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Was King David Forgiven

Was King David forgiven before he repented?

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 ---mima on 9/20/10
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Yes but his son still died.
---judy6696 on 11/8/10

Good answer Sister Donna66, I'm glad you are on line again. Your impute on the Truth is very much needed. Blessings to you.
---MarkV. on 10/7/10

This from the Catholic Encylopedia:

In Catholic theology: (from SACRIFICE OF THE MASS: Catholic Encylopedia)
The mass is propitiatory sacrifice to be offered for both the living and the dead for for sins, punishments, satisfactions, and other necessities... Any one that says that the Mass is only a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving is cursed... It is as much a sacrifice as was the OT sacrifice of bulls and goats with out which Christianity would be inferior not only to the Old Testament, but even to the poorest form of natural religion... The mass is nothing else than the unbloody reproduction of the Sacrifice of the Cross. it is the sacrifice of the God-Man Himself.
---Bruce5656 on 10/7/10

Ruben --- Jesus went on to explain his sayings further to those who cared to stay and listen. Those who left were free to do so.

Bruce-- You are correct. Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me", not "Do this that your sins can be forgiven". Jesus already performed the sacrifice needed for our salvation. But some feel the need to perform some act or ritual to be "worthy" of God's love.
I hadn't thought of it before, but yes, it does seem like a return, in a way, to the Old Testament sacrificial requirement.
---Donna66 on 10/6/10

why should we repent if God forgives us ahead of time ? ill tell you why , to keep us humble many Christians hardly ever repent they take God for granted. God loved David so much because he had a repented heart, and we all need to do this daily. and David paid for his sins as we all do, just because we sin does not give us carte blanche to do as we please . We need to learn to fear God because this is the first step to Wisdom....Amen
---Lea on 10/6/10

Bruce, before you judge what I said, you should have read what I said. I don't mind been corrected when I am wrong. Please feel free to.
You err when you put words in my mouth that I said God's chastizement is punishment. While the word "Paideia" means correction it can also mean correction with discipline. But I never said or implied such a thing. If you are saying that when I said, God terminates someone's life is a punishment, to me he is not been punished, he is been terminated. Punishment is something you continue to feel. You feel nothing when you are dead.
---MarkV. on 10/6/10

"If transubstantiation as practiced by the RCC is true then necessarily they would continually be recrucifying Jesus afresh every time they have communion which is daily."

In fact, in RCC theology, the mass is every bit as necessary as was the OT sacrifice - and for the same purpose - the cleansing from sin!

It is not viewed as representative or symbolic but rather as the actual (albeit mysterious) sacrifice of Christ over and over.
---Bruce5656 on 10/6/10

"God chastize His children, and if they are not chastized they are not His children. Sometimes a brother can sin so bad, that God will bring physical death to him.

If chastize means "punish" as you assert, what does that say about the substitutionairy death of Christ? Was it only for some of the sin one may committ? How is it that God would "punish" a Christian who's sins have been forgiven due to the fact that Christ has born the punishment of all our sin?

I suggest you do a word study on the word chastening etc and you will find it means training and education not punishment.
---Bruce5656 on 10/6/10

If transubstantiation as practiced by the RCC is true then necessarily they would continually be recrucifying Jesus afresh every time they have communion which is daily.
---mima on 10/6/10

Interesting that the early disciples, thinking literally, were
repulsed at the idea of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus. (understandably!) Jhn 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. When Jesus knew... that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
---Donna66 on 10/5/10


Why did Jesus say 'Doth this offend you' and not you misunderstood me. And if we eat his Flesh and drink his blood and dwellth in him and he with us, why would he let some of his disciples go "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."(JHN 6:66) Their Salavation is in danger?
---Ruben on 10/6/10

Mima--Interesting question ( about transubstantiation). Of course, that's not what Paul had in mind here, since the RC sacrament didn't yet exist.

