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When Do We Forgive Others

Scripture tell us that if we confess our sin and repent, God will forgive us. What about when a person sins against US? Do we forgive them immediately, or do we wait, like God, for them to ASK forgiveness?

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 ---Geraldine on 6/10/10
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Linda, very good, Jesus did do all those things. Great miracles, so did many of the apostles and the 70 who were present that received the gifts. No one can ever challenge what Jesus did, can do, and will do. After all He is God. All that is written can be verified by many Scriptures and those who witnessed the miracles.
But to put yourself in the place of Christ and do greater things then He, is ludicrous.
---Mark_V. on 6/23/10

Linda--My question WAS, Do YOU have the power to forgive a person's sins against a holy God? Jesus did this...often along with His healing.

Don't give me a sermon. Just answer the question.
---Donna66 on 6/23/10

MarkV, I apologize for not explaining. My earthly father does not believe the way I do. We had prayer for him, he got better. Then failed to give God the credit. He even so much as said it wasn't God, it was the defibrillator. What happened? He got worse again. I NEVER claimed I, or any person had the power to heal. That power is always Jesus. All I am is a willing vessel. Usually, he's only going to use us in a way we believe he will use us.

I am so sorry it's so hard for some of you to believe in faith healing. Yes, definitely, salvation is most important, but why did Jesus kill the fig tree except to make a point that all who believe can do the same thing. So it must be important enough for him to point that out?
---fay on 6/23/10

Im confused, what did these hear?
Mat9:21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
Mat14:36 And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.
Luk7:10 And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.
Act5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Act19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
---TheSeg on 6/23/10

The difference the natural and the death of Jesus is that Jesus got up to mediate the will of His Father by getting in a people. My natural dad didn't rise again to get in me to execute His will. He trusted those he appointed to do it and it is subject to the laws of the land if they don't. Jesus went beyond that by living in us. Does He have a body in the heavens? Yes but He also has a body in the earth called the body of Christ who represent Him and His government. What He does, He does through us for the glory of God. The Head and the body aren't supposed to function apart from one another. Heaven is His throne and earth is His footstool and the place of His rest is in a people. Can the head say to the feet I have no need of thee?
---LindaS on 6/23/10

//...then, you say,
"When my father dies I will do his will"//

This is but one example of how you have twisted her words again. She was using my post regarding the Testator and will and how Jesus died as the Testator and rose again as the Mediator. In her response to my example, she is saying that her father has a will to be carried out when he dies and SHE will carry out that will. Neither one of us ever said people don't die. I however believe that we can finish our courses and not die prematurely. My father is dead. He was ready to go and stated that emphatically. He believed he was finished here. He did not die prematurely through sickness and went exactly the way he his sleep.
---Linda on 6/23/10

Fay, you gave a "way to go Linda" to her comments, which by the way, her comments were wrong, since no one knows the will of God for each person. Then, you say,
"When my father dies I will do his will"
Why should your father have to die? If you have the power to heal, why not heal him? Or call Linda to come over to your house and heal him. He doesn't have to die if you have that power, or if she has it, Greater power then Christ you both have said. Jesus only did some miracles, He brought Lazurus back to life, why not you, or her? You said, when he dies, expecting already the truth that at some point he is going to die, either by sickness or accident, and there is nothing you will be able to do about it.
---Mark_V. on 6/23/10

//Does He share this power with you? Have you power to forgive a person's sins against a holy God?//

Yes, He does. He is in me. He uses vessels of earth to accomplish His will in earth. It's the whole temple issue. He redeemed man to have a place to dwell. The Word goes on to say that He does NOTHING except He reveals it to His servants, the prophets. Why? Because they are SERVANTS. We are sons of God but servants to man. Why would He reveal it to His servants if He didn't have any intention of using them to bring it to pass? We are ambassadors of Christ, a people in a foreign land representing the government of the country we came from. Let him who hath an ear (not ears) to hear, let him hear.
---Linda on 6/23/10

//...don't see anywhere in the Word where it says it is God's will to heal all people all the time.//

You must not have read the gospels (He healed all), or Acts, or even know that gifts of healings and miracles are given to believers for the accomplishing of such. His compassions fail not. I could get into the instruction as to how one receives healing and walks in it, but there just simply isn't room. The people came to HEAR HIM and to be healed. Hearing (how faith comes) first, then healing.
---Linda on 6/23/10

Linda -- I agree with what you say...except for the last sentence.

yes, His word says HE puts his will into effect.. (even without your help) HE rises again
If He could do this on His own, is He helpless to accomplish lessor things without you?

