Does Evil Come From God
To David8318 -
When God commanded mankind to obey in His Words through His laws, it simply demonstrates that mankind does not have the ability to obey. And guess who earned us death in this? Yes, our father Adam. And if Adam couldn't obey God are you telling me that all born after Adam in the flesh can obey God?
If your answer is yes, the death of Christ on the cross at Calvary was worthless. Why? Christ declared in Matthew 5:17, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."
What you are then telling me is by obeying God, you have fulfilled the law!
---christan on 10/18/10|
Christan- I do not believe 'free will' is an evil. God did not create humans as automatons, programmed to do everything according to God's will, or conversely, programmed to do evil. Each and every one of us has freedom to choose whatever action we want to pursue- good or bad, righteous or evil. Ultimately, God will judge whether one has chosen a righteous or evil path.
Come the Great Tribulation, Christ will sort people into 2 groups- 'the sheep and the goats', on the basis of their CHOICE to do either good or bad to his brothers- Mt.25:31-41, and whether or not they CHOOSE to respond to the message of the 'Good news'- 2 Thess.1:6-8.
Jehovah God says, 'You must CHOOSE life in order that you may keep alive.' Deut.30:19.
---David8318 on 10/17/10|
MarkV, thanks. You don't know how many times you've written something I've agreed with and enjoyed. Lord bless you brother.
---trey on 10/15/10|
Trey, I believe your answer was great brother. Because of sin we have what we have now. Although what Pharaoh wrote seems logical now, now that the world is fallen, now that we see what the world is like, it did come because of sin. If man had eternal life and had not fallen, they would have never died in fire, drowned in water, are killed in a tornator. What God created was perfect. Even the animals were perfect to each its kind. But because of sin, all changed. People would die, spiritual and phsyical deaths. In sin now, people will always die. He said it was ignorance, ignorance to to him who looks at life without the fall. But not ignorance to those who look at life after the fall.
---MarkV. on 10/15/10|
God created everything. And everything is everything good, evil ect. And your wrong tornados, hurricans floods they are needed to keep the balance of the planet they are not a punishment of God for sin thats just plain ignorant if anyone thinks that. Fire is good when its cooking your food but its bad when it burns down your house(just a example) in other words all these things are natrual. And are needed to sustain life. So get it right!
---Phroah_amenhotep on 10/15/10|
The Lord is holy (1 Pet 1:16). He is not the author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33). He changes not (Mal 3:6). The Lord is righteous, and all his works are righteous.(Pslms 145:17)
Yes, God created the lights in the heavens and created light to shine out of the darkness of men's hearts.
God also created the darkness for his pleasure and glory.
God sent his Son Christ who made his people to be at peace with him through his sacrifice on the cross.
God creates evil, not as in sin, but as in famine, floods, tornadoes, etc. Man suffers from these due to sin. God did not create sin. Man did.
Ro5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
---trey on 10/14/10|
//JackB the rest of what Mark said indicates he feels the tree was real.
A misunderstanding ...//- Pendant
Its possible I did misunderstantd
For that I apologize.
---JackB on 10/14/10|
Life in flesh is only temperary-Eternal life isn't.
This time-frame (flesh) is the process of elimination.Gods time frame is forever and perfectly functional.
Gen 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us(know good and evil)-function and dysfunction. man was a unit from God-with an intended functional purpose-but deceived-now if he ate from the tree of life- the dysfunction through man will live.
Gods plan is perfect-through the process of elimination those who stood-may still stand with him-and will continue to everlasting.
In-Christ all things work together for good.
We are given istructions to function mentally,physical and spiritually.
If we abide-we walk in peace.
---char on 10/14/10|
David - the problem with this world is very simple, and that is the "free-will" of man. As long as God Almighty does not remove this evil thought in our hearts that only God Almighty has "free-will" and not man, we will continue to walk in everlasting darkness of His Word.
