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Repentance For Salvation

Is repentance necessary for Salvation?
Yes or no?

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 ---David on 8/16/10
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I am loving the great conversations going on here.
Awesome posts Micha, Kath, JackB, and Shawn!

Amen God knows who will be saved.
Amen God does not make men do evil, they choose it.
Amen God does the drawing and knows who will accept his words of truth.
Amen we are supposed to preach the gospel so that all can hear and no man has an excuse when judgement day comes.
Amen God predestined the saved to be conformed to the image of Christ.

I tell you I pray for revival and that men be saved just like on the day of pentecost.
---ginger on 8/27/10

Shawn, I think you and I come closer to agreeing on the matter than I do with Mark.

There just seems to be some confusion on how we define certain words.

---JackB on 8/26/10

JackB and Ginger. One thing I know, when we are saved we are compelled with the passion to proclaim the Gospel. WE can't help it. WE proclaim the risen Christ IN US. This is OUR Testamony to the lost. IN THAT God uses us and brings us to lost souls. The FIRST thing Paul did after he was saved is go to the synagogue and proclaim Jesus Christ is LORD. On the day of Pentecost..what happened. ALL the Apostles TESTIFIED of Christ. You see, THIS is teh evidence one is SAVED.

MArkV sows no such evidence, but quite the opposite! He's rather spend endless hours and days and months and years ARGUING about salvation, rather than OBEY IT and proclaiming it!!!!
---kathr4453 on 8/26/10

Im glad you are happy for me as Im happy for you.

I believe part of what you say..that God knows who will be saved.
I just don't think God does the choosing.
I believe God goes to those he knows who will accept him. The ones he knows will choose him.
Especially since he knows all already.
So, what I believe is slightly different than what you believe.
I happen to love both Kath and JackB styles. They complement and back each other up. Each fills in the gaps. Brother have an open mind and listen. You mat find a deeper love for God that you never knew.
---ginger on 8/26/10

-- JackB :

Brother, I Hope you come to Understand the use of preplanned is the same as premeditated. They're NOT CERTAIN to occur... which you earlier mixing-up & confusing for the Destiny of God's Foreknowledge which is Certain to occur.

We're of One Accord God did not lead us into sin and death... God Foreknew we would be tempted and Fall B4 He Created us but He gave us the power to do what He asked, we on our own just Choice what God already Foreknew... and as you stated earlier just b/c God Foreknows doesn't mean He made you do it, nor did God tempt man just b/c the Destiny of His Foreknowledge was Certain to occur since B4 Creation.

Amen~Micha~Amen, We do not know who will be Saved.
---Shawn.M.T on 8/25/10

Go knows whom will be saved.
We do not know who will be saved.
We are told to preach the gospel to all and always have a reason for the hope that is within us.
Plant, water, and let God give the increase.
The soil is unknown to us, but known to God.
---micha9344 on 8/25/10

I realize that at times I have lost my temper and said things which I shouldnt have, being judgemental and the likes. For that I do apologize and ask your forgiveness.

As a brother in Christ, I do love you. I just HATE the doctrine you defend. It is insulting to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and degrades his Holy nature.

Is your assurance (by this doctrine )really worth risking the souls of billions by teaching them that God only wants to save a few people and they may not be included?

What does it hurt for men to believe God loves them? Do you comfort a terminal cancer patient or rub his nose in the fact that when he dies its gonna hurt like hell?

Your doctrine lacks compassion.
---JackB on 8/25/10

And you never rebutted on all those passages I gave, all you did was complain how terrible I am - MarkV

The doctrine is terrible Mark! Not you. You were desperate for an answer and this other church lured you in with the promise of eternal security based on predestination of certain individuals.

However, their doctrine changes the very nature of God from one which is Holy and Loving and delights in forgiveness and mercy into one that inflicts pain and death to certain people for his own good pleasure!