//I find it extremely hard to believe that believers think that God's will and His Word are two different entities.//

NO believer that I've ever known believes that. BUT THEY DO NOT ALL interpret God's word as you do.I, for example, don't see anywhere in the Word where it says it is God's will to heal all people all the time.
In fact, if this is what Got meant to say, NO ONE would ever die.
---Donna66 on 6/23/10

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil, for God was with him.

Are you claiming this same power for yourself? Jesus was the only Son of God.
He healed AND forgave sin! Does He share this power with you? Have you power to forgive a person's sins against a holy God?

Even Jesus did not heal ALL the sick, He healed all the sick who came to Him. He never held a "healing service" or urged people to "receive their healing".
And He never rebuked anyone for seeking healing elsewhere.
---Donna66 on 6/23/10

Way to go Linda. When my earthly father dies I will participate in carrying out his will. And I will continue to carry out my Father's will for ever. What is my Father's will? My Father's Will is every Word in that book he left me.
---fay on 6/23/10

Donna, God's Word is His will. He revealed His will perfectly in Jesus who "went about doing good and healing all who were sick and oppressed of the devil." When the Testator dies, He leaves a will and that will is written down. A will is to be carried out legally. When we say "God's will", we are talking about what He had written down to be legally carried out. Jesus is not only the Testator, He is the mediator of that same will. He not only puts the will into effect with His death, He rises again to make sure that the will is enforced. I find it extremely hard to believe that believers think that God's will and His Word are two different entities.
---Linda on 6/23/10

//It is obvious you don't really read my posts. //

Now, you got it. This is not only common to MarkV. When you post your thoughts, opinions, stories, testimonies, and question, you have to know that you are not going to be read well, you are going to be picked apart by everybody here: believers, heretics, non-believers, wheat, tares. From every direction, they will come, support, and attack.

Everybody here has certain doctrine to defend, and a thus certain trigger points. Eg, if you say 'follow my commandments' the 'grace only' camp will jump. We are all at different points in our faith. God knows His own. "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
---aka.joseph on 6/23/10

Linda, now you retrack what you have been saying. Your prayers are not always answered. Great, all was a lie. I tried to move on on 6/19/10 when I answered Fay, but you draw me back in when "you said, on 6/20/10 " We have MarkV saying the gospels don't apply " you pull me back in with your lies. I never said what you quoted.
Then again I tried to move on and again you continued, by making the remark to Trav. Now you claim you gave proof to your healing of cancer, and none could be found. What, a bad back, testimonies you heard from others, putting hands on family. Where are the real miracles? Restoring new limps, healing of children's cancer, raising the dead. You claim more power then God, where are your miracles?
---Mark_V. on 6/23/10

//.. righteous talk about you and God, and how the Holy Spirit is working through you to heal everyone, and how you have been made sinless, because anyone who is of God is sinless like you.//

It is obvious you don't really read my posts. I never said any of these things. As a matter of fact, I made it clear I didn't heal everyone. Jesus didn't clear out hospitals either. I posted responses about children with cancer and several other testimonies, but you still want more proof. You know how I know you don't really read my posts?
1. You have missed most of the responses that answered to your "proofs"
2. The back testimony was my own, not someone else's.
---Linda on 6/22/10

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MarkV, man is a spirit, he has a soul, and he lives in a body. I am sinless in regards to who I am in my spirit, which is in union with Christ Himself. My soul is in the process of being renewed and restored. My body lines up as that takes place. In my heart, where God mystically joins me spirit, soul, and body, there is a cleansing going on so that what is expressed is the wholeness He died to pay for. Now, if I am a sinner, you are a liar since you don't keep your word. What you are saying is that you only keep your word if the other person follows your instructions and leaves when you want to leave.
---LindaS on 6/22/10

Linda--You got it. I was giving an example of taking a verse out of context and making it say what you want it to say. Don't just accept the verses you are given and fail to place them within the whole of scripture, as is often done with 3Jo 1:2
---Donna66 on 6/22/10

Let me ask this question again. If it is not God's will to heal certain children of His, then why go to a doctor and circumvent the will of God for your life?

