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Will God Change His Mind

Exodus 32:10-14 states that God Wanted to smite His people for their worshipping of the Golden calf, Moses pleads with God to spare them, and God changed His mind. Now a verse like this would make me throw in the towel, but I always thought that God couldn't change His mind. Explain please?

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Did God know Israel was going to do this?--Yes
Did God know Moses was going to intercede when He told him what He could do?--Yes
Why did God seemingly change His mind?--
Testimony...To show Israel who God's man was and to encourage Moses in his faith.
The Moses of Ex 32:11-13 has alot more courage and faith then did the Moses of Ex 4:1-13
---MIchael on 2/12/10

Shawn T, thank you so much for your interpretations. They are very helpful indeed. May the Lord continue using you for His glory in this New Year, blessings to you and family, and to Joel and everyone here who study and search for the Truth in responding to questions.
---MarkV. on 1/2/10

To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Understanding of God's Knowledgeable Word starts with Wisdom : and the fear of the LORD, that is Wisdom & to depart from evil is Understanding. Job 28:28

What the world perceives as God changing, is nothing more than His Mercy upon those who have the Wisdom to repent, seeking the Understanding the Lord, despite transgressions of evil they resided in previously.

-- Joel :

Brother, When our minds are no longer conformed to this world, we'll no longer See & Hear Exo.32:14 as God changing His mind : we'll Understand it's Truth as His Mercy upon man, b/c God nor His Preordained Creation changes from that which He has foreknown it to be.
---Shawn.M.T on 1/1/10

Joel, God is just and perfect in his judgment: the guilty whom refuse to repent are rightly condemned, and the guilty whom repent are rightly given forgiveness and restored.
---Eloy on 1/1/10

Eloy, if its unchanging judgment, why did God change His mind when a righteous commits sin? Don't you think that this teachings come from a person who is sinless only? Which of course you claim to be. No one has reached your status Eloy, sinless. you have reached the status of Christ already. Everyone else is moving right along been sanctified and one day they will be glorified. You have already arrived.
---MarkV. on 1/1/10

Joel, God is unchanging in his final judgment in condemning the guilty, but when the guilty sinner repents from their wrong then they will obtain clemency or pardon from God, and God's wrath will be changed into mercy for the repented one: likewise, when the righteous one turns away from their obedience to serve sin then they will obtain condemnation from God, and God's blessing will be changed into wrath for the guilty one. For God's unchanging judgment, Please Read- Ezekiel 18:21-32+ 33:10-20.
---Eloy on 12/31/09

Eloy, you have no pearls to give anyone. For everything you have said is wood or hay. I myself, and many others, whom you have dissed, had a lot of pearls to give to you, but you don't see pearls, you see evil. Many have tried to bring the truth to you kindly and all they got was condemnation from you. Why do you not have faith? Because your salvation is by your own works.
---MarkV. on 12/31/09

MarkV, You are obstinate and I have no further words for you, instead I am redeeming the time and will put my pearls to others whom will accept the gospel.
---Eloy on 12/31/09

Eloy, you are correct, there is no fellowship between light and darkness. So you have to come out of the darkness Eloy. Your attempt on rewriting Scripture will not work. And I believe the darkness is caused by your unwillingness to accept the Truth. It has hardened your heart to such a point you believe you are a sinless god. And everyone should bend their knees to you. I believe others were right, you do need a mind change, another rebirth. Maybe the third rebirth will work.
---MarkV. on 12/31/09

MarkV, I think it is wonderful how when I say "Yes", the nonChristian says "No": and when I say "No", then the nonChristian says "Yes": Even as the scripture says, this opposition proves that there is No fellowship with light and darkness, none.
---Eloy on 12/31/09

-- Jerry :

Brother, That's what I've been endeavoring to share with JoelV a.k.a Joel !!

JoelV needs to read & remember Jer.17:5 b/c he's denying to believe the Will of God's Word that He would NOT consume His People in Exo.32:14, and instead wishes to believe & put his trust in what Moses said, "Thus saith the Lord", which led to the slaughter of 3,000 Israelites : all b/c he highly doubts the man Moses would lie.

