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Yeshua For His Son

Where in the Bible does it say that we may only use the name "YHVH" for the Almighty, and only "Yeshua" for His Son?

Where does it say we cannot call Him "God" and His Son "Jesus"?

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 ---alan8566_of_uk on 11/23/09
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Exzucuh and Wayne, "But their minds were blinded for until this day remains the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament, which is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it will turn to the Lord, the vail will be taken away." II Cor.3:14-16. "Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Whosoever will reject me before men, him will I also reject before my Father which is in heaven." Yeshayah 5:20+ Matthew 10:33.
---Eloy on 12/2/09

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

THis scripture is misinterpreted by trinitarians the word NAME is singular referring to one name FOR THE FATHER, for THE SON and for the HOLY SPIRIT. John 5:43 Jesus said I come in my FATHERS NAME meaning Jesus name is synonymous with Father,John 14:26 Jesus said the Holy Ghost comes in his Name, meaning The Holy Ghost is synonymous with the Name of Jesus. The Name of Jesus is exalted above every name as ordained by the Father giving Jesus all power in heaven and earth.
---exzucuh on 12/2/09

--Eloy on 12/1/09 You are wrong Eloy the old Testament is not done away, The Nomos ceremonial, ritualistic Law is done away.. Not the Entolay Moral Law of God. Jesus told the Jews that they did Nomos law but overlooked the more important aspects of the Law,
Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Jews had to keep Nomos Law but we Do not because we are not under Judaism, But we are under Entolay Law It is spiritual.
---exzucuh on 12/2/09

You do not have to use Hebrew to refer to Jesus or his Father. God is where he puts his name. He put his name in Abraham. Gods name became synonymous with the name of Abraham, When people spoke of the true God they said the God of Abraham. Before Abraham died he laid hands on Isaac and passed the Name to him, Jacob pretended to be Esau and Got his first born right to God's Name. God changed Jacobs name to Israel and the world knew him as the God of Israel and the Name went to Moses. Now the Name is in Jesus who God has exalted above every name in heaven and earth and he writes that name in the forehead of every one that is in Christ and God is the God of that individual that calls on the name of Jesus.
---exzucuh on 12/2/09

Im sorry to hurt your ego, but your translation is wrong. My Pachid in Ysrael who is Hebrew says your translation is wrong. I checked with him because I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and thought maybe my translation was wrong. But your the one who is wrong. But then again in most of your posts you say everyone is wrong except you. Get over it, your wrong. As far as the Torah not saving anyone, watch what you say about YHVH's Word, its the very word Yeshua preached. Dont blaspheme YHVH's word, your not as holy as you think.
---wayne on 12/2/09

I know Hebrew better than you, for I have translated the prophecy of Jesus's birth from the literal Hebrew scriptures, but you have only used the English translation commonly gotten on the shelves of the common market. The Greek New Testament is the New Covenant written in Jesus' blood which is currently in force and which I am born-again from, but the Old testament is abolished, for the Commander has come in the flesh and given us his New Commandments and tells us that it is not possible to serve the Old Law with the New Law, for they are contrary one to the other, and the leaven of the Old Law will condemn a soul for it lacks the inward transformation of replacing the stony heart and tablets of stone, with the soft heart and tablets of flesh.
---Eloy on 12/1/09

Pastor Jim,
In our thought the Ysrael is not to be a nation as such, but a light to the world. Ysrael has forgotten to take Torah to the world, and this is something that needs to be corrected. As far as Zion or Third Temple goes, we look for a third Temple period, its right around the corner. So do you know alot of Lubavitch Rebbe s ? Just so you know Pastor, we do not agree with alot of what the government of Ysrael does, its very humanistic and in alot of ways anti YHVH. If I may ask what faith are you apart of?
---wayne on 12/1/09

Wayne, the Old Testament Torah cannot save you, but only Yeshuah ha Meshiach the sinless suffering servant has the Salvation for you: "There was a man of the Pharisees, a religious Jew whom kept the Old Testament Law, named Nicodemus, which came to Jesus by night, and said to him: Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no man can do these miracles that you do, except God be with him. Jesus answered him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. No one always stepped in heaven except he out of heaven came down, the Son of man who from being in the heaven. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, to them that believe on his name."
---Eloy on 12/1/09