Interesting that the early disciples, thinking literally, were
repulsed at the idea of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus. (understandably!) Jhn 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. Jhn 6:60 & 62.... when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying, who can hear it? When Jesus knew... that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

He was speaking of life in the Spirit, but some still oddly want to partake of the literal "body" and "blood" of Christ.
---Donna66 on 10/5/10

Gordon, I was not saying that at all of what you said. My main point is that if a person truely commits his life to Christ, he will follow Christ, God through the Holy Spirit will equip him and teach him and even give him the desire to please Christ (God). The reason He gets the glory. But not a one is lost. Since it is God who saves us, and not us save ourselves, what He starts He finishes. Yes, some true Christian do backslide, but they are never lost. God chastize His children, and if they are not chastized they are not His children. Sometimes a brother can sin so bad, that God will bring physical death to him (Acts 5:1-11, 1 Cor. 5:5, 11:30). It is not one perticular sin but a sin that causes the Lord to bring physical death as His judgment.
---MarkV. on 10/5/10

MarkV, You cannot follow CHRIST and not be saved. If you were not saved, you would not be followiing Him, you would not have the desire to. GOD is the One Who gives us Faith and the Desire to follow Him. So, if one is following the LORD at any time, he is one of His. But, you're telling me that a Christian cannot backslide? "Yes, But, they always come back to the Lord...."
---Gordon on 10/5/10

Gordon, while you are correct that some principles that were directed to the Hebrews are directed for us also, the context itself is speaking to Hebrews, where many were not saved at all. A study into Biblical history facts of their struggles at the time and what was happening will give you the context of what Hebrews is talking about. Just because someone is enlighten in the Word and follows Christ for a time, does not make him saved. We have many of those today in church who are not saved. They hear the Truth over and over, but never make a contrite committment by faith in Christ works and resurrection. In the end they leave, to manifest to us they were never one of us as Scripture declares. Those born of God overcome.
---MarkV. on 10/5/10

Donna66 you wrote, speaking of the Jews,"They, as none other, could "crucify the Son of God afresh" but I would ask you also to consider the belief of transubstantiation as practiced by the RCC. Is they not continuously crucifying the son of God afresh?
---mima on 10/4/10

Gordon, backsliders you talked about were not born of the Spirit. Scripture everywhere indicates that God finishes what He started. If they fall all the way, it's because they were never saved by grace through faith. Christ loses no one, words of Christ our Savior, and you say not true.

"You are of God little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world" you are saying He is not.
"For whatever is born of God overcomes the world" also,
"But also all those who have known the truth, because of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever"
TSure they left, "because they were not of us"
---MarkV. on 10/4/10

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MarkV, The Book of Hebrews applies to ALL BELIEVERS. The Principle you mentioned, saying that it applied (only) to the Jews is really the same Principle for all believers, Jew and Gentile alike. I know of that explanation you gave, I used to believe it when I believed in the OSAS doctrine. Charles Stanley, and others teach that interpretation, and it's way incorrect. GOD says concerning BACKSLIDERS, that those who "look back (while) at the plow" are not fit for the Kingdom. If you backslide, and you stay that way, and you die that way, your soul will end up in Hell. GOD is serious about hating sin. HEBREWS is a Wise Warning from GOD for ALL OF US in the Church, INCLUDING ME.
---Gordon on 10/4/10

Gordon 3,
What you fail to understand as I see it is that when a person is Saved by God, and receives the Lord's sacrifice, it is one sacrifice for all time. Repentance unto salvation is a one time deal. We continually repent after being saved, because we now recognized our sin. But only one repentance for salvation. If we had to repent for salvation over and over, we would be doing what the old testament law demanded. Sacrifice over and over. No one could keep the whole law because everyone sins. No one could be save that way. But through Christ Jesus we are forgiven for all time. Those who have not been born of God, are still under the law. Lost with no hope. They need for God to bring Christ into their lives. Their only hope.
---MarkV. on 10/4/10

Gordon 2: you believe a person can lose salvation and look for passages that you think imply they do, and miss out on the passages that clearly say they don't. Even in Hebrews, 10:8-16, Here the writer is telling those Hebrews that by the law they did not desire to sacrifice over and over. He says in v. 9, that "Jesus takes away the first (law) that He may establish the second" (Himself)
then says, "And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatly the same sacrifice, which can never take away sins" Jesus with one sacrifice has made it possible for us to never have to come to Christ again for salvation. Under the law, you had to do it over and over. With your theory you recommend the Law.
---MarkV. on 10/3/10

Hbr 6:4 & 6 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost... If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This seems to be directed to the Hebrews. They, not the gentiles, agitated for Christ's crucifixion. They, as none other, could "crucify the Son of God afresh". If They turned back to animal sacrifices and Jewish laws, it was not just careless neglect, but an active nullifying of Christs sacrifice.

