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Repentance For Salvation

To become saved or born again, you MUST accept Jesus as Lord (boss) and repent (confess and turn from sins). Those that believe that repentance is not part of salvation are NOT lined up with the Bible and are NOT saved - comments?

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 ---Leslie on 3/1/10
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MarkV your quote from 1st Cor 4, Paul was rebuking carnal baby Christians fighting and bickering about Paul and Apollos. Some were saying Im with Paul, no Im with Apollos.and Paul is rebuking them stating that Christ is not divided. Paul and Apollos each having gifts differing from one another yet the same truth in the same Body only showed how immature these CHRISTIANS were. NO WHERE in that verse is anything even remotely suggested it has to do with ELECTING certain people for salvation.

MarkV when you try so hard to twist scripture you lose all credibility.
---kathr4453 on 3/5/10

No. Scripturally you cannot prove it. Take John 3:3-5 for instance...Jesus didn't say you must repent to get born-again.
Another example is Romans 10:9-10...repentance isn't mentioned there either.
---Rickey on 3/5/10

The Bible is all about Repentance and repentance is a spirit that is given to a person by God.

The process of Repentance is as follows: you have to acknowledge your sins, confess your sins silently/publicly, ask God for forgiveness and finally stay away from anything that can make you sin against God.

Remember that as we are in these mortal bodies, temptations will come our way and we have to ask God for Holy Spirit to help us resist satan and his works on a daily basis.

Anyone that believes that repentance is not part of salvation does not have The Spirit of the Truth. These people are false teacher, prophets and antichrist.
---Esther on 3/5/10

The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him, and he cannot know them, because they are spiritially judged"
"Yea, we ourselves had the sentence of death within ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God who raiseth the dead"
"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses made us Alive together with Christ (for by grace you have been saved and raised us up together" Because of God "Ye were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world."
---MarkV. on 3/5/10

Is there any record of any of the disciples "repenting?"
---Rod4Him on 3/5/10

I would say Peter.
He denied Christ 3 times. Jesus even told him he would do it. Can you imagine the pain in his heart?
I mean WOW.
Jesus said he would deny us in front of his father if we denied him.
I believe Paul too.
The Damascus experience.
Christ appeared to him and BAMB! Paul changed his mind and by his mind being changed, his actions changed.
I would say we are definitely on the same page, Rod!
---miche3754 on 3/5/10

"Who maketh thee to differ? And what hast thou that thou did not receive?" He replies that it is God who has put the difference between men, especially between the redeemed and the lost. If any person believes, it is because God has quickened him, and if any person fails to believe, it is because God has withheld that grace which He was under no obligation to bestow. ---MarkV. on 3/5/10

MarkV, WHY do you take scripture dealing with Christian conduct and orderly behavior in the church, concerning spiritual gifts and mis-apply? You just grab anything out of context throw it against a wall and hope it sticks. Maybe most don't know their scriptures. THIS is why you don't like me...because I call you on it all teh time!
---kathr4453 on 3/5/10

miche, I agree with you 100%. Repentance really cannot be separated from believing/following Christ.

If one follows Christ, there will be repentance, not only changing from following one's own way/belief-system to believing in Christ. There will also be a change of life style. I am a little hesitant using the term lifesyle, because after one is saved, God continually reveals one's "sins," sanctification, which needs confessed, saying the same thing God says about it.

To the women at the well, "go and sin no more."

To the disciples, "Come, follow me."

Is there any record of any of the disciples "repenting?"
---Rod4Him on 3/5/10


The ones who don't believe, God gives them over to a reprobate mind.
He doesn't withhold his Spirit from anyone who repents(changes their mind).

Rod4him, yes, I believe repentance has several meanings especially to change ones mind.
It stands to reason that if we believe, we will follow after the footsteps of Christ, right?
Which means our minds will change toward God, and we will no longer act, look associate with the world.
Repentance is required. You have to change your mind about God.
To change ones mind IS to also change ones actions.
---miche3754 on 3/5/10

Division among those that proclaim the name of Christ has been common.

1 Cor. 11:18-19 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

As during the times of the Apostles those that create the most divisions among Christians today are the Neo Judaizers - the slave children of Hagar (Mt. Sinai) who attempt to Judaize the Christian faith.

Gal. 4:29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.
---Lee1538 on 3/5/10

All those who say Lord Lord, and have not the Spirit of God are not saved at all. For the Spirit witnessess to our spirit that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God. And witnessess to our spirit that we are children of God.

