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Been In A Recovery Program

Has anyone gone to or is in Celebrate Recovery program? If so is it helping you progress?

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 ---Candice on 5/6/10
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Karen, I never said the Lord could not heal my mind. In fact, I believe He is using my participation in AA to do just that. I have learned things about myself in the past six months that were needed to learn, and I only learned them because of sitting in an AA meeting, listening to someone else share about themselves and I identified with their sharing. I believe the Lord can and will heal me. You are preaching to the choir on that topic. I just believe He is using AA to teach me and heal me.

Joseph: I never knew that statement was about catfish. Very interesting. I hope you are well today. Thanks.
---Trish9863 on 5/12/10

Trish...The statement was a generic statement. Your name was not used at all in that statement. I stand by my statement that the Lord can heal your mind and help you with all the pain in your life. He can do that for anyone who asks.
---KarenD on 5/12/10

Never heard of it.
---amand6348 on 5/12/10

Do you know that saying means a catfish not a feline? Catfish are very hard to skin and different people do it many different ways. Thus, there are many ways to skin a cat.

However, Jesus says the road is narrow. One way! Both of you cat fighting will not be able to fit tangled in one big hair ball.

Peace. No apologies necessary. Just let each others trespasses go. Then, you both will be able to walk in easily.
---aka_joseph on 5/11/10

Karen: I do not care that you disagree with me. There are many ways to skin a cat. I care that you attack me when I am doing nothing wrong.

You made an erroneous judgement of me in this statement.

"The thought that someone spends more time at AA meetings than at church or serving the Lord is sad."

You have no idea how much time I spend at my church. You also have no idea how I serve the Lord, or where I serve the Lord.

Feel free to share about healing in Jesus. I am all for that. Just leave me and my life out of your conversation. I do not attack you, yet you feel it is your right to attack me.
---Trish9863 on 5/11/10

Trish..Why is it that if anyone dare disagree with you on these blogs they always owe you an apology? My advice is not shallow as I have seen first hand the wonderful, healing power of Jesus Christ when he heals the mind. You do not have to live with this pain any longer. The countless physical problems that you continue to post about on these blogs can also be healed by Jesus. In fact, many of the physical problems will go away when you let the Lord heal your mind. Stop trying to find a method. Try Jesus!
---KarenD on 5/11/10

Every day I pray for a lot of people morning and night,some are Christians some aren't so I pray God will save those who aren't saved and deliver those who are addicted. Aka Joseph I will pray for you and your family that God will meet your needs and answer your hearts desire. God bless you for being faithful as a father for thoae three little ones,you are raising children in the admonition and love of the Lord and God will not forget your labor of love. Your attitude of praise for the riches of children is an opportunity for God to move. God inhabits the praise of his people and where God dwells is love and power. Expect a miracle and continue to praise God,he does want to help you. His love never fails.
---Darlene_1 on 5/11/10

Joseph: I am praying for you, that you would be able to find peace and joy in your situation. I am also praying for your little ones, and their mother.
God will bless you with healing for your broken heart, and for your children's hearts as well. I am not sure when, but each day you get stronger in Him, you get stronger in that power source, Jesus.
---Trish9863 on 5/11/10

Trish, I did pray for you about the health situation. 'Taking blame' was not the right wording. I take full responsibility for being who I am now from my childhood, my genetics, my family roots...Also, I do not take responsibility (anymore) for someone elses actions as best as I can right now. Once I had money, a house, good job, great sound system, guitars... Now, I have three little ones and barely enough to provide for them. However, I realize how rich I am because I am being adopted by the Father Himself. I just do not like that word 'but' or an explanation when an apology is given. I would rather not receive one if the 'big but' rears itself...and I will tell you of my experience with AA and Al Anon when I can.
---aka_joseph on 5/11/10

Karen: I pay little attention to your posts because you made inflammatory remarks about me, and failed to apologize. Your counsel is shallow. Your criticisms of me were unfounded and an apology is in order.
---Trish9863 on 5/11/10