The Bible gives many parables and examples of Jesus joyfully welcoming home repentant
---Donna66 on 10/3/10

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Gordon, you did not give any answers to my questions. I know the reason is because you have no Scriptures, because there isn't any. Concerning Hebrews, If you read the conditions at the time to that community of Hebrews, and, who were this Hebrews and what they were about to go through, you would have known about those passages. Many of this Hebrews were convert's, and many were not. The Hebrew community was about to go to through intensified persecution (10:32-39, 12:4). As they confroned this possibility, some Hebrews were tempted to cast aside any identification with Christ. Because those Hebrews among them were enlighten of the Word of God just like many who go to church now, but never made a contrite committment to Christ as their Savior.
---MarkV. on 10/3/10

MarkV, Yes, a Christian is saved by the Blood of YAHUSHUA (JESUS). So, what do the Scriptures mean in HEBREWS 6 and HEBREWS 10? Where they speak of those who were once enlightened and have tasted of the Heavenly Gift but have fallen from Grace. And, those who are found impossible to bring back to repentance, who have trampled on the Blood of YAHUSHUA, which redeemed them, counting it as a common thing? Who are these Verses referring to? BACKSLIDERS. Only a Christian can backslide. That's what backsliding means, to "slide back" into the old sinful ways of living. It is very possible for a Christian to backslide, and in HEBREWS we have the Warning of what happens if we die in the unrepentant backslidden state.
---Gordon on 10/2/10

Mima, The Scriptures state that by a person's fruits you shall know them. If a person is truly born of GOD, they will have the desire to live for GOD in Holiness, AND to repent of, to forsake, their sin. But, it's a DAILY CHOICE. The Relationship with GOD is as a marital relationship. It is a moment-by-moment decision to follow GOD and HIS Ways. The LORD commands that we obey HIM, IF we love HIM. His Commands are to love GOD with your whole being, and love your neighbour as yourself. That will include walking in Holiness, and forsaking sin. For any sin is an act of rebellion and IS NOT of Love. The Bible also says that Faith WITHOUT WORKS is DEAD. If you're Born Again, you will turn from sin, and endeavor to walk in Holiness. Cont...
---Gordon on 9/30/10

Mima, As I said before, it is the sins that a Christian KNOWS THAT HE KNOWS are wrong and are sins, and that are planned ahead of time and premeditated to participate in that are putting his/her soul at risk of Hell IF...IF he/she should die in those sins, having NOT REPENTED of them beforehand, before the LORD. It's not the everyday sins of thoughts, words, etc. that we commit moment-by-moment throughout the day. Although WE ARE to work on those things, too: renewing the mind, the thought-life, walking with clean lips, etc. But, the outright sinning in areas that the Christian KNOWS are sins, and won't bother to deal with them, to rid of them, and continues walking in those sins, those are the soul-destroyers.
---Gordon on 9/30/10

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Mima, PSALM 15 encapsulates what's expected to enter Heaven to live there eternally: "YAHUVEH (LORD), who shall abide in Thy Tabernacle (Heaven)? Who shall dwell in Thy Holy Hill? He that walketh uprightly, and WORKETH RIGHTEOUSNESS, and speaketh the Truth in his heart. He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour. In whose eyes a vile person is contemned, but, he honoureth them that fear YAHUVEH (the LORD). He that sweareth to his own hurt (keeps a vow no matter how painful), and changeth not (does not break vow). He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved." Cont....
---Gordon on 9/30/10

Gordon the Bible says "Whoever is born of God overcomes the world". Question, is the person who overcomes the world going to heaven? Question, how does this person overcome the world? Is it by his efforts such as turning from and not committing sin ever again? Or is it by being born of God?