"Who maketh thee to differ? And what hast thou that thou did not receive?" He replies that it is God who has put the difference between men, especially between the redeemed and the lost. If any person believes, it is because God has quickened him, and if any person fails to believe, it is because God has withheld that grace which He was under no obligation to bestow. Stickly speaking, there is no such thing as a "self-made" man.
---MarkV. on 3/5/10

miche, //Matthew 21:32
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.//

This verse you quoted confirms my thesis. Notice it says, "they did believe, but you didn't believe. Yes, it goes on to say, "You did not repent and believe him." One needs to repent of unbelief.

Anyway, we could go round and round which verse trumps which verse, it's an endless cycle, blessings.
---Rod4Him on 3/5/10

Worth repeating:
Friendly blocker, I like what you have to say. You laid it down on the line without having to get into any arguments. He is God, He is Omniscience knowing all, Omnipotent, able to do whatsoever He desires when He desires and in control of all things, not only able to see all actions of humans, but to direct them to the order of His plan, animals, the heavens and the earth. Throughout the Bible the laws of nature, the course of history, the varying fortunes of individuals, are all attributed to God's providential control. All things from the heavens and the earth, from the Seraphim down to the tiny atom, are ordered by His never-failing providence
---MarkV. on 3/5/10

No one can believe or say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit. In order for the person to say Lord come into my life, He has to have a new heart for Christ,
---MarkV. on 3/4/10

MarkV, In order for someone to say Lord come into my heart, one does not have to have the New Heart first. It's the very life of Christ in you that gives you the New Heart. If you ALREADY have the New heart, then you don't need Jesus to give you one!

What exactly do you think the New Heart is without Christ? MarkV, one needs to be JUSTIFIED by His Blood first before Jesus can come into your heart.

Justification is not the New Birth, or the New heart, but that which GOD has declared righteous based SOLELY on the finished work of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 3/5/10

I have a few friends like that too.
I have one that believes since she has tattoos, and piercings that God won't accept her!

And some people who call themselves Christians have actually told her this!
I keep her lifted up in prayer because she knows she needs the Lord, but man's doctrine has put a stumbling block in front of her so that she believes false things.
The work of the enemy at his best. I see it all the time.
She doesn't realize God is right there reaching out to her.
---miche3754 on 3/5/10


Jesus says to REPENT and believe.
Matthew 21:32
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him
Mark 1:15
"The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news
Acts 19:4
Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.
---miche3754 on 3/5/10

mima, I have a friend who KNOWS Jesus is Lord and GOD. Yet she is not saved. She knows the Gospel too. She just believes because she is living in sin that she cannot be forgiven.

Those who deny the Deity of Christ cannot say Jesus is Lord God Almighty. These are actually cursing Jesus.

Those like Paul tells us in Galatians who bring ANOTHER Gospel are accursed.

Many believe Jesus IS the Lord too, however refuse to surrender to His Lordship.

Many will say Lord Lord, but Jesus will say I Never KNEW You, only those who do the WILL of My Father (are actually the Faithful and true!)
---kathr4453 on 3/5/10

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See Luke 1:14_17. It was to John's father that the angel said, "and he must not drink wine or strong drink". See Proverbs 31, a godly mother's lesson. Read Jeremiah 35 and see God's pleasure with the sons of Jonadab the son of Rechab. Man is capable to obey and to turn their hearts from iniquity, given of course that a seed had been planted in his heart...
That is how John was able to, Luke 1: 17 "... go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared."
---Nana on 3/4/10

Leslie, where is the Biblical teaching that one has to repent of "known" sins. I assume that is a logical deduction, but not necessily Biblical. introducing one to Christ, one would need to teach the 10 commandments first and see if the person is convicted, then tell them to repent right now, and then believe and follow Christ.

BTW, many people follow the 10 commandments, or believe they do. Maybe it's the company I keep, but I see few associates violating the 10 commandmants. Ok, maybe they don't go to church on Saturday, but where does the 10 say one does? Remember, there was a person Jesus talked to who kept the 10, what did Jesus say, "Come follow me."
---Rod4Him on 3/4/10

No one can believe or say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit.
---MarkV. on 3/4/10

Again MarkV, please show us in the OT where those with the Holy Spirit believed or said Jesus is Lord.

