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Two Types Of Tongues

Why is it that people tend to not understand speaking in tongues when one is Baptised with the Gift of the Holy Ghost isn't the Gift of Tongues and that they are two different experiences?

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 ---Darlene_1 on 12/8/09
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Exzucuh, I believe what happened in Scripture for it is written. I don't believe what you and others believe you have. Since you cannot proof it is coming from God in any way shape or form. In expect everyone to believe that for 1900 years no one did what you say is happening now. God heals, people do not heal unless they are doctors who know what they are doing with the right medication and sometimes not even they can heal. Sorry. You can continue to put as many passages as you like about what happened then, but nothing on what you say is happening now. No documentions on anything.
---MarkV. on 1/7/10

---MarkV. on 1/7/10 You look at the problems and automatically dismiss the answers. Martha said Jesus if you had been here Lazarus would still be alive. Jesus said that He was the resurrection so it did not matter if he died or not he could raise him up. You look at all the problems a say because they are not getting solved therefore what Jesus said cannot be true. But healing and Spiritual things are true even if nobody ever partakes of them. All of your evidence is a lie the only thing that is true is God's word. Your kind of reasoning is why only eight people were saved In Noah's day. And All of Israel that came out of Egypt perished and never saw the promised land.
---exzucuh on 1/7/10

Anyone can throw stones, but not I. There is no proof whatsoever that the work done is of God. Just believing in you and some others is not good enough, it has to line up with Scripture. If there is thousands or millions around the world healing, I would think we would have no one in hospitals and everyone healthy. Just not true at all. We would have limps appearing. Blind people suddenly seeing, people rising from the dead all over the place. Purlong lives, maybe eternal physical life where we would not need salvation for eternal life.
---MarkV. on 1/7/10

Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
---exzucuh on 1/7/10

Exzucuch, we are not talking about carpentry, we are talking about the Word of God. We are not building mansions. Educating ourselves on what people claim is true, is not what Scripture tells us to do. Scripture tells us to examine the Word of God and interprete it correctly, then apply it to our lives. A person that doesn't have the gift of tongues absolutely has the right to question anyone speaking in a tongue which is not languages. If you speak in other languages by the Holy Spirit then you have a case. Otherwise all the gibberish means nothing. And if you can authenticate the healing you do is of God, then go for it. Proof it.
---MarkV. on 1/7/10

A person that has no experience in carpenter work has no business correcting a carpenter or telling him he is not doing his Job right.
You need to educate yourself and do the Job yourself to have that expertise. Neither does a person that does not have the gift of tongues have authority to correct or give advice on something they could not possibly know anything about. Get the gift an then make your accusations. There is good and bad in everything but a good tree always produces good fruit. Jesus said you cannot have it both ways.
---exzucuh on 1/6/10

Mark V,thank you I hope you and your family have a great New Year too. Thanks also for saying you are sorry you put it that way,that was kind of you. My concern wasn't for my seeing what you said but if that possibly could be ill received by God. I am concerned for you. I know there are fakes in this world,even Satan has counterfeits for God's real,but they really are few and far between. I don't think I have seen more than 5-10 in the whole 60 years since I commited my life to CHrist. I know right away the phony from the real through the discernment given by the Holy Ghost. The real is easily received and brings what lines up with the written Word of God. The phony is like throwing a bucket of ice water over me. I reject it.
---Darlene_1 on 1/6/10

Darline, happy new year to you and family. Sorry for putting it that way. Though not everyone out there, but most I have talked to in person and on here. You are right, many Pentacostals are different about the gifts, I had already said that and was happy Rodney and I could talk, but I had a good feeling somehow he would question my faith because most who speak on the gifts do the same thing the SDA's do with the Sabbath, they are good and holy with the Holy Spirit and everyone else does not have the Holy Spirit. Not a problem I still love him.
---MarkV. on 1/5/10

Mark V,No disrespect but I am Pentecostal and I've not been angry,please don't lump everyone into the same profile. Not all of us believe the same,and most Pentecostals don't believe you have to receive the Gift of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues to receive salvation. Salvation only comes through Jesus. HG is a Gift,in real life we can either accept a gift or refuse it without going to hell. I do hope you will reconsider calling tongues gibberish. It doesn't matter to me personally what you say,but I am concerned since the only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme the HG. Blaspheme means to speak of or address with irreverence,to revile or abuse. Irreverence is lacking proper respect or seriousness. Blessings
---Darlene_1 on 1/5/10

Rodney, this will be my last response to you since you see me without the Holy Spirit unsaved. As I had told you before it is a matter of time before the Pentacostal begin to get angry and getting defensive. You really surprise me by answering very good. I am sorry it could not last. Thanks again for the discussions. I am sorry you had to go there. It's normal Rodney, don't feel bad, it never fails, that is what happens when Tongues and the gifts are discussed. I wish you the best in your walk.
---MarkV. on 1/4/10