The important thing about knowing how genetics can trigger addiction is to be forewarned therefore to be forearmed. By knowing my Dad's father was an alcoholic I was able to warn my children about the genetic makeup in the family. A person can have an addictive pesonality without it being alcohol or drugs as the addicts focus. The complex makeup of the human mind still presents its mysteries and there is no way to understand all the facets of how one's enviorment can affect a person. No matter what we experience Christians have added weapons to fight any war which presents itself into our lives and that is God's love,power,and strength. Trish and others are fighting the fight of faith depending on God to help them overcome.
---Darlene_1 on 5/10/10

You can go on and on without just stopping for a while and considering somebody else. You have that freedom.
---aka_joseph on 5/11/10

Trish...Finally! One thing I have never mentioned on these blogs is that abuse is the one thing that the majority of the addicts had in common at the rehab where I worked for years. Before a person can heal they must first recognize the true nature of why they drink or use drugs or live a rollercoaster life from one relationship to another. When a person comes to know Jesus Christ and begins to realize that Jesus can heal those hurts and pains and literally "heal their mind" then they begin to have a life without the mental torture. Let Doctor Jesus do a work in you. He will do it. Just ask!
---KarenD on 5/11/10

I tried to post a note to you, but the mod did not let it go through. I am sorry that you and your little ones are suffering as a result of your wife's drug addiction. There are many families torn apart by drugs and alcohol, including the one I grew up in. Do not blame yourself for your wife's choices at this time. As I have shared before, groups like Al-Anon offer support and understanding to family members affected by the alcoholism and drug addiction. God will definitely heal you and your little ones. Being able to talk to people who have walked in your walk can help you learn to not blame yourself.
---Trish9863 on 5/11/10

trish -- May God bring much fruit out of your minisry there! Speaking to others about Jesus will surely also help you in your own recovery. I will pray for you.
---Donna66 on 5/10/10

Donna: I could not have said it better. The thing I appreciate about AA, and I speak of AA only because it is the only program I have participated in, is that it takes that exact stance. The message they offer is, "Okay, you have a problem, now, we have a program that can help you, if you want it." The program requires a person to develop a relationship with God, and I share Jesus when we talk about those steps, clean house, and get rid of the resentments and bitternesses that eat at a person, and make amends in all relationships where damage has been done. They also encourage people to learn and practice prayer. Then, they encourage people to give back and share the program with newcomers.
---Trish9863 on 5/10/10

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The genetics is really a non-issue. We can't go back and change anybody's genes! We have to deal with the behavior.

Knowing that diabetes is usually inherited doesn't change anything. A diabetic still has to watch his diet, check his blood sugar, take his medication (or insulin) as ordered. Unless he is a child, nobody can do this for him.

Thus, an addict or alcoholic has to take responsibility for himself. Placing blame on anyone (even the addict himself) doesn't help. He may require a lot of help from those who have been where he is, and hopefully those who can lead them to Jesus. Jesus may deliver some outright, but most must practice ongoing determination..
---Donna66 on 5/10/10

Joseph: I have never, in the 20 years I have been in AA, heard anyone use genetics as an excuse for drunkenness. I doubt you have ever heard such either.

I have the gene because my father, his father, and on and on. I grew up with the alcoholic violence and insanity, and I am now an alcoholic in recovery. I have had to deal with my son's heroin addiction, and now he drinks instead of doing illegal drugs. So, I am experienced on all sides of this discussion, both as an alcoholic, and as a family member. Nobody in my family, and nobody in AA has ever used genetics as an excuse. Genetics explains, it does not excuse.
---Trish9863 on 5/10/10

#2...nevermind...the rest is inconsequential to you.

As I said, you have pain that I will never understand not from judgment but from my own lack of ability. You may throw around terms like genetics and post many blogs that take a superior stance, but you do not know what that means to an enabler, who also suffers from deep shame and guilt that you toss around like a rag. I have to stop now now so I do not cry in front of the three small children that were abandoned by their mom, so she can do drugs.