Because, unlike you, I don't pretend to know know in advance what God's will is about any individual. If medical means can't cure them, then perhaps God doesn't intend them to be healed. Do you think if you take someone to the Dr, God WON'T work?
---Donna66 on 6/22/10

Linda I got your last statement to Trav very well,
You could not just be a good sister and move on, I was allowing you to escape from the questioning I was giving you, of which you could not proof one thing you have been saying, but you took my kindness for weakness, All the righteous talk about you and God, and how the Holy Spirit is working through you to heal everyone, and how you have been made sinless, because anyone who is of God is sinless like you.
You haven't cured a single person other then the one you say had a bad back. Claiming to have the power to heal, you sin for not healing the Children. You sin for not making yourself available at hospitals. You are a sinner Linda, whether you believe it or not.
---Mark_V. on 6/22/10

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When I pray on here it is so others can agree with the prayer. The Word says where 2 agree they shall have anything they ask. It is not to be seen or heard. It has absolutely nothing to do with ME & God KNOWS it. I can only deduct that anyone who gets upset about my praying on here is probably because they didn't think of it first. The body of believers have a much larger impact when one person prays out loud & everyone else agrees. Where is the agreement if everyone prays their own silent little prayer. We must come into agreement to make a change in this world. Anyone else care to pray on here I will stand in agreement with you. Let's stop bickering & come together to change this wicked world.
---fay on 6/22/10

Forgiveness is for the heart of the offended.
Repentance is for the heart of the offender.
God deals with each seperately, but between us as humans, we need to deal with it as a whole.
It is in relation to His holiness, through His justice and His Love.
Since we are not perfect, we tend to hold a grude against someone who hasn't ask for forgiveness from the offended even though the offended has forgiven or forgiven the offender even though the offender has asked.
God will recompence. All we must do is repent and forgive from the heart, the rest is up to Him. We cannot make someone repent or forgive, so where would thast leave us in relation to God?
---micha9344 on 6/22/10

"I might ask, Linda, where are your tabernacles to Moses and Elijah?"

What was that you were saying about context? Read the whole passage. As soon as Peter said that, a voice from heaven said, "This is My Son, hear ye Him." I don't need those tabernacles. I recognize that God does not dwell in temples made with man's hands. He dwells in a people. Why set up those tabernacles when I am made a tabernacle. Peter's head was in the Old Covenant and he had to be corrected by hearing a voice to let him know it wasn't brick and mortar anymore.

Let me ask this question again. If it is not God's will to heal certain children of His, then why go to a doctor and circumvent the will of God for your life?
---Linda on 6/22/10

//Psalm 12:5
For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD, I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
Psalm 119:134
Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts.//

I receive that Trav, in Jesus' name. As a matter of fact, it appears to have already manifested as there has been a "voluntary withdrawal" of the party.
---Linda on 6/22/10

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Linda, Fay was praying on line so that everyone could hear, for God to give us the same faith that she had to heal others. You know what bothered me? is that she prayed for Darline, who is a prayer warrior for many. That really bothered me. If anyone knows Scripture clearly concerning healing, she does. And to even pray on line, was saying that Darline did not have the faith to believe in the works of Christ in us. Did you miss that? I forgive her and you. There is no need to go on with this subject. I believe enough has been said. Why don't we move on to other topics that can be more edifying? Peace I leave you
---Mark_V. on 6/22/10

God does not wait for us to ask forgiveness. The provision was made already. We do not wait to be asked either. We are commanded to forgive. We confess our faults to one another that we might be healed. If you wait until someone asks your forgiveness you will be waiting forever many times and live in bittereness and unforgiveness which only hurts you
---becky on 6/22/10