Hi Mark I agree with you except for the part about gibberish. There were no Pentecostalists in Acts 2, No TV evangelists at Cornelius' house and noone arguing the point at Ephesus They just heard the word, mixed it with faith and they received power from on high. Theres no mention of emotionalism It just states simply what the unchanging God did. As it happens my experience was quite emotionally charged but for many of my friends and family it was not and long after the emotions have faded tongues is still there as a constant reminder of the power and love of God just like the manna in the wilderness
---Rodney on 1/4/10

Rodney, I hope you have a wonderful New Year. Let me say if anything brings you closer to Christ now that you are saved, that is wonderful. If speaking in gibberish to God is your thing, so be it.
The Pentacostals do a lot of things that races their emotions. The televangelist get people in an esctatic emotional state to preach many times things not in Scripture and people don't notice cause they are in a trance. Things that to me are not necessary at all. Emotions conversion is not legit. Because it gets people to commit when they are most emotional. I have seen many go to an alter call twenty times, over and over, without even hearing the gospel. I mean thousands. There conviction is not from the Holy Spirit.
---MarkV. on 1/2/10

Hi Mark and Darlene Thank you for your well wishes Ipray the Lord prospers us all in our understanding and desire to follow Jesus in sincerity and truth.
Mark I obviously dont speak for where youve been I've just been at a camp where everyone loves talking about every aspect of salvation including the gifts. When I first spoke in "tongues" I was filled with a desire to worship God and commit my life to ways of the Lord previously i was.nt sure if God even existed I dont u8nderstand how this can be a bad thinor negative in anyway and it was easy to get I received the very first time I had prayed in my entire life at the age of 31 Its a pity your experience has been so negative
---Rodney on 1/1/10

Rodney and Darline, Merry Christmas to you both and everyone else who celebrates the birth of Christ. This is the last month of the year and a very hard one for many since most companies lay-off during this time. May God continue to bless you Darline and everyone who wants to learn more about God.
Rodney, it is my experience that the gifts are a very touchy subject to all Pentacostals. As I said before I have seen how people respond when you ask them about the topic. I also say, why can't everyone get along? Why do people get so hostile so fast? Pride. I am not angry at anyone about this subject. All I did study about it and moved on. Too many fakes talking gibberish talk to no one trying to sound very holy. And no real languages at all.
---MarkV. on 12/24/09

Rodney thank you and may your Christmas be Merry and your New Year wonderful.
To all of you I wish all the best God has for everyone. Blessings

---Darlene_1 on 12/23/09

Hi Mark, Darlene and everyone
Firstly I hope you all have a nice Christmas with your loved ones and a safe new year.
Mark I really don't understand why people would be angry to answer questions about gifts, tongues etc. That certainly hasn't been my experience. I did look up tongues in Corinthians14 I noticed all the words translated tongue or tongues are from the same Greek word which means tongues or language except for v21 where it is a combination of a word meaning other and the word used in the rest of the chapter. So whether it is talking about tongues as in Pentecost or normal language like English depends on the context. Paul seems to differentiate by using the phrase "in the understanding"
---Rodney on 12/23/09

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Hi everyone 2*
Its a pity that there is so much confusion about this subject it wasn't supposed to be the case Corin12,1 says we shouldn't be "ignorant" meaning uninformed and God is not the author of confusion 14,33 When someone prays in an unknown tongue and edifys himself 14,4 this would be a negative if it were building up their own ego but the explanation is given by comparin 14,14 to Jude20 that we are actually building up (edifying) ourselves in our most Holy Faith
This is a fundamental purpose for speaking in tongues which is why it says i will pray in tongues and in the understanding and why Paul was thankful He prayed more than us all
I've said this before but I just wanted to make it a little clearer Thanks
---Rodney on 12/23/09

Mark V perhaps your anger is misplaced,not that you don't have the right to be angry but just that the people you asked really didn't know the answer. People can't answer what they don't understand and it has been my experience that many Pentecostals don't have indepth knowledge of the orderly working of the Holy Ghost Gifts of the Spirit or meanings of most words. It isn't taught in Pentecostal Churches as much as one would expect it to be,I certainly didn't learn all I know about them in church but from Bible study on my own and in womens study groups. The 1 Corinthians 14 where it uses unknown tongue simply means unknown language,just as the Bible says the Hebrew tongue,singular again,and meaning language. Blessings
---Darlene_1 on 12/23/09