Push a man into the street so that he gets hit by a bus, then ask him if he loves you :/

God did not lead us into sin and death! Thats against His nature. He abhors evil.
---JackB on 8/25/10

Jack, I would like to say it was nice sharing Scripture with you, but all I saw was two of them and so far out of context that they were useless to what we were talking about. And you never rebutted on all those passages I gave, all you did was complain how terrible I am. peace I leave you. I cannot answer to opinions. If you ever want to discuss Scripture I will be here.
---MarkV. on 8/25/10

Ginger, there is nothing wrong agreeing with Jack and Kathr. I don't think that changes Scripture are changes the power of God one Ioda. If the Truth was depended upon you, kathr or Jack, then I would be very worried for my eternal life, but I depend upon God. I am happy for you that you are happy.
---MarkV. on 8/24/10

I understand that if you know the Truth, it is because the Holy Spirit has revealed it to you - MarkV

I havent seen a single person here who disagrees with that truth!

The problem is that you believe the Holy Ghost only reveals the truth to certain people. It goes directly against scripture which states and God wants all men to come to the truth and Jesus said when He is lifted up He will draw all men to himself.

The Holy Ghost speaks what He hears of Christ. He glorifies the Son, and the Son glorifies the Father. They are ONE! Not divided!
John 16:12-15
---JackB on 8/24/10

God did preplan to send Christ, Shawn. It was to save us because God KNEW we would disobey him with the free will He gave us.

The flip side is to believe that God preplanned to tempt us into sin (using satan) and preplanned to send Christ to save only a few of us.

That means God of tempted man with sin. He cannot be tempted with evil! Neither does He tempt! (James 1:13)

Can God do whatever he likes? YES
Does He? NO! He only does what is according to His HOLY nature!

IF you honestly think giving free will to a creation with only the power of muscle and mind in any way threatens the sovereign reign of God Almighty, do tell the Lord that.
He would probably get a good laugh out of it.
---JackB on 8/24/10

Ginger, I will take your advise. How often these threads bust out into arguments always started by someone not even participating. ALL one has to do is look and see where it comes off track. I do wish the moderators would keep these un-christ like comments out and let the discussion of the subject continue.

Ginger, May God bless you and Keep you always in His Word, and always pray the Lord show you at lest 2 or 3 scriptures to back know everything has a witness to truth.

We all need to be good Bereans and check to make sure what anyone is saying is IN SCRIPTURE!

The ONLY Glory that Brings God Glory is to LIFT UP JESUS CHRIST. Jesus said If I be lifted up I WILL DRAW all men unto me!!! We lift up Calvary!!!
---kathr4453 on 8/24/10

-- JackB :

Those who put their faith in Him are predestined to be conformed to His image.--JackB

Brother, Amen ~ Although in your example of the 'Fire', you're mixing-up & confusing premeditation for predestination!!!

Predestination refers to something man JackB cannot say about his own plans, which is they WILL occur in the Future... Like the Foreknowledge of God's Word which will never return to Him Void b/c God Predestined All of His Foreknowledge and not just that of Christ & those who put Faith in Christ.

BTW~You stated Rom.10:14 doesn't sound like predestination to you... BUT you Rightly shared that Christ was Predestined, who is God's Word and Ministered it to be Heard :-/ Hum...
---ShawnM.T. on 8/24/10

JackB, How often many here have brought to MarkVs attention FAITH comes by Hearing the Word of God. Yet we are all called heretics and told WE are not saved because we believed. Here is a case of MarkV refuting clear scripture. The WORD of God is living and powerful
Lets remember the APOSTLES testified CHRIST ROSE from the dead. THIS is what they preached. Because they WITNESSED it,THEY were the messengers who brought the Gospel to the world. Faith is believing what THEY saw!!! HE'S ALIVE!!!! Hes the Christ /Messiah prophesied by the prophets. HE's the ONE!!!
There's faith, and faith without works ONLY in scripture. NO scripture says God GIVES saving faith to his elect!!!! NOWHERE!
JackB I'll see you in Heaven,))!!
---kathr4453 on 8/24/10


I just want to say that I have been reading your posts for a very long time and every one I have seen lines up with God true word.
The REAL OSAS, not the easy believism some like to pass off here, and on this too. I know you aren't JackB. You writing styles are clearly not the same, etc. Your teaching styles are different.