"A deeper compassion is born by experience."---Darlene_1 on 5/10/10

I pray they never find a gene linked to enabling. I have accepted who I am and who I am not, and have nobody to blame except myself.
---aka_joseph on 5/10/10

Joseph: Do not try to tell me I do not know the pain of growing up with alcoholism, or the pain of having addiction touch my life. My father was a violent drunk who tried to kill my mother on more than one occasion, and I had to throw my son out of my house because of his repeated heroin abuse, and leave him in a prison cell rather than bail him out. Don't talk to me about pain, I have had more than my fair share. My father's alcoholism cost me many sleepless nights as a child and I have horrific memories of hiding in bushes to be kept safe from him when I was three.
---Trish9863 on 5/10/10

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When we talk of being transformed by the renewing of our mind, then, why are there so many defenses about a possible genetic link? I did not say that there is no possible link...I said do not tell me it is gene-related that cannot be helped versus a conscious decision that can be when the mind is renewed.

You (pl) have experiences as an addict. KarenD and I have the experience as the family members of. Those are two different worlds. No, we will never know your deepest childhood pains and appreciate any of your adulthood antics. You do not and never will know our pain, especially now that we have to hear from addicts, "I am sorry but, there is a gene", which is to say "I am not sorry, because it is not my fault."...
---aka_joseph on 5/10/10

Rod4Him that's an excellant verse to describe what happens,we must renew our minds,that goes for many things in life. Bible says As a man thinks in his heart so is he. Paraphrase is fine,there's a lot to be said for the sermons on positive thinking,thats what that verse is about. The Bible is the best mental health guide we have.It's all about walking in love toward one another,following the example Christ set for us. Sometimes the things in life are hard for people to bear and they do need understanding and help to heal from the bad things done to them. God uses people to help other hurting people. A doctor once told me,the best doctor to treat TB is one who has had it. A deeper compassion is born by experience.
---Darlene_1 on 5/10/10

Rod and Darlene,
I have been in therapy with a cognitive therapist, and have also used it at the hospital I worked at. Like Rod said, in my therapy, I see it helping me "renew my mind." It really helped me sort out my thinking and get to the core beliefs that were tripping me up in my recovery from childhood traumas.
---Trish9863 on 5/10/10

Darlene, you got it, and I agree with you. Biblically, I see cognitive therapy as "be transformed by the renewing of your mind." They didn't have the term cognitive therapy back then. Call it what people will, the brain and heart can be transformed by how people think. Paul says "to think on things pleasant, lovely, good report, good virture, if there is any good news, think on these things." That was my memory paraphrase.
---Rod4Him on 5/10/10

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Karen: Who are you ranting to? Who are you to judge anyone for attending AA meetings? You are called to minister at your church. Amen, praise the Lord. I serve the Lord at my church as well. I also attend AA meetings, a minimum of three times a week. So who are you to judge my participation there? Who died and declared you the Holy Spirit of God?

Saying that alcoholism is genetic is not blaming anyone's parents, anymore than saying diabetes or cancer is genetic.

And, drinking alcohol is not a sin for normal drinkers, so who are you ranting to saying it is a sin when it isn't? Drunkenness is sinful.
---Trish9863 on 5/10/10

Karen: What is sad is not that I attend AA meetings as much as I do, it is that you find fault with it. You are the sad one, finding fault with my life when you know so little of it.
---Trish9863 on 5/10/10

Rod4Him,people handle stress any way that brings relief,for Christians it's the Word and prayer. You're right that not all with the Gene become addicted. That's also true of people with a Genius IQ,not all of them reflect that IQ in their lives. Just a thought alone doesn't produce a chemical in the brain. The chemicals in the brain are produced by neural pathways in the brain which gage how much,how strong the chemicals released through the synapse will be. Medications can alter pathways but not change them. In order to have new neural pathways there has to be repetitions of methods,concepts,and strategies for dealing with any fears/problems. Cognitive Therapy is just a new name used in the last 40 years for methods begun in the 1800's.
---Darlene_1 on 5/10/10

Donna: AA, as a collective organization, is loosely run, and makes no statements one way or other, for or against a specific God. Individuals in AA are entitled to believe in whomever they choose.