Donna66, Luke 17:3 & 4 says "if" he repent, forgive him. And even the story in Matthew 18 where Jesus said if we do not forgive everyone God will not forgive us, the story was about people who had asked for forgiveness. However the very ones who nailed Jesus to the cross did not ask, yet Jesus forgave them.
---fay on 6/22/10

michael e -- Absolutely. Nowhere does scripture indicate we should WAIT for anybody to ask forgiveness, before forgiving.
---Donna66 on 6/21/10

Luke 17:3
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him, and if he repent, forgive him.
---Trav on 6/22/10

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michael e -- Absolutely. Nowhere does scripture indicate we should WAIT for anybody to ask forgiveness, before forgiving.
That is not Godlike, but child
like. We are told to forgive others as Christ has forgiven us. Evan as He was dying on the cross He prayed, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
---Donna66 on 6/21/10

Do we forgive them immediately, or do we wait, like God, for them to ASK forgiveness

Christ paid for all sins on the Cross, He didn't ask anyone to ask for forgiveness.

Stephen forgave his murders, without them asking.

If we study the word rightly divided we leave 1 John 1:9 where it belongs, and realize that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us leaving it up to us to accept it
---michael_e on 6/21/10

Faith must be exercised and doubt must be subjected to the truth of the Word of God. It is not a lack of faith that hinders reception. It is the presence of excessive doubt.
---Linda on 6/20/10

Nicely put above Linda/Fay. With faith and scripture withstand all puffers.

Psalm 12:5
For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD, I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
Psalm 119:134
Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts.
---Trav on 6/21/10

I do not believe Fay is saying "we" have more faith or that "we" are better than any other part of the body or even that "we" are the only ones right. I believe she is saying that what has been revealed to her by the Holy Spirit is real to her, just as it is to me. Although Jesus spoke of little faith, great faith, and the faith of God, when we are born again we are all given THE measure of faith. God doesn't dole out more to one than He does to another. It is the same measure. But what measure you meet, it shall be measured back to you. Faith must be exercised and doubt must be subjected to the truth of the Word of God. It is not a lack of faith that hinders reception. It is the presence of excessive doubt.
---Linda on 6/20/10

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Linda-- Where did I say none of the Bible
applies to the believer now?
I'm saying that context in Scripture matters.
That a greeting from one Christian to another, does not carry the weight of God's expressed will.

Mar 9:5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.... I might ask, Linda, where are your tabernacles to Moses and Elijah?
It's in the Bible!

I sat in a "Faith" teaching church like yours for several years. I challenge you to read all the Bible, beside just the verses that they select for you. And let HIM control the weather,( and other important stuff) not you.
---Donna66 on 6/20/10

markV, I did not say your posts were pride-full because they were aimed at me. I have defended others because of your attack on them. Your accusations of that is just your way of coping & denying. If all Scripture is good for teaching why do you continually attack it. Mark, I say this in love, satan is the one who attacks God's Word by attacking it's origin. You are right, you are the one that will pay the price and I will leave you alone. I just want you to know that I was deceived that way before also. I feared being deceived so much that I fell right into that deceit. KJV is closest to original manuscripts. It took me a few years to arrive at that conclusion & that's when I found peace & really started understanding.
---fay on 6/20/10

Fay, you see pride because I have challenge your teachings. If I had agreed with you, you would have said "Amen Mark". Lets talk of pride. "A person or thing in which pride is taken"
You have pride in believing you can heal everyone. You have pride because you presented to everyone that we lack your faith, faith that you have and we don't so you prayed on line. Also when you said Amen to Steven G, and mentioned that who were the true Children of God. I say 100% of your post were prideful. What you have and we don't. So you see Fay, you call me prideful and that is what you displayed. I do pride in the defense of the Truth. If I am wrong God will judge me, not you. I do not need a Scripture to know what Pride means.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/10

So Donna, none of the Bible applies to the believer now. We have MarkV saying the gospels don't apply and you saying the epistles and writings of John don't apply. Well, why don't we all believe whatever we want. Sounds good, doesn't it. God's word doesn't really matter since it was written so long ago, right? After all, it's not for OUR learning...or is it? And John did not write that of his own accord. He wrote under inspiration of the Holy Ghost. Is the Holy Ghost still our teacher? Is He still testifying of Christ? Is He in the believer or not? Does the Word of God change from the early church to the latter church? I marvel that you appear to think it does.
---Linda on 6/20/10