It is true that God is unforgiving to those He has not chosen in Jesus Christ. It is true that God hated Esau and in this we learn that God does not love everyone. And what did Paul simply declares in Romans 9:14 - "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid."
---christan on 10/14/10|
MarkV you did say //The tree of life represented eternal life// so Jack had a point ... BUT
JackB the rest of what Mark said indicates he feels the tree was real.
A misunderstanding ...
Children, kiss & make up!
---Pedant on 10/14/10|
"There are two totally different kinds of evil: physical and moral. Floods, earthquakes, droughts, wild animals, and the like are physical evils, not moral evils or sin. It is in this sense that it can be said that God created evil or calamities..." Lectures in Systematic Theology, Thiessen, page 171 - 172.
I don't know if I agree with this 100% but it makes more sense than any thing else I've read on this subject.
---Harold on 10/14/10|
Jack, did you not read what I said? Why do you twist it? What can you possibly get out of doing that? Not a thing.
Here is what I said,
"Jack, if Adam had eaten of the tree of life before he sinned he would have eternal life." Do you get that? if he had eaten of the tree of life, doesn't that mean the tree was real, and the fruit real? Can you eat something out of something that is not literal? I don't think so. You have got to have a better answer then that Jack. Don't get lost out there, come back to the Truth. Don't go away from speaking for the Truth.
---MarkV. on 10/14/10|
//The tree of life represented eternal life.//
So you dont believe it was a literal tree. It just represented eternal life. Doesnt surprise me.
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there
the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
---JackB on 10/13/10|
Jack, if Adam had eaten of the tree of life before he sinned he would have eternal life. If He had eaten of the tree of life after he sinned he would have lived forever. The tree of life represented eternal life. Eating from it a person would get eternal life and the reason God placed cherubim at the east of the garden and a flaming sword which turned everyway, to guard the way to the tree of life. We know he did not eat from it because he did not have eternal life. He died as I said before. Sudden spiritual death, (separation from God), and a later, physical death.
---MarkV. on 10/13/10|
David, you gave two passages, the first you say to everyone,
"The God of the Bible is nothing like what MarkV promotes. Jehovah is a God of love, who is 'slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness.' Ex.34:6."
What you fail to tell was that God was speaking to Israel. Not to all nations. In fact God was going to take care of all other nations by distroying them. Now that was great love for the other people, many who had nothing to do with what their leaders did. Women and children also were killed even livestock. They were no more sinners then Israel. Second you give 2 Peter 3:9 which is speaking to believers, the elect not the world, since 2 Peter 2:4-6, shows what He will do to the others. You misquote Scripture.
---MarkV. on 10/11/10|
//Jack, the tree of life was never eaten from by Adam or Eve.. If you belive they ate from it you must be reading a very different Bible //
It doesnt say they didnt either. It simply tells us that they did the one thing God commanded them not to. The Bible doesnt mention any other sons of Adam but Cain, Able and Seth, but anyone with common sense knows the man had way more than that.
Are you now going to deny that had Adam and Eve eaten of the tree of life AFTER they sinned they would have lived forever?
(Gen 3:22) "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"
---JackB on 10/11/10|
Richard, I don't believe Is.45:7 teaches all evil comes from God- as can be seen from your citing of Js.1:12. At Is.45:7, KJV uses 'calamity', the NIV uses 'disaster'.
As previously stated, my belief is that God was justified in bringing evil or calamity upon Adam for his disobedience. Hence, in the scriptures God is referred to as the creator of evil or calamity. His enforcing of the penalty for sin- death -has proved to be an evil or a calamity for mankind. So then, evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by God are the Flood of Noah's day and the Ten Plagues on Egypt. But these evils were not wrongs. The proper administration of justice against wrongdoers was involved in both cases.
---David8318 on 10/11/10|
MarkV, your comments continue to convince me that you believe in an unforgiving, unloving and wholly unjust god. So not only has your god 'created them knowing they would do evil', but he also created a hell-fire to burn those people eternally for the evils he knew they would commit! What a horrible, sadistic deity you believe in! I feel sorry for the people you grossly mislead!