Wayne, The witness of Matthew records Jesus' lineage from Joseph, Jesus' earthly father, not by adoption but by law: and Joseph is from the line of David, which is from the tribe of Judah. And the witness of Luke record's Jesus' lineage from Mary's line, Jesus' earthly mother, and Mariam is also from the line of David, which is from the tribe of Judah. Therefore, both of Jesus' earthly parents were from the line of David, which is from the tribe of Judah, which is the descendant of Abraham, which is from Adam, just as prophesied. But above this, Jesus is the Lord straight from the heaven, from the Holy Ghost, the perfect sacrifice without sin and without spot nor blemish, the firstborn opening the matrix and is therefore wholly God's.
---Eloy on 12/1/09

My apologies Wayne!

A Hasadic Rabbe (Lubavitch) friend of mine is trying to gather a Quorum for his Chabab as we speak. Its very difficult for him.

There are(from what I know) two schools of thought in the Hasadic Traditions. One is that present day Israel is Geo Political only and Zion will come later (3rd Temple). Another is present day Israel is the The New Zion as it stands(Lubavitch). Which is your believe?

Or are there other thoughts on this?
---Pastor_Jim on 12/1/09

Pastor Jim,

You have our sect confused with a different one. We are no where near gnostic. Our sect is in Ysrael and so is our Pachid. We are accepted by the Orthodox Hasidic Jews as being valid for we keep the Torah and teach that Yeshua kept Torah. Look at Natzarim in Ra Anna Israel. There are alot of sects claiming our name.
---wayne on 12/1/09

#1 The earliest extant Church historian, Eusebius (260-340 CE), recorded in his Ecclesiastical History (EH II.xxiii.4) that the "charge" over the original Jewish followers of Ribi Y & #1241,hoshua had been given over to his brother, the first N & #1241,tzarim Paqid, Yaaqov "ha-Tzadiq" Ben-David (Hellenized to "James the Just").
---wayne on 12/1/09

The earliest extant Church historian, Eusebius also documented that the N & #1241,tzarim excised Saul, thereafter referred to exclusively as Paul, judging him an apostate (EH III.xxvii.4, see also NT corroboration in Maavar 15.41 with note 15.41.0 of Appendix V in Atonement In the Biblical 'New Covenant' (ABNC).
---wayne on 12/1/09

The earliest extant Church historian, Eusebius further documented (EH that, in 135 CE, the Roman gentiles displaced the N & #1241,tzarim by their expulsion ("ethnic cleansing") from Y & #1241,rushalayim of every Jew which included the 15th N & #1241,tzarim Paqid (EH IV.v.1-4) whom the Romans displaced with the first gentile "bishop," Marcus (EH V.xii.1) the birth of the gentile Roman Church in 135 CE!!!
---wayne on 12/1/09


Have you studied Greek? Are you familiar with the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament made over 100 BC)?

Just one example: Joshua 1:10 [KJV]:
"Then Joshua commanded the officers of the people, saying,"
The word translated "Joshua" in English is "Yehoshua`" in Hebrew, but in the Septuagint, it is translated by the Greek word "'Iesous", which is the same word that the New Testament uses.

Do you have any Greek translation of the Old Testament that says different?
---StrongAxe on 12/1/09

Eloy, once again you do not know your hebrew. And once again you run to paul, cant you prove anything without paul? Tell me where Yeshua proves anything you say? Or James, or John. They dont agree with paul though do they.
---wayne on 12/1/09

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Eloy here is the translation-
For a child has been born unto us, a son has been given to us. And the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called wounderful counsler of the Mighty God, of the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. The actual Hebrew is - Peleh Yoetz El-Gibbor Avi-Ad Sar Shalom. And no Hebrew would use this as a messianic passage. It is a passage of a descendent of King David. By your own doctrine Yeshua cannot be a descendant of King David, for Yoseph wasnt His Father, and children cannot be adopted in the Hebrew culture and hold rights of Kings. So your own doctrine nullifies the lineage.
---wayne on 12/1/09


I have actually studied your sect. Mainly because I was interested in the Orginal Nazerite Sect and I was later researching the Book of Jasher.