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Paul says this in Corithians, "I have written none other to you but what you have read and acknowledge, and I trust that you will acknowledge to the end." Paul, by the Holy Ghost, may have written that to the Corinthians but it is still as vital to us as it was to them because of inspiration, not writer or audience. If you do not read or acknowledge it, then no, it is not written to or for you and you can believe whatever is most convenient to what you already think.
---LindaS on 6/20/10

//"Beloved, I wish above all things that you prosper and BE IN HEALTH even as your soul prospers." Those are His wishes. It says so.//

Who said that? it wasn't God. It was the apostle John writing to an elder of another church.

John begins his letter:
3Jo 1:1 to The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.
3Jo 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
3Jo 1:3 For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee,...

Just repeating what the Word of Faith teachers tell you isn't good enough. Read, on your own, in context, verses before you quote them.
---Donna66 on 6/20/10

markV, in Prov 6:17-19 a proud look is the first thing listed of the things God hates. 99% of your posts have the look of pride. If God, who is Spirit feels hate, & love, I'm quite sure He also feels sad. And the last thing on the list of things God hates is sowing discord among brethren which is what you have been doing. Now, I'm speaking in love, Mark, & I would like to know exactly how to pray for you. What is it that has made you so pride-full. Have you gotten caught up in a cult or what? Please, in the name of Jesus enlighten me.
---fay on 6/20/10

Fay, concerning healing, I will leave you with peace and hope that somehow, you will look the passages up and learn the Truth. My hope is that you will continue walking with Christ in a worthy way. He does love you for He had mercy on you. I do not believe any more answers will be needed. Please keep praying for me, and I for you, Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/10

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Ummmm MarkV, haven't you heard that you can grieve the Holy Spirit of God whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption? You can also quench Him, despise Him, blaspheme Him, lie to Him, etc. That is God's Spirit. If we can do all those things to Him, then you can be assured it is done to the One He issued from.
---Linda on 6/19/10

"They believe that God is so loving He would never go against man's wishes...."

He never forces control. Man always has a choice. To believe something other than who He is completely is to go against His wishes, Mark. Here is what HE said, "Beloved, I wish above all things that you prosper and BE IN HEALTH even as your soul prospers." Those are His wishes. It says so. So who is going against His wishes?
---Linda on 6/19/10

Fay, I'm sorry your sad. I'm very sure I'm right because I have Scripture. God doesn't feel pain or sorrow. He is Spirit. And you are right on one thing, it is sad that not everyone believes in the Truth. It was not meant to be that way. I also feel bad knowing that many are not really saved who think they are, because they have a wrong gospel. Now that is sad. Some because of pride in their Church, in their tradition, others because they have created a god they can use as they see fit to use, and discard whenever they want. They have replaced the Truth with a lie. They believe that God is so loving He would never go against man's wishes, but they can go against God's. That is what is sad. People creating their own god who fits their thology.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/10

Obviously MarkV, you have your blinders on & are not going to see the truth. I'm not arguing with you about it. It seems useless. It's just so sad, that's all. You are so sure you are right & yet you deny the gift of His power that He died to give you. As sad as that makes me I can just imagine how He feels, & that hurts even more. The truth is I cry every time I read these blogs because it's so sad that no one believes in the whole truth. I'm so sorry Jesus. I'm so sorry. Please forgive them.
---fay on 6/18/10

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Fay, to your question on, "torturers" Matthew 18:34. From the Greek/Hebrew definitions, "basanistes" from 928, a torturer:-tormentor. From Thayers Greek Lexicon basanistes refers to
1.) one who elicits the truth by the use of the rack.
1a) an inquisiter, torturer also used of a jailer doubtless because the business of torturing was also assigned to him. Found only once in Matthew 18:34.
In the context, Jesus anology of a master and a servant the master was angry and delievered him to torturers ( jailer) until he had paid all that was due.
After the anology, Jesus says, "So My heavenly father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his traspasses"
---Mark_V. on 6/18/10