I will say I don't think Bob is MarkV either.
The thing is that sometimes he does get it right. Just not here.
My suggestion is to not bother saying he is someone else and keep telling what God tells you to say. The same to JackB. I really like what you guys are saying here.
---ginger on 8/24/10

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Are we allowed to post email addresses here?
---JackB on 8/24/10

Romans 10:14

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

According to scripture, if men dont HEAR from a preacher or one spreading the gospel message from the word, they will never know to CALL on the name of the Lord.

That doesnt sound like predestination to me. I mean its right there!

Kathr, we have to meet and laugh about this :D
---JackB on 8/24/10

God brings faith to the Elect. The others, like you, hear the Word and reject it, because you have no faith to believe. ---MarkV. on 8/24/10

Interestingly MarkV believes himself to BE God....accusing everyone who disagrees with him as rejecting God's word. MarkV you MAKE UP things not found in scripture. Yes I REJECT YOUR doctrine...and NO you are NOT GOD!!!

FAITH comes by HEARING . Hearing God's WORD through those who PREACH, those called by GOD empowered by the Holy Spirit to bring truth. YOU have NO POWER MarkV...

AND FYI OT Saints were NOT conformed to Christ's DEATH..Phil 3!!! He hadn't died yet!!
---kathr4453 on 8/24/10

Kathr/Jack? ????

Wow Mark I must say I am surprised.

If you listened to the Holy Ghost and knew his truth as much as you claim, you would clearly hear Him telling you right now that Kathr and I are not the same person.

That fact that you so easily agreed with Bob on the matter makes me wonder if Kathr has indeed spoken truth about you making different names to agree with yourself.

About 2 month ago a lady blogger (whos name I cant recall) did the same thing and she directedly addressed YOU concerning my 'secret identity' as Kathr.

This whole thing has gotten ridiculous.

Mark, I truly hope that you havent done such a thing.
---JackB on 8/24/10

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Mark, if the same spirit that taught you the things you believe about scripture is the same spirit that tells you Kathr and I are the same person, that is absolute proof that this spirit of NOT of God. It is NOT the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost does not lie. The things you state about us are a lie!

You are in my prayers.
---JackB on 8/24/10

Kathr/Jack, you again speak lies to cover yourself. I am not Bob, I do not need to hide as you have when I caught you. I speak and do not care for my glory as you do. I do not mind people disagreeing. I understand that if you know the Truth, it is because the Holy Spirit has revealed it to you. If you don't it is because He hasn't. I understand the Words of Jesus In John 10:25-27. You, on the other hand do not. That is why you make a mockery of His Word. Implying all people hear the Truth of Christ with faith before they are His sheep. And you go so far to say, they can resist Christ. Jesus said those who hear already belong to Him, and they follow Him. They do not resist.
---MarkV. on 8/24/10

I trust God that JackB is not Kath.

And I still agree with both of them.

God knowing each and everything that will happen does NOT mean he either caused it or ordained it. He knows ALL mens choices but he certainly does NOT always agree with them nor does he make it for them. He does know what will happen with each choice we make.

God is NOT the author of sin nor confusion.

He says WE reap what WE sow.

This tells me that he knows the choices we make and the outcome of the choices but does not MAKE the choices for us.
Its Christ thats predestined, those who accept to be conformed to Christ image.
---ginger on 8/24/10

Kathr/Jack, you said,
"JackB, didn't you know according to MarkV's theology GOD Himself shows up for the elect."
God brings faith to the Elect. The others, like you, hear the Word and reject it, because you have no faith to believe. Jesus said,
"I told you, and you do not believe. The Works that I do in My Fathers's name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me"
All others hear God's Word and do not believe, because only the Elect hear and believe. Faith comes from hearing, hearing the Word of God. And only those who are His Elect hear because they are His sheep.
---MarkV. on 8/24/10

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This is the second time someone has accused me of being Kathr. I find it very amusing that we think so much alike I am considered your second voice.

It also helps me to realize which people on these blogs arent as in touch with the Lord as they believe, otherwise they would clearly hear his voice telling them they are wrong in their assumption.
---JackB on 8/24/10

God Foreknows our Choices and Predestined that Foreknowledge of man and all His Creation. - ShawnMT

Predestined that Foreknowledge?

If you know your neighbors house will catch on fire tomorrow night, that is foreknowledge.

If you plan on setting their house on fire tomorrow night, that is predestination.