The God of the Bible is nothing like what MarkV promotes. Jehovah is a God of love, who is 'slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness.' Ex.34:6. Nobody is predetermined to commit evils. God 'is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.' 2 Pe.3:9.
---David8318 on 10/11/10|
David, I know what the word Satan means. When I refered to him, was as he is recorded before the fall. He is the same entity, Lucifur or satan. You said,
" you believe in a very unjust God. You believe God not only created evil, but throws people into a hell-fire because of His creating people to do evil!" I never said He created them to do evil, but created them knowing they would do evil out of their hearts. He did created the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, didn't have to, knowing already they would fail. As for God been unjust, it's only your opinion. Your mind has created a god that is different then the One in the Bible. And a hell that is good. Or no hell at all. Thats what you contrived in your mind.
---MarkV. on 10/11/10|
David8313, #2: did you ever stop to consider that throughout the whole course of events there is a progress toward a predetermined end? That it was not by accident that brought Rebecca to the well to welcome Abraham's servant (Gen. 24) or that sent Joseph into Egypt (Gen. 45:8, 50:20) "God meant it for good" or guided Pharaoh's daughter to the ark among the flags (Ex. 2) That raised up Pharaoh for God's own purpose to show that God was God. Do you not see that in order for Pharaoh to be at the exact place in time, all events leading to that time, had to be perfect, or else he would have never been Pharaoh? Or the ordain event caused to winged the arrow shot to hit king Ahab in the joints of the armor (1 kings 22:34)?
---MarkV. on 10/11/10|
GLENN - I have to differ with you on this point (permits people to know Know him light or reject him) If a persom reject him, they were not chosen.
EPHESIANS 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world
PSALM 146: The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind,---
---RICHARD on 10/10/10|
Christan- It's obvious that your understanding leads you to believe that God created a Satan to wreak havoc among His perfect creation. You thus ascribe the cause of everything evil on God. Nowhere in your comments do you blame Satan for the cause of evil. Why?
Jesus' comments at John 8:44 show that the angel who became 'the Devil' was once 'in the truth'.
Also, the fact that the spirit creature who rebelled against God is given the name 'Satan' and 'Devil', shows that that creature made himself a 'Satan' and a 'Devil'. He wasn't created as a 'Satan'.
God created everything- that's true. But he created every intelligent being with free will. A man makes himself a murderer- not God. An angel makes himself a Satan- not God.
---David8318 on 10/10/10|
Probably, the Lord was correcting Cyrus who believed in a god with two opposing natures. He allows both good and evil things to occur, and permits people to know Him - light, or reject Him - darkness. Evil, H7451 rah, is not used here meaning immorality, but affliction, calamity, etc. v. 8 shows Gods intention. Job 2:10, 5:17-18, Proverbs 3:11-12, Isaiah 45:7, 1Corinthians 11:31-32, Hebrews 12:5-11, Revelations 3:19. Also Deuteronomy 28.
Mima: Congratulations as you deserve a place on the unofficial and unauthorized best and worst list, for writing the most useful blog questions, and in using a teaching artifice in order to urge people to think.
---Glenn on 10/10/10|
MarkV, it's interesting you do not use the Bible word 'Satan' or 'Devil' but rather the Latin word 'Lucifer'. Do you have a problem with the real name the Bible gives to God's chief adversary? You do not understand what the Hebrew word 'Satan' means do you?
I disagree with your understanding of God. As I've said before, and as you make abundantly clear again is that you believe in a very unjust God. You believe God not only created evil, but throws people into a hell-fire because of His creating people to do evil! You create contradiction upon contradiction! So your unjust God creates people to do evil just so that he can send them to burn for eternity!? What an unloving, unjust God you believe!
