Steveng ... What you wrote was untrue. You did not write what you meant.
I cannot take responsibility for that.
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/26/10|
alan8566_of_uk: "Steveng ... No, it is for you to do your own proof reading."
No, it is you that needs to know if what I write is true. But you have already made up your mind that I am wrong and did not search the scriptures as the inhabitants of Berea did whether those things of which Paul preached were so.
But, go ahead, and waddle in your own thoughts and not learn what scripture says.
---Steveng on 3/25/10|
I can assure the commited Christians they will recognize Jesus. The reason I say that is the Bible and an experience I had. On New Years Eve at church one year I saw a vision in which there were clouds and very light around them with a brighter light in the focus of the clouds. I saw no face or form but I knew it was Jesus. When it started I was far away but suddenly I was drawn up closer and a peace came over me which I have never felt on this earth before or since. I never saw a face during the whole experience but I knew without a doubt who it was,Jesus,for the Bible does say the Sheep know their Master's voice. Well this sheep knew her Master's peace and light. I told the church and all rejoiced.
---Darlene1 on 3/25/10|
Steveng ... No, it is for you to do your own proof reading.
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/25/10|
alan8566_of_uk: "Steveng ... Why is it worldly to take your words as you wrote them?"
Simply compare what I write to scripture.
---Steveng on 3/24/10|
Steveng ... Why is it worldly to take your words as you wrote them?
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/24/10|
alan8566_of_uk: "Steveng ... I read what you said "Christians today walk the same path as the Jews did when Christ was walking the earth - they did not recognize him" ... and assumed then that as one of those Christians you too would not recognise jesus.
But now you admit that "There are many christians who will recognize Jesus" and presumably include yuorself among them "
You are too literal and too educated in a worldly way. The bible says that the jews didn't recognized Jesus, but weren't there a few that did?
---Steveng on 3/23/10|
Steveng ... I read what you said "Christians today walk the same path as the Jews did when Christ was walking the earth - they did not recognize him" ... and assumed then that as one of those Christians you too would not recognise jesus.
But now you admit that "There are many christians who will recognize Jesus" and presumably include yuorself among them
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/23/10|
Shawn T. no problem, I had read your post and then went back to check mine and I saw we were saying the same thing only differently. Thank you brother for the correction. Your explanations are so well put. You do them with a humble heart too. That is what I like about your answers. I'm glad you didn't let the temptations against you from others get to you. You do is better then me, Greater is He that is in you then he who is in the world.
---MarkV. on 3/23/10|
-- MarkV :
Brother, I think we might be saying the same thing, now that I reread your post !!
I might have been mistaken in thinking you were sharing that Knowledge was capable of Rightly Dividing itself to grasp the Truth, when you stated "Knowledge majors on grasping the meaning of the truth. While the gift of "Wisdom", emphasizes the practical conviction and conduct that applies it."
It's why I was sharing that WITHOUT Wisdom, Knowledge cannot be Rightly Divided to Understand its Truth. If we're in 'One Accord' on that, then Sorry for the mix-up Brother : and Thanks for the add on.
Grace Unto You & Peace Be Multiplied !!
---Shawn.M.T on 3/22/10|
Shawn T, Peace brother,
I believe that is what I said at the bottom of my post.
"While the gift of Wisdom emphasizes the practical conviction and conduct that applies it"
That applies the "Word of knowledge"
Or we not saying the same thing?
---MarkV. on 3/22/10|
-- MarkV :
Shawn T, can I add ... --MarkV on 3/22/10
Brother, In the Spirit of John 21:25, God Bless !!
... but I would restate that the gift of "Wisdom" emphasizes the conviction and practical conduct that applies to grasping the Truth of God's Knowledgeable Word : b/c without Wisdom, Knowledge cannot be Rightly Divided to Understand its Truth.
It why we're to get Wisdom, b/c it's the principal thing, and in all our getting we're to get Understanding of God's Knowledgeable Word : which allows our minds to be renew & transformed through departing from the evil conforms of the world. Pro.4:7 & Job 28:28
---Shawn.M.T on 3/22/10|
Shawn T, can I add to your exposition by saying that the "Word of Knowledge" is a gift that was revelotory "God's discloser of Himself" in the first century since no new Testament had been written and something new was been exponded by Christ, but it is today the ability to understand and speak God's truth, with insight in to the mysteries of His Word, that cannot be known apart from God's revelation (Romans 16:25, Eph. 3:3, Col. 1:26, 2:2, 4:3). Knowledge majors on grasping the meaning of the truth. While the gift of "Wisdom" emphasizes the practical conviction and conduct that applies it.
