Lessons From Dove Center
\\. If we say that you must believe that or any other specific "doctrine" to be saved, salvation becomes a matter of knowledge not fatih.\\
I will admit if you push it too far, it becomes Gnosticism, but I do not intend it in this way.
In any case, "faith" as an unspecific willingness to believe in something will not save. Faith in TRUTH is what saves.
\\Hebrews 11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."\\
You see, you've answered your own objection.
---Cluny on 9/15/10|
"My point is that since God has revealed Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, those who do not worship Him as that are worshipping a false god, which is nothing more than an idol."
The fact that God has revealed himself as Father Son and Holy Spirit may very well be knowledge that one obtains after one is saved. If we say that you must believe that or any other specific "doctrine" to be saved, salvation becomes a matter of knowledge not fatih.
Hebrews 11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."
---Bruce5656 on 9/15/10|
\\Where is our Bible (King James) do you see God mentioned as Allah? It's only in the Koran.\\
As a matter of fact, "Allah" is no more than the Arabic word for God, used by Arabic speaking Christians all the time, and it's clearly a cognate of the Hebrew word for God EL.
The word "Allah" is used for God in Arabic Bibles all the time.
But I'm not arguing against the mere word "Allah," which is not a name.
My point is that since God has revealed Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, those who do not worship Him as that are worshipping a false god, which is nothing more than an idol.
---Cluny on 9/14/10|
Bruce, I understand exactly what Cluny is saying and he is right. allah is a false God. Where is our Bible (King James) do you see God mentioned as Allah? It's only in the Koran.
God is NOT Allah, God, Our God is Jehovah. Jehovah, the Lord our Peace. Allah is a false god, a god of the moon.
I know you are a Godly man...allah and Jehovah are NOT the same God that Christians and Muslems believe in.
I believe in the ONE true God of Israel, the one who sent his only begotten Son to die for our sins, Jesus. Do Muslums believe in Jesus? No, right?
Allah is not mentioned in the King James bible, only the Koran. Muslums are praying to a false god, not the Lord God of Israel.
---Donna5535 on 9/14/10|
\\The three claim to worship the God of Abraham do they not?\\
That means nothing.
Jesus told the Bible experts of His own day, "In VAIN do you worship Me."
Claiming to worship God is meaningless if you don't believe and worship God as He has revealed Himself: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Satan has a clearer understanding and less distorted of God than ANY of us do. He knows God "not as I think Thou art, but what Thou knowest Thyself to be," as one poet said. He once beheld God face to face in the mystery of the Holy Trinity--and STILL rebelled.
---Cluny on 9/14/10|
The real issue is the credibility of Terry Jones as a Pastor. He had been using a tax exempt Church building to operate a commercial furniture business. The state of Florida as determined that the portion of the building used for profit operations is not tax exempt. Pastor Jones incorporated The Dove Center as a nonprofit corporation under Section 501(c)(3) the Internal Revenue Code and has to file tax statements for the corporation and on a recent filing stated the 69% of the church income went to Administrative over head. As Christian organizations go that is very high. So I guess he get an A in transiency and an F in general Administration. And if someone looked hard the Dove Center was financing the furniture business.
---blogger9211 on 9/14/10|
It sounds like you are saying that the thee do not have the same understanding of who God is and how to come to Him. How does that equate to - not the same God?
The three claim to worship the God of Abraham do they not? He is, in fact, the true God. Jews and Islamists may have a distoted view of His nature or of the provision He has made for our salvation, but that does not mean they believe in a different God. It just means they do not know God even though they claim to serve Him.
I am not suggesting that there are three ways to God. There is only one - Jesus.
Satan believes in the one true God. He has a distorted view of him Him but that does not mean he does not believe in the same God you and I do.
---Bruce5656 on 9/14/10|
We need to stop misrepresenting the living God. God's ways are hard to understand at best. But, if you will wait, learn to wait on Him, you too, will have your day in court, and come out not smelling like smoke....Man's day is now, but, God's day is coming, my friends.+
---catherine on 9/14/10|
\\(assuming you believe allah is a false god, and allah and Jehovah are NOT the same God),\\
You are quite right, Donna.
Christians, Jews, and mahometans do NOT worship the same God at all.
Christians believe that God is three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Jews and mahometans deny this.
They might have CONCEPTIONS about God, but every conception about God by the human mind is an IDOL, even if it is not physically externalized.
They do not know the Father, either, except through the Son. Jesus said as much.
If they have ANY knowledge of the Father outside the Son, then Jesus was Incarnate, lived, died, rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven IN VAIN!
---Cluny on 9/13/10|
Your question answers itself however, I think I know what you are asking and I agree that he never should have been given the attention he was. Some of the Canadian media became critical of the media in general about this. During a slow news period, this was a story that needed no anaylsis, reasearch or other work other than to point a camera at an attention seeking man in an obscure Florida church.
I do want to ask you this. You said "allah and Jehovah are NOT the same God". What is the basis of that statement?
---Bruce5656 on 9/13/10|
I learned that the name of the fellowship had more Spirit in it than the people in the fellowship. I don't know if his whole congregation was behind him but if they were, this is the equivalent of the sons of thunder asking if Jesus wanted them to call down fire from heaven upon the Samaritans who rejected Him. Jesus' answer...you know not what spirit ye are of.
---Linda on 9/13/10|
2Ki 12:2-3 And Jehoash did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD all his days wherein Jehoiada the priest instructed him. But the high places were not taken away: the people still sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places.
2Ki 14:3-4 And he did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD...Howbeit the high places were not taken away: as yet the people did sacrifice and burnt incense on the high places.
2Ki 15:3-5a And he did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father Amaziah had done, Save that the high places were not removed: the people sacrificed and burnt incense still on the high places. And the LORD smote the king...
Now read about Ahaz 2Kings 18
---micha9344 on 9/13/10|
I wanted to add that I have learned that when we give people attention who worship a false god (assuming you believe allah is a false god, and allah and Jehovah are NOT the same God), like Pastor Terry Jones did, when we give them creedence, we are acknowledging what they are saying AND we are igniting a war with the enemy.
We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against spirits and principalities, so when that Florida Pastor took on the issue of the mosque, he took on all of their demons. If he would have IGNORED everything, the FBI and Secretary of Defense would not have had to get involved. Why can't we just ignore false god worship?
---Donna5535 on 9/13/10|