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Social Moral Code Christianity

To what extent has Christianity created the moral code on which our society depends?

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you really no nothing about the theory of evolution. Discussion is pointless.
---atheist on 6/10/10

Donna66: THe way of distingushing between an instinctive code and conscientious morality is always difficult - even we ourselves may not be sure what is what!

Awarenes of a higher 'being' is indeed unlikely in animals
---Emma on 6/10/10

tom2-- Most mammals DO have a rudamentary "code" of behavior.
Some dogs are alpha dogs and the others do not defy them. A dog shows subsevience by exposing its' abdoman.When they share food, they eat in an established order.

Every herd of horses has an old mare who bosses the other mares and the geldings around. There is an obvious heirarchy among them.

Elephants protect the young of other elephants and I think perhaps primates do the same. Primates use facial expressions to communicate disapproval much like humans.

Some instinctual "rules" are fairly complex. But it's doubtful they have "consciences" or any awareness of a higher power.
---Donna66 on 6/10/10

'atheist': Nice tap dance, but as usual, you've ducked the core issue. Your core belief that morality arose by random chance and natural selection in darwinian evolution is fatally flawed and you know it. Your argument that "morality exists and therefore it evolved" is equally vacuous. The conscience you posess is the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit speaking to you. Why don't you try answering Him - just once?
---jerry6593 on 6/10/10

Jesus living in you does not necessarily make you a good person. But, it does make you a righteous person....We have a lot of good people in the world. Not many are righteous. Occasionally you hear the term, "beautiful on the inside as well as on the outside. Maybe this is so. But, you are not righteous on the inside. You would have to have the living God, living in you. You have been made right with God, through His Son's Blood.....I AM NOT A GOOD PERSON. BUT I AM A RIGHTEOUS PERSON. Don't ever say to me, "you are a good person", because I would have to say to you, "no I am not, only God is. Just like Jesus.
---catherine on 6/10/10

its makes no sense that man would be the only animal to develope or should I say evolve into one with conscience,and codes of conduct.actually with all the thousands of different life forms it really makes no sense at all that human beings would be so far more advanced ,and developed than any other life form,seems to me that with the evolution thing bears should be talking and driving cars,and atleast several hundred other species,why not?cause man has been made in someones image,thats why.
---tom2 on 6/9/10


You must be right, for I have never seen a bird sit on a nest, or adult birds bring food to their young. Why in the world would that ever happen, and how could you explain it in evolutionary terms?

I have heard of the "social behavior" of insects such as bees, termites and ants. But I am sure it is not true. How could evolutionary theory explain such things such as this? Not something so obivous as a greater likelyhood for the trait to survive because its carrier, the animal, might survive to reproduce....NO No no...?!

And then there are the ideas of kin selection and reciprocal altruism, but those aren't mentioned in the bible and so don't exist either...
---atheist on 6/9/10

'atheist': Random Chance is your creator 'god' and Charles Darwin is his prophet. You do believe in evolution, don't you? Does this theory discuss the development of morality by natural selection or not? If not (and it doesn't), how do you account for this unnatural development? Haven't you ever questioned the fundamentals of your belief system before?
---jerry6593 on 6/9/10


To protect my children from those who would in the name of some 'god' and 'religion' would use their 'scripture' to believe and do whatever they chose to do, allowing "Hell on earth", while they santimoniously claim their place in heaven and warn all who disagree with them that they are destined to hell.

I am not concerned with dieing or going to hell, but I am concerned with leaving a hell here for my children and future generations.
---atheist on 6/8/10

atheist, you already know if I was without "God" if I would go on a murderous rampage, because you proclaim to be without God.
---Eloy on 6/7/10

I take that to mean that since I am not on a murderous rampage, and I am without 'god', that you wouldn't be either? So it is possible for people to display a modicum of morality with 'god'.

But I am unclear with the rest. Are you saying that you father is 'god' and mine is satan, or something like that?
---atheist on 6/7/10


I don't think he did. Never met the man, so it would be strange if he left any recommendations along these lines to myself or anyone.