No sooner than God gives Moses the Ten Commandments, Moses departs from the Lord and not only physically breaks the Commandments but also literally breaks Two of the Commandments : "Thou shall not Bare False-Witness(Lie)" which led to the breaking of "Thou shall not Kill(murder)".
---Shawn.M.T on 12/30/09

Most Christians must think that God changes His mind. They think that when Jesus wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger in stone, he was either lying, didn't mean it or was just kidding. They think that these laws were "nailed to the cross" or otherwise made void by the sacrifice of Christ, and now we are "under grace" and free to disregard those eternal laws. Free at last! Free to sin with impugnity!
---jerry6593 on 12/29/09

Ahab repenting in no way indicated that God didn't know Ahab was going to repent. God is Omniscient who knows all. What God did was, bring conviction for what he had done against God in order to get him to repent.. And God used Elijah to accomplish this task. After Elijah proclaimed what God was going to do to him for what he had done, Ahad repented, God said, "Because he has humbled himself before Me, I will not bring the calamity in his days, In the days of his son I will bring the calamity on his house." As far as Jezebel was concern, she was singled out for judgment because of her initiative in driving Ahab in the promotion of Baalism (v. 25). Elijah's prophecy concerning her was literally fulfilled in 2 Kings 9:10,30-37).
---MarkV. on 12/29/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, Yes : We're to have the Faith to Trust only in the Word of the Lord, and not the blind faith of trusting in the word of any man : like you or me.

Find the courage to out-right say what you mean next time, or you'll never have the Faith to mean what you say !!

Scriptures does say the Lord told Moses, He would NOT consume His People : when He repented of the evil which He thought to do to them in Exo.32:10,14 .... and that's not speculation, it's the Will of God's Word which never returns to Him Void.

JoelV, God's Word does reveal that that slaughter wasn't God's Will as Moses falsely claimed .... and if you didn't know, bears of false-witness like Moses that day are "Lying" !!
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/28/09

God's judgment is unchanging, God changes his mind when the guilty repent, in repentance the guilty's judgment is forgiven or changed into mercy. As a parent plans to do one thing to his child. Then the child turns towards the parent looking for that thing the child knows the father is able to provide, in asking the father is moved to do another thing for his child. Remember Jezebel's husband King Ahab that God planned and said that he was going to destroy? I Kg.21:17-26. Then when Ahab repented, God changed his mind and spared his life. I Kg.21:27-29. So, yes prayer changes things. And remember when Elijah prayed and it did not rain for three years, and then after he prayed again it rained? Yes, the word for us is to pray without ceasing.
---Eloy on 12/28/09

Scriptures never said that Moses lied about it, the only way to come to that conclusion is to speculate on why Moses claimed "Thus says the Lord."

//"Brother, Don't put your trust in a man,"-Shawn M.T.//
---JoelV. on 12/28/09

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-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, Reread all my previous postings b/c your endeavor now for scriptural proof, might give you the Ears to Hear & Eyes to See the Truth you need to accept.

The Lord told Moses in Exo.32:14, He would NOT consume His People : when He repented of the evil which He thought to do them.

... but in Exo.32:27 the anger of Moses claimed 'THUS SAITH THE LORD', just to get God's People to consume & slaughter every man his brother & neighbor.

If the Lord says He will NOT destroy the people and Moses claims the Lord said to slay & destroy your neighbor, then that was not God's Will & Moses lied.

JoelV, Make Peace with it & don't Trust in man just b/c you highly doubt he would lie !!
---Shawn.M.T on 12/28/09

Disregard that quote, now that I look on it, I felt kinda impressed not to post it.

Shawn M.T.,
If you are so interested in scriptural proof, show me the passage that states Moses lied?
---JoelV. on 12/27/09

this is the meaning of an "advocate" or of someone to "intercede" on their behalf,it is also an explaination of "standing in the gap"..why should God be unable to change His mind? He will not break His promise or act against His word to be found a liar,but this is not the same thing..God hates all sin and has been longsuffering since the fall of Adam.It is an absolute neccesity for us that God's mercy is greater than his judgement ..without His GRACE no flesh can be saved.
---richard on 12/27/09

Joel, Now I disagree with you. First of all the teachings of John Hagee and his son are not a very good source. His comments on forgiveness are wrong. At least as you stated them. You said he said,
"To forgive another person without demanding a change of their conduct, is to make the grace of God an accomplice to evil." That is so wrong. Grace by itself demands nothing. If it demanded something in return it would not be Grace. Second, When we forgive another it is not done with a condition. It is done because our heart feels it should be done. Has nothing to do with the other persons heart. It has to do with your heart only. What the other person does he is responsible for that, not you.
---MarkV. on 12/27/09

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-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, Don't put your trust in a man b/c you highly doubt he would lie. Endeavor instead to compare spiritual things with spiritual, so you're not led by 'Blind Faith' !!

