.
preaches impending doom & stores weapons, food
---mike on 10/28/09

|| Cluny: Thanks for asking:||

Not all have experienced these things.

For example, do you actually think that Moses didn't breathe for 40 days when he was on Mt. Sinai with YHVH?

The Bible is giving particular details about particular people in particular ecstasies or experiencing particular visions, not the general rule for all of them.
---Cluny on 10/28/09

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Cluny: Thanks for asking:
Physical tests of a true prophet while in vision include:
A trancelike state Acts 10:10 & 11
The eyes remain open but do not see the physical world around them Numbers 24:2-4
No breath while in vision Dan 10:17
Natural strength departs Dn 10:8
Supernatural strength follows Dan 10:11,18
---Pierre on 10/28/09

One thing I think of is how a false person will do things to appeal to my selfish desires.
---Bill_bila5659 on 10/28/09

\\in vision, a true prophet does not breathe\\

And where did you get THIS tidbit?
---Cluny on 10/27/09

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