Just because someone has foreknowledge of an event doesnt mean they are making it happen themselves.

John isnt the cause of the events of Revelation simply because he knew about them.

God foreknew that when he created us, we would be tempted and fall. Therefore, he predestined Christ to come into the world. Those who put their faith in Him are predestined to be conformed to His image.
---JackB on 8/24/10

Absolutely. His Blood is what makes you feel so clean inside, as if you had never, ever, done anything wrong in your whole life....To stay on the right side of God you must on a regular bases, ask Him to forgive you of all your sins and those that you know nothing about....It's never a one-tme deal. Come on.
---catherine on 8/24/10

Bob, sorry I am not JackB and JackB is not me.

Bob is a trouble maker here, who really is MarkV. MarkV is the one coming here under different names...and hates anyone who agrees with anything I say. He calls heritics anyone who disagrees with Calvinism. It's really sicking!

Anyway Ginger, Scripture states HOW will they HEAR without a beautiful are the feet of those who preach the Good News=GOSPEL.

Isn't it funny that those who disagree with Calvinism's cult doctrine all are accused of being me?? Really!
---kathr4453 on 8/24/10

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Ginger, the reason you agree with Kathr and Jack is because Kathr is Jack. All this time it has been Jack answering against calvinism and that is why you did not see Kathr, now that Jack has made all those statements she needs Kathr to agree with her to make it look as if there is two persons. Same trick she's done before and was caught doing twice now.
---Bob on 8/23/10

Kath and JackB, I agree with both of you.
---ginger on 8/23/10

-- Ginger :

Sister, I Believe God's Foreknowledge of our choices(not pre-picking for us but Foreknown) was Predestined into Creation. You believe God just Predestined Christ and only had Foreknowledge of our freewill choices... It almost seems like we're sharing the same thing since in the end it's all going to happen EXACTLY as God has Foreknown!!!

I see us as being in One Accord... b/c it's not like man is able to choose something not Foreknown by God.

Ginger, We know it's the Father's Will that Christ should Lose Nothing of all God has given Him and that through the Repentance of choosing Life in Christ calls for man to takes on God's Will, and God Foreknows when this is Truly going to happen.
---Shawn.M.T. on 8/23/10

Jack B, the context of Acts 7:51 you didn't read, if you had you would know they were not resisting God, but the messengers of God that brought His Word. Jesus sermon in Matthew 23:13-39 gives the reasons.

JackB, didn't you know according to MarkV's theology GOD Himself shows up for the elect. All else HEAR the Gospel through messengers. Now lets see, WHO preached on the day of Pentecost? GOD Himself where thousands were saved and added to the CHURCH, or messengers AKA God's Apostles, and now US His Body?

So when Paul preached and people got saved, was Paul actually GOD? or a messenger?
---kathr4453 on 8/23/10

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if you had read the Bible,(again Mark? really?) you would know that God permited Adam to fall into sin... - MarkV

Exactly! He gave Adam and Eve the POWER TO CHOOSE whom they would obey.

Your attempts to label me as a heretic who has a problem with Gods sovereign will is getting old. My problem isnt Gods sovereignty. Its His sovereignty as YOU see it. You see His sovereign will to give his creations free will as His weakness. It is NOT! It seems youre the one with a problem with how He does things.

Children, Mark, also say "The devil made me do it!" in an attempt to remove themselves from the consequences of THEIR wrong decision.

Do mature men say "Gods made me do it!"?
---JackB on 8/23/10

YES, If you believe repentance is a change of mind or direction.

NO, If you believe repentance is begging and pleading.
---michael_e on 8/23/10

Jack B, the context of Acts 7:51 you didn't read, if you had you would know they were not resisting God, but the messengers of God that brought His Word. Jesus sermon in Matthew 23:13-39 gives the reasons.
"Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell. Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city."
You too resist the Word just as they did. You who claim to be save. They didn't, they just killed the messengers.
---MarkV. on 8/23/10

Jack B 2:
if you had read the Bible, you would know that God permited Adam to fall into sin. God did not make him sin. If God wanted to protect him from sinning, He could have surrounded him with Angels, given him the Holy Spirit and sealed him unto salvation, He could have killed the serpent with His power, and Eve would have never sinned. He could have done many things but didn't. My grand daughter understands such things, why don't you?
Adam sinned and God put the curse on man. "Therefore as sin came into the world through one man Adam, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned." Romans 5:12.
---MarkV. on 8/23/10

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Why are you trying to twist this Knowledge & play with words in order to call God a tempter and accuse the Brethren?
---ShawnM.T. on 8/22/10

I am not. You have a fellow Calvinist in these blogs that claims such things. That God withheld grace from Adam and Eve that would have undoubtable kept them from sinning.