And why does you second question matter? A sense of morality is common to all people, and caring for one another can certainly be observed in animals. Are you implying that it doens't exists because I cannot tell you when and where it started?
---atheist on 6/7/10

atheist --- I didn't say you had no purpose. I just wondered what it is. I'm still wondering.
---Donna66 on 6/7/10

atheist, you already know if I was without "God" if I would go on a murderous rampage, because you proclaim to be without God. As for myself, the Father is in me, and I am in the Father: he calls me by name and leads me in pastures of tender grass, beside the waters of quietness, he set me forward to feed. He that sent me is with me: the Father has not left me alone, for I do always those things that please him. But this I know, when a person is without God, they can be influenced by their father who's devil, and the desires of their father they will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and stands not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
---Eloy on 6/7/10

atheist: pls answer the good questions Jerry6593 asked you?
---Adetunji on 6/7/10

'atheist': Just Curious, but exactly what did Charles Darwin say was the "purpose" for your life? And at what point in your animal ancestry did your 'morality' develop?
---jerry6593 on 6/7/10

Athiest, Warwick is correct and your assessment is also correct when you said,
"Only yourself, and those you agree with are fit and receieve the word of 'god'.
You are indeed exceptional"

All that follow Christ are exceptional. They are different then the others. That is what he is trying to tell you about Jesus. But since you do not believe that, you want everyone to be included, but the word of God say's different. Not everyone is included. Some who answer you might not be exceptional but those who follow Christ are.
None of us know who the others are for a fact, we can see their fruits and make a determination but it will not be a perfect determination since we do not see their hearts.
---MarkV. on 6/7/10

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Atheist>>>I did not say that. I will always be reeling over the fact that God came to me on that warm June afternoon. Listen, I have to stay close to my Saviour, it is the only way that I will make it here and to heaven. I have no choice....Have a good week.
---catherine on 6/6/10


You have avoided the question: Without 'god' would you go on a murderous rampage?

Catherine, the best you can do is tell me that you are better than me, because I am going to hell and you're not?

Donna, why are the religious so pretentious as to believe they are the only ones with purpose in the lives?
---atheist on 6/6/10

WHAT IS SAD, you don't want to believe. Good or bad you will go to hell without the Blood of Jesus. I promise tou.
---catherine on 6/6/10

atheist, saddness on your part, but not on mine nor the believers part: for why do you have a self-control, when in your belief there is no such thing as God, and therefore no accountability? Who do you think holds this magnanimous orb up in space, called earth, and spins it like a top in mid space while keeping all the millions of gallons of oceans with all of its fishes and all the peoples and animals and cars and buildings on the earth? and who keeps this spinning and revolving orb at the meticulous distance from the sun so as not to move too close or smash into the firey and blazing sun and thereby totally obliterating and incinerating his planet? who brings the rain and the air? It's easy, God Almighty, Chrst Jesus the Maker of all.
---Eloy on 6/6/10

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atheist-- Is there any purpose for your life?
---Donna66 on 6/6/10

And if there is no God, or no right or wrong, then what is preventing me from either killing every person I see or else embracing every person I see?
---Eloy on 6/4/10

Really? Without your belief in 'god' you would behave in wonton abandon and have not idea of what is right or wrong?

Sad. Very, very sad.

No self control without the fear of punishment in hell by a 'god' who watches your every move.

Sad. Very, very sad.

Couldn't know to help someone else in need without 'god' telling you?

Sad. Very, very sad.

And your 'god' is going to torture me in hell forever because I don't believe in him, but still know right from wrong?

No. He's not there, nor is hell. Not sad...
---atheist on 6/5/10

jesus said what we must do,and very plainly too.
---tom2 on 6/4/10

Yes Eloy the suggestion of right and wrong, good and evil without a moral agent is not possible but I think his answer for every question is another question.

He knows the answer lies within the creator so the sophistry is put on an endless loop to avoid the look in the mirror.