---David8318 on 10/10/10|
DAVID 8319 - 10/8/10 GOD does create evil
ISAIAH 45:7 I form light,and create darkness,I make peace, and create evil , I the LORD do all these things.
(Now I wrote that verse I have to write this One too.)
JAMES 1:12 Let no man say when he is tempted,I'am tempted of GOD, For GOD cannot be tempted with evil,neither tempteth he any man.
---RICHARD on 10/10/10|
David8313 - where in my comment did you gather that I was blaming or accusing God? I agree with MarkV when he said, "What troubles many here is their believe that it is not God's plan at all. That things are randomly happening with no one in control."
So I ask you again - if you do not believe that God created Lucifer/Satan and evil even after God declares it in His Word that "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." (John 1:3), where did these creatures popped up from? John 1:3 speaks of all creation without exception.
Be reminded what Jesus said, "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 10:33)
---christan on 10/10/10|
Wow MarkV! As dumb as I think, I am!
I can tell you, with all my heart, God Bless You!
I know there are so many here, that will not even try to understand your words.
But simply say that's not in the bible.
Sometime ago I was talking to God. (funny right!)
Basicly told me the same thing!
I told him, Good this is what people want to hear. The truth!
He told me and I quote "they will not believe"
I told him, I can explan it! This is why I call myself dumb!
He repeated "they will not believe"
I just don't want you to feel to bad!
I've come to see, it must come from God!
Again, God Bless You!
---TheSeg on 10/10/10|
David8313 #2: Not only did God create Lucifur but he was not even going to be in the Atonement plan. What troubles many here is their believe that it is not God's plan at all. That things are rendomly happening with no one in control. But this is God's plan, that He already knows how it will end. This Architect makes no mistakes, He planned and put it in action, and all the pieces fall together just as He has written it. He never makes mistakes. But people like you do not want to give that kind of credit to God or even give the control to God, it is not what you would do. Why? because people demand their free will. They want to be the determinator of their lives, not God. And what does God ask of us, to depend on Him. People do the opposite.
---MarkV. on 10/10/10|
Jack, the tree of life was never eaten from by Adam or Eve. Sorry that is not the story told in the Bible. If you belive they ate from it you must be reading a very different Bible.
David8318, did you even consider that it was the Judge Himself who put that tree in the Garden? And that knownly knew they were going to eat from it? And that He was not going to make them eat from it, but that He knew they would? And for eating from it, the world would be judge by what he did? And that because of that fall God would be able to show His mercy and love for them by giving His own Son to satisfy the very curse that God had put on mankind? And did you not consider that God knew that Lucifur would rebel against Him, and yet still created him?
---MarkV. on 10/10/10|
Col.1:16 For by him were ALL things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL things were created by him, and for him
---michael_e on 10/10/10|
Christan- so by your comments (10/4/10) you must believe a Judge, because he has knowledge of evils such as rape and murder, he also created such evils. This is faulty reasoning.
It is also false reasoning to conclude God created evils such as murder, rape, war etc, just because he had knowledge of mans propensity to cause such evils.
My question again- If someone breaks the Law causing death to others, is the Law-maker at fault or the one breaking it? When Adam broke God's Law, who was at fault- Adam or God?
God didn't create a 'Satan'. God created an angel who chose to become a 'Satan'. Look up what the Hebrew word 'Satan' means. Jesus comments show the angel who became 'the Devil' was once 'in the truth'.- John 8:44.
---David8318 on 10/8/10|
MarkV, just to say, be careful not to use Covenant where Covenant is not used. There is nothing God said to Adam stating.. "This is the Covenant I have made with you". You also say "Covenant of Grace". Nowhere is there a Covenant of GRACE found in scripture.
There are specific covenants listed. Some are conditional and some are not. But God clearly states when He makes a covenant what is involved in that covenant, a conditional covenant (works) like the Mosaic Covenant states "IF YOU WILL THEN I WILL." Involving both parties. I cannot find any such covenant between God and Adam. God simply stated...if you eat of the tree of ....you will die. Not a covenant here...just a FACT!!!