Hey Rodney #2: you have been very kind answering me. Thanks for that. What I mean in pride is that when I was a Pentacostal, I had question on the gifts of tongues, and I went to three people different Pentacostals and aske the questions, and they were angry at me for asking them the questions. I never knew it was such a touchy subject for them since I didn't know much about the gifts at the time. I learn very fast that when you talk about the subject it upsets them very much. To the SDA's the Sabbath is their whole lives. And to the Catholics, they follow the Church and tradition no matter what Scripture has to say. They defend their church no matter if they are wrong. That is what I meant by pride. Thanks for answering Rodney, peace
---Mark_V. on 12/22/09

Rodney, of course it is not just you who disagrees. Do you know how many Pentacostals there is in the world? I am sure 90 per cent do not agree with me. I am sure that at least 80 percent of those will never care to check what tongues and tongue means in 1 Cor. 14. So it does not surprise me that you don't either. It was just information for you to look up if you really wanted to know the Truth. If you are happy where you are at, then the information is useless. Hey, I was right where you are nine years ago. So I know what you are saying. The only difference is purpose. I didn't care if I was Pentacostal, Baptist, or anything else. I have no pride in one or the other. Pentacostal are like SDA's, Catholics, too much pride in their denomination.
---Mark_V. on 12/22/09

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Hi Mark It seems it isnt just me who doesnt understand your interpretation of 1Corin 14
To me it is obvious all the references to tongues are talking about the same thing We talk to God v2 it edifys ourselves v4 were praying in the Spirit v14 which is building up in our holy faith (same as edifying) Jude20 we bless with the Spirit and give thanks well (v16-17) All these were for the private use of tongues But in a meeting tongues could be used up to 3 time with interpretation and provided it was done decently and in order
The plural or non plural is not a different thing just different tense
For eg. If we met some Europeans we might say He speaks in a French tongue, they speak in foreign tongues Its still talking about the same thing.
---Rodney on 12/20/09

Darline, thank you for your kind response. You are correct that other sources can be very damaging and not helpful. When I walk into a bible book store 99% of all the books are money making books from evangelist. You are right, these books lead people in all directions, and as usual, these books sell. Books that have mens achievements or Opinions of people who claim that through the Holy Spirit they can do many things, even to get a new car just claim it.
The good books on principles of Biblical Hermeneutics, Christology, and apologetics you have to order those. They don't sell. A lie always sells more then the Truth. God has gifted many great man through history who are ready to help any Christian who really has a passion to learn.
---MarkV. on 12/18/09

MarkV you're welcome. I know you weren't trying to convince me of anything. I wanted to share my experience because we aren't the only ones who read this and it might mean a lot to someone who is new to the Gifts of the Spirit. There is one thing I wonder based on experience. How much of truth is objective,for too often a persons truth is subjective and when it is there is no broad truth for all. I think I have already said this but I will repeat,the only truth for a Christian is the Bible itself. When we as Christians dig too deep into all kinds of sources,no matter how good we think they are,there is a very real possibility what we learn takes one away from Bible truth and into man's knowledge and view of what they want to prove as fact.
---Darlene_1 on 12/18/09

Alan, Acts 8 is just an example.
Acts 19:6
Acts 10:44-47
---Rickey on 12/18/09

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Alan, when I pray in tongues I am talking to no one other than God. When I speak in tongues during praise & worship it is as I's me as a born-again spirit speaking to no one other than God Himself. It requires no interpretation because it's not to minister to anyone. That's different from what he was talking about in 1Corinthians 12. 1Corinthians 12 tongues is the Holy Spirit's gift. It's as He wills.
Jude 20 shows that I build myself up when I spend time praying in tongues.
In Ephesians 5:18 it says, " being filled with the Spirit."
Simply means that a person must daily pray in tongues to charge him/herself up.
---Rickey on 12/18/09

Rodney, you will never be able to interpret 1 Cor. 14, correctly until you accept the fact that "Tongue" and "Tongues" are two different actions. Singular and plural. You can look up any wordstudy Bible for the words. Without doing this, your interpretation will always be wrong. You have to make sure what is taught is the correct teaching. I researched from whatever means possible. I was a member of a Pentecostal church, I became one for 7 years. The Truth is very important to me. I research because of the TV evangelist. Most of them are Pentecostal. All a bunch of liars and thiefs, who swindle the people of their money using the power of the Holy Spirit as their instrument. All coming from the same school in Florida.
---MarkV. on 12/18/09

Back to the original question
When one is baptised in The Holy Ghost whish is the same as receiving the Holy Ghost and having the Holy Ghost come upon you and being fille with the Holy Ghost you speak in tongues as the obvious outward sign (Acts1,5 1,8,2,4 2,33) Then in a meeting a Spirit filled beleiver can use the gift of tongues in an orderly way with no more than 3 gifts of tongues in a meeting 1 corinthians14,27 don in an orderly way and not to be forbidden 14,39-40
Notice that the answer to the question in 1Corin12,30 is yes in 1Corin14,26
---Rodney on 12/17/09