When a man always spreads doubt, looks to devide the brethren, seeks not to edify, avoids self-reflection at all cost, and as we discovered earlier this week spews muscle-bound lies he has the signature of Belzebub.
---larry on 6/4/10

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An atheist denies the truth that they thmeself are believing in God, for they profess that there is "a moral" or "a right and a wrong": but the atheist should ask themself, how can there be any right or wrong if there is no God to set any standard? and how can I believe in right or wrong if I say there is no God? And if there is no God, or no right or wrong, then what is preventing me from either killing every person I see or else embracing every person I see?
---Eloy on 6/4/10

2Pet 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
---micha9344 on 6/4/10

To what extent has Christianity created the moral code on which our society depends?

Ask the Native Americans, and Africans.
---francis on 6/4/10

Warwick: atheist's comment 'Not two people here can agree on what that means' is always a warning for us

I do not like to admit it, but reading on this site, there is too much disagreement about what the Bible actually tells us to do, so maybe we too must consider why we disagree so much!

---Mark on 6/4/10

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Atheist ... Warwick is right when he says

"Following His commands leads to forgiveness and salvation, also causing us to be good neighbours to our fellow man, even our enemies"

For those are the things He taught.

Unfortunately MEN have added to that, and use their own interprestation to use Christianity (rather than Jesus' teaching)in their dealings with other men.

Leading to wars, oppression, inquisitions.

Don't blame Jesus, blame ther way men have twisated and delectively used what he said.

Blame the "religion" not the Man
---alan8566_of_uk on 6/4/10

Atheist: you are impressive in your defence of your views, though I disagree with them

It is good that we Christians are reminded of what others believe

---Anna on 6/4/10

I would be more concerned about spiritual conduct,or thinking about and obeying God,this will help set your moral compass.
---tom2 on 6/4/10

atheist, Jesus is exceptional. Following His commands leads to forgiveness and salvation, also causing us to be good neighbours to our fellow man, even our enemies. You are unable to show otherwise demonstrating you made a rude generalization now realizing know you are wrong.

What you don't comprehend is that we are reacting to Jesus' Biblical commands. Commands you reject, but that is irrelevant. Just an opinion.

If I am 'exceptional' it is because I follow the word of God which is confirmed for us by the Holy Spirit. You conversely are a man standing outside the city hurling abuse, wondering why the king won't let him in.

Jesus tells us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. What is wrong with that?
---Warwick on 6/2/10

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You seem to be promoting the idea of a special iteration of "Christian exceptionalism" based on the "following of Jesus".

Anyone who believes and behaves in a way that you agree with and agrees with your interpretation of what you believe "following Jesus" means, is in the club.

All others, of other faiths, or "Christians" with beliefs and actions not agreeing with yours, you denigerate as being untrue and false Christians.

Only yourself, and those you agree with are fit and receieve the word of 'god'.

You are indeed exceptional...
---atheist on 6/2/10

Cluny, I agree that we are not saved by rules or by what we do, but by God's grace. Nonetheless Jesus has plainly told us how we Christians must live. That is what I refer to as rules. Maybe there is a better term.

atheist says that following religion has negative consequences for society. He includes Christianity in this. I have repeatedly asked what negative consequences exist for society if we follow Christianity, which is obviously the same as saying following Christ. However he ducks and weaves as he knows he is wrong but is too proud to admit his error. After all he sees us (scientists and all) as ignorant religionists!
---Warwick on 6/2/10

atheist, wrong again. There is a rule book for tennis, and a 'rule book' for Christianity. We were not there when the tennis rule book was written but accept there are no basketballs in tennis.

Likewise in our Christian guide-book there is clear guidance. That you accept one and not the other exposes your bias.

"Not two people here can agree on what that means." Wrong again, most agree. Has any Christian here said we can hate our neighbours, steal, murder, bear false witness, commit adultery? Some here claiming to be Christians are as those who claim to be tennis players but don't play tennis, or don't play by its rules. Should we listen to them? You do because it fits with your bigotry.
---Warwick on 6/1/10

\\Since there is not referee or rules in you game of 'following Jesus'.\\

atheist, if we could be saved by following rules, Christ need not have come.