Now you are the one insisting on this, so please back it up with God's Word.
---kathr4453 on 3/4/10

This statement by MarkV
"No one can believe or say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit." Is very true. Sometimes while out witnessing people will refuse to say that Jesus is Lord. No amount of talking to them(I've seen them offered money) they still will not say Jesus is Lord. I say, Oh I could say it if I wanted too but in actuality I do not believe that they can. I believe they are prevented from doing so by the Holy Spirit himself.
---mima on 3/4/10

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MarkV, to believe in one's heart that Jesus died and rose again is to acknowledge Jesus is Lord. Romans 10:9 & 10. Those verses say nothing about having to say Jesus is Lord.

But to believe He died and rose again is KNOWING He is.

Paul was utterly shocked when Jesus knocked him off his horse. He said who is it Lord? Jesus said I am Jesus whom you persecute. 3 days later Paul received the Holy Spirit.

The Jews did not believe JESUS was the Messiah, yet the woman at the well did! No mention of her being born again first.
---kathr4453 on 3/4/10

To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost !!! 1 Cor.12:3

Believing God is a Choice which He provides(Life & Death), and it's His Drawing Word that is TELLING us to Choose Life. Whosoever has ears to Hear THIS(Rom.10:17), Chooses Life through repentance by Faith b/c their Heart Hears God saying Choose Life.

The Choice of Life in Christ is foolishness unto the heart of the natural man who's unable to Hear the Spiritually Discerned Word of God saying "Choose Life". 1Cor.2:12-14
---Shawn.M.T on 3/4/10

No one can believe or say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit. In order for the person to say Lord come into my life, He has to have a new heart for Christ, Faith to believe, and a contrite heart given to him by the Holy Spirit when he was convicted. Otherwise he will never commit his life to Christ. No one who is lost has a convicted heart until the Holy Spirit convicts him.
If you came to Christ without having faith first then you are not saved at all. Your commitment was false, and no wonder many think they are going to heaven when they are just heading in the same direction they were before.
---MarkV. on 3/4/10

Rod4Him & Kathr4453 - 1st Rod4Him - Repent means to confess and turn away from sins. The sins you repent from are known sins. How to know what sin is, use the 10 Commandments to show you - by using this, you will see what sins you have committed. 2nd Kathr4453 - You are CORRECT. This is why we need Jesus as well. Christ + Repentance = TRUE SALVATION.
---Leslie on 3/4/10

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They who are saints cannot enter the kingdom of God without been born of the Spirit. They looked forward to the coming of the Messiah in whom they believed. The ministry of the Holy Spirit was different in the Old Testament then in the New. In the New He was going to indwell all believers, ... not born of the Spirit. With no exception. If they were not born of the Spirit they would never be able to enter, otherwise Jesus was wrong in His message to Nicodemus........
---MarkV. on 3/4/10

I agree but we don't become "born again" until we believe Christ. We have to believe and repent of sin BEFORE the Holy Spirit indwells us, Markv.
---miche3754 on 3/4/10

miche, the only people in the OT who had the Holy Spirit ON THEM were KINGS and Prophets.

MarkV, you need to read Hebrews 6. It states even today many are drawn, and have even tasted of the good things to come HOWEVER never says Indwelt, and warns that those who have had the Holy Spirit draw and turn away.

No one Born Again can lose the indwelling Holy Spirit that brings us to the cross crucifying our flesh.

Now you must decide, either one can LOSE their salvation or the Holy Spirit draws and one can resist!

OT Saints when they died did not enter the Kingdom...they went to Abraham's Bosom UNTIL Christ died and rose again.

Abraham's Bosom was/ not the Kingdom of God!!! The Kingdom is WITHIN YOU!!!
---kathr4453 on 3/4/10

---miche3754 you are correct Saul had the Holy Spirit with him but not in him. King David when the anointing oil was poured on him as a boy immediately had the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit from that moment on but he did not have the Holy Spirit indwelling him which is what you and I and all believers have since the Lord Jesus Christ returned to his father.
---mima on 3/4/10

Lee, when I said that Old Testament saints were indwelled by the Spirit, there were a few that were. They who are saints cannot enter the kingdom of God without been born of the Spirit. They looked forward to the coming of the Messiah in whom they believed. The ministry of the Holy Spirit was different in the Old Testament then in the New. In the New He was going to indwell all believers, whether from the past and all future saints since no one can enter heaven not born of the Spirit. With no exception. If they were not born of the Spirit they would never be able to enter, otherwise Jesus was wrong in His message to Nicodemus. Or if they are not born of the Spirit they could enter spiritually dead. For they have to be alive to Christ.
---MarkV. on 3/4/10

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Lee, are you sure? Can you please give scripture showing where the HS was IN Saul?