Your core beliefs(shared by the vast majority of the world) absolutely depend upon you and your efforts and therefore must be classified as WORKS.

My core beliefs have me believing in the forgiveness of a loving God not one who is looking to punish those who slip. And rest assured we are all among those who have sliped.
---mima on 9/30/10

Gordon, there is no sin that leads a genuine Christian to hell. His been forgiven. You are implying that Christ death on the cross was not sufficient enough to save you. That His death needs your works, in order for you to be saved. I know you mean well, but you are promoting that after God has brought you to life, bought you with the blood of Christ, endwelled you with the Spirit and sealed you to the day of redemption and we are told that Christ sustains us to that end, you are saying that it is not true at all, that if we sin we go to hell. What hope do we have? no hope at all, since all sin and come short of the glory of God. In order for your theory to be true, you would have to have an answer to all my questions and I know you don't.
---MarkV. on 9/30/10

Mima, Repentance is turning from sin. What did YAHUSHUA tell the Adulteress in JOHN 8:10-11? And, why do you think the LORD warns in REVELATION 21:8 those who live in sin, including the sins listed in that Verse, that they shall burn in the Lake of Fire? WHY? Because of their SIN. Why does the LORD even wash away our sin, if it was not something HE did not want HIS people involved in? GOD HATES SIN, and HE wants, desires and expects HIS people to hate it, too. For nothing sinful and abominable will enter Heaven. Again, read HEBREWS 6:4-6 and HEBREWS 10:26-31. Those Verses warn against Christians backsliding. Repentance is having the same mind of agreement about sin, as does GOD, hating it, and getting rid of it.
---Gordon on 9/30/10

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Mima, The sins referred to that leads a Christian to Hell are the sins of which they know that THEY KNOW are wrong but are determined to put GOD to the test by living in said sin. Premeditating, and planning on participating in said sin(s). GOD is very, very much full of Mercy, and in that Mercy, He may keep the sinning Christian alive, will lovingly convict that Christian of his/her sin, all in hopes that that person will REPENT and turn away from their pet sin. If they repent, GOOD, they have spared their own soul, through His Blood, of course. But, if not, and they die in their unrepented sin, they will go to Hell. GOD hates sin, and He is very serious about sin and Holiness. HE is not a game player. And, HE is no respecter of persons.
---Gordon on 9/30/10

Donna66, you are correct. I too believe God had forgiven him already. Thanks for bringing that up. Very good points. David was first convicted by Nathans story when he found out it was him Nathan was talking about. But David had to acknowledge his sin first. God knew from the foundation of the world what David was going to do but still set His love on him. I know most of us would never do what David did, and if we were to judge him, he would get death. But God thinks of all things so very different then us for He had another response set for him. With a purpose behind it.
---MarkV. on 9/29/10

Gordon and others, there is no holiness apart from God. And with God there is no condemnation. Repentance is not turning from sin rather repentance is the changing of one's mind for example,a lost man decides to accept or receive the Lord Jesus Christ, that is repentance.
Most have trouble accepting the permaence of forgiveness. They seem to think that God is an Indian giver. Today he forgives and tomorrow He takes back his forgiveness. When with the crowd of those who believe "once saved always saved" is a false doctrine I ask if sin can enter heaven? No No they say!! I then asked are you sin free moment at this moment,_(heads hanging down no answer is forthcoming) if not you're bound to go to hell if you died right now.
---mima on 9/29/10

Gordon, I always like your answers but you are so wrong about a genuine believer sinning and not going to heaven.