Christianity is not about following rules, but a living relationship with the living Christ.
---Cluny on 6/1/10

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I will step in here for this post to straighten our athiest friend out,the new testament,which applies to christians was written as is ,and perserved as is, within a seventy year span after the death and resurrection of jesus christ,your insinuation the it has been written and re written ,interpreted,and re interpreted is totally wrong and even most secular scholars agree.all the books were written during this seventy year period with revelation being the last one around 90 AD.pauls letters were written to churches within a 30 year span after jesus was resurrected,as might I ask what interest has an athiest in Gods word,and your facts are totally wrong.
---tom2 on 6/1/10

Pride comes before the fall Atheist. Don't just wallow in your error when exposed.
Moses did not return from Mount Nebo with the Bill of Rights and Commandments 6-10 are visible, as I said, adjacent to his beard.

Take the tour like the rest of us first experienced in Junior High School or visit the courts own website instead of just being blindly truculent.

With no God i.e. "moral agent" and therefore no right, wrong, good or evil what are you blathering about anyway?
The point is the inscription on the top of the Washington Monument..."Praise Be To God"
---larry on 6/1/10

"Do I become a tennis player by saying I am one or by playing? You would have us believe that merely claiming to be a player makes me a player!"---Warwick.

Obviously yes. Since there is not referee or rules in you game of 'following Jesus'. Not two people here can agree on what that means, so following Jesus means whatever you say it means. If someone says something you don't agree with,you do just say that he is not really a follower of Jesus. But until that disagreement arises you all pretend that you are guided by one common and definable purpose.

You refer to a rulebook, written, re-written,translated, re-translated, interpreted, re-interpreted authored by someone, long after the key character was dead.
---atheist on 6/1/10

atheist-faulty reasoning!

Christians follow Jesus Christ, accepting the Bible as God's revelation, the Truth.

What you believe about Jesus changes nothing.

Jesus has commanded us how to live: e.g in the beatitudes. Those who follow Him follow His commands. Those claiming to be Christian who act in opposition to His commands are not by any rational definition Christians but hypoctites, and liars.

Do I become a tennis player by saying I am one or by playing? You would have us believe that merely claiming to be a player makes me a player!

Research Jesus Biblical commands. Then answer my question: What in His commands has negative consequences for society.
---Warwick on 6/1/10

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atheist I cannot ignore the irony in your blogs. You claim there is no good evidence for the historical reality of Jesus or the Truth of Scripture. At the same time believing microbe-to-man evolution is fact, while unable to provide proof.

Professor Richard Dawkins promotes himself as a leader in the proEvolution fight. He wrote 'The Greatest Show on Earth: the evidence for evolution. Dr Jonathan Sarfati countered with 'The Greatest Hoax on Earth: Refuting Dawkins on Evolution. Sarfati easily refutes every one of Dawkin's claims.

BTW Dr Sarfati (along with thousands of others) is a scientist who accepts the Bible as God's revealed historical Truth. However in your terms he must be an ignorant babbler as he rejects evolution.
---Warwick on 6/1/10

The "credible account of Jesus" is in my mind ,a spiritual presence of divinity and a spiritual presence of Jesus himself as divine and only others can assume otherwise.
Believability is not based upon physical observations but a personal experience .
The act of "Following Jesus" is a simple but dedicated task requiring mental and physical endurance-also a courage to maintain faith in spite of those who encourage others to forfeit the cause.As Jesus lived so he died a human death but he the spirit lives on.So shall those who exercise the Father's will find their transformation a success.If one wants to live and die and not see the greater universe that right is their own but this is my right to continue to live on.
---earl on 6/1/10

There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history.

Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ.

The Gospels themselves were written in the first century (Within 200 yrs is considered most credible). Josephus the most famous Jewish historian wrote (Annuls 15:44), of a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century.
---Donna66 on 6/1/10

Warwick, again I answer:

After numerous translations/interpretations, additions/redactions I do not believe there is a credible account of a "historical Jesus".

Nor, do I believe that any two "Christians" agree, based on their personal interpretations of an uncertain "scripture", on what it would means to follow Jesus.

I have stated the above numerous times.