My understanding is that the Holy Spirit was upon him, not inside him.
Same with all the other OT believers.
The Holy Spirit could not be inside someone until after Jesus was resurrected and seated at the Right hand of God. Didn't Jesus say that after this he will send the Holy Spirit to teach, and guide, and live in us?
Didn't Jesus tell the disciples he had to go or he could not send the Holy Spirit back?

I agree with Kath. The OT could be guided by the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit was not IN them, like he is with us in the NT.
---miche3754 on 3/4/10

A person has to have the Holy Spirit witnessing to the individual that Jesus is Lord, otherwise the individual will never say He is Lord.
Study to be approve.
---MarkV. on 3/4/10

I agree with this, but the Holy Spirit gets upon them to show them, NOT in them.
Look at Peter when the Spirit revealed Christ to him. The Holy Spirit was ON him not in him.
Repentance comes by the Holy Spirit convicting us of our fleshly sins, and we have to confess and believe Christ. The Holy Spirit doesn't live in you until AFTER you repent of your sins.
Amen Ignatius. The 2 are inseparable.
We must ADMIT we are in sin and repent of it, turn away, change our minds, BELIEVE Christ died for our sins.
---miche3754 on 3/4/10

//MarkV, you say OT saints were filled by the Holy Spirit, Born Again.

I rather doubt that the OT saints were born-again, however, some were indeed filled with the Holy Spirit even did miracles and prophesized. One being Saul, first king of Israel who was filled with the Holy Spirit, but scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit departed from Him. (1 Sam. 16:14) Samson was also filled with the Holy Spirit but that spirit departed from him when he got his haircut complements of Delilah. Judges 16.
---Lee1538 on 3/4/10

MarkV, you say OT saints were filled by the Holy Spirit, Born Again. Can you show us where in the OT where someone said JESUS Christ is LORD, proving their salvation?

Jesus was His earthly name given after His birth. So did they not put their faith the promised redeemer?

Job said I know that my redeemer liveth, but no where does Job say, My redeemers name is JESUS who is Lord.
---kathr4453 on 3/4/10

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The Israelites were chosen by God, yet God had not given them eyes to see, ears to hear or a heart to perceive to that day. Without those functions the people do not believe.
"You have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Eygpt, to Pharoah and to all his servants and to all his land. The great trials which your eyes have seen, the signs, and those great wonders. Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day"In spite of all they experienced Israel was spiritually blind to the significance of what the Lord had done for them, lacking spiritual understanding, even Mose speaking. The spiritual blindness continues to the present day (Romans 11:8).
---Mark_V on 3/4/10

" one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" A person has to have the Holy Spirit witnessing to the individual that Jesus is Lord, otherwise the individual will never say He is Lord.
----MarkV. on 3/4/10

MarkV, your argument is lame. Many will say LORD LORD and Jesus will say I never knew you.

That verse is concerning speaking in tongues and that no one speaking in an unknown tongue by the power of the Holy Spirit can curse God at the same time.

And nowhere does it say we must say Jesus is LORD before we can be saved. However one must believe Jesus is the Christ the Messiah promised in Genesis 3:15.

There are many things we can do by the Power of the Holy Spirit after we are saved.
---kathr4453 on 3/4/10

Ignatius, your statment of faith is so true. Reading the first part of what you said,

""0 Lord, Heavenly King, Comforter, Spirit of Truth, show compassion and have mercy on me Thy sinful servant"

First it shows that the servant is a believer since he is trusting in the Lord to have mercy on him. Second, he is coming with a contrite heart. Third, he is repenting and acknowledging his sins before the Lord, sins he remembers and those he doesn't but knows he has. Yes, repentance and salvation are inseparable. Blessings Ignatius, and thank you for your quote from your statement of faith.
---MarkV. on 3/4/10

miche3754, A-men. Many today like Mark wrongly think that they can live in sin and still be saved, but that lie is not the truth nor reality: for as criminals are rightly thrown into prison, so too the unrepentant sinners do not inherit salvation but are rightly thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone.
---Eloy on 3/4/10

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"......what happens if one can't remember or even know what they all are? " (Rod4him)

That is the reasons why us Eastern Orthodox Christians have this in one of our personal evening prayers:

"0 Lord, Heavenly King, Comforter, Spirit of Truth, show compassion and have mercy on me Thy sinful servant, and loose me from mine unworthiness, and forgive all wherein I have sinned against Thee today as a man, and not only as a man, but even worse than a beast, my sins voluntary and involuntary, known and unknown, whether from youth, and from evil suggestion, or whether from brazenness and despondency [.....]".