However, your sect is based entirely on the Gnostic writings and Psuedographia. Since the Book of Jaser was never found, but appears in your sect as being authentic.
I invite everyone here to pull up your site so they know where you are comng from. I do use some Gnostic/Pseudographia books for some reference, but since this are false Gnostic writings, they hold no weight.

Nearly all of your books are from the Gnostic Nag Hammadi Library. I am NOT critizing you here. Just want to get the record staight. I think you have many valid points!
---PASTOR_JIM on 12/1/09

It is nonsensical to think that a child would substitute thier real father for some imposter, now we real Christians come from Christ, and likewise we will not give up our real Father Shadday Yeshuah Ha Meshiach for an riyq sheqer.
---Eloy on 12/1/09

Wayne, lit.Hb: "For to us a child is born, to us a Son is given, and overthrows the head mastership by his shoulder: and His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. To the increase of the high mastership and of peace no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with justice and with righteousness from hereafter and for ever. The zeal of Yhwh of hosts will do this." Yeshayah 9:6,7. li.Gk: "But when came the fulness his time, sent forward that God whom Son of him, coming of a woman, coming under law, in order that them under law he can redeem, so that the adoption of sons we may receive." Galatians 4:4,5.
---Eloy on 12/1/09

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I will gladly give you the info, first, the greek translation of the Hebrew Tanakh, we see the name Yeshua which in english is Joshua all throughtout the greek version of the Tanakh. But when we come to the Greek of the new test we dont see Yeshua but jesus. In greek Isou which is Yeshu, but in the new test its Isous which is a paganised form and actually stands for zeus. I will send more in another post. Thank you for your kindness Pastor.
---wayne on 11/30/09

Pastor Jim
Even sunday worship and Yeshua being raised on sunday Ive proven to be false. Our bibles say the first day of the week, but the greek says miaton sabbaton which means on one of the regular sabbaths. So they violate the Sabbath every week for a lie! They dont want truth, they want their traditions. They dont want the true Hebrew Elohim or His Mashiach, they want the greco roman jesus and the apostate paul who says go ahead break the Torah. Who do they think Yeshua is speaking to in Matt 7:21-23, it can only be christains. It describes them to a tee. Pastor give me your opinion on this
---wayne on 12/1/09


Since Septuagint contains only OT, and Jesus/Yeshua wasn't born until several hundred years after last OT book was written, how could it contain his name?

I ask you a second time: do you believe the NT is pagan and corrupt? If so, what other evidence do you have for Yeshua and his life and teachings?

You quote Matthew 22:23 "I never knew you". However, in the context of 22:15-27, elaborated in 25:31-46, criterion for reward or punishment is not based on right doctrine, or saying the right words, or pronuncing names correctly. It has everything to do with showing love and compassion for others.

Also, 22:28 calls him "Iesous". If you reject 22:28, how can you accept 22:23?
---StrongAxe on 12/1/09

I am interested in what you said. I am NOT tied down by any Mens Traditions or Sacred Idol/beliefs of a church. I welcome learning with Joy in my heart.

So if you are saying the Greek term for Jesus is Pagan. Can you explain why? I believe you are correct on this, I will begin change to using the Hebrew instead. But if you can go over the list I would appreciate it.
I know James is NOT a bible name at all. Rather it was a miss translation (KJV) that use this English name. It should have read Jacob.

---PASTOR_JIM on 11/30/09

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christains have left the very Elohim they claim to worship, and no matter how much truth is given, they find it more important to follow the traditions of men then to follow the truth. All through out the septuegent Yeshua's Name is to be found, then all of a sudden the greek new test has His Name changed to a paganised version. Yet christains dont seem to care. They stray after other gods. This is fact. They prove the very words of Yeshua when He states that He will tell them He never knew them.
---wayne on 11/30/09

We have entered a time of Godly Judgment beginning in the House of God. 1 Peter 2:17.