I could not make the statement you attribute to me because I believe nobody has any idea of what "following Jesus" means.

I have consistently stated that god and religion are used by people to excuse and justify all manner of belief and actions. Some that call themselves Christian are among those, and you know it.
---atheist on 6/1/10

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As various iterations of the "Golden Rule" demonstrate, there is a commonality between basic 'moral' thought, despite the society, the god, the number of gods, the lack of god or gods, the time and place of the society, or any other number of factors.

However, as we know it is not uncommon for adherents of a religion to claim that their god was the first with morality and the only one who got it right, along with the proper path to salvation, eternal life, and avoidance of bad things happening to you forever after you die.
---atheist on 6/1/10

\\1) The tablets on the impediment on the outside of Supreme Court are blank.\\

I don't think there is any significance in this, beyond possibly the laziness of the sculptor.

And the word you're looking for is "pediment".

As far as the various forms of the Golden Rule (which nobody to my knowledge claimed was original for Jesus), you might want to read what C. S. Lewis wrote about this in MERE CHRISTIANITY and elsewhere.
---Cluny on 6/1/10

atheist on a closed thread you claimed I lied about you. Nonsense. You claimed that following religion had negative consequences for society. Many times I asked you to show how following Christ's commands could have negative consequences. You evaded replying. Evasion is deceit.

You then passionately defended the preposterous idea the antiChristian psychopath Adloph Hitler was a Christian. You falsely claimed he followed Christ.

I believe you did this in a pathetic, misguided attempt to defend your negative consequences for society claims.

If you had any integrity you would admit you know of no negative consequences for society in the commands of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And you call me a liar! How ironic.
---Warwick on 6/1/10

larry: Listening to an atheist expound on religion is like listening to Hitler expound on religious tolerance and human rights.
---jerry6593 on 6/1/10

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1) The tablets on the impediment on the outside of Supreme Court are blank.
2) On other depictions of stone tablets the Roman numerals do refer to the Bill of Rights, Adolph A. Weinman, the designer of the friezes and impediments stated that fact in a letter.
3) Yes, on one frieze Moses is holding tablets with what appears to be Hebrew. That is not to be taken as an endorsement of religion, i.e. your religion, because he stands among numerous other historical 'lawgivers.' Including BTW, Menes (c. 3200 B.C.) First King of the first dynasty of ancient Egypt holding the ankh, an Egyptian symbol for life. Maybe this country was founded by people believing in an Egyptian god?
---atheist on 5/31/10

There are a few similarities shared by almost all religions, but the only religions that have formed and dominated the mores of our society in North America (northern Europe, too, one might say) are Christianity and Judaism. Both these religions have a common origin and moral code.

Early American documents make periodic references to God and occasionally to Christ.
Until the 1950's prayer, and even Bible study, were accepted in the public schools.
Now they are accepted only on an individual basis if chosen by the students (Though some schools are now providing special accomodation for Muslim students). The laws in the U.S. are based on the Bible and British Common law. But behavior is becoming increasingly amoral.
---Donna66 on 5/31/10

I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics of deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature. Thomas Jefferson

Is he talking about the Christian right?
---atheist on 5/31/10

"Only one adequate plan has ever appeared in the world, and that is the Christian dispensation."
- John Jay, First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court

Oops, sorry Atheist!

It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religious, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here.
Patrick Henry 1776

I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our Creator and, I hope, to the pure doctrine of Jesus also.
Thomas Jefferson
---larry on 5/31/10

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Jerry, this is what I was talking about how an anti-Christ not thee anti-Christ work to oppose the works of God.
Atheist scolded you for stating the 10 commandments were on the Supreme Court frieze. He argued the inscriptions are symbols of the first 10 amendments instead. This is a lie straight from the pit of Hell.