---MarkV. on 3/22/10|
-- Rob4Him :
Brother, God's Word is the 'word of Knowledge'. A 'Prophet' is God's messenger, and those who Hear His Voice know if the message is from God(Act 22:6-14) b/c the Lord's sheep Know & Follow His Voice as He calls us by name !!! John 10:1-15
Set your mind on things above, seeking first the Kingdom of God & His Righteousness, and all the Knowledge of His Riches & Glory in Christ shall be added unto you : as you pray without ceasing & proceed into Rom.12:2, but don't over think these matters b/c Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? : You'll have an unction from the Holy One to know all things, if without a doubt you're to continue with us in the Lord. 1 John 2:19-20
---ShawnM.T. on 3/21/10|
The prophet's job is not only to foretell the future, but also to edify, encourage, comfort, or reprove the people. He or she is a spokesperson for God as Aaron was to Moses who was as "God" to the Pharoah. A prophet speaks forth the words and commands that he or she receives from God as moved by the Holy Spirit.
And contrary to what many christians believe, prophets surely do walk the earth today and are badly needed during these end times.
---Steveng on 3/18/10|
Was not the test of a prophet that no single prediction could ever be wrong?
Was not the penalty for false prophecies death by stoning?
Some of these televangelists would be hard pressed today to prove that every single "word of knowledge" is true. But, with millions of viewers and the game of "probability", they stack the deck in their favor. We would be hard pressed to prove them wrong even if they were. We also no longer stone people for false claims.
---obewan on 3/17/10|
alan8566_of_uk: "Presumably as a Christian, you would have the same problem ... you would not recognise Jesus if you met Him."
What do you think of a person that only reads and meditates on the bible - without polluting the mind with the plethora of authors opinions written in books, concordances, novels, christian dictionaries, and other christian reference books?
And believed in every word that is written?
And has fellowship with christians anywhere there is a christian whether at the park, in line at the grocery store, or at the local cafe?
There are many christians who will recognize Jesus.
---Steveng on 3/17/10|
Steveng ... Presumably as a Christian, you would have the same problem ... you would not recognise Jesus if you met Him.
---alan8566_of_uk on 3/16/10|
Learn the way of a prophet - both true and false prophets. Do an online KJV bible search for "prophe". Read not only the verses you find, but also in context by reading the whole chapter.
Christians today walk the same path as the Jews did when Christ was walking the earth - they did not recognize him. They will also not recognize the prophets speaking today. They will treat them the same as the prophets of old - and the same they will do unto the two prophets as written in Revelation. It's because these prophets do not conform to any of man's philosophies of their own truths.
---Steveng on 3/15/10|
I find 'Christians' spend more time judging what they do not know! Honestly brothers and sisters if Jesus gave these gifts to the church (Ephesians 4:11) Why do we treat them as though they are cancer. The unfortunate thing is most believers today are like the people of moses day - they dont want to hear directly from God so other people have to do the listening for them. It is sad but. Remember what Moses said But Moses said to him, "Are you jealous for my sake? Would that all the LORD'S people were prophets, that the LORD would put His Spirit upon them!" Num 11:29 NASB
---Brian on 3/15/10|
Rod4Him: "Again, therein lies the problem, "do I keep my eyes on Christ alone," or on some prophet or prophetess?"
Keep your eyes on the Father only. Seek him daily - and in fellowship with others.
As for prophet and prophetess, they are only messengers from God, his servants. You listen to their message only. Their message is from God. When your walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and serve him with all your heart, mind and soul, you will know if the message is truely from God.
But be forewarned that today's church is full of false prophets (and teachers). These prophets are not from God and follow their own spirit. Micah 3:11
---Steveng on 3/15/10|
People, people, people. If the word you receive is truly from God, He will confirm it some way. Through scripture, through a stranger, through a daily devotional, etc. When people say things like God loves you, etc., they are speaking a prophecy over you. Not all prophecy is some grand event. It is simply edifying a person. God always knows when we need a word of encouragement. A Word of Knowledge is just that. If you have been seeking His knowledge He will tell you if you listen for His still small voice. It may come from a prophet but not necessarily. Whether you believe it or not God still does signs and wonders and even a miracle at times. "Lets those who have ears to hear..."