Not giving your creation the power to do what you ask is the SAME THING as leading them into disobedience. That is why I gave James 1 as a reference.

God would be unjust to condemn us for something He commands us to do IF He doesnt give us the power to do it. How can the creation have anything MORE than what we are made with?

Are we supposed to magically pull the power of out of our rear ends?
---JackB on 8/23/10

In other words God's power can be defeated, when you gave Acts 7:51. By not reading the context and looking up the words, you concluded God can be defeated- MarkV

God is not "defeated" when men resist the Holy Ghost. He lets them go their own way, but the end of that way is death! Death is for the disobedient! Life for the obedient!

If all men have no power against Gods plan for their lives, then we dont have the power to DISOBEY it.

The very doctrine you believe the Bible teaches that guarantees you eternal life is the same one that takes away a JUST reason for man to be condemned in the first place.
In that reality, we have disobeyed nothing God has willed. Why then is God angry?
---JackB on 8/23/10

To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?

Brethren, Is repentance necessary for Salvation?... YES ~ And it's according to the Predestined Foreknowledge of God's Word!!!

--- JackB :

God withheld the ability for Adam and Eve to resist the temptation of the serpent... right? You have just accused God of tempting us.--JackB

Brother, You're the only one making these accusations about God. God never Foresaw Adam & Eve with the ability to resist, so how could He withhold it from them!!!

JackB, God Foreknows our Choices and Predestined that Foreknowledge of man and all His Creation. Why are you trying to twist this Knowledge & play with words in order to call God a tempter and accuse the Brethren?
---ShawnM.T. on 8/22/10

There are those who are the lost-Christ was sent for-Mat 15:24
and there are those who weren't-lost.

Those that are chosen-Now-have a predestine life in flesh-they still stand fast without waiver.(God is no respect for person)
Those that are not---must chose.

Many are scattered-don't even know who they are-but God knows each by name.
Whether they were for him or against him.

In flesh-is temperary with an option for some to chose.
I believe the remnant(elect) already have chosen and still support God without waiver.
Those who were first-will be last Mat 19,20
Those that are called-Those that are chosen-
mat 19:16-,20:16-,22:14, Rev 17:14
Jer1:5,Eph 1:4, Ez 18:4,Rom 9
---char on 8/22/10

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No man has turned from sin. We must repent TOWARDS GOD AND HE WILL SET YOU FREE FROM SIN.
Turning to God(repentance) IS nessesary for salvation.
---duane on 8/22/10

Predestination is taught in scripture... just not your version of it.

God withheld the ability for Adam and Eve to resist the temptation of the serpent? Really? This is why He cursed the serpent and man and woman, right? You have just accused God of tempting us into sin.

James 1:13-16

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

God is not the temptor. Youve got Him and satan backwards!
---JackB on 8/22/10

Jack B, you said,
"Its not easy for a man to let go of predestination when he is basing the perseverance of his soul on it."
You are right. My faith is in God. Not in myself. As long as my faith is in Christ, I cannot fail. Because God will sustain me. I know I cannot sustain myself, I fail, but God never fails. Jesus said He would provide for me with all spiritual gifts as I wait, and I believe it, that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord" 1 Cor. 1:7-9.
---MarkV. on 8/22/10

Jack B 2:
Those passages are explicit, they cannot be twisted unless you give it your best shot. Who called me into a fellowship with Christ? God, John 6:44, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day"
And what did He promise me? He promised to sustain me, and while I wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, He will provide all spiritual gifts necessary for me to make it. And I will be found guiltless on that day. Now you can twist that as you can, but it will not change the Word of God.
---MarkV. on 8/22/10

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Its not easy for a man to let go of predestination when he is basing the perseverance of his soul on it.