Weinman's sculptures are of "law givers" which includes Moses, Solomon but also Muhammad and Napoleon.
Moses is IN FACT holding two overlapping tablets as commandments 6 through 10 are partially visible behind his beard. And why would Weinman inscribe 5 "Bill of Rights" in Hebrew, duh?
Atheist is a preposterous liar and his works are exposed.
---larry on 5/31/10

I do not know what has happened or what God's PEOPLE are doing. Satan has been allowed to take over virtually everything. The Churches, yes, The Government, yes, the schools, huh, huh, neighborhoods and homes. And then we wonder why is everything so terrible. It is because God has bee kicked in His teeth. Ahh Jesus. Ah. HELL. You just wait, God has not had His day IN COURT, YET.
---catherine on 5/31/10

Christianity: All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them, for this is the law and the prophets.

Confucianism: Do not do to others what you would not like yourself.

Buddhism: Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.

Hinduism: This is the sum of duty, do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.

Islam: No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.

Judaism: What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law, the rest is commentary.

Taoism: Regard your neighbors gain as your gain, and your neighbors loss as your loss.

"Christian Golden Rule"?
---atheist on 5/31/10

Cluny ... The reason I did not expand on my question is explained by Tom2's attack on me for asking a question!! ... He has always been hostile to whatever I say or ask, even when I am agreeing with him! Perhaps his sickness has something to do with this. I w am praying for him.

Elder ... as Mark has pointed out, the question was about our moral code (not either country's laws) and ours is much the same as yours.

I'm surprised that no-one, so far, has pointed out that Christian morals are based firmly on the Jewish 10 commandments!
---alan8566_of_uk on 5/31/10

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Christianity has not / did not create the moral code. God spoke it, and wrote it on two tablets of stone.

" Christianity" has done more to destroy the moral code than they have done to uphold it.

While " christians" teach in their churches that we are NOT UNDER THE LAW ( meaning we are not required to keep the ten commandments especially the forth) They are political advocates of the ten commandments in public places. They are attempting to force a moral law on society that they have rejected in practice, and hold sacred only in principle.

If ALL christians were to keep ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS America would be a very different nation.

It would be a true moral nation.
---Francis on 5/31/10

Buddhism: "...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?"
Christianity: " as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."
Confucianism: "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you"
Ancient Egyptian: "Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do."
Hinduism: This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you.
Islam: "None of you believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself."
Judaism: "What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary."
---atheist on 5/31/10

"...our (US) Supreme Court building has the Ten Commandments inscribed on its frieze,...How far we have sunk!"---jerry6593 on 5/31/10

Adolph Weinman, the designer of this frieze, which you reference, states that the tablet visible between the two central male figures, engraved with the Roman numerals I through X, represents not the Ten Commandments but the first "ten amendments to the Constitution known as the 'Bill of Rights'.

We have sunk far. The religionists on the right use false email campaigns to subvert the Constitution with the 'ten commandments'. Will you stop at nothing, Jerry? Is this an example of the implementation of Christian moral code?
---atheist on 5/31/10

Alan: Most of the moral code upon which not only Christians and even non-Christians depend are either Christian or mostly Christian

It is also true that most of the older religions (while I disaproove of them) held similar morals (de it Judaism, even Islam, ancient Native American, Indian, Chinese, etc) - not the same, but if you read them, there are many similarities

MODERN morals are too 'self' based, and so the idea of sacrificing what we desire for what is right is ignored

There is an interesting book, called 'The abolition of man' about the similarities of morals - I liked it, though it's not specifically Christian
---peter3594 on 5/31/10

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Tom2: Blessing be with you, may God use you in your unwellness to show His goodness to all, and, hopefully, to be well again (if that is God's will)
---peter3594 on 5/31/10

Elder: While you are correct, the morals of the constitution were taken FROM the Bible

So even if the Bible is removed (I don't see much evidence) then we still have the consitution which is from the Bible

The question, for both, is how WE read them
---Mark on 5/31/10

Society has left Christianity to serve sin, and thereby society reaps the rotten fruits thereof.
---Eloy on 5/31/10

It is ironic that our (US) Supreme Court building has the Ten Commandments inscribed on its frieze, indicating the moral law upon which our society is based, and yet our modern court system will not allow them to be displayed in government buildings. How far we have sunk!
---jerry6593 on 5/31/10