During this time the elect is being plucked out from the many lies of the world and being restored to the unleavened truth of His Word.

Dear friend, did you know that just as it happened during Christs time, His peoples mind ruled by in part bad doctrine, so it has happened to His people today!

And just as it happened during the Catholic reign, ruling the minds of Gods people with in part bad doctrine, so it has happened today. Leaders either meaning well or knowingly deceiving Gods people, even in our day!

After, all is there anything new under sun? Read Eccl. 1:9 and 3:15
---Paul9594 on 11/30/09


You can argue all day about what the Greek translation of "Yehoshua" SHOULD have been, but the fact remains that the Greek writers of the New Testament actually DID use the word "Iesous". So you have to accept this, unless you want to toss out the whole New Testament as corrupted by pagans.

And there are many Hebrew names in which a final vowel (or vowel followed by silent consonant) were changed to Greek grammatical norms - for example, masculine nouns ending with "s". Yehoshua became Iesous, Elijah became Elias, Jonah became Jonas, etc.
---StrongAxe on 11/30/09

As I have said in the past christians refuse to change or even to look at the truth. Yeshua said He comes in His Fathers Name and is not accepted, but another will come in his own name( meaning the greco roman jesus, proven to be pagan) and him you would accept. You as christains have given up the Law for grace, even though we have always had YHVH's Grace. You have given up the Torah or instructions which is a better way of saying the law, for your own traditions, you violate the commandments for the sake of lies, especially the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and always the beloved 4th. Be happy and say your saved, funny how I can disprove all your doctrines through Tanakh and Gospels. Yet you cant really prove any of yours through paul.
---wayne on 11/30/09

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Wayne, The B'rit Chadashah, or New Testament scriptures, were scribed mostly in Greek. And the New Covenant penned in Greek was translated for the nonGreeks, for the English speaking people. Therefore "Jesus" is the English name translated from the Greek name "Iesous", translated from the Hebrew name "Yeshuah", translated from the Hebrew "Yhwh", translated from the Hebrew "Yh" or the Hebrew name "Yah", which are all the same one name. And as Alan has said, some call Jesus, "Son of God", and others call him "Lord", and even some like myself call him "Papa", all acceptable to God.
---Eloy on 11/30/09

Wayne ... do you know that if you went to France you would find there is no such name as "Wayne", any more than there is an "Alan"?

And if you go to certain countries you will find they have no sheep, so they don't call Jesus "The Lamb", or "The Shepherd"
---alan8566_OF_UK on 11/30/09

#1 So, the question must be asked, "Why was Y & #1241,hoshu & #8242, a (and its diminuitive, Yshu & #8242, a), also Hellenized ("redacted") retroactively to retrofit the first Hebrew letters (Y rather than Y & #1241,ho) to match the Greek to become the only name in Tana"kh that ends in & #1506, to 'evolve' an 's' ending Jesus?"The same rule that produced other names that end in should have produced the Greek transliteration (Iosou)not Jesus (with an "o"not an ""in the first syllable, and minus the "s" ending)!
---wayne on 11/30/09

#2 So why did this name,jesus, alone, redacted by 2nd-4th century gentile, antinomian-misojudaic Hellenist-Roman Christians of Displacement Theology, turn out unlike any other similar name in the Hebrew that ends in & Ayn)??? Far darker, why does it so eerily appear to morph the Egyptian goddess Isis and the most popular (and etymologically related) Hellenist Greek-Roman god zeus.?Our Khavrut & , books document that the earliest extant source texts for both the LXX and the NT are the codices & #x05d0 and. All of these Christian sources are acknowledged even by Christian sources (e.g., The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible) to be extensively redacted by the earliestpost-135 C.E.gentile Hellenist Roman Christians
---wayne on 11/30/09