---kathr4453 on 10/8/10|
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Adam did not have to be born again before he had fallen. He could not be reborn because he was just made out of the dust of the ground. He had a covenant of works before he sinned. Get it right. He was commanded by God to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, if he did, he would die. It was a covenant of works of obedience. The rest of his descendants cannot be save by obedience, we do not have a covenant of works, but of Grace. Obedience is the evidence of someone save.
---MarkV. on 10/7/10|
No, EVIL is the absence of Holy Righteous PURE God who is LIGHT and no darkness is in Him!!!.
When you understand this, you understand WE are IN THE LIGHT as He is in the Light,
The entrance of thy words giveth light, it giveth understanding unto the simple.
78Through the tender mercy of our God, whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
This only scratches the surface!
---kathr4453 on 10/7/10|
//Adam was formed of the dust of the ground, and given the breath of physical life. Not eternal life. //
---MarkV. on 10/5/10
The Tree of Life gave them eternal life. This is why they were banished from Eden after they had sinned and why the tree is guarded to this very day. To keep sinful men from eating of it.
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
And once again... make up your mind! Adam and Eve understood God. Youve already given scripture stating only those born of the Spirit can understand the things of the Spirit. You gonna flip flop on that point now?
---JackB on 10/7/10|
Always by FAITH.
OT Saints lived on credit, that is they looked forward to Calvary, we live on debit...we look back.
Jesus Died for ALL sin for all mankind from the beginning of time when God created man to those sins of those not yet born.
That is why we can tell someone TODAY, Christ died for YOU. Christ took your sin upon Him 2000 years ago.
OT Saints were called JUST MEN...and they are NOW the spirits of JUST men made PERFECT. Their perfection came When Jesus died and rose again!! Hebrews12.
WE are perfect In Christ TODAY because Christ has risen!!
---kathr4453 on 10/7/10|
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Adam didn't have to be born again, all he had to do was obey and have eternal life. There was a condition for him. It was a covenant of works of obedience for eternal life. Though you are right, that it was God who gave him physical life.
---MarkV. on 10/5/10
Adam, Eve, Abel except for Cain placed their faith in the Promise Genesis 3:15. The PROMISE of the coming savior. Again re-iterated in Isaiah 53..that Christ would be the sin bearer, God Placing all our iniquity( sin) on Christ.
Salvation has ALWAYS been by faith( NEVER WORKS) in the promised redeemer right from Genesis to today!!!
---kathr4453 on 10/7/10|
Micha, thank you for your passages in 1 Cor. 15. I believe those passages are very clear about the condition of Adam before the fall and his descendants after the fall who are born again of the Spirit. Thank you brother. We are all for the same glory, that of Christ. Blessings
---MarkV. on 10/6/10|
No! Evil doesn't come from God. God created Satan and he become evilous.Eze 28 vs 13-19 God is Truth and so He will accept that he created Evil by the lineage of Satan. One can look at it this way too. He created Adam and Eve, should we say that Sin (Disobedience) comes from God. NO it don't. But God can also say that he created sin because he was the one who created Adam and Eve. This is the God we serve, a God who accept things when it goes wrong and work to make it right.
God is light and righteousness and he as no darkness nor evil in Him. He is wonderful and His ways are perfect.
---Faith_Building_Minis on 10/5/10|
Jack, When you ask questions it sharpens the Sword,
"So youre suggesting that God gave man a choice? Gee whiz now you sound like an Armenian"
Armenian aside, God did give Adam a choice. Adam did not have a sin nature, nor desires of the devil since his Father was God. All humanity is born doing the desires of their father the devil. They have a sin nature, spiritually dead, and are slaves to sin, Adam was not.
