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Believe Just For Heaven

If the only reason you believe is just in case heaven does exist, wouldn't God realize it is not a true belief? Why on Earth would a just God punish someone for not believing?

Moderator - That isn't a salvation experience or lifestyle, therefore that isn't a Christian.

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 ---Donna5535 on 6/22/10
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Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

One of the reason given in the bible for serving God is avoiding hell ( or going into heaven) People come to God for all different reason. It is only with time that we learn to love God. ANyone coming to god and claims love for God on day one, i am suspicious of them.

1 John can he love God whom he hath not seen?
---francis on 6/30/10

The Moderator is right. If a person is believing or affirming Jesus only because heaven might exist, then their belief is immature and not complete. For the word "believe" in the scripture many times means "obey", and so it is for salvation: "that all in who obey him be not abandoned, but have life eternal. Whom obeying to the Son has everlasting life: whom disobeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on that one." Jn.3:16,18.
---Eloy on 6/28/10

MarkV, you have control of this site & you will pay the penalty someday for your lying about hermeneutics being their own religion & for covering up your lie.

To everyone else, including moderators, etc. I have revealed the truth about MarkV's "religion". There comes a time when everyone must see the truth & the truth here is that this site is overrun by MarkV's religion which is full of unbelief. Even Jesus did not many mighty works in certain areas because of the unbelief. Mat 13:58 So, this is where I shake the dust from my feet as a testimony against your unbelief. Mat 10:14, Mrk 6:11, Lk 9:5.
---fay on 6/28/10

It isn't God's fault if one doesn't believe in him. A person must have faith that there is a God before they can believe in heaven. God has revealed himself to her but she hasn't looked through her spiritual eyes to see him. Our old nature won't let us see what God needs to reveal to us so, we miss alot of the signs God shows/tells us.
---Rebecca_D on 6/25/10

-- Cluny :

Brother, As the Brethren confess their faults one to another, we pray one for another that we may be Healed(James 5:15-16).....and I've effectually prayed that your Faith will make room for Prov.2:1-6 and be willing to exercise it in order to share a testimony with others of receiving the Understanding of the Lord's spiritual blessings, you're crying out for in you last post !!!

Grace Unto You & Peace Be Multiplied
---Shawn.M.T. on 6/25/10

Brother Shawn, I am so happy to see you again on the blogs. It is a pleasure to read your words and what God has revealed to you. I hope my indorsement doesn't hurt you when answering, as it does some times to others, but when I saw you answering this morning I felt something inside that gave me joy. Thanks for coming back for the glory of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 6/25/10

|| What you only JUST KNOW, I've exercised & made room for in my life.||

Why, thank you, ShawnMT. I'm quite aware of my own shortcomings.

Will you please pray for me that I will become as spiritual as you are?
---Cluny on 6/24/10

-- Cluny :

Brother, I'm sharing the Lord's Word through testimony(Rev.12:11). What you only JUST KNOW, I've exercised & made room for in my life.

As in Prov. 2:1-6 Those who receive the Lord's Word and keep His Commandments so they're inclining their ear unto Wisdom, and apply their Hearts to Understanding by lifting up their voice & crying out after His Knowledge, will seek & search for it as for hidden treasures. Then shall they Understand the fear of the LORD who gives Wisdom : out of His Mouth cometh Knowledge & Understanding.

Cluny, If you're claiming YOU haven't received the Understanding which has come out of the Lord's Mouth, then you need to apply your heart as I've shared with this lady !!!
---ShawnM.T. on 6/23/10

I am very sorry that I don't have the time to look up Scripture, but just off the top of my head, here goes. HE CHOOSES. This may seem harsh to some, however, none of us deserves heaven. This is the way God sees it. He sees the heart of man, how corrupt it is. THE BLOOD.
---catherine on 6/23/10

I don't claim to fathom how God works in the life of a Christian.
---Cluny on 6/23/10

Cluny, the bible does give us hints about how God works in the life of a Christian.

1) Not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit saith the Lord.

2)He works/causes ALL things to work together to them that love Him, to those that are called according to His will. He does this by His Spirit.

3) All of His ways are perfect.

4) My ways are not your ways, my thoughts not your thoughts, my ways are higher than your ways, my thoughts are higher than yours.

5)I will counsel you with mine eye upon you.

6)He sent forth His word and Heals us.

He draws us by His Spirit. He changes us by His word/His Spirit.
---Donna5535 on 6/23/10

You are correct cluny. Faith is as powerful as a loaded gun. But what good does a loaded gun do us if we don't pull it out & use it. Just having it won't cut it. If we don't use it we lose it. And if we wait to use it, it becomes rusty & needs to be oiled again.And Please don't trade your gun in for a model without a trigger. Put it to use against this relentless enemy who is constantly roaming around like a lion, seeking whom he may devour. No one is safe without that loaded gun. Rm 14:23
---fay on 6/23/10

Donna5335-- I wasn't attempting to respond to all the questions she had in her heart. Only one she expressly a springboard for furher discussion.
---Donna66 on 6/23/10

The priest made two interesting points in his sermon Sunday:

Faith is a gift of God--but we have to make room for it and be willing to exercise it.