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Do you regard the person I call God (for I call him God, even if you say I should not!) as being for the whole world? If so, how can it be so important that His name can be only YHVH ... what abpout the languages which use other characters not Arabic?
This question Alen?
How can it be so important......Because YHVH Himself says its important. This is the Name He wants to be known by. Scripture says this several times. Yeshua even came in His Name. Allah in Arabic translates as Eloah in Hebrew, A Name only used for YHVH, not for Yeshua which kills trinity also. I suggest you christians learn what the words mean in the original.
---wayne on 11/30/09

Words in the original language will surprise you such as the phrase Miaton Sabbaton. In our english it translates as the first day of the week, refering to the day (sunday) Yeshua was raised from the dead. But it actually means on one of the regular Sabbaths. The words for day, first, and week are not in this phrase, why then is it translated this way??? Because rome lied to us, and the translaters of modern bibles thought it better to keep tradition then to tell the truth. Yeshua was raised on the sabbath not sunday, which kills sunday worship, easter, good friday. But even though this is 100% truth, christians will justify it anyway to thier advatange.
---wayne on 11/30/09

Wayne ... "Alen I answered your question"

No you have not
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/30/09

Eloy, you dont know your scriptures do you?! Paul told the story of his conversion different each time, not different aspects. You'd better read it again. Alen I answered your question.
---wayne on 11/29/09

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Probably the reason the Holy Spirit is seldom mentioned in this thread (if ever) is that while both Jehovah (JHVH) and Jesus (Iesous) have names explicitly mentioned in the scriptures (besides their titles of Father and Son), the Holy Spirit is never mentioned specifically by name, but by title only. Thus, there is no name here for people to argue over.
---StrongAxe on 11/28/09

One thing about this subject ..everyone is giving their view of YHVH and His Son...strange the Holy Spirit is not mentioned,because He/It is not a person so therefore does not have a "name"!
So much for the pagan idea of a trinity! this discussion proves it as no one has mentioned it as "part of God"!
---1st_cliff on 11/28/09

Wayne, Each time Paul told his experience he told another aspect of it, just as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John told different aspects of the same one gospel, some told their details and others told their details, but altogether each person told what they witnessed of the gospel: just as when there is an occurrence, the police will question eye witnesses and each witness has different details they will offer of the same one event. You see, Paul's companions heard Jesus' voice, but they did not hear his speech. Acts 9:7: "HEARING A VOICE" + Acts 22:9: "HEARD NOT THE SPEECH". And the speech that his companions did not hear was in Hebrew- Acts 26:14: "HEBREW TONGUE"...Next question from the NonChristian...
---Eloy on 11/26/09


We DO use the name mentioned in scripture "Iesous" (or its closest approximate equivalent in other languages). You claim that this name is false. I presume that this means that you have seen the "correct" name mentioned in some other Hebrew or Aramic scriptures. I ask you a second time - please tell us just which scripture you have seen it in, to be able to tell us that the Greek version is incorrect!
---StrongAxe on 11/25/09

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Wayne ... You have not received n answer to your "simple question"?

Why not try to answer the simple question which I first raised?
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/25/09

#1 I asked a simple question, why do you christians not use the real Names as we are instructed to in scripture? I asked Eloy and now anyone why Paul cant get His vision straight each time he tells it? I can ask plenty of questions like this. But see Im percieved as an enemy, and yet Im more scriptural in my beliefs then most christians. And yet christians refuse to answer questions , why? You fight for the forced fed doctrines which have been given to you from the roman pagan church through the prtestant churches. You refuse to look at anything which might prove your faith is in mythology and out right lies.
---wayne on 11/25/09

#2 You violate YHVH's laws and have everyexcuse in the book as to why you can. You worship on the day of the sun instead of the sabbath, you say Yeshua was raised up on this day. And yes this is what we see in the english bibles. But in the greek it says miaton sabbaton which means on one of the regular sabbaths. The words first, day, week are not in the sentence. You violate the Sabbath because of a lie! But after knowing this most wont care, because as Yeshua says, for the sake of your traditions you breaks the laws of YHVH. Go back to the true faith once delivered to the saints, but most wont. The path to eternal life is narrow and FEW be that find it.
---wayne on 11/25/09