If what Hagee's son says is God's Word, then it will be backed by scriptures : But I can tell you now, you won't find it in God's Word.

JoelV, We're called to FORGIVE & YE SHALL BE FORGIVEN. No where in God's Word are we called to demand anything from any one. We're to Love our enemies, do good & lend hoping for nothing again and our reward shall be great, as God's Children. Luke 6:35

Therefore be Merciful as our Father is, b/c the Goodness, Forbearance & Longsuffering of God's Mercy leads unto repentance. Rom.2:4
---ShawnM.T. on 12/27/09

Thanks MarkV. for your comment, but these things are taught to me through the Holy Spirit. I may have some holes, but who has a perfect case?

Shawn M.T., I'm trying not to argue against you and what the Holy Spirit has revealed to you. It is true, that God loves His children equally, and would rather them to live to old age in order for them to have many, many chances to be saved...

But, I heard this from John Hagee's son in his sermon, "To forgive another person without demanding a change of their conduct, is to make the grace of God an accomplice to evil." And if you remember what happened when Ishmael was allowed to go free, we now have Arab nations that want to destroy Israel!!! :o
---JoelV. on 12/26/09

Joel V, one thing I noticed from all of your answers, is that you never said anything damaging to Shawn T. That is great Joel. You are able to discuss something between you too without calling each other names. I know you are stubburn but that is who you are. Nothing wrong with that. Just be sure it does not lead you wrong. After all who knows everything about the workings of God?
I followed what you said because of one reason, the sovereignty of God. I always read what others say, and many times they forget the nature and character of God when they are answering. At one time I thought you were speaking about that subject. Peace be with you,
---MarkV. on 12/26/09

Well you've been complaining over my "speculating," and you got on my case when I said that it doesn't matter. So I'm laying down what I believe that passage meant. OK? Besides, Moses spent 40 days on a mountain with God! I highly doubt that he would lie to the Israelites.
---JoelV. on 12/26/09

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-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, Since we've all ready cover this, I'll revert you back to my 12/2/09 & 12/18/09 post !!

No one has ever claimed that allowing for the camp to repent was evil work.

The evil works was the slaughter caused by the lie of Moses.

JoelV, All Glory goes to God for His Mercy unto repentance which cleansed the camp, but Moses leading the camp to slaughter their neighbor, wasn't part of the camp's cleansing nor was it the Works of God b/c even though Moses claimed 'THUS SAITH THE LORD' slay your neighbor, the Lord said He will NOT consume them.

While Moses mediated & led God's people out of Egypt, he couldn't lead them into the 'Promise Land' b/c Moses didn't away do God's Will.
---ShawnM.T. on 12/25/09

Shawn M.T.

Lets lay it down...

Moses, instead of giving it to himself, gave credit to God. Moses did not lie, he was only doing what the lord wanted, which was to lead His people out of Egypt and out of sin, Moses was a mediator between God and His children. The very act of Moses calling those who wanted to be on the lord's side is the scriptural evidence that God was sparing His people. Those who did not repent were no longer His children. Nothing about this was evil, and this was all apart of God's will, and it was never Moses' will to do that, but God's.

So God never did changed His mind.
---JoelV. on 12/25/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, You're referring to the Israelites warring with Pagan nations, is out of context and cannot be compared to our discussion of the Lie of Moses !!!

Where in scripture does it state that "Those claiming falsehood in the Name of God, shall be destroyed on the spot" ??

JoelV, Why are you trying to drag this discussion out through your speculation & telling of lies ??
---ShawnM.T. on 12/25/09

If Moses had lied and claimed it was God's will, then Moses would have been destroyed on the spot, right in front of every one to show that you are not suppose to lie and claim falsehood IN THE NAME OF GOD.

Your claims are astounding, and I would hate to see YOU lead astray to believe that it wasn't God's will to spare some, which is the same today!!!(i.e. death without Christ).

It would have also been evil, if your claims are correct, for the Israelites to slaughter the pagan nations the way they did, and would have been no better than the event that took place after God's relenting mercy.
---JoelV. on 12/25/09

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-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, You're clearly confusing yourself even more by claiming that 'Messages of God from Angels is not God's Will' b/c their the ones delivering it. Speculation like this is only making it harder for you to discern between the Truth of God's Will and that which is not His Will !!

When God's say His Wrathful Judgment shall fall upon the unsaved, sending His Angels to carry it out, then that is God's Will.