Rickey, I thank you, Darline, for your answers. I am not here to convince you of the Truth, only to give you the Truth. I come from a Pentacostal Church. When I first came to Christ it was through hearing the word from one of the members of that church. I am very well familiar with what you and Darline are talking about. Because of my membership, I took it upon myself to learn what tongues and the ministry of the Holy Spirit. Not to question the church teachings, but to know why they were doing what they did. I got every book I could think of concerning gifts. I even took a study on Derek Prince studies, even one on Blessing or Curse. So anything you say I have heard already. I am giving the correct interpretation. Peace to both of you.
---MarkV. on 12/17/09

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Rickey ... "In Acts they got saved and then recieved the baptism of the HS. They spoke in tongues..and this wasn't in a church nor was it to minister to another person"

What's the passage you are talking about? ... Clearly not Acts 2. 1-8

---alan8566_of_uk on 12/17/09

Hi all
Speaking in tongues is praying in the Spirit as Rickey quoted Pratiny in the Spirit builds us up in our most holy faith Jude 20 Its not an intellectual exercise but a spiritual blessing Ephesins 1,3 Say they have all spiritual blessings What a wonderful thing that The Lord does for those who himble themselves as a child and ask to be filled with the same Holy Spirit as in the Bible which is the only one and comes with all the same gifts(1Corin1,7) signs(Mark16,15-20) and benefits (2Peter 1,3) so that we serve our Lord fully
Thats why Paul said i thank my God I speak in Tongues more than you all (they all could) but not to the detriment of walking in love and serving the Lord
---Rodney on 12/17/09

The "gift of tongues" and "the baptism in the Holy Spirit" are 2-different things.

The gift of tongues mentioned in 1Corinthians 12 is as the Holy Spirit wills/moves. It is totally different from the baptism in the Holy Spirit as mentioned all throughout the book of Acts.

In Acts they got saved and then recieved the baptism of the HS. They spoke in tongues..and this wasn't in a church nor was it to minister to another person.

In 1Corinthians 14:2, "For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him], howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."
---Rickey on 12/17/09

>When we speak in tongues our born-again spirit speaks to God. That's our own spiritual prayer/praise language.
That needs no interpretation because it has nothing to do with anyone else. Tongues w/ interpretation is as the Spirit wills. It is a ministering gift...not a prayer language.A person baptized in the HS can speak in tongues at anytime they want to. It isn't dependent on the HS to unction that person.
---Rickey on 12/17/09

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1) New birth(John 3:3-5,1Corinthians 12:13)
2) Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5,8)
3) Water baptism (Matthew 28:19)

Baptism in the Holy Spirit includes, but isn't limited to, speaking in tongues.
In John 7:38 Jesus talked about being filled/full of/overflowing with the Holy Spirit.
---Rickey on 12/17/09

I Corinthians 14:14 says, "For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."

Speaking in tongues is spiritual and it is talking to God. This as you will/desire.
You, as a born-again spirit, are talking to God. Your natural mind will not understand it. Praying in tongues is basically praying the perfect will of God.
---Rickey on 12/17/09

MarkV don't worry this difference of opinion won't make any divide. Mark I read the verse plus above it, Acts 17:15-20 philosophers called Paul a babbler,setter forth of strange Gods,because he preached Jesus,verse 19 they called Pauls doctrine strange,20 said he brings srange things to their ears. In 22 Paul told them they are too superstitous. 23 Paul beheld devotions at an altar marked "TO THE UNKNOWN GOD",said you igorantly worship I shall declare him to you. In most of the following verses he told them of God,some believed,most didn't. No where did it say they worshipped the Unknown God in a tongue or gibberish,the "babbler" is what they called Paul. Sorry Mark it only proves Paul one speanking in tongue.
---Darlene_1 on 12/17/09

The Gifts of the Spirit/Holy Ghost only can be understood fully through faith. We come to Jesus by faith,we are saved by faith,we live a Christian Life by faith. Mark I know you wanted to be correct by your study,but I think I am correct by my faith and faith in God that all my Spiritual experiences are of him. No one can remove from anyone who has experienced the genuine move of the Holy Ghost through them in body ministry the fact of God's use of them which is affirmed under the scrunity of Ministers,plus we know our Masters voice. We can never be convinced by any written word apart from the Bible if it said don't,no matter how correct it may sound. All Charismatics speak in tongues,have Gifts,Noncharismatics don't.
---Darlene_1 on 12/17/09