If predestination of "individuals" (rather than the church of Christ) is shattered then most of TULIP comes crashing down.

I went thru a phase where I was scared to question my church leaders as well. But I dont want to be judged for what THEY believe. God will hold ME accountable for my own heart.

No doubt most of the people who believe such a doctrine had the best intentions at heart and do love God, but they seek security in something that is only 'proven by scripture' by twisting certain verses and even changing the meanings of words that dont fit and cause them a great deal of worry.
---JackB on 8/21/10

Before the death and resurrection, the law exposed what sin was.The action was obedience performing the statute and ordinances. But now-In-Christ, the Holy Spirit conficts you of your sin, and with your repentance, remission is made. When Confessing your weakness---In Gods' strenght(Holy Spirit and Word)by the renewing of you mind-you are changed. Fruit is produces-you turn away from sin-becoming a new man-In-Christ.

You die to your sin-and resurrect to a new life.
Your action support what you believe. The Holy Spirit in you-in agreement of the mind renewed with the Word of God-walks you through your salvation-line upon line...percept upon percept...

This is the power of the resurrection-within you-
He gets All Glory.
---char on 8/21/10

JackB ... There is no point in trying to discuss this with MarkV .... As far as he is concerned, we are all just puppets, with no power to act our own lives.

God makes us all. He made us all wicked (for nothing has ever happened on this world of ours which God did not plan)

Some He compels to repent of their wickedness and they inherit eternal life with God

The rest - he refuses to allow them to repent ... & He makes them continue to behave wickedly as He has made them behave, and He justly punishes them for "disobedience"

(Perhaps Mark has a special definition of disobedience!)
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/21/10

If he affirmed his belief in the prophets, he would also HAVE to admit that what they taught about Jesus death and resurrection...

Not even the Scribes, the scholars of Gods holy word, believed in Jesus Christ. Why? Because their hearts were far from Him.

I am amazed that you cant see the similarities in what you believe and what those Jewish leaders believed.

They believed they were the enlightened ones, called by God and that being chosen was all that mattered. Nothing could stop them from inheriting the promises of God - not even their own foolish hearts and sinful ways.

When Christ taught them otherwise, they wanted him dead!
---JackB on 8/21/10

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Jack B, no one can persuade anyone into salvation. No one. Not even you. So please, stop trying to have more power then God- MarkV

Im not trying to have more power over God, Mark, just doing things the way He said to do them.

And the way He says to do them suggests that the approach we use can make the difference.

Jude 1:22,23

"And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

---JackB on 8/21/10

When one repents it is more than just changing your mind, it is turning away from sin.

Here is an example of the word used by God, so that we will know what he expects of us when he tells us to repent.

Ezekiel 18:30
"Repent! Turn away from all your offenses, then sin will not be your downfall."
---David on 8/20/10

Jack B, no one can persuade anyone into salvation. No one. Not even you. So please, stop trying to have more power then God. Just becoming a Christian does not make someone save. There is many in Churches today that say they are Christian and are not saved. They need the Holy Spirit to bring them life.
The King knew the Old Testament teachings, his problem was the resurrection of Christ. Paul wished that they all would believe what he was saying. "And Paul said, I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains" but I too wish that you would believe what I'm saying but you don't.
---MarkV. on 8/20/10

Jack B, the story of Paul before king Agrippa in no way imply's he resisted the Holy Spirit. Where do you get that from?-MarkV

Mark, now youre simply being stubborn and denying what you already know to be true. Any man who resists the truth of God, whether it be thru the law, the psalms, the prophets, the gospels or the epistles....ALL are resisting the Holy Ghost.

The very words of scripture are given by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 1:20,21

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost
---JackB on 8/20/10

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Yeshua(Word) of Eloyhim is His strength-yamin("right hand")
If you believe in the Word of eloyhim it brings you to eloyhim-(Pointing to the road-way-to completeness).If not-you are lost(Psalm 119:105)You are not following truth--Jesus Christ-will not know you.
Repentance returns you back on the path-remitts you to Elohyim.
Confessing you believe Jesus Christ died and was risen by the Holy Spirit. Luke 25:45
Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures, And said unto them, "Thus is is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remissiono fsins should be preached in his name amoung all nations, beginning at Yerushalaim.
---char on 8/20/10 said: "If you believe the Lord, you will repent".