Because the 12 steps of AA are based on spiritual principles, which are all found in scripture, I have been able to share Jesus with many who are searching and seeking their "Higher Power."

Many in AA grew up in organized religion, and found it lacking, and are open to learning about a relationship with God, not a religion. I am blessed to share my faith in Christ with them. They are willing to listen to me, because I suffer from alcoholism and can relate to their pain and shame.
---Trish9863 on 5/10/10

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It is called sin! If you don't partake of it, you won't get hooked on it! Quit blaming your parents and everybody else for your sin. Praise the Lord and what HE HAS DONE FOR YOU! Take accountability for yourselves for once in your life and you might be able to LIVE FOR JESUS! And if you don't think I have walked in those shoes, think again! The thought that someone spends more time at AA meetings than at church or serving the Lord is sad. Right now there is a revival at the church where we pastor where the Lord is delivering alcoholics, addicts, ex-inmates, ex-everythings! You can't tell me that Jesus cannot change peoples' lives! Who is your first love?
---KarenD on 5/10/10

KarenD ... "My experience working in CHRISTIAN rehab is that those who came to know Jesus Christ stayed clean and sober"

As a matter of interest, those who have been alcoholics, and have become clean through your Christian rehab ... can they now partake of any alcohol?

Or do they have to avoid it all, to stop slipping back?
---alan8566_of_uk on 5/10/10

AA was founded by a Christian and the twelve steps are quite Biblical. They have gotten away from the specifically Christian teachings, but I have known several people who started out believing in a "higher power" and ended up believing in Jesus.

It's not "christian rehab" but AA has helped thousands to lifelong sobriety and I see no reason to criticize them. They do nothing to prevent people from becoming Christian.
---Donna66 on 5/9/10

Karen: You speak lies about me. I do not work full time in the psychiatric field. When I worked there, it was part time, and I have not worked there in months. I am a full time public school teacher. I am a supporter of AA, because I got sober in AA, and am sober today because I use the 12 steps and Jesus to get and stay sober. I attend 3-5 AA meetings a week, for the past 20 years.

Unless you have walked in my shoes, don't judge me. AA has never told a believer not to believe in Christ. AA tells people that regardless of why you are an alcoholic, you are responsible for taking the 12 steps and getting sober. Many people have come to Christ, or returned to their faith, as a result of getting sober in AA.
---Trish9863 on 5/9/10

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Darlene, granted I know just enough psychology and statistics to be dangerous. However, I can read. Psychology and the genetic folks don't agree. You can do a quick search and find that out. Some people with a "genetic" disposition don't become alcoholics. Some do. They don't know why. Consequently, the topic is still open for debate.
There is such is thing as cognitive therapy. How one thinks changes the chemicals of the brain? I believe Trish would agree with that.
I am not against some drug therapy, but I am more inclined to cognitive therapy. Jesus Christ is the Great Physician.
---Rod4Him on 5/9/10

GABRG3 influences alcoholism risk. GABRG3 is one of three genes that have been studied and identified in the research supporting the idea of an alcoholism gene.

Identifying a gene does not take away responsibility for the alcoholic. It takes away the labeling and blame placing that goes on. It does not matter to me why I am an alcoholic. I know that I cannot drink without problems and terrible consequences.