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When we give our hearts to Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit indwells us at that point, period. I ask daily for the Spirit to indwell and lead me. The Bible speaks of many manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Not just tongues. Paul said that "not all speak in tongues". I sincerely believe that people who do not speak in tongues have the Spirit in just as full of a measure as I do (as I do speak in tongues at times). Any sincere believer has some type of manifestation of the Spirit and the manifestations can change according to what the Lord desires of the person. It could be a Word of Knowledge, Healing, Teaching or any of the others. We all have a gift/manifestation to use and develop but God can place any gift in us for His purpose.
---jody on 12/17/09

Darline, I understand this is a hard topic to speak of, and before I answer anyone I have to make sure what I put down is correct. I have researched this topic a lot and have checked with wordstudy Bibles, concerning the words. When I first saw that the writer was using two kinds of tongues, I research it. I know how important this topic is to many, but I answered only because Rodney made that comment, that only charasmatics are real Christians. That's why division always happens because of this topic, and I hope it won't divide us.
---MarkV. on 12/17/09

to truely understand "tongues" it is nessessary to worship in a none english speaking church. If you were to experience a church where the congregation speaks more than two languages, then we would understand what the bible is teaching. In such churches people are not always understood because of thier native language. Most often a multi-lingual interpretator is needed.
You will also see or hear people speaking softly to God in thier own language, and you will not understand.
---francis on 12/17/09

Hello sister Darline, Tongue, singular, is not a gift of the Holy Spirit. That is why tongue does not speak to man. Only to "a god" is the better translation, the Greek text has no definite article. And "Tongues" Plural, "However, in the Spirit he speaks mysteries. The singular is used because gibberish can't be plural, there are not various kinds of (non-languages). There are, however, various languages, hence when speaking of the true gift of language, Paul uses the plural to make the distinction. In Acts 17:23 the translation "unknown god" Their gibberish was worship of pagan deities. The Bible records no incident of any believer ever speaking to God in any other than normal language.
---MarkV. on 12/16/09

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MarkV Just information,tongue was not used with unknown for any connection to Pagan tongue. 1 Corinthians14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men but unto God:for no man understand him,howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 1 Corinthians14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 1 Corinthians 14:5 (tongues equal with prophesy when interpred)I would that ye all spake with tongues,but rather that you prophesied:for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues,except that he interpret,-. All Gifts of Spirit are orderly,limited by the situation in meeting and by leading of Bible system for use which are clearly spelled out for us.
---Darlene_1 on 12/16/09

Hi all.
Michael People are rejecting the refreshing as they alwayus have that doesn't make it wrong
Larry I'm sure your right about the category of church called charismatic but in any case the infilling of the holy Spirit is not an option so analysis of these titles does seem to suggest a difference of whether you neede the holy spirit or not even if that is not the intention
Mark have you read John16,7
Mark I received the Holy spirit 14 years ago with speaking in tongues At that exact time I received a desire to pray, fellowship, read the bible, preach the gospel and live a righteous life
---Rodney on 12/16/09

Rodney #2 continue:
Against the backdrop of carnality and counterfeit ecstatic speech learnd from the experience of the pagans, Paul covers 3 basic issues with regard to speaking in languages by the gift of the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor. 14:
1. It position, inferior to prophecy (vv. 1-9)
2. its purpose, a sign to unbelievers not believers (vv.20-25)
3. Its procedure, systematic, limited, and orderly (vv. 26-40).
---MarkV. on 12/15/09

Rodney, as I told Rickey I will tell you,
I don't know if you know this already but although it is not indicated consistently in some translations, the distinction between the singular "tongue" and the plural "tongues" is foundational to the proper interpretation of this chapter in 1 Cor. 14. Paul uses the singular to distinquish the counterfied gift of pagan gibberish and the plural to indicate the genuine gift of a foreign language (v.2). It was perhaps in recognition of that, that the King James Version (KJV) translators added consistently the word "Unknown" before every singular form, see, (vv.2,4,13,14,19,27).
The implications of that distinction will be noted as appropriate. Here is why,

---MarkV. on 12/15/09

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so when we are talking about charismatic and non-charismatic we are really talking about Christian and non-Christian

No Rodney. No one in the United States interchanges the word charistmatic with Christian. When a person identifies themselves as charistmatic they are clearly indicating they believe in tongues and everyone knows that.