Wayne, Contrary to your falsehoods, according to the scriptures the early Christians did worship Christ as commanded, and after Paul became a Christian he did not contradict Jesus. But until you yourself get saved you will continue to abide in darkness and be in enmity against both the Torah and the B'rit Chadashah.
---Eloy on 11/25/09

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I mispelled your Name , forgive me for that, it was not deliberate. As far as translating the Names, yes its okay to say Allaha in Aramaic, Allah in Arabic and so on. But jesus is not even the true name in greek. And Yeshua is Joshua in english, so why do you not call him Joshua.
---wayne on 11/25/09


As I thought, you who are so wise cannot answer a simple question. And what do you do, a put down. Your not born again Eloy, you just want people to think so, this is why you say it so much.

So can anyone here answer the question as to why Paul tells his vision in three different ways????

You would think seeing Yeshua would be so powerful you would never forget, so why cant Paul tell it the same way each time?
---wayne on 11/25/09

Wayne, because the truth I preach means nothing to you, this is evidence that you are not of the body of Christ.
---Eloy on 11/24/09

It doesn't say that anywhere, Alan. Also, I don't think it is something we, as Believers, should be splitting hairs about. I call Him Yahushua, as I believe it to be His original name, but I understand who those who call Him Jesus are referring to when they speak of Him and vice versa. Better still, He understands who we are calling upon when He hears us, regardless.

For a brief history on the name change, Google "Yahushua is the true name of the Messiah" and the first resource you see will lead you to an explanation. Also, try Googling "is a name important Yahushua" and, again, clicking on the first result, will lead you to a bit more on the subject. Regardless of what you call Him, the study is an interesting one.
---AlwaysOn on 11/25/09

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Wayne ... That is all very interesting.

Two points though ... both very minor.

Do you regard the person I call God (for I call him God, even if you say I should not!) as being for the whole world? If so, how can it be so important that His name can be only YHVH ... what abpout the languages which use other characters not Arabic?

Then, if accuracy of name is central to courtesy, why do you persist in calling me Allen?
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/25/09

\\I use the Aramaic scriptures, so no His name is not jesus or Isous. Its Yeshu in Aramaic and Yeshua in Hebrew. Yeshua was Hebrew not greek.
---wayne on 11/24/09\\

While we're talking about such life-changing doctrines, it's Yussuf, Miriam, Pavlos, and Petros.

As the translators of the KJV asked, "Has the Kingdom of God now become words and syllables?"
---Cluny on 11/25/09


Since you follow the Aramic scriptures (without the Talmud), please tell me which book mentions Yeshu or Yeshua by name.
---StrongAxe on 11/24/09

You telling me your christ filled means nothing to me when you violate the Torah. You call it a curse, your happy about violating it. Well mr christ filled answer this since you are refering to paul....

Why did paul tell his vision in three different ways?????? And why did he contradict Yeshua????

So mr christ filled answer it, and after seeing your posts, I know how decieved you are, so lets see that supposed wisdom of yours Eloy, the questions only get harder.
---wayne on 11/24/09

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Wayne, your unlearnedness of the scriptures and your dissings towards Christians is old hat and boring. We Christians are Christ-filled and are very accustomed to the antogoinizers of the antiChrist railings from unregenerate flesh. And until you become born-again you will not have the Spirit of Christ, and will be none of his.
---Eloy on 11/24/09


Im not a christian, though I used to be an Orthodox priest. Im now a Nazarite priest. Our Pachid ( overseer, what you call bishop) is in Ysrael. I do not follow christ. I follow YHVH and His Torah ( without Talmud)and keep the testimony of Yeshua as scripture states. The first believers never thought of Yeshua as a god nor do we. The Apostles never thought of Him as a god nor do we. Yeshua was a man approved of by YHVH , whom YHVH did miracles through. YHVH raised Him from the dead. Its all YHVH, Yeshua was anointed for this. This is scriptural. And He wasnt known as jesus either.
---wayne on 11/24/09


I use the Aramaic scriptures, so no His name is not jesus or Isous. Its Yeshu in Aramaic and Yeshua in Hebrew. Yeshua was Hebrew not greek.
---wayne on 11/24/09

Wayne is just trying to raise some hackles around here and have a little fun with you. You don't need to take him seriously! :-) on 11/24/09

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Wayne ... You address us as "You christians"

What are you then?