Repentance and Salvation are inseparable.

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 3/4/10

The command is obey, obey is works. Works saves no one. We are saved by Grace through faith. Grace functions totally apart from any human merit or works. For it's written,
"For it is God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ"
Lost are in darkness and if God does not command light to shine, they remain in darkness. No knowledge whatsoever of Christ.
" one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" A person has to have the Holy Spirit witnessing to the individual that Jesus is Lord, otherwise the individual will never say He is Lord.
Study to be approve.
---MarkV. on 3/4/10

Thats the thing, Rod. We might not remember all of our sins but God does.
To repent means 2 things.
To change ones mind AND to change ones actions.
That is why Jesus said "repent and believe".
Changing your mind happens as soon as you ask Christ to be your savior, ask for forgiveness of your sins. When you do, God erases them all, even the ones we can't remember.
Then when the Holy ghost comes to live in us and teach us all things of God, HE changes our actions.
Remember that the word of God tells us to change our actions by the renewing of our minds daily. Each day we are on this walk, God is changing our minds by HIS word and our actions change because of God. We become peculiar, set apart.

---miche3754 on 3/4/10

Leslie, one certainly must acknowledge they are a sinner in need of forgiveness. One must also acknowledge they cant forgive themselves to receive Eternal life, that ONLY God can forgive. If you can actually turn from your sin BEFORE salvation, then you really dont need the POWER of Christ in you to DELIVER you from its power over you.
Isnt that what the Gospel is all about. Isnt that why Jesus died, to take our sin upon Him, to take our punishment for sin, and to give us a NEW LIFE in Him, and the gift of the Holy Spirit so we actually CAN by His power die to sin. SIN never dies, we die to sin! You CANT do that without Christ in you.
---kathr4453 on 3/4/10

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Lesie, if repentence from sin is a prerequisite for salvation, which sins are you referring to, and what happens if one can't remember or even know what they all are? What happens if a person gets saved at 70 years of age, are they to remember and confess all their sins? What happens if a person forgets one? BTW, the human brain cannot remember everything it has experienced.
What does repent mean?
---Rod4Him on 3/3/10

Those that do not believe that salvation is through Jesus Christ and repentance, or that repentance means to change ones mind and not confess or turn from sin - you are NOT lined up with the Bible, and are NOT saved and are going to Hell. Repent (confess, and turn from your sins) and make Jesus Christ Lord (boss) over your life before it's too late. I care about you, and do not want to see you burn in Hell for eternity.
---Leslie on 3/3/10

Miche, praise God that you too KNOW one must be washed in the blood and made acceptable before any INDWELLING of God's Spirit can become ONE with you.

It's like MarkV saying that the union of marriage is consummated FIRST without the bride being involved receiving her espoused. If that's how he sees it...would not that be considered rape? Kind of like the cave man attitude,where a man just knocks a woman over the head, drags her by the hair into his cave and forces himself MAKING her his bride whether she likes it or not. Our UNION with Christ certainly involves us receiving HIM.
---kathr4453 on 3/3/10

NOW MarkV, one must be Justtified FIRST before any Holy Spirit can enter you. A Holy God cannot have any personal union with man apart from FIRST being justified. Therefore you cannot be Born again first SO THAT you can believe Jesus died on a cross for the sin of the world.

You must be Justified first believing Jesus died PERSONALLY for YOUR sin, and then the Spirit of the Risen Christ quickens your dead mortal flesh and makes you ALIVE together with HIM. This is the BY GRACE you have been saved. Read ALL of Eph 2!

OT Saints were saved by faith, but NOT GRACE.

How could OT Saints be made alive together with Him, when He hadn't even gone to the cross.
---kathr4453 on 3/3/10

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See kath, you did it again!!God bless you!!!
Amen sis.
Die to self everyday, so Christ lives in you everyday!
And what happens to us if we are truly doing this?
We don't do the things of the world, we don't look like them or act like them, we become set apart and peculiar. People think we are strange.
Jesus transforming and conforming us to his image daily!
Isn't that just amazing!
---miche3754 on 3/3/10

Acts 13:38-40
38Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Justified by FAITH, not the Law. You are JUSTIFIED when you believe in Jesus Christ FOR the forgiveness of sin.