In the U.S. ,most words are used based on their meaning not definition.
---larry on 12/15/09

Rodney, The ministry of the Holy Spirit has to be understood as a whole. The same Holy Spirit in the Old Testament is the same One in the New. The activity of the Holy Spirit or His actions in the lives of men are sporadic rather than constant.
In answer to your first question:
"When did the Disciples receive the Holy spirit prior to pentecost Do you have a scripture for this"
Yes I do, John 20:22.
"And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "receive the Holy Spirit"
This passage is after John 14:17, which has no 120 people as you quoted.
In order for them to witness to people with power, and do miracles they needed the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
---MarkV. on 12/15/09

Hi rodney
they went to the temple to preach the Gospel of Jesus (Acts5,42)Is this the same gospel as Acts 2:36-38?
Acts 3:19 is a fulfilment of Isa.28,11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Tongues was the sign of the rest and the refreshing also quoted in
1 cor.14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people, and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Is this the time of refreshing?
---michael_e on 12/15/09

Hi Mark Darlene and Michael
Mark "In order for them to witness to people with power, and do miracles they needed the indwelling of the Holy Spirit." This is the reason we need it today They couldnt of got holy Spirit in John 20 because of john16,7 would have made Jesus a liar it was an instruction in john 20 like in Acts1,4 and 8 The 120 people are mentioned in Acts1,15 Michael they went to the temple to preach the Gospel of Jesus (Acts5,42) Acts3,19 is a fulfilment of Isaiah28,11 Tongues was the sign of the rest and the refreshing also quoted in 1corinthians14,21
Darlene To be in likeness of resurrection (Romans5,5) we must have Holy Spirit (Romans7,11) There is only one Spirit so empowerment and salvation are simultaneous
---Rodney on 12/15/09

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The Bible really makes any trasition for Gods people from the first Covenant to the Second Covenant very plain and easy. For anything God establishes has a method or pattern which he lays out in plain instructions. There is a pattern or a rule,with directions how to acomplish it, for all God requires of mankind for salvation. There is a pattern with directions for water baptism. There is a pattern for receiving the Holy Ghost and the out come of receiving is given,first spoke in tongues,received power of God,later given the Gifts of the Spirit for Ministry,including Gift of Tongues. It all is so very simple,to me,when we stick to what the Bible says.
---Darlene_1 on 12/15/09

Rodney hi,the baptism people had received before salvation,was the one John preached,baptism of repentance and they all were rebaptised in Jesus Name in the baptism of rebirth. They believed in Christ,confessed sin,repented,forgiven of sins(saved)Acts 16:31,they were baptised in water to be buried with Christ(Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him into baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,even so we also should walk in newness of life.),as Christ rose from dead we arose from the grave,leaving old man dead and behind,rose a new creature in Christ,born again,then we received Holy Ghost which is the baptism of empowerment for service to God Acts 1:8.
---Darlene_1 on 12/15/09

If you think you are spiritual israel or believe in replacement theology, then tongues would be important, along with physical circumcision. Acts 2 pentacost was JEWISH Acts 2:5. they still had temple worship Acts 3:1. Acts 3:19 does not sound like church language.
---michael_e on 12/15/09

Rodney, The ministry of the Holy Spirit has to be understood as a whole. The same Holy Spirit in the Old Testament is the same One in the New. The activity of the Holy Spirit or His actions in the lives of men are sporadic rather than constant.
In answer to your first question:
"When did the Disciples receive the Holy spirit prior to pentecost Do you have a scripture for this"
Yes I do, John 20:22.
"And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "receive the Holy Spirit"
This passage is after John 14:17, which has no 120 people as you quoted.
In order for them to witness to people with power, and do miracles they needed the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
---MarkV. on 12/15/09

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Hi Mark Darlene and others,
Mark a couple of questions When did the Disciples receive the Holy spirit prior to pentecost Do you have a scripture for this?
Jesu said that the Spirt was with them but would be in them John14,17 And what about the rest of the 120 People?
As for Baptism why were many people in the bible baptised before salvation after the Holy spirit and salvation was available to all
Eg Acts19,2-6 and Acts8,12-17 remembering that without the Holy Spirit the bible makes it clear a person isn't saved (Titus3,5 Romans 8,9) I don't believe in RCC doctrine
I beleive in the Bible and i believe in the gospel which came not unto me in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance, 1Thess1,5
---Rodney on 12/15/09

Rodney #2:
Water baptism does nothing to a new believer. It is an act of obedience and is the image of the death and the new life of a believer. Only the RCC believe that water baptism brings about regeneration. So that everyone who is baptized in water is born again. But that is not what protestant churches teach. RCC has a work salvation, we don't. It is by Grace through faith.
---MarkV. on 12/14/09