Fay 2, a little study into the passages would have given you the correct interpretation. By adding your own definition, you added the devil, illness, healing to make you theology fit what you believe. Jesus made it clear that if you do the same thing, the same will happen to you only by God. He is holy and just, God is always angry at sin, including the sins of His children (Hebrews 12:5-11) where it says in v.7 "If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons"
All of God's children get chastening. Sometimes very severely.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/10

Fay -- "Torture" is subjective...remember, there are those who consider "sleep-deprivation" torture.
Nobody called God a "tormentor" or a "torturer." The KJV uses the word "tormentors" for those who mistreated the servant who was unable to pay. They took him "by the neck" and "threw him in prison". The ungrateful servant was forced to suffer the kind of treatment he, himself, forced on the one who owed him a debt.

Sounds fair to me.
Have you never said to your kids, when they are being mean... "How would YOU like if somebody did that to YOU?"
The remainder of the passage indicates that God can be the same kind of parent.
---Donna66 on 6/18/10

Num 12:9 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them, and he departed.
Num 12:10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle, and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.

This word says God was angry with them for speaking against His anointed, & then Miriam was assaulted with leprosy. It doesn't say that God gave them leprosy. It is my opinion that God pulled his protection from them & Miriam was attacked w/the prevalent disease of that day. Today it could be cancer. This is further proof that we need to be very careful what we say. Notice, Aaron repented before it happened to him.
---fay on 6/18/10

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markV, do you realize you just called God a tormentor. God 's discipline is that he allows us to suffer the consequences of our choices.I don't think the God I know would torment anyone. Would you torture your child to teach a lesson? I don't think you would. But you might come to the point where you would allow him to suffer the consequences.

TORMENT'OR, n. He or that which torments, one who inflicts penal anguish or tortures.
1. In agriculture, an instrument for reducing a stiff soil.

TOR'MENT, n. [L. tormentum., torqueo, torno, Eng. tour, that is, from twisting, straining.
1. Extreme pain, anguish, the utmost degree of misery, either of body or mind.

TORMENT'ED, pp. Painted to extremity, teased, harassed.
---fay on 6/18/10

God was so willing to forgive.., even WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS, CHRIST DIED FOR US. (Rom 5:8) He's always ready to forgive.

I'm not convinced that he waits, with the attitude that some of us humans have, of "OK, I'm NOT going to forgive them until they prove to me they are really sorry!

Some may disagree, but I think He is more like a good parent to the Christian. The parent bears no grudge against the child who hits a sibling, plays in a forbidden area, or "forgets" to practice his music lesson.
He may discipline, express displeasure, but He never loves his child the less.
An apology may be demanded... but forgiveness is almost instantaneous.
We are to forgive others as Christ has forgiven us.
---Donna66 on 6/18/10

Donna66, your right. No one can put thoughts out of your mind. When someone has hurt you, you cannot forget it. You can forgive it and move on. Forgiveness is good for the person that forgives. He is released from the bondage of that sin against him. It helps your way of life, and allows you to move forward. When a person doesn't forgive a spouse for leaving them, they can never be a good witness for Christ.
Remember when someone hurts you, it also allows you to thank God everyday for giving you the ability to forgive.
Fay mentioned the devil in Matt. 18:34,35. There is no such things written about the devil or illiness either. Torcher, pictures severe discipline, not final condemnation or the devil. It refers to chastining by the Master.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/10

Forgive those who wronged you even they do not ask your forgiveness. at the end of the day, you will find yourself peaceful inside because you decided to forgive. Don't compare your forgiveness to the forgiveness of God because God offers the life of His son Jesus for our sins even before we accepted we have sinned. I hope you enlightened.
---mariz9553 on 6/18/10

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Fay --
//You haven't completely forgiven until you have actually forgotten//

If you have forgotten, then it's fair to say you have forgiven...or you have amnesia.