"Do you not believe Adam was "born of the Spirit" when he was created? The Holy Spirit is God. God breathe into his nostrils the breath of life"
Adam was formed of the dust of the ground, and given the breath of physical life. Not eternal life.
---MarkV. on 10/5/10|
Jack 2, Then you say:
"The same way we are born of the Spirit when the Holy Ghost comes to live IN us because of the blood of Christ."
No Jack, Adam was not born like we are. In order for Adam to have eternal he had to obey God. When he didn't he died and had to be born again. Born again, means just that, a second rebirth. Before Adam sinned he had not died yet. He was still alive. For all descendants of Adam we have to be born again to enter the kingdom of God. Adam didn't have to be born again, all he had to do was obey and have eternal life. There was a condition for him. It was a covenant of works of obedience for eternal life. Though you are right, that it was God who gave him physical life.
---MarkV. on 10/5/10|
1Cor 15:45-47 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural, and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
---micha9344 on 10/5/10|
Mark, idk how anything you just typed to me has anything to do with how I responded to you.
//God, if so wanted, could have left the Tree of knowledge of good and evil out of His garden and never give the possibility for anyone to eat of. He could have even made him born of the Spirit so that he would never to die a spiritual death. But didn't.// - MarkV
So youre suggesting that God gave man a choice? Gee whiz now you sound like an Armenian.
Do you not believe Adam was "born of the Spirit" when he was created? The Holy Spirit is God. God breathe into his nostrils the breath of life.
The same way we are born of the Spirit when the Holy Ghost comes to live IN us because of the blood of Christ.
---JackB on 10/5/10|
God creates from nothing, Satan can only corrupt what is alreay created.
God creates it good, Satan distorts it.
God created choice so that our love for Him could be true, yet there is the other choice.
Evil is just the absence of good, the absence of God.
So, how can a holy (just and loving) God create evil?
Darkness was there until He created light.
Empty, nothing, dark, cold, evil, the lack of anything.
Nothing was made that was made...
Maybe our interpretation and translation of 'bara' needs looking into.
---micha9344 on 10/4/10|
David8318, you said - "Knowledge of evil things does not mean one created the evil."
So, would you like to tell everyone where did evil popped out from? Or would you like to tell everyone who then created Lucifer, Pharaoh, Judas, Hitler, etc? Did all these creation of beings (including ourselves) that represented all that is wicked and evil surprised the Almighty God?
Chew on these verses -
"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." - Proverbs 16:4
"All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." - John 1:3
---christan on 10/4/10|
Cluny, you said,
"According to the Bible, knowledge is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit."
Knowledge to do good is great, knowledge to do evil is not. And since you cannot have good without having evil, when you got one, you got the other. In fact that is how they found out about sin. Yes, I would agree it was temporary, since God knew they would fall.
Just like, if there is no sin, there is no mercy, if there is no fall, their is no Atonement, it was no better time for God to show all His attributes, nature and character then by allowing or permitting sin to enter the world. Yet, He was not responsible for it, man was.
---MarkV. on 10/4/10|
\\What kind of fruit came from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil? the knowledge to know good and evil\\
According to the Bible, knowledge is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Some early Christian writers have opined that, just as babies cannot eat all foods that adults would find nourishing, so the young Adam and Eve were not ready for the knowledge of good and evil.
In other words, this would have been a TEMPORARY prohibition.
---Cluny on 10/4/10|
Jack, here is the passages for you again,
"Out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The Tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the kowledge of good and evil"
Hello, Jack, can you read this passages? Who made the garden? Answer, God. What kind of fruit came from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil? the knowledge to know good and evil. Did God make a mistake in making the Tree? No. Did He know Adam was going to sin? Answer, He knows everything. Could God have kept the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil out of His creation? Answer, Yes. He does as He wills. Did God make Adam sin? Answer: No.