Rodney, let me answer this way, Darline put the first passages. Acts 1:4,5, 8. Jesus had told them to gather together and to wait, and ten days later the day came, when they were to be baptized with the Holy Spirit at Pentacost. The Apostles had already experienced the Holy Spirit's saving, guiding, teaching and miracle working power. Soon, in ten days, they would receive His indwelling presence and a new dimension of power for witnessing.
After Pentacost, now all new believers are regenerated (brought to life) and the Spirit's baptizing work places the believer "in Christ," The Spirit indwelled only a few people in the O.T. but now He would indwell all believers (Rom. 6:3,4, Gal. 3:27, 1 Cor. 12:13, Col. 2:12).
---MarkV. on 12/14/09

Sinners entire being,mind,thoughts,words,flesh/body,is filled with sin. When sinners believe,repent,are Baptised with water,that baptism represents the death,burial,and resurection of Christ,therefore they are buried with Christ and as Christ arose,so do the repented,and come out of that grave of water baptism a new creature in Christ,cleansed from all their sins. A new Creature can receive the Gift of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost who comes to dwell in the cleansed Temple which they have become,the Temple of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38 Thy must be,baptised in water,saved,before filled with HG because the HG will not dwell in an unclean Temple,nor indwell with sin.
---Darlene_1 on 12/14/09

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Hi Mark I'm sorry If i offended you or you feel that I've condemned you
If I may I'd like to ask your opinion on these scriptures
John13,20 You receive Jesus if you receive Him who Jesus Sent (See John 14:26 & John 15,26) And they received the Holy Spirit at pentecost and therefore they received Jesus
If it doen't mean this what else could it mean? Receiving the Holy Spirit is not difficult or complicated its easy It took me 2 minutes My kids received at ages 4,8,8 and 9 I don't believe it could be a demon there is no scripture to support this theory and it has only been beneficial to my family and everyone i know who has had the pentecostal experience Again i'm sorry if it appeared that this was a personal attack against you
---rodney on 12/14/09

Sometimes people over-analyze the manifestations from God: God is supernatural therefore the good gifts, like heavenly tongues, which come down from heaven from the Father of lights are also supernatural. Little children whom sense that Jesus is all-good are readily attracted to the things from God, so we would better learn from the children's response that if we as adults would just stop trying to figure God out, and simply accept like little children do to their parent, which knowingly accepts God's blessings as being specially lavished down upon us his children.
---Eloy on 12/13/09

Rodney, the comment is one that many don't like. You are displaying your own righteousness while giving others condemnation, since none christians are condemned, as you said, only charasmatics are christians.
Every passage you gave has nothing to do with what you quoted. First of all when you speak in tongues, there is no way you can authenticate it is coming from God. You could be possessed by a demon and not even know it. Your focus is a gift, when it should be your salvation. I myself don't care if someone speaks in tongues, I do not even answer here unless someone like you makes those comments then I want to answer. You want to talk about the Holy Spirit and baptism lets do that, but don't condemn me before you know me.
---MarkV. on 12/13/09

Hi Mark, Darlene and Karen
Mark Yes I agree it is a divisive comment but not a comment that contradicts anything that Jesus said
John13,20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
If you read Darlenes post you will see that at pentecost they not only received the Holy Spirit they received Jesus and salvation(Titus3,6 Romans8,9)Luke11,13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
As long as people reject this simple message and try to replace it with alternative salvation like the sinners prayer there will always be division
---Rodney on 12/12/09

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KarenD I agree,the Holy Ghost is a person,no reason to yell at me,I never said He isn't. Jesus said,Acts 1:4,5-wait for the "promise of the Father",-.-you shall be baptised with the Holy Ghost,-. Peter said Acts 2:38,39,-you shall receive the "gift of the Holy Ghost". For the "promise"is unto you,your children,all that are far off,-. Acts 10:45-because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the "gift of the Holy Ghost ". The reason the Holy Ghost is a gift is because in God's Old Covenant only Prophets,Priests,and Kings received infilling. Under the New Covenant all who receive Christ can receive the gift of the Holy Ghost,1 Corinthians6:19-your body is the Temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you,-..
---Darlene_1 on 12/12/09

Rodney, I don't know where you get your information but it is wrong. The reason so many disagree on this topic is because of remarks like the one you made where you said,
"It is derived from the same root word as Christ and Christian so when we are talking about charismatic and non-charismatic we are really talking about Christian and non-Christian
Not the organisation but the Individual who has or has not been anointed with the Spirit of truth"

That is so far from the Truth Rodney. You are combining the baptism of the the new believer in Christ with a special manifestation of the Spirit (gifts). Using both as one and really condemning those who are not Charismatic by calling them none Christian.
---MarkV. on 12/12/09

The Comforter who was promised by Jesus was the Holy Ghost which is the third person of the Trinity. HE IS NOT A GIFT. HE IS A PERSON!!!!
---KarenD on 12/11/09

Hi Darlene and Larry
A point of interest the word Charismatic comes from the Greek word Chrisma translated as anointing in 1 John 2,27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things,(John14,26) and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.(1john4,13)