If the Lord says he will NOT destroy the people and Moses say 'Thus saith the Lord' slay & destroy your neighbor, then that was not God's Will & Moses lied.

JoelV, The Truth is Moses was fallible : make Peace with it and stop being lead astray by thinking he did not nor could not lie.
---Shawn.M.T on 12/25/09

Ok then, lets discuss who's will is who's.

God's judgement on people in the end days, where He casts everyone, who does not have Jesus, into the lake of fire, was God's will, since He will be the one who does the judgement. Now when the angels deliver the wraths of the judgements (bowl judgements), or messages of God, to men is not Gods will, as you state, but the angels, since they are the ones who enacted the event. And when people bring the gospel of christ to others, it must be their will for those to hear, since they are the ones delivering the message. And so, it was Moses' will to slaughter their brothers and neighboors, along with the Pagan nations too, so that God didn't judge them.

Does that seem right to you?
---JoelV. on 12/24/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, An apologist would never make the statement, 'What does it matter if it was God's Will or not', b/c that's what's being defended : God's Will !!

We're called to spread the gospel, confessing our faults one to another & praying one for another, that we may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much toward revealing what is that Good, Acceptable & Perfect Will of God.

JoelV, When it come to knowing what pleases the Lord, whether or not it's God's Will does matter.

I'll pray for you though that you never confuse the Glory of God with the angry wrath of men, and are led to do the devil's work by thinking it's God's Will.

Good Day Brother & God Bless
---ShawnM.T. on 12/24/09

Ok Shawn M.T., MarkV.,

Lets stop this. We aren't getting any where. We shouldn't be arguing among ourselves, but we need to be apologetics against aitheism. So lets focus our attention on other things instead. And besides, what does it matter if it was God's will or Moses'? The end result would have been the same, God relented from destroying them, and the Israelites were forgiven. Every ones happy. :)
---JoelV. on 12/23/09

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Jesus Christ is the ultumate blood sacrifice and we no longer need to worry about sin and it's curse.

carte-blanche to commit adultery fornication murder lie steal cheat - all manner of lawlessness ...CUZ good ole boy "christ" covered it all ...keep on keeping on sinning CUZ "christ" keeps 'em laws for me

by this ignorance what "laws" are the sinner under? laws to "obey" and we all can do as we please in "name of christ" you DO UNDERSTAND the "sinner" has NO LAWS EITHER

you live a LIE following ignorant EVIL doctrines of men ...simply a "sinner" who lets Biblical Christ drip from their lips ...Christ said you are NONE OF HIS
---Rhonda on 12/20/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, It's not that we ever needed to worry about sin & death : so much as we need to have Hopes of being dead to sin & no longer living therein by the Promise of God's Grace b/c worrying never added one second to any ones life !!

JeolV, Christ is the Ultimate Blood Sacrifice and we all(OT & NT) are accounted as sheep for the slaughter, killed all the day long for the Lord's Sake and are more than just conquerors through Him that Loves us .... B/C neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor any other creature, nor things present, nor things to come, shall be able to separate us from the Love of God's Promise of the Grace in Christ.

Grace Unto You Brother & Peace Be Multiplied
---Shawn.M.T on 12/20/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, The Powerful Truth of God's Word cannot lie, cannot pass away, cannot change nor return to Him void no matter when(OT or NT) it appears in Creation !!

It's always been by Mercy & Truth that the evil of iniquity is purged. So, never presume people were anymore easily deceived before the Finished Works of Christ, just b/c the anger of Moses lead to the evil acts of the devil's lies.

JoelV, The hardness of men's hearts has always been the cause of the world's evil senseless slaughtering, and it has never been necessary to keep God's people from being defiled b/c "when a man's ways please the LORD, He maketh even his enemies to be at Peace with him". Pro.16:6-7
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/20/09

Joel, the whole story of the Bible unfolds to us as we begin from Genesis. God's actions towards men changed through time. He Himself never changes and is the same yesterday, today, and forever, but that is His nature. But as He begins with the sin of Adam, all the way through the New Testament His actions change towards individuals. All with a purpose in mind. The Covenant of obedience of the law was for pure obedience. So many people died because of their disobedience. On and off the nation of Israel obeyed and then disobeyed. Sometime for hundreds of years they were ok, then they begin their idol worship and other things. It is a story about how God continued to help them, and later gave what was rejected to the Gentiles.
---MarkV. on 12/20/09

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Jesus Christ is the ultumate blood sacrifice and we no longer need to worry about sin and it's curse.