---Troy on 3/14/10|
Rod4Him. I don't always know what is a word of knowledge or what may be simply leading by the Holy Spirit.
The people who give a public word of encouragement, i.e. "God loves you" aren't really giving a word of knowledge (because, as you say everyone should Know that). They may just feel that someone needs to be reminded of God's love and they feel moved to do it.
It sure beats "God told me you are to marry..or to have a child...or to start a ministry... or get a promotion etc. etc.
Then some stranger will give you a Scripture (as directed...or not.. by God) but do not elaborate on it at all. You can't argue with God's Word, but you don't know what it means to you either.
---Donna66 on 3/14/10|
Donna66, I can relate to your story. Along that line, I've had a christian friend who seldom calls, but call at an extremely appropriate encouraging time. Was that "discernment, knowledge, or something similar?" And I sometimes "feel" impressed to pray for someone or call them.
What I am trying to figure out is the "word of knowledge, or prophecy" in a personal sitting and what it is. mima gave an example, but I didn't quite get the practical benefit of the experience.
What I have saw once in a charsmatic church were people speaking out and saying things like, "God loves you, God wants you to forgive," and such. Things we should already know.
---Rod4Him on 3/14/10|
Occasionally, I've had a "word of knowledge" but I never sought it. It just came out in something I said, and immediately I knew it somehow had special importance.
For example, when writing a prayer calendar for a group, (with daily scriptures and prayer requests), I was not satisfied with what I had written for a certain day. There was nothing wrong with it...in some strange way, it just didn't seem right. Finally, eager to get the thing done, I impulsively replaced it with "pray for the safety of the president". That day turned out to be the day Pres. Reagan was shot.
I may sense there is something special about a particular statement, but I'm never certain enough to call it a "word of knowledge".
---Donna66 on 3/13/10|
In the modern church there is much confusion over the office of a prophet or prophetess. In this response i will only speak to the relevance of those ministries today according to the word of God. There 64 references to prophet in the NT and 88 references to Prophets in NT - Matt 10:41 - why would Jesus say that if they did not exist? Acts 13:5-7 A False prophet is mentioned Question Can you a false without the real? Acts 21:10 - Agubus was a prophet. Titus 1:12 one of their Prophets... Ephesians 4:11 is very clear And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers. The Bible is very clear we need to understand them.
---Brian on 3/13/10|
For clarification, I am also interested in the prophet/prophetess, but I was assuming the situation where a person has a one on one contact rather than a person one will never meet. Although, a more well known prophet/prophetess is still worth evaluating. In that case also, how do we know which to believe? They all pronounce somekind of doom and gloom. Therefore people need to send them money so they can get the message out.
---Rod4Him on 3/13/10|
Steveng, there is great truth to what you are saying, and therein lies the dilemna. How does one know whether a particular message is from God or not if it is not in scripture or consistent with scripture.
Along the same line, one person here promotes one "prophet or prophetess" and others another, but they don't agree which one is the true prophet.
When Christ spoke his messages, the disciples, and us through scripture, had to determine if His message is true or not, and then we can believe Him or reject Him.
Again, therein lies the problem, "do I keep my eyes on Christ alone," or on some prophet or prophetess?
But my original question had to do with "word of knowledge" and what that is.
---Rod4Him on 3/12/10|
Rod4Him: "Consequently, it never makes sense and I move on to other things until someone claims to have a "message" from God."
How would you know if any of these posts are from God or not? I could easily say my message to you is from God, but you would not believe me. I don't think so because my post would just be another post to you. If Jesus or the apostles or any of the prophets were on these blogs, would you believe them? Again, I don't think so because their posts would just be another post to you.
---Steveng on 3/12/10|
I may inadvertently sound harsh, but when I seek to understand this topic, I don't seem to get clear answers. Consequently, it never makes sense and I move on to other things until someone claims to have a "message" from God. Then I seek to understand with no explanation coming. ...umm
---Rod4Him on 3/12/10|
Traditionally, many Christians seek gifts and "messages" because they are not truly letting The Lord's grace (found in the gospel) be sufficient for them. We have to break this habit of "tradition" and let His grace be sufficient. The Lord's grace was not INCOMPLETE, there is nothing we need that He FORGOT to give us.