I have a question...If you believe(have faith)in the Lord, doesn't that mean that you have repented. Repent means to change ones mind. If you went from being a non-believer(which we were at one time) to a believer, isn't that changing your mind(repenting). The Holy Spirit then begins to clean us up from the inside out.
---JIM on 8/20/10

"Almost persuaded" since salvation or being saved is a unnatural state, brought about by the Holy Spirit,king Agrippa could not have only been "almost persuaded" except he was bothered by the Holy Spirit so I have to agree with Jack B on this question.
---mima on 8/20/10

Jack B, the story of Paul before king Agrippa in no way imply's he resisted the Holy Spirit. Where do you get that from? No mention is given of the Holy Spirit. No mention of Paul witnessing to the King. What Paul was doing was giving his testimony. And how God had called him to do what he was doing. He was been judge by the King. When Paul talked to him and told him, "do you believe in the prophets?". Paul was putting the King in a dilemma, If he affirmed his belief in the prophets, he would also have to admit that what they taught about Jesus death and resurrection was true-an admission that would make him appear foolish before his Roman friends, yet to deny the prophets would outrage his Jewish subjects.
---MarkV. on 8/20/10

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"Not that the works of obedience will get him salvation." ---MarkV. on 8/18/10

Sorry Mark, I was short on time yesterday and couldn't respond.

Jesus said, Repent or perish.
If you believe the Lord, you will repent.
If you Repent, it is because you believe what Jesus said.
This action taken is called Faith.
We are saved by Grace through Faith

(Hebrews 5:9)
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him"
---David on 8/20/10

Christ said we needed to repent. If we believe on Him then we just do what He says.
---Jackb on 8/19/10

How strange that the Apostle John never mentions repentance in his gospel.
What he does mention alot is "Believe".
---JIM on 8/18/10

David, sorry to disagree with you on John 14:21. What that passage is saying is that those who believe in Christ, will obey the commandments of God. Not that the works of obedience will get him salvation. But that the evidence of someone who is already save will show the evidence of works. For the lost do not obey the commandments of God. You have to be saved already. Jesus had just said,
"At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you" Those that do His commandments are saved already. If they don't do them, it gives evidence they are not saved.
---MarkV. on 8/18/10

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See this is where the problem resides, Mark.

Because conviction from the Holy Spirit brings repentance to our hearts and we realize we have sinned against God.
---MarkV. on 8/17/10

NOT every man who is convicted repents.

Acts 26:26 (Paul speaking to Agrippa)

For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him, for this thing was not done in a corner.

King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.

Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian

This man resisted the Holy Ghost.
---JackB on 8/18/10

Salvation is by grace [favor] alone.
---Catherine on 8/17/10

Believe it or not Catherine, I agree with you on this also.
I am not saying that we can save ourselves by our works, but it is through our works of Faith by which we gain the favor of God.
Jesus Christ is quite clear on this fact in (John 14:21).

The questions one should ask when reading Pauls letter to the church in Rome, are these:
Why does Paul need to tell us that Abrahams obedience to God was counted as righteousness, as Faith in God?
Why were the children of Abraham, who had the Law, why was their obedience not counted as righteousness and why is their works not called Faith?

Can Anybody give me a coherent answer to these Questions?
---David on 8/18/10

Yes, repentance is necessary for salvation.

It involves turning from sin and this world - - turning to God and giving ourselves to Him.

It involves how the Holy Spirit changes us, transforming us into His love's nature so we can obey God in love.