---JoelV. on 12/19/09

Shawn M.T., MarkV.,

You've gotta remember what time period we are talking about. This is the old testament times, the times before Christ. The time when the people on the earth were easily deceived by Satan. Just look at the punishments for committing crimes, death for the slightest infraction of the ten commandments, blood sacrifices and washing to cleanse yourself. Back then, these things were necessary to keep His people from being defiled. But once Jesus had shed His blood for us, it was no longer necessary to do these things, i.e, death punishment, atonement sacrifices, etc., for God had made the ultumate sacrifice to purify us forever, "whosoever believes in Him."
---JoelV. on 12/19/09

Joel, I hope you are not mad at me for answering you also, but I wanted to tell you one story in Scripture does not make or break a believer. You let one context, that of Moses, become so big in your discussions that it troubled you to be wrong. It's ok to be wrong. In fact when we know we are wrong it can only lead us to what is right. There is many stories in Scripture and we can only go by what Scripture says, speculating does lead us in another direction. What if, can change the whole meaning of a passage. In my own opinion, I like very much what Shawn T teaches, and the way he does. He is a great teacher, glory to God.
---MarkV. on 12/18/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, No one has ever claim that allowing for the camp to repent was evil work !!

The evil works was the slaughter of 3,000 by those who were lead to make their arm flesh b/c they trusted in the lie of Moses.

Seriously, Learn the Goodness, Forbearance & Longsuffering of God's Mercy which leads unto repentance, as well as the Spirit of Love you're to be in Christ : so you won't be deceived into trusting in man's lies and thinking like some third world Mideastern countries and believe that it's God's Will to slay the 'Infidels' before you that will not repent !! ROTFLOL

JoelV, The camp was cleansed when they repented, not by slaughtering 3,000.

Good Day Brother & God Bless
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/18/09

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Allowing for the camp to repent is evil works, huh?
---JoelV. on 12/18/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, While all those things are True about God, they have nothing to do with the lies that men tell : but thanks for your prayers.

It's clear that you have a hard time accepting the Truth when you don't understand, and I pray & hope you gain the discernment to distinguish between God's Will and man's will b/c "Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm" Jeremiah 17:5

JoelV, Never forget that just b/c you claim something in the Lord's name, doesn't make it God's Will.

Learn the manner of Spirit you are to be in Christ, and don't put your trust in men who make their arm flesh in evil works !!

Grace Unto You Brother & Peace Be Multiplied
---ShawnM.T. on 12/17/09

Here is the reason why I believe that it was God's will and not Moses' will.

God can't change, (Hebrews 13:8).

God can't lie, (Hebrews 6:18).

God's word can't change, (Psalm 119:89).

God's word can't pass away, or He cannot go back on His word, (Matthew 24:35).

God's word can't return to Him void, it will accomplish what He wills, (Isaiah 55:11).

God can't give His glory to anyone else, (Isaiah 42:8).

If this does not convince you, Shawn M.T., then I don't know what else to say, and I hope that God has shown me what to say here for you. If you are not convinced, then I'll pray for you, if you are convinced, then I'll still pray for you. ^-^
---JoelV. on 12/17/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, WHY Moses got angry doesn't matter, but Eph.4:25-27 does : Read it & remember lying only Glorifies the Liar, never the Lord !!

Your "What if" & "Even if" questions, are Questions of Speculation, that will only lead to an "Opinion of Speculation", which is never the Truth of God's Word.

In the wilderness for 40 days, Jesus revealed that we're not to 'Entertain Questions of Speculation' b/c their only meant to lead us from the Truth : as they did to Eve in the beginning which lead to the 'Fall' of man.

Never entertain speculation : when you do, it's likened to "Walking down a road paved with good intentions .... it only leads to hell" !!
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/16/09

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Yes, God can change His mind. God can do whatever He pleases, if it suits His purpose.
---Catherine on 12/16/09

Moses was "Wax Hot," but only because the Israelites had fallen away and worshipped a false idol. The breaking of the tablets was a symbolic gesture that the covenant was broken. And what if Moses had said, "Thus says I," instead of "Thus says the Lord?" He would have been guilty of glorifying himself, rather than glorifying the Lord. And even if it was a lie and not the will of God, don't you think that God would have said to Moses when he came back to Him "You should not have lied in my name and claimed this act was My will."
---JoelV. on 12/16/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, In Exo.32:19, Moses' anger waxed hot, causing him to destroy the tables & lie to the Israelite by telling them the LORD God of Israel SAID to slay every man : and the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses, not the Word of God !!