It is derived from the same root word as Christ and Christian so when we are talking about charismatic and non-charismatic we are really talking about Christian and non-Christian
Not the organisation but the Individual who has or has not been anointed with the Spirit of truth
---Rodney on 12/11/09

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people don't want to understand that they are different. They don't want to believe that speaking in tongues is a sign that you have been baptised in the spirit. They want to believe that they can raise there hand and say that I accept god in my heart then they are saved. St.john 3 clearly says that you can not do that. Nicodemus said to jesus, that he believed that he was sent from heaven. Jesus replied, you must be born of the water and the spirit to enter heaven.
---batieste on 12/11/09

Darlene, for the people who are seeking an experience or believe tongues must follow salvation it doesn't matter. They are fit to define christians in charistmatic and non-charistmatic terms as if fundamentalist like Billy Graham or John MacArthur are somehow handicapped.
The work of the Holy Spirit in Acts had little to do with what most people now experience. It was the miraculous reverse of the curse at Babel and evangelical edification both of which is lacking in most public displays of the "prayer language." Pentecost was the empowerment and anointing for the great commission.
---larry on 12/10/09

Darlene, you are correct the prayer language witnessed in charistmatic congregations with both new and mature christians is much different than the Gift of Tongues.
The first is an experience that comes from the "overflowing" of the Holy Spirit, where the gift of tongues is under the "control" of the Holy Spirit.
I've spent 40 years in Charismatic congregations and have never witnessed the gift explosion described in Acts. Heaven is much more interested in the English-only speaking missionaries spreading the gospel in fluent Portugese to Brazilian tribes, versus the heat of the moment personal experience I see in church. The second isn't necessary to accomplish the first. Been there done that.
---larry on 12/10/09

KarenD Acts 1:4,5 (Jesus),commanded the Apostles to wait for the promise of the Father,-. --Ye shall be baptised with the Holy Ghost--. Acts 2:38,39 -and ye shall receive the "gift" of the Holy Ghost-.-the promise is unto you,your children,to all far off-. Acts 2:4-they were "all" filled with the Holy Ghost,began to speak with tongues,as the Spirit gave utterance. Acts 10:45,46-poured out the "gift" of the Holy Ghost. -heard them speak with tongues. Acts 19:6 Paul laid hands on them ,the Holy ghost came on them and they spake with tongues. Book of Acts did not require interpretation instructions because the "Gift" was the infilling,of HG not tongues as gift.
---Darlene_1 on 12/10/09

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Rodney thanks for the useful information. Karen D hope this helps you see why I said what I did. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 12/10/09

Rodney...Thanks! I understand the Holy Spirit very well and am Baptized in the Holy Ghost myself. However, you did give the scriptures which I had asked Darlene to give.
---KarenD on 12/10/09

Hi Darlene and Karen
The 2 aspects of speaking in tongues is a prayer language to be used in private and the gift of speaking out in tongues at a meeting to be accompanied by interpretation
1Corin14,2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him, however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
and the gift of speaking in tongues at a meeting to be accompanied by interpretation
1Corin14,26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret.
---Rodney on 12/9/09

Thanks Darlene. I know many of us here are anxiously awaiting those scriptures. Could you please post them before you go any further in your answers. Thanks so much.
---KarenD on 12/9/09

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1Corinthians 12:1,10,11,28,30 now concerning Spiritual Gifts,-. --divers kinds of tongues,the interpretation of tongues. And God has set some in the church,--. Have all the gifts of healing?do all speak with tongues?do all interpret? 11 -dividing to every man severally as he will. 1Corinthians 14:5,13,27 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied,for greater is he who prophesieth than he that speaks in tongues,except he interpret,-.- let him that speaks in an unknown tongue pray that he intrepret. If any man speaks in an unknown tongue,let it be by two,or at the most by three,and let one intrepret. To be continued tomorrow.
---Darlene_1 on 12/9/09

KarenD I shall be glad to look up the verses to explain where I am coming from. I never have listened to people to form my beliefs,we are all fallible. The main reason I believe that is from personal experience and I realize that isn't a good enough reason for anyone else to accept my word. Just for informations sake I will share that with you. I received the Gift of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost with tongues when in my early 20's but no gift of tongues. When I was in early 40's I was driving down the road praying for my friend to receive the Gift of Tongues and Interpretation and all at once I began speaking in tongues and the next thing I received the interpretation,all for the very first time. It wasn't long before God used me in a Meeting.
---Darlene_1 on 12/9/09

Darlene...Please quote scriptures to explain what you have just asked. Don't quote what someone has told you. Please quote only scriptures. Thanks.
---KarenD on 12/9/09

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