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Donating Bodies To Science

With the rising costs of funerals and cremations, more people are donating their bodies to science through the human registry program. What is your opinion on this procedure?

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 ---Bob on 2/3/10
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You all need to stop condemning people just because you disagree with them. Haven't you ever been so sure you were right before ...and then... found out you were wrong? In fact, if you are so sure you are right and you are being so prideful about it, I'm thinking you are probably wrong. Read Proverbs 6:16-19. I've found a helpful, inexpensive book titled Qauntum Faith, by Annette Capps that would be helpful here.
---Fay on 2/19/10

I love technology. It is fascinating. Learning science and finding causes and effects are enlightening. I love to learn how things work. But, I see it as learning how God made things.

Amen, Rod4him. The more I learn about science, the more in awe I am of God's intricate, how efficient, how unimaginable. I believe He gave us knowledge to use. Science itself is nothing to worship. But the creator of all things, who holds the universe together, is totally trustworthy and deserving of all worship and praise.
---Donna66 on 2/16/10

Rod4him, That's exactly right.

I just want poeple to be aware of facts behind this world. These tools are to be used, but not prasied, loved, or worshipped. All things that come from God are effective 100%.

Same with Biblical Prophecy(100%) vs. Manmade prophecy.

As in the Proverb I quoted on the love of money and the use of money.

---James on 2/16/10

James no one needs to "reread" what you wrote. You have made no Biblical sense whatsoever. We will name a waffle after you though because you appear to be trying to escape some of your own thoughts. That is good. I hope you will soon see the complete truth. Everything that God made good Satan has tried to corrupt. Your statements have no validity.
We still welcome you as part of the "Forum Family" so don't let this set back discourage you.
---Elder on 2/16/10

James, perhaps what you're saying is one should keep their hope in God and not in science. If that is what you are saying, I agree with you.

Yes, many people trust and set their confidence on the ability of technology to help them have a good life.

I love technology. It is fascinating. Learning science and finding causes and effects are enlightening. I love to learn how things work. But, I see it as learning how God made things.

I used to ride horses when my kids were young, however, I am thankful for cars. What a mess the horses would make. Can you imagine our cities full of horse manure?

We can use cell phones, computers, and drive cars, and we can still have our confidence and hope in Jesus Christ.
---Rod4Him on 2/16/10

Please reread my posts!

It says that we are to USE these thing as the Lord did as well.

The difference is you give praise to them as if it were from God. So you deceive yourselfs and have your hearts here on Earth.

You are in LOVE with its accomplishments and the miracles of Satan.
The Prince of the Earth (Science)

"For the LOVE of money is evil". Yet the Lord and the Desciples used money, but... they DID NOT LOVE money. You LOVE Science, this world andthe works of Satan, Because you are decieved.

If it were truly from God then it would be 100% good. No side effects, all cured, all fed etc. (i.e Gods new Creation)
---James on 2/16/10

I expect that those of you who disdain "science" do not use electricity for heat or air conditioning or cooking or TV. You must not use plastics or polyester or paint. Surely you wouldn't drive a car or ride in one...the internal combustion engine is a "perversion " of nature. And if you break a leg, you mend it with duct tape...ooops duct tape is of the devil,too!

If you DO use these things, how do you justify it?
---Donna66 on 2/15/10

Elder ... Why should James want to use a thermometer if he gets a fever?

He would surely welcome the illness, and the pain and immobility caused by a groken leg, and he would not want to use antibiotics to quell the poisons followinga bad & dirty cut.