Justified freely is where God imputes to you the Righteousness of Jesus.

by His Grace: IS Jesus death and resurrection life.

NOW Grace begins HIS work in you, as we carrying about in our bodied the dying of Jesus so that the life of Jesus is manifest.
---kathr4453 on 3/3/10

I would also like to point out that we can't even think of achieving the things Jesus tells us in Matt. chapters 5,6,7 without doing what Kath posted Romans 6!
We have to die to self!!
Not to mention if we have not died to self, then we have not turned away from sin.
And I am not talking about the occasional slip and fall either. I am talking about blatant sin.

By the way Kath I really enjoyed your last post, it was great!!
---miche3754 on 3/3/10

Sorry Markv, but Eloy is right.
Ezekiel 18:30 reads "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin." (Repent is a translation of the Hebrew word "shuwb" which means "to turn back", a similar concept to "change your mind")

Matthew 4:17, we read that "...Jesus began to preach and to say, 'Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'" and, in chapters 5, 6 and 7, He explains in detail what He is saying. He points out that He is reemphasizing the high standards of righteousness that God requires.

John 3:18-21, Jesus clearly states that it is not possible to believe in Him unless you first of all repent.
Be believers AND doers of God's word.
---miche3754 on 3/3/10

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We receive Jesus Christ for salvation. When we do this we receive to ourselves HIS DEATH that deals with SIN!!! I NEED Christ's death in me to deal with sin. There is NO POWER in repentance or confession!!!

Romans 6,

6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more, death hath no more dominion over him.

10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
---kathr4453 on 3/3/10

Kathr4453 and Jody - 1st Kathr4453 You have misinterpreted scripture. Read Ephesians 2:14-16 - this refers to Jew and Gentile becomming one. Leslie.

No Leslie, no longer Jew or Gentile...but ONE NEW MAN. Nothing about a Gentile becoming a Jew. I gave several scriptures to back up. The New Man is the Church, the Body of Christ, ALL things become NEW. We are a NEW CREATION In Christ. God is not a Jew Leslie. Jesus is God.
---kathr4453 on 3/3/10

There is no scripture found that says what Eloy said, it is his theory because of his teachings of good works for salvation, Here is what he said,
the command is obey, and I will give you grace"
The bible states,
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His Grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"
Grace is the unmerited favor of God, no one deserves it. People come to believe in the gospel because of Grace, not because of some condition.
"...and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through Grace"

"But if by Grace, then it is no longer by works, otherwise Grace is no longer Grace"
---MarkV. on 3/3/10

A-men Leslie. Grace is conditional, not unconditional. Grace is merited, not unmerited: the command is obey, and I will give you grace, the command is not disobey, and I will give you grace: no, by no means, but the command is disobey, and you will receive my wrath. God commands man to be saved, thus it must be possible for man to do something in order to be saved. So what is that that man must do to be saved? God's Word tells us in both Testaments what we must do, namely, Repent (Please Read- Ezekiel 18:30-32). "Repent you all therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out." Acts 3:19. Therefore, there is no salvation without man's participation by first repenting.
---Eloy on 3/2/10

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What ---jody on 3/2/10 has written is very correct!!!
---mima on 3/2/10

Kathr4453 and Jody - 1st Kathr4453 You have misinterpreted scripture. Read Ephesians 2:14-16 - this refers to Jew and Gentile becomming one. Therefore since Jesus did not come to establish a new religion, and the word "Christian" is ONLY found 3 times in the Bible, the one new man is ALL in Christ are now Jewish. 2nd Jody - You are WRONG, repentance does NOT mean to change ones mind, but to confess and turn away from sin. You can change your mind that sin is now bad and God is good, but still have your sin in you and not covered by the blood, and are still going to Hell. Sin is NOT allowed in Heaven, and the ONLY way to have it erased is by the blood of Jesus, which ONLY comes through confession and turning away from it.
---Leslie on 3/2/10

Repentance means to change ones mind. It was preached in Acts and elsewhere to cause Jews (and by Paul,Gentiles)to change their minds in favor of faith in Jesus rather than rejecting Him. To turn away from"an evil heart of unbelief". Faith in Jesus Christ includes the knowledge that "all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God" thus the need for a saviour. When the mind is changed towards the light, the behavior follows and thereby also changed. While we all struggle, when we accept Jesus and the indwelling of His Spirit, we can no longer intentionally live a life of sin. This is all a gift from God who draws us.
---jody on 3/2/10