AA does not dictate what form my Higher Power must take. I am free to worship and rely on my Lord and Savior to help free me from the addictive power that alcohol has in my life. Because I have been freed by Jesus, I can share that with those in AA who do not know about Him.
---Trish9863 on 5/9/10

Darlene1...Trish has often posted on these blogs that she is a supporter of AA which teaches that you must have a "higher power" and it doesn't have to the THE ONLY TRUE GOD. It can be anything you want it to be as long as you believe it. Trish's career is in the psychiatric field as she has stated often on these blogs. Trish's livelihood depends on genetics and addictions. Alcohol and drugs are no different than any other sin. A person has to make the choice to use either before they become an "addict" by the world's standards. My experience working in CHRISTIAN rehab is that those who came to know Jesus Christ stayed clean and sober.
---KarenD on 5/9/10

Rod4Him yes in a sense we do all have a genetc link to sin,in that we are all genetic decendents of Adam and Eve. Unless you have a Doctorate Degree in Genetics,and have researched it yourself,then your challenge really doesn't carry much weight, Ha ha sorry Rod I couldn't pass up that obvious detail. We can eat chocolate candy and change the chemicals in the brain because by doing so we release endorphins into the brain. They are the feel good chemicals and that is often the reason in time of stress people reach for chocolate or other food which gives that effect. In any addiction,illness,or problems in life we as Christians have an outside strength and that is God's Word and God being with us always to give extra strength when we need him.
---Darlene_1 on 5/9/10

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I challenge the genetic link to alcoholism. I suppose all mankind has a genetic link to sin.
I know it is not that simple. However, alcohol and drugs do change the chemical balance of the brain, which contributes to the dependence on the drug. Which came first, the genetic or dependence on the drug, or the decision to take the drug?
I question myself sometimes. Did I change a dependence on drugs to a dependence on Jesus Christ? meaning that I have a dependence problem, genetically?
I can't help but believe that everyone has a dependence issue. It depends what they put their dependence on, self, money, philosophies, religion, greed, vanities, or Christ?
---Rod4Him on 5/9/10

I want you to know Trish is 100% correct. I read her post several times and she didn't say in any way Jesus doesn't heal anything either. I think you need to ask yourself why you saw her statement as a threat against the Bible and Jesus ability of healing all things. All Trish gave you was plain Scientific information about gentetic relation to alcoholism. Not sure this is the study she gave information about but,researchers found twins who had been separated from birth,by adoption,never knowing one another,and found they both became alcoholics,and with the study of both found it to be a genetic cause not how they were raised,life experiences or enviroment. To tell a Christian to try healing is saying they haven't. Thats unfair,you don't know.
---Darlene_1 on 5/9/10

Elder,all due respect to you,you are misinformed,the learned whether Chrisian or secular,do not tell anyone alcoholic addiction can't be helped because of genetic makeup. Aren't all who have a Degree one,once they get it they become one of the learned of one sort or another? You know hurting people are hurting people no matter the cause and the focus is helping them recover from that and thats the same whether genetic or behavioral. In many cases with Psychologial Counseling the Counselors don't even look at the cause but deal with the Clients coping behavior and teach them to modify that. Some secular counselors even tell their clients to look to God because they need something for the healing. So true.
---Darlene_1 on 5/9/10

Karen, I did not say anything contrary to Biblical Truth. Nor, did I say that alcoholism could not be healed. The context of what I posted had to do with Joseph saying that alcoholism is not a genetic disease. I know for a fact that it is genetic. I did not say anything untrue.

Like all diseases, alcoholism can be healed. But, like all diseases, Jesus does not heal all alcoholics in the same way. That is my belief, based on my experience with alcoholics, and my own alcoholism.
---Trish9863 on 5/8/10

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I don't even know what it is.....The only thing that is going to help you progress is the living God. Now, I hate coming off as being religious. I mean, I do not wish to sound religious. But, none-the-less, what I have written is the truth and nothing but the truth.
---catherine on 5/8/10

"Several studies done at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, Indiana University School of Medicine and other universities, found in 2004 that there is a genetic link with alcoholism. These studies were published in journal articles in 2004. The gene even has a name." Trish
Yea, the "genetic link" comes right out of a bottle and can. The name for one link is sinner.
KarenD, no one can ever get help with sin or sickness from the Lord until they admit the need. That is hard to do when the "Learned" tell'em they can't help it because of their make up. No one who consumes alcohol is able to not be affected by it. So where is the real problem? Those who say they can stop at anytime don't. Why?
---Elder on 5/8/10