What we do need today is to stop playing the 'giftworthy game' of "I'm better than you". Being INSIDE The body of Jesus is the highest station in life (it is TRUE life, John 14:6, EVERLASTING). Being inside His body IS "heaven" (if we have the fruit of light, Ephesians 5:8), is it not? (we've been taught wrongly that everything is FUTURE).
---more_excellent_way on 3/12/10|
mina, what you relate sounds similar to what I have heard bits and pieces of. However, please explain a bit more and bear with me as I'll probably sound like I am challenging you.
Are you saying that God said, "I am not answering your prayer now, but you need to wait (put on shelf?). And the prophetess said that God said, "Ok, mima, you can get off the shelf," meaning now I'll answer you?
Was this encouraging or explaining why God didn't answer? What did this experience do for you or through you? What did this do that understanding scripture wouldn't or couldn't do?
---Rod4Him on 3/11/10|
Interesting Mima, excellent example for questions I have had about authenticity.
Most of the time those claiming to havea word of knowledge have been on television in a taped program claiming a healing or inheritance of a car dealership for someone in Chicago, etc. I've have my doubts.
---larry on 3/11/10|
more excellent way, as I read your post, it seemed to resinate with my understanding. But the more I thought about your post, it became a bit confusing. Maybe I am thinking too hard.
I relate to God speaking through His Son in these days. I can relate to resting in Christ, a sabbath rest.
But I got a bit lost from the Ezekiel passage. I see Ezekiel explaining that Christ has entered the Holy of Holies once for all, and we can now come boldly to the Throne of Grace. Everyday is a day of rest in Christ. I don't have to wait for a priest to do it on the Sabbath. I think that may be what you were saying.
But all this doesn't explain the charsmatic use of these gifts, which I didn't explain to well in the question.
---Rod4Him on 3/11/10|
In context of the whole chapter of 1 Cornithians 12, the spiritual gifts concern spiritual matters.
The "word of knowledge" is the sharing of what is already written in the bible - i.e. sharing with another person the ten commandments, the gospel of the Kingdom of God, and Jesus.
The "word of wisdom" is taking what is not written in the bible and applying what is written - i.e. King Solomon, the two mothers, and the child and how Solomon used wisdom to reveal the real mother.
---Steveng on 3/11/10|
A prophet/prophetess is a messenger of God. Contrary to what many christians believe, prophets are in todays world - and needed more than ever because many christians have detoured off the path toward the Kingdom of God. And it's up to them to bring them back unto that path. Paul (2 Corinth 11:13-15) and Peter (2 Peter 2:1-3) warned of false prophets. Also Deut. 13:1-5
How does one know if these are true prophets? By their fruits is one. When their prophesy/message glorifies God is another. Their prophesies/messages must agree with scripture. When their prophesies/messages come to pass (Deut. 18:20-22)
The last two prophets are the two prophets mentioned in Revelation.
---Steveng on 3/11/10|
Understanding HOW SOMETHING WORKS (the 'mechanics' of a situation) is WISDOM.
There used to be six working days when the inner temple was not joined to the outer (Ezekiel 46:1). Now, the living water that flowed from Christ at the cross consecrates the inner temple (us) to the outer (Jesus) so that He is our sabbath rest.
This understanding of HOW the living water works in the new covenant is WISDOM.
When we are made AWARE of new data/information, that is simple KNOWLEDGE (WE decide what to do with this KNOWLEDGE).
God makes us AWARE of all the lies and misunderstandings that we have been taught (KNOWLEDGE).
God used to speak to us through prophets, but now He speaks to us through His Son.
---more_excellent_way on 3/11/10|
Yes "The word of knowledge" is functioning today.
The first criteria of believeing a messages is from God is it must be proven true.
A prophet or prophetess is a spokesman for God. Someone who delivers a specific message.
Many times when praying by myself or with others I receive a word of knowledge. This word of knowledge is not audible but rather is a certain knows so silent message that comes to a person. For example laying on the floor praying, and receiving no answer to my prayer, I received the message that maybe God had placed me on a shelf. Later listening to a prophetess suddenly the lady turned to me and said, and God says I'll take you off that shelf. And that message later proved to be true.
---mima on 3/11/10|