JoelV, While God Created all thing, the Will of God's Glory is found through the Providence in any 'Good Works' of His Spiritual Fruits by us : and the evil act of slaughter derived from the angry hands of men(giving way to the devil), is not the 'Good Works' of the Lord's Will working through us ..... though God will use this and all things for the good of those who Love Him, all things are not according to the Glory of God's Merciful Will.
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/15/09

Show me where Moses was enraged and did this on his own will.
---JoelV. on 12/15/09

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-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, The camp's cleansing came from the Glory of God's Mercy unto repentance, not from the lie of Moses unto the slaughter !! To understand Unrestrained people, just accept the Wheat & Tares parable.

The Truth is, it's not necessary to slaughter your neighbor just b/c he doesn't repent. Jesus taught this Temperance in Matt.5:43-48 and God endeavored to reveal this Mercy to Moses in Exo.32:14, but Moses was unable to be holy as our Lord is Holy and allowed the anger of his wrath to lead to the senseless slaughtering works of the flesh.

JoelV, Read Gal.5:21 & Never forget that while Moses lead God's people out of Egypt, He wasn't the kind of person God wanted to lead them into the 'Promise Land'.
---Shawn.M.T on 12/15/09

So was it Moses' will or God's?
---JoelV. on 12/15/09

Joel, in answer to your question to Shawn T,
Question, "You really think that God would relent, and then let His people keep on sinning, nor offer them the chance to repent"
The answer is yes. In Acts 7:40-42 gives you the answer about the passage in Exodus concerning God and His actions towards those who worshipped the calf, "And God turned and gave them up to worship, the host of the heavens"
Quoted from Amos 5:25-27. Judicialy abandoning the people to their sin and idolatry (Hosea 4:17).
---MarkV. on 12/15/09

So it was wrong for Moses to lead them to kill their neighbors and brothers? I don't understand, would God allow for "Unrestrained people" (Exodus 32:25) to keep on being unrestrained? It doesn't make sense to say that the cleansing of the camp was an evil act. It was a nessecary act in order to keep moving on. And you need to reevaluate what kind of person Moses is, because last time I checked, God called Moses to lead His people out of Egypt. AND, you need to remember who you need to give glory to.
---JoelV. on 12/15/09

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-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, The purpose of God's Mercy isn't to let His people keep sinning with no hope of repenting.

The Goodness, Forbearance & Longsuffering of God's Mercy leads to repentance !!

If God relentlessly slaughtered man just b/c he keeps on sinning, then no one would've ever had the chance to repent unto Salvation.

.... and as far as you're question of "So Moses lied?", .... You shouldn't be shocked to finding-out that men are capable of lying : especially when they still have a hardened heart.

JoelV, God will stop mankind from sinning on the 'Day of the Harvest'. That is when the Judgment of God is according to Truth against them which commit such things.

Read Rom.2:1-6
---ShawnM.T. on 12/15/09

You really think that God would relent, and then let His people keep on sinning, nor offer them the chance to repent?
---JoelV. on 12/14/09

So Moses lied?
---JoelV. on 12/14/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, It's True that God will use all things for the good of those who Love Him, but not everything which come to pass was compelled by the Drawing Will of God's Spirit : such as the lie told by Moses in Exo.32:27 which led to the slaughter !!

JoelV, If any ones prayers & determination are causing them to lash-out & consume the wicked, then they know not what Spirit they are to be in Christ : and they themselves are endeavoring to pass judgment on the Wicked Tares before the 'Harvest of God', when "Vengeance is Mine Saith The Lord" will be clearly understood by all and no longer mistaken or confused with the angry hands of men given way to the devil.
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/14/09

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Moses sent the Levites to kill the people engaged in evil. It was painful for a Levite to slay his brother, his companion, and his neighbor. But the wicked, even if they were relatives, had to be destroyed lest the whole camp perish under God's judgement.

God intended to spare Israel. But He drew Moses into the process by causing him to pray for the right outcome. He uses our prayer combined with our own determination to make His will come to pass.
---JoelV. on 12/13/09

-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Moses said , THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL, slay every man his brother, companion & neighbour. Exo.32:27

Brother, When did our Lord God tell Moses to say what he said, in Exo.32:27 ??

The slaughter was not God's Will, but was solely the anger of Moses given way to telling the devil's LIES : clearly revealed by Exo.32:27.

JoelV, You've asked about 'God allowing evil to remain among His chosen?'