What happens to him when he is born of the Spirit? Does he die a second spiritual death again?
Does he lose his adoption? And goes back to the agency?
And what about, "All sin and come short of the glory of God?"
Are you saying that in the end, a person has to be perfect before he dies? Rev.21:7,8 does not say what you are saying,
"He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son." Who is he who overcomes? 1 John 5:45, say's "Whoever is born of God overcomes the world"
---MarkV. on 9/29/10

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Mima, Once-Saved, Always-Saved is a false doctrine. Heaven is a Holy Place for people who strive to live in Holiness. A Christian can most certainly backslide, you KNOW that. It's in the Bible. And, if a Christian backslides, gets into sin, and does not acknowledge that and does not repent of his/her sin and then dies in their sin, they will not enter GOD's Heavenly Kingdom. Hard to take, but, it's true. GOD clarifys in REVELATION 21:7-8 who will and who won't enter Heaven. Whoever participates in the listed sins, whether christian or not, and does not repent, will end up in the Lake of Fire. HEBREWS 6:4-6 and HEBREWS 10:26-31 mean exactly what they say. It applies to anyone and everyone in the Church, me included.
---Gordon on 9/29/10

King David says: "When I kept silence, wearied my bones through my groaning all the day. For by day and by night was heavy upon me your hand, my moisture was turned into the droughts of summer. Exalt. My sin I made you know, and my crookedness I have not covered. I said, I will confess up to my disobedience to Yhwh, and you took away the punishment of my sin. Exalt." Ps.32:3-5.
---Eloy on 9/29/10

Mima, why your response? I was reading right from Scripture passage after passage. Nathan told him it was him and how mad God was, after all the good things God had done for him, and was now angry and was going to punish him and family, so David confessed when he said, "I have sinned against the Lord" After hearing what David had just said, Nathan answered, "The Lord also has put away your sin, You shall not die" Two things here, one God had forgiven him, and second, he was not going to die. The reason he said not going to die, was because according to Mosic law, both adultery (Lev. 20:10) and murder (Lev. 24:17) required punishment by death. God was going to set the consequences of his sin.
---MarkV. on 9/28/10

Forgiveness for David was always available. And God let Nathan know that David would be forgiven.
I suspect David knew at the time of his sin, that he was sinning (the law is quite clear). But like many of us, he quickly rationalized it away...Bathsheba appearing when she did must be an expression of God's will...which necessitated Uriah's death (i.e David was carrying out God's will and producing a new heir to the throne)... or something similar.

He lied to himself, as we all do from time to time.
He sensed no need for forgiveness until Nathan's story showed him the truth. Then he quickly repented, just as God knew he would.
David, though forgiven, was in no way protected from the consequences of his sinful choice.
---Donna66 on 9/28/10

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Markv I believe David was aware of what it did to Uriah was wrong and I consider your statement a ridiculous defense of David.

---Gordon it is sure folly for you to attempt to place words in God's mouth!

I understand why you believe like you do. Nevertheless the facts are that Nathan spoke using the past tense signifying that David was forgiven before he repented. This illustrates the correctness of eternal security,O.S.A.S.
---mima on 9/27/10

David did not realized he sinned against God until Nathan told him the story of the rich man. When he finished telling the story David was upset someone would do that. When he was told he was that man, David realized his sin. God brought conviction to David through the story of the rich man. And David said without attempting to rationalize or justify his sin confessed he had sinned against God when he said, "I have sinned against the Lord" Then Nathan said, "The Lord also has put away your sin, you shall not die" v. 13. The Lord graciously forgave David's sin, but the consequences of sin were still there. Forgiveness does not always remove the consequences in this life of sin.
---MarkV. on 9/27/10

Mima, David did not receive the Message of GOD's Forgiveness UNTIL David, acknowledged OUT LOUD before the Prophet of GOD, or, at least, himself alone before GOD. What do you know that GOD did not say to Nathan, "Nathan, Go to king David, and if he is repentant, tell him, therefore, that I, the LORD GOD, hath forgiven him of these sins." Something of that nature. What does MARK 11:25-26 say? Read it. It's Scripture. The Forgiveness Principle in MARK 11:25-26 applies to the GOD and man Relationship as well. That's how GOD does Forgiveness. There are stipulations to follow if you want the reception and effects of GOD's Forgiveness for yourself.
---Gordon on 9/27/10

To those who do not believe David was forgiven before he repented, I would ask you this question what do you do with this verse.