Do you follow Christ, or worship a spelling/pronunciation?

What was crucified ... a name or a person?
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/24/09

Allen, Eloy,

I can refute any of your christian doctrines and beliefs, because you read church traditions into scripture instead of reading the true meanings out of scripture. You worship false gods, you have a greco roman god-man as your savior, you have pagan holidays and symbols, a pagan day of worship. You violate the law of YHVH, but dont care. You are playing a dangerous game, YHVH will not be mocked by your so called religion. YHVH is not a man, and the Messiah is not a god. I can prove you wrong on all of it, every doctrine you have. Yeshua the Hebrew man is the Messiah, not the greco roman god-man! YHVH be Praised!
---wayne on 11/24/09


As Eloy and I both pointed out, in every language, names have different variant spellings and pronunciations that are nevertheles considered approximate equivalents of each other.

However, if you really insist that the exact spelling or pronunciation of a name is vitally important, you must remember that every book in the New Testament calls him "Iesous", and the original Greek of Acts 4:10-12 says "Iesou" is the name by which men should be saved, not "Yeshua". (Unless, of course, you believe that all the New Testament writers have got it all wrong.)
---StrongAxe on 11/24/09

YHVH saves me, Yeshua's Name means Yah is salvation. You christians preach that a Name saves you, do you not? The only name given for the salvation of men under heaven is..........???????? Whats the Name????? Its not jesus I guarantee. Yah is salvation. See when your proven wrong you change from Name to a person. Yeshua says He lays his life down for his friends, those who do the will of His Father in Heaven ( Torah is the will of the Father, Yeshua confirms this) . But you reject Torah, so are you saved???? No you are not, your outside the promise, this is scripture. You believe in tradition. So as usual your wrong.
---wayne on 11/24/09

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Have no idea.
---amand6348 on 11/24/09

Eloy .... Thanks, that's just as I thought!

Wayne, for all he says, won't or can't answer my questions of 11/24, so I suppose that he beleives it is a name not a person who saved him.
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/24/09

I cant believe you so alled christians, I really cant. You violate YHVH's laws, do away with His Torah, and refuse His Name. Your belief is no different then pagans, yet your so full of the Im saved pride because I said a prayer that you cant see straight. You say you have a personal relationship with Yeshua, yet how can that be when you dont even use His name, you use a pagan name. You say the scriptures do not teach which names to use which is so very wrong, but yet you worship and celebrate holiday YHVH never told you to worship, in fact He tells you not to do these so called holidays. Your so very false in all you do.
---wayne on 11/24/09

Jesus is not a pagan name, but an english name. A person may be called by variations of their name, which are the same thing, like: Anthony and Tony, or Theadore and Ted, or Robert and Bob: and so likewise the name "Jesus" is the english (anglo) name for the Greek name "Iesous" which is the greek (greco) name for the Hebrew name "Yeshuah" which is the hebrew (hebraic) name for the Hebrew name "Yahwah": and there are other variations, derivatives and contractions of his name, like Josh and Yah. So no matter what dialect you use when addressing Jesus, he is wise enough to know that you are addressing him.
---Eloy on 11/24/09

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To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, Do not be swept away by the wisdom of man's spoken words. Those who are have missed the message !!

God's Children have received not the spirit of the world but the Spirit which is of God, that we might know the Truth, freely given to us of God b/c without the Guidance of His Drawing Spirit which searches all things, words could not convey nor speak express what His Spirit reveals unto us, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things : not words with words !!