Read Matt.13:24:30

It's God's Will to let both grow together until the harvest : in that time only will the reapers gathers the Tares to burn them, while gathering the Wheat into God's barn.

Never confuse man's anger with God's Will, it will cause you to throw in the towel !!
---Shawn.M.T on 12/11/09

Joel, evil cannot corrupt the true genuine believers. Evil will be present as long as God permits it to continue. Another thing to remember that the people in Moses time did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They were under a Covenant of works. They would obey for a while and then disobey. Stiffnecket people they were.
Shawn is correct, the act of killing was not done by orders of God, but by orders of Moses. His anger cause what happened. And in the eyes of God he was right because they had shamed the Lord their God. And those whom didn't get killed, later found the wrath of God to deal with found in vv. 33-34. God would deal with them at a later time.
---MarkV. on 12/11/09

But God hates evil! do you agree? So why would He allow for an evil to be present in His own choses ones, where evil can corrupt the rest?

Read Exodus 32:27 also.
---JoelV. on 12/11/09

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-- JoelV a.k.a Joel :

Brother, While God built all things, the Will of God's Glory is the Providence in any Good Works through us : but slaughter derived from angry hands(giving way to the devil), is an evil act & isn't the Good Works of the Lord's Will working through us, even if it is against the wicked.

Those whose angry desires are to command fire to come down from heaven and consume the wicked through their hands, as James & John did in Luke 9:54-56, know not what manner of Spirit they are or are to be in Christ, b/c Christ didn't come to destroy men's lives, but to Save them & keep them Saved by Love, and so are we : whose Hopes of Faith are in the Promise of God's Grace by Christ unto Salvation.
---Shawn.M.T on 12/8/09

Oh, I am the Joel in this blog. Just needed to change b/c there is another Joel on this site.

Was it the act of the Israelites to go into the promised land and slaughter men, women, children, and babies, but spare the virgins, or was it God that worked through them?

Are we the ones who change a man to believe that Jesus is Christ? NO! It is God!

We are the ones who perform the acts, but it is the will of God, and it is by God that we do good works.

And this story has a paralleling feature to the overall Heaven or Hell choice.
---JoelV. on 12/7/09

-- Joel :

Brother, I agree they were consecrating themselves to the Lord from all their previous sinful acts : worshipping the golden calf & allowing their anger to give way to the devil in the slaughter of 3,000 ... and Yes, It was b/c of the Mercy of God, that He held back His Anger to spare those who wanted to repent of their sin, but Vengeance is Mine saith the Lord.

So, Just b/c the Foreknowledge of God knows that the anger of Moses was going to give way to the devil & lead to the slaughter of 3,000, doesn't by any means make it the sanctioned act of God, as you've implied in your 12/3/09 post.

While God uses all things for the good of those who Love Him, all things are not according to God's sanctioned Will.
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/5/09

Thats not what I meant. I meant that, instead of God destroying them all, He knew what Moses was going to do when he went back down, and spared the ones who were on the Lords side. He held back His anger to spare those who wanted to repent of their sins, for the Lord "blotched them out of His book" (Exodus 32:33).

They consecrated theirselves for worshipping the golden calf, not for destroying their brothers and neighbors, in fact they were praised for doing this act.
---Joel on 12/4/09

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-- Joel :

Brother, Exodus 32:29 clearly confirms that the men slaughtered in Exodus 32:28 wasn't a sanctioned act of God. It was solely the angry hands of men stirred up by Moses : b/c we consecrate ourselves to receive the Blessing of God's Guiding Hand to lead us before the FACT of what we're about to do, not after the FACT as you're trying to imply with Exodus 32:29.

Plus, They weren't consecrating themselves for the Lord's Blessing to slaughter their sons & brother, but were consecrating themselves B/C THEIR ANGER opposed & slaughtered every man his son and his brother.

I see now why you've thrown in the towel .... but I pray now that it's been explained, you've pick it up and continued to follow God's True Word !!
---Shawn.M.T on 12/3/09

Exodus 32:29 says "Then Moses said 'consecrate yourselves today to the Lord, that He may bestow on you a blessing this day, for every man has opposed his son and his brother."

This clearly states that the 3,000 people who died that day was not just the anger of Moses, but also the act of God, but instead of wiping them all out, some were saved from the destruction.
---Joel on 12/3/09

-- Joel :

Brother, The wicked shall surely die, but it remains to be seen whether their death comes by the hand of angry men or by providence.

You're correct in guessing that the Lord does fulfill what He says He's gonna do .... b/c it's the Lord who by showing Mercy, was giving His people time to not die in their sin.