But some things are so significant,so long lasting, that they will never be forgotten. Still they CAN be forgiven...even without an apology!
Forgiveness means: The remembrance no longer causes the emotions of the original occurance(s)...even in the very presence of those who hurt you..
You may remember how you felt at the time, but you don't re-live it repeatedly.
In some cases it may take much time and prayer to get to this forgiveness. But you have are commanded to forgive as Christ has forgiven you. He will enable you to do it.
---Donna66 on 6/17/10

You haven't completely forgiven until you have actually forgotten. Someone asked me once, "You remember when _____ did ______?" I replied, "no, I don't.

That person replied, "I can't believe you don't remember that! You were more upset by it than anyone!!!" This person continued to try & jog my memory...without success.

Well, I had not had a stroke so the only explanation was that years ago I had asked God to please take all the memories away from me that had been so hurtful because I truly wanted to forgive & forget the way God does.

It's a lot easier to forgive & forget something that happened, but much harder when it continues to happen. That's where I fall short.
---fay on 6/17/10

I used to pray, "Father, I choose to forgive. You handle the emotional part." Now, I simply choose to release His flow of forgiveness in my life. After all, you can't give away something you don't have yourself.
---Linda on 6/16/10

Sometimes, the best we can do to forgive is to make an act of the will to WANT to forgive--and keep on trying.

How do we know we have actually forgiven the wrong? When we can think of it without bitterness.
---Cluny on 6/16/10

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Forgiveness means if you forgive you will be forgiven of your sins.

one should always forgive what every someone has hurt or offended you.

No matter what the circumstances or situation.

It does not mean that you walk back into the same situation you forgive but you also apply wisdom to the situation. But forgive you must!
---Carla on 6/14/10

Geraldine, If I waited for others who betrayed me, hurt me, etc., to ASK me to forgive them, I'd still be waiting.

NO ONE who has betrayed me (family members) and hurt me (friends) has ever even admitted they did something wrong, it's always my fault they say. But I TRULY forgive them from my heart.

Forgiveness releases you and me from getting bitter.....the other person still suffers the consequences of their sin if they don't repent.

Religion says, I forgive you.
Relationship with Jesus says, I walk in a state of forgivesness towards you (like Jesus did with Judas).
---Donna5535 on 6/14/10

Donna66, I believe you are correct in your summation, however you have forgotten verses 34 & 35.

"Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."

This means if we do not forgive everyone of everything God will turn us over to the tormentor(satan) to do whatever he wants(accidents or illness or financial difficulties). We do not lose our salvation!!! These are the words of Jesus. It is usually unforgiveness that keeps us in illness.
---fay on 6/14/10

Fay -- My reply WAS about forgiving others.

Matt 18:34 depends ENTIRELY on the context of Matt 18:23-33....the story of the ungrateful servant, whom the king forgave a great debt. This same servant would not, in turn, forgive another man a small amount, but had him vengefully punished.

Without this context we have no explanation for The MASTER's anger. We already know that GOD does NOT demand we "deserve" our own forgiveness.(otherwise, we would still be in our sins.)
Forgiving others should come AS A RESULT of God's mercy PREVIOUSLY shown us, not His arbitrary demand. Eph 4:32 says And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you
---Donna66 on 6/13/10

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Donna66, the question was about forgiving others. Explain your version of Matthew 18:35.
---fay on 6/13/10

Fay --If we do not forgive others from our hearts for EVERYTHING God will not forgive us

Does this mean that we can earn forgiveness from God by forgiving others? NO. We can do nothing to earn God's forgiveness. Even our best efforts are not enough. It's not a case of God saying "you forgive, then I'll forgive"

God does not withhold forgiveness from us until He is sure we are as miserable as our sin deserves.. From the cross He said: (Luk 23:34)... Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. Those who crucified Him were far from repentant.

Since He has forgiven US so freely, we should be ready to forgive anybody without requiring them to show they are worthy of forgiveness.
---Donna66 on 6/13/10

Matthew 18:35 If we do not forgive others from our hearts for EVERYTHING God will not forgive us. It certainly is not always easy but it is a decision we must make. Even when our hearts hurt.
---fay on 6/12/10

Donna66 on 6/11/10 Scripture tells us to forgive others as Christ has forgiven us.