The words men speak are temporal & shall always change, but the Spiritually Discerned Truth revealed through them are Eternal. So remember the Truth is not the container : it's revealed as/in the contents of the container.
---ShawnM.T. on 11/24/09

jesus is not His Name in english, its Joshua,jesus is pagan, but christians refuse to look at this. Plus, YHVH is the Fathers Name, He Himself says this all throughout the Torah. Yeshua says He proclaimed His Fathers Name to the Disciples.
Why are christians so embarrassed to call the Messiah by His real Name. Yeshua means Yah is salvation, jesus in Hebrew means horse. In Greek it refers to zeus. Which should we use.....hmmm I wonder.
---wayne on 11/23/09

You said Christians refuse to look at this. It's true, I've found also. It is twice as hard for most to unlearn as it is to learn. Some, are sheep....sheep have certain characteristics. You can show them water...but if they are not thirsty?
---Trav on 11/24/09


Because each language has its own set of rules governing what sounds can and cannot be made, names change slightly when translated from one language to another. The Bible is full of examples of this, and never makes an issue of it. Most names change substantially between Hebrew and Greek (for example, Greek use a mark rather than a letter for H, so Hebrew words with H lose it, names ending with A and/or H often get an S added: Eliyah becomes Elias, Yeshua becomes Iesous, Halleluyah becomes Alleluia etc.) Some names even had slightly different spellings in Hebrew between one book and another.
---StrongAxe on 11/24/09

Please continue ....

Wayne ... Acts 4.12 does not say that's the only name we can call Him by.

It's saying He is the only Saviour.

Unless you think that we are saved by the speeling of the name of the Saviour, rathter than by the Saviour Himself.

With whom do you have a personal relationship with? A person, or his/her name? With the Saviour, or with His name? Who/what died on the Cross? The Saviour or the spelling of His name?
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/24/09

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Alan, I have no idea where these people get all their crazy ideas. YHWH is unpronounceable. No one has heard it properly verbalized for a couple of thousand years. The New Testament Greek spelling of Jesus is "Iesous". That looks a lot more like "Jesus" than "Yeshua". So I guess because of the way they spelled the Lord's name, the New Testament writers were pagan and so Christianity must be pagan too. How silly... on 11/24/09

"Where in the Bible does it say that we may only use the name "YHVH" for the Almighty, and only "Yeshua" for His Son?" No where.
---josef on 11/24/09

\\ jesus is not His Name in english, its Joshua,jesus is pagan, but christians refuse to look at this. \\

That's odd.

Everything I've ever seen says that "Jesus" is the English equivalent (as well as Latin, French, and Spanish) equivalent of Yeshua.

How is it pagan?
---Cluny on 11/24/09

Alan, it doesn't.
---Eloy on 11/24/09

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Wayne ... You ask "If your name is Allen, do you want everyone refering to you as belial?

Well, I had all sorts of nicknmaes at school and I was only offended by some of them.

And I know you are referring to me even whan you incorrectly spell my name "Allen"
---alan8566_of_uk on 11/24/09

We are modern day worshippers. We are what Jesus was referring to when He said "TRUE WORSHIPERS". Now that Jesus came, we have GOD IN ENTIRETY/completeness and we are to "go ahead" to a relationship with JESUS (the fulness of God)....

Colossians 2:9
"For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily".

John 4:23
"true worshipers".

2 John 1:9
"and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD, he who abides in the doctrine has BOTH the Father and the Son".

There is a reason why God told Moses that His name "FOREVER" is "I am who I am", Exodus 3:14, some versions say "I am THAT I am", same thing).
---more_excellent_way on 11/23/09

Aren't Hebrew Bible names made up of vocabulary words that the Jews use in everyday conversation? For example, King David's name is made of the word for "loving" or "boiling" (meaning boiling with love), I understand. So, in his own language, he heard people calling him something like "Loving" or "Boiling" or maybe "Bubbly". "Bubbly" could mean he was bubbling with love for God. So, God could have given him this name, *at birth*, knowing how David would become. So . . . if "Yahweh" in Hebrew means "The Eternal" or "The One" (the only God), then Jesus might have heard people calling Him something like "The One is Salvation", in His language.
---Bill_bila5659 on 11/23/09

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