Surely, he wants to get out of this Hell of a world as soon as possible?
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/16/10

James as long as there are people like you and me Satan doesn't need Science to make evil.
Our brain is composed of many chemicals and tissue. When one of these chemicals are distorted it is Science that will tell Doctors how to treat the ailments. Are you saying this is evil?
You use Science and its benefits each day. You won't stop. Remember the PC example? Yet you are still posting.
The Bible says a man who knows to do good but does wrong, it is sin. Maybe the problem is not Science but you.
Everything you said is from human perspective, not one bit of Scripture.
PS. Dont use a thermometer to tell if ya got a fever. They use mercury and that evil Science stuff (according to you) it shouldnt be done by you... sin ya know!
---Elder on 2/15/10

Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever,
Psa 71:21 Thou(God) shalt increase my greatness, and comfort me(David) on every side.
Isa 51:3a For the LORD shall comfort Zion
Exd 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,
Pro 8:12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
1Sa 2:3 Talk no more so exceeding proudly, let [not] arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD [is] a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
---MIchael on 2/15/10

Our bodies are just a vessel for our souls. Our bodies die. It is our souls that live eternally.
---Kris on 2/15/10

Elder ... You're so right!

God made stones ... people can throw them at each other. He made the sea, and people can drwwon in it.

Here again you are unknowingly reffering to the Old Creation and the Fall of Man. For NONE of these concepts you espouse will occur in the the New Creation. Making your scenario invalid.

As I posted previously the only entity who has an interest in preservng this hell we live in is Satan. The King of Hell. It is he who what to make this world livable and indeed comfortable. For himself and all who blindly follow and admire his gifts and miracles in science. To his magic you all say amen and give him praise???

---James on 2/15/10

You confuse science with nature.

Science itself is the manipulation and perversion of materials and natural functions given to us by God.

The reason for its very existence is based on the Fall of Man (The ultimate science). Since man has fallen, all these evil corruption of nature fell along with him. It will remain with him until the New creation.

Satan on the other hand is trying to preserve this life and earth. Science is the tool inwhich he does this and his attempt to make it livable(against the reality of the Fallen Creation). So as the fruit in the Garden was VERY attractive, so is science today.

And as I see from these posts it deceives many.
---James on 2/15/10

Elder ... You're so right!

God made stones ... people can throw them at each other. He made the sea, and people can drwwon in it.

So these things are evil ... by Rhonda's logic everything God made is evil.
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/15/10

James said, "Since Science is both good and evil simultaneously it cannot come from God.
So by conclusion, it is an evil deceptive tool of Satan to invoke a false sense of security here on Earth."
Do you ever read what you write?
I can take a gun or a hammer and kill someone. That doesn't make the device evil but the person using it. Both, like Science, are inanimate so there is no evil or good in them.
You claim that Science did not come from God. Do you believe that there is another Creator? Did God create the gas we breathe? Since all truth is Gods truth when Science proves something wouldnt that be Gods truth?
---Elder on 2/15/10

James- I don't expect to change your mind
BUT you might as well argue that fire is "bad" because it can destroy and disfigure...ignoring the fact that it warms people in the cold and cooks their food.

Some drugs are given precisely for their beneficial "side effects".( (And on whom do you blame "medical errors"...does medicine magically administer itself?)

Some toxins (e.g.chlorine,clorox) kill bacteria and prevent disease. Pesticides are responsible for feeding thousands who might otherwise go hungry. New technology is even making it possible that nuclear wastes may soon be harmlessly re-used as fuel.

It is not "science" that is imperfect, but those who employ it.
---Donna66 on 2/15/10

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Donna66, your premise is wrong.

Assuming that 2+2=4 is perfect. You make the false assumption that makes all of science perfect for the exception of willful evil acts of man.

That there is good which comes out of science. I have already stated that.
But science in its entirety has a dark half to it.

I am NOT referring to willful evil. But the byproducts of science (Toxins, Medical errors, Drug side effects, pesticides, nuclear waste, etc)

Since Science is both good and evil simultaneously it cannot come from God.

So by conclusion, it is an evil deceptive tool of Satan to invoke a false sense of security here on Earth. This has undermined our faith and is the TRUE purpose of science.

---James on 2/14/10

James-- If it were true then science would be perfect and have no evil side

On the contrary scientific principles are reliable as 2+2=4 or the fact that humans cannot breathe under water (without special equipment). Is mathmatics good, or is it evil? Is water good or is it evil?

True science has no evil side. Those who use it can make it good or evil by the way they use it.
---Donna66 on 2/14/10

Your assumption this knowledge is of God is false.

If it were true then science would be perfect and have no evil side. A side that Satan does NOT want you to dwell on, or see.