It's useless to say, "If I could understand, I would have faith." That has it backwards.
---Cluny on 6/23/10

\\"Do any of us really understand?" Cluny ask... Those who walk in fear of the Lord according to His Purpose will come to Understand!!!\\

Are you claiming YOU understand, Shawn?

I don't claim to fathom how God works in the life of a Christian.

I just know He does.
---Cluny on 6/23/10

To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, Departure from evil is Understanding... While fear of the Lord is Wisdom which is the principal thing that we're to get. But with all our getting we're to get Understanding.

Our spiritual journeys is about departing from evil to share & spread the Understanding of God's Word. "Do any of us really understand?" Cluny ask... Those who walk in fear of the Lord according to His Purpose will come to Understand!!!

When this lady believes with an open heart to accept the Light of God's Love, she'll be able to perceive/receive the good in all things from the Lord, which is incomprehensible without God's Love(John 1:5, 1John 4:16-19). Only then will she know God as 'Just'.
---Shawn.M.T. on 6/23/10

\\It's just that they do not understand the calling according to His Purpose of us who Love Him!!!
---Shawn.M.T on 6/22/10\\

Do any of us, really understand?
---Cluny on 6/22/10

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Donna, God knows her seeking heart and He will respond to that. He did mine. Faith requires one to believe before he/she has evidence but the Holy Spirit is obviously working to convict her of sin, because she believes not on Him and of judgment because the prince of this world is judged. God will meet her where she is and reveal Himself in a way she is able to receive. God bless you for your heart for her.
---Linda on 6/22/10

-- Donna5535 :

Sister, If a person knows of God, then by definition God has been revealed to them. She just hasn't accepted & received the Lord's Love yet!!

It's like the difference between knowing/being forgiven & receiving that forgiveness.

People's thoughts are still conformed to the world if they think that 'God punishes someone for not believing'. We who Love God know He uses all things for the good of those who Love Him : Rom.8:28. If a person doesn't believe with an open heart to accept His Love, how do they expect to receive anything good from God that doesn't seem like punishment.

It's not that God is unjust. It's just that they do not understand the calling according to His Purpose of us who Love Him!!!
---Shawn.M.T on 6/22/10

I think Linda and Fay are getting the point of what this woman is saying....Donna66, I know God would realize it, that's not quite what this woman is asking me....

Linda's scriptures are perfect, but Linda she said she can't believe scriptures because God isn't real to her yet. Fay, thanks for that prayer, I've got to keep praying for her.

There is a scripture that Jesus said, "Unless the Father draws them, they cannot come unto me." Did I get that right? Then HOW would this woman get saved if God revealing Himself to her?
---Donna5535 on 6/22/10

All of us have to start SOMEWHERE on our spiritual journeys.

There's a poem--I think by John of the Cross, set to music by Jane Marshall, and a standard anthem in many Protestant choirs.

My God, I love Thee,
Not because I hope for heaven thereby,
Nor yet that those who love Thee not
Must die eternally......

And after several more verses, it ends,

But because Thou art my Eternal King.
---Cluny on 6/22/10

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Dear Father in heaven, I ask you to become so real to this woman in Donna5535's life that she can never deny you. Draw her to you Lord Jesus. Become that solid foundation that she's been looking for. Fill her with your presence, Your Holy Fire from heaven. Fill her with your healing Presence & melt every defense in her heart. Draw her close to You. Never let her go. We give her to You now. Work Your Will in her life right now , Lord & love her through & through. Give Donna the perfect response. Put Your Words in her mouth & fill her with every gift of Your Spirit. Bless her beyond measure. AMEN & AMEN!!!
---fay on 6/22/10

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness,

19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shewed it unto them.

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:

21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

That should help you, Donna. Both the creation and the conscience bear witness to the Creator.
---Linda on 6/22/10

If the only reason you believe is just in case heaven does exist, wouldn't God realize it is not a true belief?

Yes. He would.
That kind of "belief" won't get you to Heaven or anywhere else.
God wants you to know Him better than that!
He's given you the Bible so you can.
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the best books to start with.
---Donna66 on 6/22/10

out of His mercy and our lack of ability to see the Trurh, we get to see Him a little out of time. otherwise, we would drop down on the spot from seeing Him in all His glory.

Also, He is not a microwave God. Put him in for three minutes and ding!...a full meal.
---aka.joseph on 6/22/10

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Moderator and others, what this woman is really saying is:
Why on Earth would a just God punish someone for not believing? Sounds kind of mean to me. Imagine intentionally not revealing yourself to someone and then punishing them for not believing in you. How mean! No ... I don't believe a just God would do that ... and if God isn't just, well, we're doomed anyway.

She's saying that God hasn't revealed Himself to her, so how can she believe in Him???? Please help me with a response back to her. Thank you.
---Donna5535 on 6/22/10

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