Leslie, please explain these verses.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek(Greek also meaning such thing as a Jewish Greek), there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.( after the flesh Jewish that is)
---kathr4453 on 3/2/10

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Markv, I am surprised in a good way!!
I really enjoyed that last post of yours.
The only thing I would say different is that the Holy Spirit witnesses to US in our flesh and convicts our flesh of its sin and need for God.
He doesn't witness to our Spirit until we repent of the sin we have been convicted of. Once we believe and repent of our sin, the Holy Spirit starts to change us and witness to our spirit.
Remember that one has to happen before the other does.
Conviction of the sins in our flesh, THEN witness to our spirit and teach us things of God.
We have to repent and believe first.
---miche3754 on 3/2/10

By the way Shawn,
I just want to say that is some awesome teaching, brother. I hope and Pray Markv listens to the great truth you have told instead of believing that stuff he believes.
---miche3754 on 3/2/10

-- Friendly Blogger :

God having Predestinated us unto the adoption of Children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according as He hath Chosen us in Him "Before The Foundation Of The World, that we should be Holy and without blame before Him in Love : according to the Good Pleasure of His Will. Eph.1:3-5

Brother, The receiving of Christ through repentance is a Predestinated precondition for Salvation to occur. This of course being the Meat of God's Word, and when sharing it make sure it is rightly divided, b/c none come unto the Father but through Christ, and none come into Christ but through the repentance that leads to being "Dead to sin" and no longer "Dead in sin" !!! 1 Peter 2:23-25 ~ Eph.2:5-6
---ShawnM.T. on 3/2/10

-- Alan of UK :

Whom he did Predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also Justified: and whom He Justified, them he also Glorified. Rom.8:30

Brother, Those who have not ears to Hear, will receive not these things of the Spirit of God, for they appear only as foolishness unto them b/c they are Spiritually Discerned, comparing spiritual things with spiritual : not secular things with secular, as you have done by accepting the World's view of God's Judgment & Higher Ways as being compared with man's court of law.

Alan, The Foreknowledge of God's Higher Thoughts that led to His Predestinated Creation are according to His Good Pleasure and after the Counsel of His Own Will. Eph.1:5,11
---ShawnM.T. on 3/2/10

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Mima and Friendly Blogger - You both are WRONG. 1st Mima - Look up the word repentance and you will see it does NOT mean to change your mind, but to confess and turn away from sin. If you do not repent by confessing and turning from sin - sin is still there and you are NOT saved and are going to Hell still. 2nd Friendly Blogger - Read your Bible, salvation is for EVERYONE, NOT just a selet few (John 3:16 - whosoever), (2 Peter 3:9 - everyone).
---Leslie on 3/2/10

Mima - How did you know I'm Jewish? I have been saved most of my life, NOT just recent. Also, did you know that EVERYONE (including yourself) that is in Christ is Jewish? Jesus was a Jew, so when we accept Christ, we take on ALL He is (including His Jewishness). Also, when we accept Christ, we are grafted into the Jewish bloodline - no longer Gentile (lost sinner), but now Messianic Jew (found in Christ). If you are calling yourself a Gentile Christian, you are saying you are still lost, since that is what it means. I pray that you get saved before it is too late.
---Leslie on 3/2/10

I believe free-will repentance is part of salvation - God knows ahead of time but does not force it. My own current confusion is: Does God approve if, after my sin is confessed and forgiven and "remembered by Him no more" I continue to remember my sin, and that is the reason I do good now?
---Geraldine on 3/2/10

Sorry Leslie, you cannot know Jesus as Lord without the Holy Spirit 1 Cor. 12:3. You have to have the Holy Spirit to know Him as Lord. Your way its not possible, since you are saying you can know Him without the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit witnessess to our spirit that Jesus is Lord. Once you know Him you confess Him as Lord, and once you confess Him, you are forgiven, given a new life in Christ, and salvation from the wrath of God. And one day you will be glorified, and will get a new body prepared for eternity. You have to be called as Jesus called Lazurus from the dead. He came to life and obeyed Jesus.
John 6:44, 1 Cor. 12:3.
---MarkV. on 3/2/10

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Leslie, You miss the point entirely, God all ready knows who will accept him billions of year ago before creation began. Salvation is only offered to those who love God. And there is absolutely nothing an individual can do to change one status because God know every choice you will make and the alternative you will choose.