Satans Science is based on LOGIC, Gods knowledge is not.

It is Satan that has been giving man tools to seduce man into believing things are not so bad here on Earth.

Again , I am not talking about NOT using the tools of this kingdom, But should we NOT have more faith in our OWN kingdom than this world knowledge.

So little faith in man is mainly due to all these so-called Scientifc advancements. That is his goal with science. Because who do you go to first when you are sick or in need of information. God or Satans kingdom?
---James on 2/14/10

If you agree that science has both a good side and a dark side (e.g. Nuclear, Medicine, Internet, TV etc) Then by deduction you must surmise that is does NOT come from God.
---James on 2/14/10

Your logic is, once again, flawed.

Everything that we know and the ability to use our brains to create comes from God. (Proverbs, Daniel, Amos, Jeremiah).

God has also given us the freedom to use that knowledge. Mankind has used this knowledge for both good and evil. God did not give us the "dark side of evil", man turned it that way.
---NurseRobert on 2/14/10

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James //YES! I am serious, DEAD SERIOUS in your case.

What are you talking about?

Elder had some good observations concerning inconsistencies you must not have thought about. You use the results of science all the time.

Yes, I did notice that the question I asked several months ago was answered last week. Maybe you had good motives, but truth now is more powerful than truth delayed.
---Rod4Him on 2/14/10

Rod4him... I answered your question of 3 month ago concernig the use of a Title. I had even credited to you, but due to the 125 ltd, I had to leave your name out of that post. Please see What's up for Febuary for your answer.

To answer your questions on this post...

YES! I am serious, DEAD SERIOUS in your case.
---James on 2/13/10

James I know that many don't agree with you here. But, I see your point.
I also see that you don't even believe what you write. Here is why.
You display yourself as godly and say that science is Satanic. You must also understand the PC you are using came as a result of science. Your using it would be ungodly. Now that you know that I guess you won't post any more foolishness, huh?
You must also understand the gas you use came as a result of science.
I guess we will see ya walking around somewhere also............?
PS. Dont go to a hospital cause they use a lot of science there. Ask your friend Nurse...
---Elder on 2/13/10

Who gives earthly knowledge?
Who gives spiritual knowledge?
If you agree that science has both a good side and a dark side (e.g. Nuclear, Medicine, Internet, TV etc)
Then by deduction you must surmise that is does NOT come from God. Since God has NO Dark side. If you can agree to that, then again you must resolve that since it is Not from God then it is from Satan. The only two choices.
Does it mean we should not make used of it? No. For Christ and the Apostles made use of it (I.E. Money). But they were (and we should be) aware of who is behind this facade of Good.
Does that make sense to you?
---James on 2/14/10

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And Nursey is always a good example of a Godly person.

God does NOT reside in San Francisco Nurse Robert
---James on 2/13/10

I've hesitated to respond because who knows if James is serious or just looking to get a response. He claimed to be a "pastor" and never clarified why he would allow himself to call himself that for months.

I don't want to insult him, but I guess he has insulted himself.

However, to anybody who reads this blog, James is way out in left field in this topic.

The problem is is that James loses ALL credibility in anything he says, assuming he is a he and not pretending to be a he.
---Rod4Him on 2/13/10

Reducing fever with a drug is a good thing. Stopping infection with a drug is a good thing. Setting broken bones is a good thing .... Preventing leprosy is a good thing. The list goes on, and on, and on.

What man does with this good thing, can be evil for the heart of man is evil*****

That's okay Mark you DELIBERATELY IGNORE the obvious or are so blinded in your efforts to DEFEND that which is NOT FROM The Father in Heaven ...

please ENLIGHTEN me where is this GOOD when medical science is KILLING more than 100K people a year?>
Are the "saved" PHYSICAL lives of a few with fever done at the COST of the 100K who loose their life

And you call that GOOD how duped you really are

now science is faith?
---Rhonda on 2/13/10

Donna... why even attempt to debate "pastor" Jim on these issues. He argues points for which he has no proof. His statement that "ALL SCIENCE IS OF SATAN!" says a lot about him.