Karen: I never said that alcoholism could not be healed. I was disputing Joseph's assertion that alcoholism is not genetic. Scientific research studies have shown that alcoholism is genetic. I have always agreed that alcoholism, like any other disease, can be healed. BUT, I have always believed that alcoholism, like other diseases, is not always healed. Also, as with other diseases, alcoholism may be healed in different ways in different people.
---Trish9863 on 5/8/10

//Why do you challenge years of scientific research and make statements that are false?//
It is fine that you accept 'objective truth' from these 'experts'. However, think about what the ramifications of these studies are: "We must suffer the addict's behavior of lying, cheating, stealing, abusing, neglecting, endangering...because alcoholics cannot help give us more money to research how to change this gene. Oh, BTW, Jesus cannot help you, only we can."

As a statistician of sorts, I can make mathematical data say whatever the highest bidder wants me to. The only thing that you can verify about the DNA link is that you read publications that publish these findings. Have you ever lived with an addict?
---aka_joseph on 5/9/10

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Trish...Why do you make statements that are contrary to Biblical truths? The Bible says that Jesus can heal anything. From personal experience, I can tell you that I have seen wonders done for people who were drug and alcohol users. Their lives were turned around when they turned them over to the Lord. Try it. Jesus can relieve all those pains, pressures, trials and tribulations that you go through constantly. He is the healer!
---KarenD on 5/8/10

Karen and Joseph,
Why do you challenge years of scientific research and make statements that are false?
---Trish9863 on 5/8/10

Several studies done at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, Indiana University School of Medicine and other universities, found in 2004 that there is a genetic link with alcoholism. These studies were published in journal articles in 2004. The gene even has a name.
---Trish9863 on 5/8/10

aka..Joseph...I agree with you. My husband's father was a drunk and my husband used to be a drunk until Jesus saved him and delivered him from alcohol. My father was a drunk, but I have never needed alcohol. Out of the eight siblings in our family, only one has a problem with substance abuse. Drugs, alcohol and tobacco are habits than can be stopped just like any other bad habit. If you are sold out for Jesus you don't have time or the wanting for those things.
---KarenD on 5/7/10

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Candice good for you. I didn't know you are from Texas. I am about 60 miles from you near Ft Hood. Glad to hear you are doing well in that treatment program. Our dearest friend,my husbands cousin was an alcoholic from his teen years. In his fifties he went into the inpatient treatment program at Scott and White Hospital,and although he took the pill which makes you sick if you drink with them,for the next five years he lived alcohol free. He died from a massive heart attack.
---Darlene_1 on 5/6/10

Our group that just started is small. So, mainly, we have substance abusers in our group. I have other hurts, hang-ups, and habits of a co-dependent. So, I don't relate so much. I don't understand drug abuse, and I never will. (Don't anybody tell me it is a DNA related disease that cannot be helped... blah, blah, blah. I believe it is a choice that may be driven by familial roots, but I am convinced it is not genetic.) Otherwise, it would be untreatable which would make "recovery" programs like CR useless as well as the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I like that people cannot smoke/cuss and have to maintain some decorum. I am not of Rick Warren.

---aka_joseph on 5/6/10

We have many churches here in the Austin,roundrock, tx location & I go to one near my home.It has helped a lot.I thought I didn't need it ,but went anyways & found out I really did! Now on thursdays I'm in the stepstudies class, another class of CR. I recommend it to those who want help in recovery from a biblical view.I won't state all my issues but 2 of them have been Co-dependency & anger issues. Anger is calmed down alot & working on the co-dependency.Will be there a year end of this month.
---Candice on 5/6/10

I am in aCelebrate Recovery Progam. I absolutely love it.It has helped me be free again. The program has reminded me, how precious God is in my live. His agape is amazeing!
---Brandy on 5/6/10

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