So God has already chosen every one that will ever be in his family. Some individuals just realize it sooner then others and those are the more effective people in accomplishing Gods desires.

So some people are enjoying their life time supply of E tickets while your still stuck in traffic trying to read a map in a 1953 Studebaker not knowing which way to turn on the highway of life.
---Friendly_Blogger on 3/1/10

Friendly Blogger .... So what does "predetermined" mean?

Does it mean "decided" or "known"?

in a court of law, a result is determined by the judge ... i.e. he makes the decision.

"Predetermined" seems to me like "predestination". And that's what you original comment sounded like.
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/1/10

When you're making a quiche, does it really matter if you pour the eggs into the milk, or pour the milk into the eggs?

Don't we trust Jesus enough to believe that He will help those truly looking for Him to get all the right ingredients mixed together?
---Cluny on 3/1/10

alan8566_of_uk, for knowledge is different from Predestination. Predistination is that God has prechosed who is going to be in his family and who isn't before you were ever born.

Free Will is that People are free to make choices with out Godly interferance prior to their realization that God has a plan for their life.

For Knowledge is that God knows what actions we would take billions of years before we were ever born and only offers Grace to those individuals he choses and reject the others.

God can do thing to motivate you to take an action Johah is a good example but also remember Johah is not an example of salvation it is an example of the mode and timing of following Gods plan for your life.
---Friendly_Blogger on 3/1/10

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Yes repentance is necessary for salvation. Not the repentance you speak of(confess and turn from sins) but the repentance that is a change of mind. Leslie you are a perfect example of this, being Jewish you once refused to accept Jesus, but you experienced repentance and that repentance was a change of mind about the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank the Lord for your repentance and salvation!!
---mima on 3/1/10

Friendly Blogger ... Is Foreknowledge the same as Predestination?

Is knowing someone will do something the same as deciding that they will do it?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/1/10

Jesus and the Apostles taught and preached repentance and told us to teach and preach it as well - therefore we MUST teach/preach this. Jesus said to repent (confess and turn from sin) or perish (burn in Hell) (Luke 13:3,5). Therefore, repentance is linked to salvation, since we will perish in Hell without Jesus as well. Jesus also said He called sinners to repentance (Matthew 9:13, Mark 2:17, Luke 5:32). Since ALL have sinned (Romans 3:23), this applies to salvation. Here are other scriptures: Matthew 4:17, Mark 1:15, Mark 6:12, Acts 2:38 (repentance (salvation) BEFORE baptism), Acts 3:19, Acts 17:30, Acts 20:21 (repentance and Jesus for salvation), Acts 26:20, Revelation 2:5,16,21,22, Revelation 3:3,19.
---Leslie on 3/1/10

Friendly Blogger - You are WAY WRONG. The Bible is clear that without acceptance of Jesus you are NOT saved and WILL go to Hell. John 14:6 (This is Jesus talking saying that NO ONE can come to God (salvation) unless they go through Him (Jesus)), John 1:12 (This is talking about accepting Jesus and ONLY then can you become a child of God (saved)), Romans 10:9 (This is the ONLY way to salvation). Based on your answer, you are NOT saved and are headed for Hell if you were to die this very instant. Repent and turn to Jesus before it's too late.
---Leslie on 3/1/10

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If one "accepts" Jesus as Lord, they must have repented (changed) of not accepting Him as Lord.

The greatest sin is to reject Jesus Christ. One needs to change (repent) their minds about Christ.

I don't know how one can "accept Jesus as Lord" and not repent (change) of things in their life. They are one in the same events.

When you ask about confessing sins, what are you talking about? This is an on going process, sanctification.
---Rod4Him on 3/1/10

Salvation comes through Jesus Christ and Repentance ONLY (Acts 4:12, Acts 20:21). Anything other than these two things together is NOT salvation and will lead you to Hell.
---Leslie on 3/1/10

Read the first chapter of Ephesians again. God has complete knowledge of all people that would ever be born and how they would respond to his invitation of Grace. So who was destined for salvation was already predetermined before they were ever born.

So to say the Accepting YAHWEH is a precondition for salvation is false, it is just a predetermined result of Gods irresistible Grace.

It is an action after the fact, not a precondition for the fact to occur.
---Friendly_Blogger on 3/1/10

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