You were right about brain dead. "Pastor" Jim proves it.
---NurseRobert on 2/12/10

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This may seem radical to the unenlighten.

But know this, that Gods people (The Hebrews) never had science. Their entire culture revolved around God and they never second guessed him.

Science on the other hand has its origens in Pagan cultures (i.e Greeks, Romans, Persian, Babylonians etc).

ALL these cultures were Satanic and science based. AS Enoch said... the fallen angels will be teaching Man their Magic, this in an attempt to separate Man from God even further. And today we see Man attempting to raise their throne as high as God. Do you not see this? Are your Hearts and Minds Blind to the truth of God?

Is not the Kingdom of Earth comfortable to you so that you no longer fear God or need to serve him.
---James on 2/13/10

Who agrees with James that science (and the "conveniences" thereof) have made for heaven on earth? Or WILL make for heaven on earth? If that's one of Satan's lies, he's a worse lier than I thought.

Nobody I've met yet, if they break a leg, treats it by staying home and applying herbal remedies.
---Donna66 on 2/12/10

You see ...medical science IS NOT FROM The Father in Heaven

no matter how you attempt to IMPLY it from HIS Holy Word
---Rhonda on 2/12/10

James 1:17 "Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow"

Every GOOD thing given is from the Heavenly Father.

Reducing fever with a drug is a good thing. Stopping infection with a drug is a good thing. Setting broken bones is a good thing. Stitching up wounds is a good thing. Preventing plague is a good thing. Preventing leprosy is a good thing. The list goes on, and on, and on.

What man does with this good thing, can be evil for the heart of man is evil.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/12/10

Because of Gods creative power we have science so how could it be Satanic? Of course Satan tries to pervert everything that God does and has done.
All healing is Gods healing. All truth is Gods truth. Satan is a liar and the father of lies.
Christians should be able to determine the difference in these issues and see and understand the truth.
---Elder on 2/12/10

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So the following are from Satan
The recent repair and retention of my teeth
My lady friend's mended knee
The eradication of smallpox
The removal of my daughter's gallstones
Clinton's recent heart surgery
Blood transfusion, and thus most operations
Cataract removal
All cancer treatments

It's nice to know that!
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/12/10

James, would you care to explain to me how my recent operation that will give me good hearing--due to amazing scientific advances--is of "satan"?! Give me a break please!
---Mary on 2/12/10


All the scientific conveniences we have on this planet come from Satan. He wants us to be comfortable and make this heaven on earth. He has managed to make many Carnal Bourgeois Christians real comfy. They are under the delusion that these are Blessings of God. THEY ARE NOT!

Notice that all the medical/Scientific advances have a Dark side. A side Satan does not want you to dwell on. I have often said it is harder to be A Christian in America than in a 3rd world country because we are deceived by these creature comforts and therefore are lukewarm in their faith. Not the same as the Martyrs of early Christianity. OBAMA SAID "I WANT TO RESTORE SCIENCE TO ITS PROPER PLACE" WHO'S MESSIAH IS HE?
---JAMES on 2/12/10

Medical science is NOT from God it is from Satan
---Rhonda on 2/11/10

Normally I agree with you Rhonda, but on this, you have not been reading your Bible.


So where in YOUR BIBLE does it say to create a drug that treats one symptom and destroys the body with its chemicals in other words the medicine KILLS

You can check the medical statistics to see more than 100K people DIE every year in the name of Medical Science its drugs and "treatments"

Is this the "good medicine" you foolishly quote from Gods Word to support medical science

You see ...medical science IS NOT FROM The Father in Heaven

no matter how you attempt to IMPLY it from HIS Holy Word
---Rhonda on 2/12/10

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Thank you Donna66. As a 30-year health care professional and Christian sister your words are wise.

One of the service coordinators at my church is also a funeral director and says that he does about one funeral every two weeks. All others both secular AND Christian are choosing cremations for purely economic reasons with faith or tradition playing almost no part in the decision.
When you don't have the money you don't have the money.
---larry on 2/12/10

Medical science is NOT from God it is from Satan
---Rhonda on 2/11/10

Normally I agree with you Rhonda, but on this, you have not been reading your Bible.