---MarkV. on 10/3/10|
Augie, you say, God placed them in the garden as a test. Why would God have to test them to find out something? He already knows everything. He doesn't learn as He goes. No new information is news to Him, His is Omniscience. Sorry, He was not testing. Jack is right, He did give them a choice, that is obvious. But, did He know they would disobey? of course. Jesus was foreordained ( as a Scrifice for sin) before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:18-20. God, if so wanted, could have left the Tree of knowledge of good and evil out of His garden and never give the possibility for anyone to eat of. He could have even made him born of the Spirit so that he would never to die a spiritual death. But didn't.
---MarkV. on 10/3/10|
// God set the stage for the fall....If God's will was for Adam not to fall, God would have never made, out of the ground, the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.//-- MarkV
See this is where you always go off the deep end. What if it was Gods will simply to give Adam and Eve the CHOICE? (even if He already knew the outcome)
Its obvious that God COULD control every single action of every single thing he creates. He is powerful enough. No argument there. But is God Almighty so insecure in His reign that He NEEDS to do so?
I dont think so. Only a god who felt threatened would try to control the actions of his creation without their consent.
This is why we must REPENT. Its us giving God the green light in our lives.
---JackB on 10/2/10|
If God's will was for Adam not to fall, God would have never made, out of the ground, the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.
---MarkV. on 10/1/10
Your posts explain that sin ORIGINATED with GOD.
GOD created people -- both men and women -- to be "in fellowship" with HIM. I believe that GOD created the Garden of Eden, complete with the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and placed Adam and Eve in there, as a "test". Was GOD trying to teach them something? HE was "testing" their OWN willingness to be OBEDIENT.
Obviously, Adam and Eve FAILED the "test", and were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. People's "sinful nature" -- SPIRITUAL REBELLION -- continues today.
---Augie on 10/2/10|
Mima my Bible tells me that God planted a garden and put man there and that out of the ground the Lord God made every tree, The tree of life was also in the midst and the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. He then gave man a command, not to eat of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil, in the day he did, he would die. And since God knows all things, past, present, and future, He knew the choice Adam was going to make. By putting man in the garden and not some other place, and putting the Tree also there, God set the stage for the fall. Ultimately God didn't make him fall, Adam fell on his own. If God's will was for Adam not to fall, God would have never made, out of the ground, the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.
---MarkV. on 10/1/10|
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Mima 2: After explaining all that, I believe the fruit of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil did not make the apples evil. I believe that the evil came from the disobedience of Adam for eating something God had told him not to. If we are to assume there is such a Tree that produces evil fruit then the apples gave out evil by God's command when He made them that way. Whether they were apples or avocato's. In many cases God told Israel also not to eat certain things, but it was for them to be obedient to what He said. With Adam it was a covevant of works. Don't eat have eternal life, eat and you get death. Adam introduce "evil" or "sin" not the apple.
---MarkV. on 10/1/10|
Knowledge of evil things does not mean one created the evil. Yes a Judge may know of particular evils but does that mean the Judge created those evils- rape, murder, etc..? Is the Judge to blame for that evil? No he is not. (Christan 9/30/10)
Neither is the Great Judge GodAlmighty to blame for all the evil & suffering today. Just because God knew about all the possible evils does not mean God created the evil or is to blame for the evil experienced by many today. In fact, God warned Adam of the evil that would result in disobedience (Gen.2:17).
If someone breaks the Law causing death to others, is the Law-maker at fault or the one breaking it? When Adam broke God's Law, who was at fault- Adam or God?
---David8318 on 10/1/10|
Mima- Is.45:7 does not mean all evil comes from God. New King James Version uses the word 'calamity' ('disaster'- NIV).
God was justified in bringing evil or calamity upon Adam for his disobedience. Hence, in the scriptures God is referred to as the creator of evil or calamity. His enforcing of the penalty for sin- death -has proved to be an evil or a calamity for mankind. So then, evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by God are the Flood of Noah's day and the Ten Plagues on Egypt. But these evils were not wrongs. The proper administration of justice against wrongdoers was involved in both cases.