Totally right, out of love Christ has already forgiven us, Out of love(not because we have to) we forgive others
---michael_e on 6/12/10

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The parable of (Matthew 18:21-35) is all about the importance of forgiveness of sin.
Jesus taught us in the Lords Prayer, that God will not forgive us if we do not forgive others.
Why is forgiveness of sin important?
Its because unforgiven sin, is that which separates us from God.
(Isaiah 59:2)
But your iniquities have separated you from your God, your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
---David on 6/12/10

Scripture tells us to forgive others as Christ has forgiven us.

What I DON'T see in Scripture is this:
Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you (when they ask forgiveness)
Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you (if they apologize first)
How often to forgive?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven (as long as they promise to do better)

Does God want us to be LESS willing to forgive than He is? It seems to me, because of Christ's sacrifice, God's forgivness is pretty unconditional.
---Donna66 on 6/11/10

While Jesus was on the cross, He desired for us to be forgiven. By desiring this in His heart, He already forgave us, way back then, on the cross. And while people were still so busy hating and torturing and badmouthing and murdering God's own Son, He *prayed*, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34) And then was when one criminal hanging next to Jesus stood up for Him and asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus comes in His kingdom (Luke 23:34-43). But doesn't Matthew 27:44 say *both* "robbers who were crucified with Him" were badmouthing Jesus? I'd say that prayer of forgiveness got one of them changed, right there on the cross. And we have this forgiveness while we live this for others (c:
---Bill_bila5659 on 6/11/10

---aka.joseph on 6/11/10 I was so pleased to read your story about cutting the grass and your forgiveness of the nonpayer. God bless you.
---mima on 6/11/10

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We should forgive others as quickly as we want God to forgive us.
---Leon on 6/11/10

Ephesians 4:26 be you angry,and sin not,don't let the sun go down upon your wrath. Matthew 6:14 For if we forgive men their trespasses,your Heavenly Father will also forgive you. Mark 11:25 And when you stand praying,forgive,and if you have ought against any:that your Father which is also in heaven,may forgive your tresspasses. Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness,and wrath and anger,and clamour,and evil speaking,be put away from you wih all malice. Those verses indicate we should be quick to forgive whether the person asks or not as in Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves,if your brother trespass against you,rebuke him,and if he repent forgive him.,because if we don't God won't forgive us Matthew 6:15.
---Darlene_1 on 6/11/10

Two years ago, I agreed with a neighbor to cut his yard for $30/cut when needed. He paid me for the first cut, but not for the second. I really needed the money at that time, but he kept not paying me. As soon as I recognized that he was not going to pay me, I forgave his debt without him knowing and cut his grass again for his service as a police officer. Then, I moved.

I was still in need of money, but I was in no need to collect on a debt that was already paid and carry a burden that was already lifted.

//The New Covenant doesn't tell us to forgive so we can be forgiven. It tells us to forgive as God, for Christ's sake, has forgiven us.// ---Linda on 6/11/10
---aka.joseph on 6/11/10

In case you've not heard of the Lord's Prayer, it says, "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."

In other words, if we expect God to forgive us immediately, we must forgive others immediately.
---Cluny on 6/11/10

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Now pay attention to this forgiveness thing. God tells me in my case I have a tendency to forgive too quickly and forgetting so therefore I run a chance of being treated not so nice by others over and over again. So, it's better not to work so hard and wait on God. {I couldn't keep a grudge very easily when I was lost]. Our job is to keep going. Any kind of love, forgiveness, forgetting, is a big fake if it is not arising out from the LIVING GOD. God is on the side of His chosen people. That's it.
---catherine on 6/11/10

Some people never ask for forgiveness. We still must forgive the offender.
---Trish9863 on 6/11/10

Geraldine, in the words of Jesus, "If your 'brother' (Your fellowman) sins against you, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, 'I repent,' you shall forgive him." Luk 17:3,4
Concerning those who will not ask, or has not asked. We are instructed to "Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, 'even as God in Christ forgave you." Eph 4:31,32
Ideally, we are to forgive if we have anything against anyone, without conditions. Why? That we may be forgiven of our Father of our trespasses, known or not.
---joseph on 6/10/10

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