Prov 17:22 "A joyful heart is good medicine,But a broken spirit dries up the bones"

Jer 8:22 "Is there no balm in Gilead?Is there no physician there? Why then has not the health of the daughter of my people been restored?"

Matt 9:12 "But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick."

Col 4:14 "Luke, the beloved physician, sends you his greetings, and also Demas"
---Mark_Eaton on 2/12/10

Medical science is NOT from God it is from Satan

Medicine developed by pagans - people who lacked faith

majority lack faith - why many in religious christianity SELL Medical Science as "good"

God did not create man to PLAY GOD but those who deny him or lack faith look to MAN to prolong their life

Medical Science plays god ...they do so with their false hope of medicine that will heal one issue YET cause a host of other issues - some even life threatening ...Medical Science will tell any lie to keep their human subjects coming back for more

Medicine is also AGAINST natural healing and natural herbs which are FROM God

Ask yourself WHY you would donate your TEMPLE or its parts to the Devil
---Rhonda on 2/11/10

James-- Sorry to be so stubborn, but as a health care professional for almost 30 years I cannot pass on this.

The notion that you or your love one has a 10%-20% chance of surviving even after the declaration of death. is false.
Since the criteria for donating organs is brain death, that is impossible. (declaration based on heart and respiratory signs is rarely mistaken, but it's possible)

If this "industry" is notorious for what you say. I ask, according to whom? The choice to donate or not, is a personal one. The medical personnel involved with the dying have nothing to lose or gain either way.

The moral or religious implications are also personal matters between individuals and their clergy.
---Donna66 on 2/11/10

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Sorry Donna66, I didn't mean to be so harsh.

But this industry is notorious for misrepresenting the facts and outright manipulation.

Someone in my family, may be a recipient of one of these organs and I will forever be thankful. A beautiful precious gift!

But these organizations do NOT give people the full picture, so people can make a knowledgable decision. Not one based on emotions and filtered facts.

In their brochures they list every denomination and its opinions on organ donation. The truth is they only took those interviews that agreed with their cause. Not opposing viewpoints. They NEVER tell you that you or your love one had a 10%-20% chance of surviving even after the declaration of death. Very frightening!
---James on 2/10/10

James... YES! let everybody check the FACTS about organ donation. Look at respected medical sources for your answers.
James,I don't want to accuse you of telling an untruth, but IF you actually viewed any part of organ must have somehow misinterpreted what you saw.

Forgive my use of the term "organ harvesting". It's a convenient term but could have a false connotation.
A friend of mine, whose husband is alive because of a donated liver, always starts her e-mails with this saying and I like it
(theological accuracy aside)
Don't take your organs and tissues to Heaven........... Heaven knows we need them here!
---Donna66 on 2/10/10

larry --- Larry, I agree with everything you say. It should be a non-issue. I just HAD to respond to JIM and his "warning".
---Donna66 on 2/10/10

Wow, thanks Donna I learned a ton.

Riddle me this, since God has no use for these bodies after death I wonder if we are getting all worked up over nothing. Why argue over how or how quickly we return to dust?

Our new angelic celestial bodies are waiting for us, so why do we hold onto something so imperfect of no use or heavenly value after death?

Beyond the emotional horror of imagining the disection of a loved one am I missing something?
---larry on 2/10/10

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DONNA66, It is obvious you are for organ harvesting and present a very dangerous and false imagine of what really occurs.



It is very scary what is actually happening in this arena.
---JAMES on 2/9/10

Physiologically the brain is the same as any organ. When people die, the brain dies. This is true for Christians and non-Christians alike.

Now, the SOUL and/or SPIRIT are something else entirely. Apparently these have no physical substance. No one has been able to locate them within in the body. As I understand it, these are what live forever.