Second Samual 12:13, "And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin, thou shalt not die." Consider" The Lord also HATH put away thy sin" Hath is past tense is it not?
---mima on 9/26/10

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NO! However, remember, he did repent. However, remember, even-though God forgave him, there were always war in his house. For as long as he lived, For the rest of his life....Ahh Jesus..... God takes SIN, SERIOUSLY.
---catherine on 9/26/10

I do not believe king David was forgiven by GOD until he repented. There is false doctrine in the Church today that says "ALL of your sins were already forgiven, past, present and future, because (after all) CHRIST YAHUSHUA died on the Cross before you were ever born, yada, yada, yada....But, GOD deals with people individually and a saved Relationship with HIM is a two-way street. GOD expects us to know and recognize that we have sinned, acknowledge that sin or SINS before HIM, ourselves and others involved and THEN, we are to ask and seek His Forgiveness.
---Gordon on 9/25/10

I wonder if anyone remembers James 5:16 "Confess Your Sins To One Another . . ." I believe that that includes GOD as well.
---Augie on 9/26/10

I do not believe king David was forgiven by GOD until he repented. There is false doctrine in the Church today that says "ALL of your sins were already forgiven, past, present and future, because (after all) CHRIST YAHUSHUA died on the Cross before you were ever born, yada, yada, yada....But, GOD deals with people individually and a saved Relationship with HIM is a two-way street. GOD expects us to know and recognize that we have sinned, acknowledge that sin or SINS before HIM, ourselves and others involved and THEN, we are to ask and seek His Forgiveness. He will graciously do so, in Love and Mercy and Tenderness. But, we must ask for it first.
---Gordon on 9/25/10

Donna5535, your question was a good one. While studying and reading what you said, I remembered a few passages in Revelation. Here is what you can expect when you are in heaven, verse 3:12,
"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. "And I will write on him My new name."
At the moment we see Christ, whatever we may have called Him and understood by that name will pale in the reality of what we see. And He will give us a new name, eternal name by which we will know Him.
---MarkV. on 9/25/10

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mima, ask the question to yourself, and you will have your own answer. Were YOU forgiven before you repented?

Of course, we live in time, and God doesn't.

\\Good point Cluny, thank you for enlightening me.

I wonder what God called Him before he named him Jesus? Just "Son?"
---Donna5535 on 9/21/10\\

Good question, Donna.

I don't know if we'll ever know how the Three Persons converse among themselves. This would involve really knowing the ESSENCE of God, which is (as far as I know) impossible.
---Cluny on 9/24/10

Yes, I believe that King David was "forgiven", but the Angel warned him that his son would die.

I believe that this is an example for the rest of us. GOD is All-Knowing and Quick to forgive. HE also knows that people, like King David, won't truely REPENT unless, and until, they know about the CONSEQUENCES of their sin.

I think that King David thought that his affair with Bathsheba could be "covered up" by sending her husband Uriah to die in battle. Then they would be a happy family with a son on-the-way.

GOD sent his Angel to inform David that there would be heart-breaking CONSEQUENCES for his sinful affair and planned murder. The son did end up dying.
---Sag on 9/21/10

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.
---micha9344 on 9/21/10

Good point Cluny, thank you for enlightening me.

I wonder what God called Him before he named him Jesus? Just "Son?"
---Donna5535 on 9/21/10

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\\Yes, David was forgiven because Jesus always existed\\

To be precise, Donna, the SON always existed, but He was not known as Jesus until His Incarnation in the womb of the Virgin.
---Cluny on 9/21/10

BEFORE he repented?

The bible tells us: IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Is this a trick question? Because I know what you're thinking.

Yes, David was forgiven because Jesus always existed and the plan of salvation was put into place by God from the creation of the world, but I'm not sure I believe David was forgiven BEFORE he repented.

I think when Natan went to David with that Word for him, THAT's when David repented. If he didn't get caught by God, don't think he would have repented and wouldn't have been forgiven.

BTW, he still had to suffer the consequences of his sin even though he repented.
---Donna5535 on 9/21/10

Rather than indulging in useless speculation about others, we should examine ourselves.
---Cluny on 9/20/10

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