And we need to change, more and more, how God makes us like Jesus, pleasing to Him like Jesus is so pleasing (1 Peter 3:4), and making us become loving of all people (Matthew 5:46). So, we repent, yes, but then need much correction to become holy like God is holy in love (Hebrews 12:1-11), in His beauty and goodness and creativity for loving people (Philippians 1:9).
---Bill_bila5659 on 8/17/10

I came across this, tonight: God may have used a powerful preacher, a praying parent, or a tearful teacher, but God did it. He did it when we trusted Christ, not because we prayed so earnestly, repented so bitterly, or resolved so thoroughly. Salvation is by grace[favor] plus nothing.
---catherine on 8/17/10

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Ignatius, that guy Elder Ephraim spoke the very truth of God when he said,
"If man had not been given repentance , no one would be saved. Triumph and victory are given to man through the weapon of repentance. Glory to the only wise God, Who gave man such an effective medicine that cures every kind of illness, as long as it is taken properly"
I wish that everyone who believe that. Repentance comes from God, without it, all one shows is that they are not saved, but in order to get it you need to be born again of the Spirit. Because conviction from the Holy Spirit brings repentance to our hearts and we realize we have sinned against God.
---MarkV. on 8/17/10

Good....Good.....I found some common ground with most of you who answered YES.

For Those of you who say NO, I would like you to read the following statement from Jesus Christ in (Luke 13:1-5)
But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Now for those who answered YES, but think that works has no part of Salvation, read below:

To repent, do you not have to turn from sin?
Is sin not the transgression of the Law? (1John 3:4) KJV
If sin is the transgression of the Law, how can you repent lest you keep the Law?
Isnt keeping the Law, called works?
---David on 8/17/10

We have already repented by coming to Christ. JESUS is now our foundation.

If we return to our old "foundation of repentance", it would be "IMPOSSIBLE" to be restored to cleanliness (the repentant state).

As "babes in Christ", we were taught to do 'works of righteousness' in order to "repent", but now that we have moved on to "maturity" in Christ, we should not do that "AGAIN". Our self "works" were actually useless/"DEAD" (Hebrews 6:1). We should also no longer simply 'believe'/"faith", but have a "faith FOR FAITH" (Romans 1:17).

Hebrews 6:4
"impossible to restore AGAIN to repentance".
---more_excellent_way on 8/17/10

Amen Cluny, Amen.

As one Holy Monastic, by the name of Elder Ephraim, once said:

"Sincere repentance is repentance that displays regret for sins committed, mourning, burning tears that breaks down the strongholds of sin, and sincere and frank confession. Repentance leaves nothing unhealed. If man had not been given repentance , no one would be saved. Triumph and victory are given to man through the weapon of repentance. Glory to the only wise God, Who gave man such an effective medicine that cures every kind of illness, as long as it is taken properly....Let us ask God for compunction and mourning, and He will grant them to us". (Councils from the Holy Mountain)

In IC.XC.,
---Ignatius on 8/16/10

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Yes, the command is, Repent and be saved. For you cannot serve sin and also serve God at the same time.
---Eloy on 8/17/10

Oh, absolutely yes! However, it is God's spirit [powerful] which draws the individual to Christ to be saved. Then the process began. It is God's work and not the individual's....A sinners prayer, ensues, initiated by the Person of the Holy Spirit.
---catherine on 8/17/10

"Is repentance necessary for Salvation?" Yes
"The goodness of God leads you to repentance, and godly sorrow works repentance to salvation.." 2Cr 7:10> Rom 2:4 See Mat.21:28-31
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." Act 3:19
---josef on 8/17/10

Since you were chosen for salvation and being a member g God's family prior to creation because of Gods total fore Knowledge. Repentance is a result of salvation not a condition for it.
---Friendly_Blogger on 8/17/10

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Acts 2 v 38 Is where The actual salvation of God first started aft Jesus went up from the mount. To the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost.
---Lawrence on 8/17/10

I believe they go hand in hand.
If anyone being a non believer, comes to a saving faith in Christ. Believing solely on Jesus alone for their salvation. It is at that very moment that they went from not believing(no faith) to believing(having faith) that biblical repentence(changing ones mind) took place. Faith is given by God, and it is because of this faith that we have eternal life. It is Gods gift.
---JIM on 8/17/10

of course it is. John the Baptist preached a message of Repentence and Jesus said, "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand."

Repent means to turn completely away from your sin - to change your lifestyle and stop sinning. Cut it out! No more fornication, no more lying and remember, it's by the Spirit of God we are putting to death the deeds of the flesh.

Fill yourself up with the Word of God and you won't carry out the desires of the flesh, but YES repentence is absolutely necessary for Salvation.
---Donna5535 on 8/17/10

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