Interestingly, however,some research has shown that the human brain loses weight after death occurs.
---Donna66 on 2/7/10

Just some clarification from my last post:

When I say "brain death must be established", I mean that it must be proved (by EEG) to already have taken place.
---Donna66 on 2/6/10

If the person is lost I see no problem with it. Mabe someone can figure out and understand how Satan can destroy the mind and the body here on this earth!
---catherine on 2/6/10

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Pastor Jim-- The reason no medical person will tell you what you've heard, is because NONE OF IT IS TRUE.
All these assumptions fit in the category of "urban myth". After more than 25 yrs in the hospital, I can tell you:

1. Organs are ONLY removed from someone in whom BRAIN DEATH has been well established.. A person with brain death can never survive because, off of life support, their brain will not stimulate breathing, heart beat or any other bodily function.

2. A Doctor is never "pressured" to harvest organs. He has no authority to decide if organs can legally be removed for transplant. He may not even know if the person is an organ donor.) As explained above, it is NEVER done prematurely.
---Donna66 on 2/5/10

part II Organ transplant

3. The coroner is a county officer. He will NOT be at the patients bedside (probably not even in the hospital). As explained earlier, organs are not removed "within seconds" following death.
The body is on life support..BRAIN DEATH must be established, an exacting process.

4. There are ONLY TWO people with legal authority to surrender the organs. They are the next of kin or the patient himself in a written directive written before his death.. What any doctor might or might not want is immaterial. Donors and organ recipients are paired by tissue compatability. Age is not a factor, except the older person's organs may be unfit.
---Donna66 on 2/5/10


What they do NOT tell you about organ donations is that in about 10-20% of the cases the person is still alive and could have survive!

Many times the pressure is on the doctor to declare you dead. There are times when this is done prematurely.

Remember the Coroner is on one side of the table to remove the organ/s. Ready to do this within seconds of the declaration of death.
And the pressure is one, especially if you are older and have other diseases and some one younger or healthier is waiting for your organ(i.e Heart/Liver).

No second chance or second opinion. Once he says the word, your organs are remove instantaneously!!!

There are also Ethical Christian issues to consider.
---PASTOR_JIM on 2/5/10

Yes, jody you are correct. Probably no one would donate a loved one's organs if, as a result, they lost posession of that persons remains.

The only time donating a body to medicine benefits the family is IF they absolutely cannot afford a casket or buriel. They can be assured these will be taken care of.
Any other kind of remuneration would be is selling body parts. Usually, the family takes the remains for what ever procedure/ceremony they desire.

The return for either of these types of donations is strictly emotional or spiritual. Both are donations of incalcuable value!
---Donna66 on 2/4/10

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Someone told me that even when you donate organs, when they have what they want out of you, it remains incumbent upon the family to dispose of whatever is left of the body. If that is true, then you aren't saving any money by donating your body to science. Does anyone know if that is true?
---jody on 2/4/10

Here we are dealing with centuries of tradition. The body of the deceased belongs to the family and it has ever been so.

But medical science has a tremendous on-going need for donated bodies (mostly for instruction of medical students). Students are taught that the deceased must always be treated with care and respect.

Bodies given for medical purposes are returned to the family, who may then have the body buried or cremated with appropriate ceremony. As I understand it, if there is no family or the family is without funds, the remains may be buried in a casket in a cemetery that is public property.
---Donna66 on 2/3/10

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it, in fact, I think it's admirable. If your body, which you're no longer using anyway, can help someone else down the line, great! :)
---Mary on 2/3/10

I understand that Joesph's own family took care of his body. They would not have left his body in the hands of people who were not God's obedient people. But we have people who are having strangers take care of their bodies, for money. Jesus had ones who knew Him take care of His body. Ladies who loved Him came to personally handle His dead body, I understand, and care for it, at the grave. And now this world is making it more and more expensive to take care of a dead body, and people are letting this world's money controlling control what they do? Can we organize for Christians to have a place to be buried, together, in land we own? I mean low cost, burying us right next to each other, since we are Family?
---Bill_bila5659 on 2/3/10

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When I am ask this question I always remember that Joseph told the Jewish people to take his boness back to Israel. Wherein lies the significance I do not know but I'm also asked this question about disposing of one's body in this manner so it apparently is on many people's minds.
---mima on 2/3/10

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