It's Moses who allowed his anger to wax hot which led to the slaughter of about 3,000 men, but this was not sanctioned by the Lord b/c He repented of the evil death which His stiff-necked people deserved.

We're to be angry and sin not nor give place to the devil by letting the light of God's Mercy go down by our wrath. The Truth of the matter is never confuse the Wrath of God with the anger of men.
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/3/09

I guess I read that passage wrong b/c it goes on to say that when Moses went back down to the camp, he threw the stone tablets down (Not the Ten commandments, but all the commandments and regulations), shattering them in anger over seeing the golden calf, melted the calf down, put it in the water and made every one drink it, went to the far side of the camp and called every one to that side who did not want to worship the calf. They then slaughtered every one who was still in camp, brother and sister and neighbor, and 3,000 died that day.

I guess the Lord does fulfill what He says He's gonna do...
---Joel on 12/3/09

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When God plans to destroy the wicked for their wickedness, but the wicked repents, then God changes his mind and allows the repented to live because they have repented and are no longer wicked. Only when the sinner refuses to repent, will they be condemned and obtain no mercy nor grace nor pardon from God: also if the righteous turn away from his righteousness and do wickedness, then God will change his mind from blessing that backslider and instead he will destroy that wicked one, unless that wicked repents from their sin and returns to the Lord and to his righteousness.
---Eloy on 12/3/09

In the day in which this situation was contrived man believed that God was one that could change his ways and actions.
Today,by new revelation, man should be fully aware that God is unchanging.If he was then he then is capable of making poor decisions and bad judgements.I believe in a God who, unlike primitive men,knows the book of hearts of men inside out.To withdraw a possible decision or threat is poor judgement and bad decision making.So the conversation never happened.
---earl on 12/2/09

Joel, God is the same yesterday, to day and forever.
About God changing, in order for God to remain the same in character-absolutely unchangeable, infinitely hating sin, and in His purpose to visit sin with judgment then if any city or any person changes in his attitude toward sin, God must necessarily change His attitude toward that person are city. If God remains the same, if His attitude toward sin and righeousness is unchanging, then His dealings with men must change as they turn from sin to repentance. His character remains ever the same, but His dealings with men change as they change from the position that is hateful to His unchanging hatred for sin, to one that is pleasing to His unchanging love of righteousness.
---MarkV. on 12/2/09

It is our example, of how *>we<* need, at times, to change from seeking revenge. God is our Example. He was demonstrating how sin is worthy of His wrath and people being wiped out, however He prefers mercy, and is
*personal* so He would interact with a human, about this, and be more influenced by one like Moses who is caring and wise, rather than let the sinful determine what He does. This also shows prophetically how in due time His own Son Jesus would on the cross be more influential to God, about how He deals with sinners . . . with mercy instead of revenge . . .
our Example, again > Ephesians 5:1-2 (o: God bless you, too (o:
---Bill_bila5659 on 12/2/09

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Abraham got god to change his mind about Sodom, and in fact god was quite negoitiatable.

Look at the story of Job. God apparenetly had no intention of testing Job until satan encouraged god to allow him to provide Job with increasingly terrible tortures to test Job's faith in god.

Where in the bible do you find god acting in any consistent manner? Sometimes he's vengeful, and sometimes he's forgiving.
---atheist on 12/2/09

To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

The fear of the LORD, that is Wisdom, and to depart from evil is Understanding. Job 28:28

Mercy is found through the Understanding of God's Knowledgeable Word, which starts with Wisdom !!

What the world perceives as God changing, is nothing more than His Mercy upon those(like Moses) who have the Wisdom to seek Understanding through the Lord, despite transgressions of evil they resided in previously.

-- Joel :

Brother, When our minds are no longer conformed to this world, we'll no longer See & Hear Exo.32:14 as God changing His mind : we'll Understand it's Truth as His Mercy upon man, b/c God nor His Preordained Creation changes from that which He has foreknown it to be.
---Shawn.M.T. on 12/2/09

Explain please? Okay here goes: Father God, can you please show Joel WHY you changed your mind? Because we are only human beings and your ways are higher than our ways and your thoughts are higher than our thoughts, so pleaseeeeeeeee show Joel why you changed your mind.

Joel, do you really think us humans know why a Holy God, a Just God, a Righteous God changed his mind?

Moses was walking uprighteously with God so maybe because Moses asked, God answered. How can we know the mind of God and how or what He thinks?
---Donna on 12/2/09

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