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Tom, I too am so sorry to see you leave the site. I'm sorry also that you are not in good health. I have heard of some who are not doing well and have put them in my prayers. I will put you and family also in my prayers. Another that has not answered is Lee, he too has left maybe for good, and he too has not been well and his wife is also very sick and he has to take care of her in his condition. Thanks for all of your answers as a defender of the Truth, on the blogs you have posted. I hope you get well enough to come back, Blessings and peace to you and your family,
---MarkV. on 5/31/10

alan,Is your question here also compare /parallel a previous post where the phrase "moral constitution" arose ?
Christianity is Paul's influence,Jesus' teachings is influence to Paul.There are some noted differences as the two are not the exact.
However Pauls teachings based on Jesus' teachings present man with a greater task to civilize the self in comparrison to what man pre Jesus percieved as a civilized man.
Jesus demonstrated what was God like and what was not .Jesus implied perfection is the goal and change is a must.
Overall, christianity has heavily influenced much of the world creating improved conditions .Morals are read on a scale of "value".The value is interpreted.
---earl on 5/30/10

Tom, I am sorry to hear that you are seriously unwell. I will pray for you.

I am also sorry to see you go.

God bless.
---Warwick on 5/30/10

Until about the 1960's, the mores of Christianity and our (American) society were very much the same. Cheating and stealing were wrong (no matter what motivated them). Adultery was a serious violation of the marriage vows (which were generally sincerely spoken or, at least respected). Living together without marriage was unacceptable to Christians and non-Christians alike. Divorce was to be avoided. Abortion was rarely excused. Children learned these things in both SCHOOL and HOME. They knew better than to blame others for their misdeeds.
Today the values of Christianity are "ridgid", "unreasonable" and quaintly outdated. I'm not sure on WHAT moral code our society depends. I guess, as long as it's not illegal....
---Donna66 on 5/30/10

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why do people obey the law? are they afraid of the consequences if they dont?if there were no consequences to anything we did then everyone would do they they pleased.when we do this in opposition to Gods word its called sin,when we do this in opposition to our laws we have still sinned,the world is morally bankrupt without God.
---tom2 on 5/30/10

I will use this blog as my farewell to all,there are several out of hundreds of familiar bloogers on this site who I firmily believe know and live the word,alan in my opinion you arent one of them,and iam really far to unhealthy to allow your mainly absurd interpretations of Gods word to cause me any more problems I have enough,so to keep the peace,and mainly what little health I have left I say goodbye to my brothers and sisters who actually know and live the word.Goodbye .
---tom2 on 5/30/10

Social moral Is limited for True Christians.
True Christians Are to live a clean & holy life before God.
The status-quo of those that are in the Man-made relig - org's - churches beginning with the rcc are trying to have 1 foot in to serve God & the other in with the devilish things of this world that he has to offer, smokes, social-alc drinks, dirty language, club dancing, nakedness, missing services to pay & or to watch sports & the such like. 1stJohn 2 v's 15 - 16. You canNot serve 2 masters. Choose you today whom you will serve.
---Lawrence on 5/30/10

alan,you never profess to be a christian yet you make statements and ask questions like this one.the human race is fallen,if given the chance we all would have no moral compass whatsoever,what keeps us straight is God,your thinking is that we have morals,that somehow we are good,it aint true,only God is good,our good works are as filthy rags.any good we do comes from God,love,compassion,wisdom,all come from the father.
---tom2 on 5/30/10

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cain killed able,why?hitler caused millions of deaths,the list goes on and on down thru history,so just what morals has the human race?
---tom2 on 5/30/10

I think a more intelligent answer could be given were you to elaborate your question somewhat. Could you, please?
---Cluny on 5/30/10

Alan, that is something I can't answer because you are from Great Britten.
In the US our laws come from only two places, The Bible and The US Consistition.
Many have noticed the drive the take the Bible out of our society. Then our laws will be established by the Consistition only. Since it is a human document that will cause our laws to be pure humanistic doctrine.
Can any society stand the change from God and His order? No!
Our, and any, moral code is based upon what the people believe and are taught. Don't teach God's moral code and morility is shattered.
---Elder on 5/30/10

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