Jehovah God has the right to bring 'calamity' upon wrongdoers when justified- Is.45:7.
---David8318 on 10/1/10|
In the court of law where a judge presides over criminals, do you agree that he needs to have knowledge of what a murder, rape or robbery is? Yes, he must! Otherwise how else does he judge what's wrong or right? And if the judge has knowledge of the crimes committed, does it then make the judge a murderer, rapist or robber?
But alas, the judge himself is still a man before God and as far as God is concern he is a sinner. So then, when I say that God has knowledge of evil, am I saying that God is evil? Definitely NO! He is HOLY, HOLY, HOLY and in His Holiness dwells no evil!
---christan on 9/30/10|
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God does not create evil. The word "evil" should be translated "calamity".
---Gloria on 9/30/10|
The 'tree of the knowledge of good and bad (evil)', did not represent the very being of God (christan- 9/27/10). It represented God's right to determine what was 'good and bad', as its name suggests.
The warning to Adam not to eat of its fruit shows that God sets the standard as to what is 'good and bad'. Although Adam transgressed Gods law, this transgression is not chargeable to God, 'for with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire.'- Jas 1:13,14
It's thus up to each person to learn and understand from God's word the Bible what God's standards of 'right and wrong' are.- Heb.5:14.
---David8318 on 9/30/10|
Christian and Shawn T, great answers you both gave. God did not have to put the tree of Knowledge of good and evil, there in the garden. But He did. Giving the chose to Adam and Eve did not mean that God didn't know what they were going to do. For He knows all things. And to that effect, we are told that Christ "was foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world" in 1 Peter 1:20. God had prepared for the fall in infinite time. And since the plan to permit man to fall into the sin from which he was thus to be redeemed must also extend back into eternity.
---MarkV. on 9/29/10|
God is pefect, above reproach, and ultimately in complete control over all his creation. Perfect God is not blamed for the wonderful vine in the middle of the garden, for his vine in the garden was not evil, but the woman's disobeying of God's word and eating of the forbidden tree was, as it were the pandora's box, or the evil brought to man.
---Eloy on 9/29/10|
To create something does not have to mean it was created from nothing, at all. You can create what comes from what already exists, like using clay to create a pot. So, if God "creates evil", this can mean He is using what already exists and then developing where it goes and what it does. And so, if the people of Israel turned against God, He could have "evil" come to mess with them. He could channel evil people's energy so they come against the Jews, and this could interfere with the disobedient Jews so they did not get into much worse self-destruction like they would if "evil" had not gotten in their way.
---Bill_bila5659 on 9/28/10|
Every good and perfect thing comes down from the Father of Lights, in whom there is no variation or shadow.
He allows evil. God is love. Not evil.
He allows evil because he gives man a free will...he even tells man: Today I set before you life and death, choose life.
Which indicates you have a free will to choose life, not death. The wages of sin is death.
Every good thing comes down from God, satan is the prince of the power of the air...he is a thief, a liar, and is out to destroy people.
---Donna5535 on 9/28/10|
If you will notice in verse 8, God calls into being only GOOD things in much the same way He called creation into being by different commands in Genesis 1.
---Cluny on 9/28/10|
From the Orthodox Study Bible, with the OT translated from the LXX (itself based on a text older than the Masoretic):
I am He who prepared light and made darkness, who makes peace and creates troublesome things. I am the Lord who does all these things.
Let heaven above be glad and let the clouds sprinkle righteousness. Let the earth bring forth mercy and righteousness together. I am the Lord who created you.
Sounds to me that this passage is saying that ALL things that happen to us in this life are allowed by God's providence for our salvation and sanctification.
---Cluny on 9/28/10|
To Whosoever Has An Ear To Hear?
Brethren, Evil itself was Created by God, and ENTERED all of creation through the Tree of Knowledge by man's disobedience.
Creation is Perfectly Complete with everything needed to reign in the Glory of God's Fruitful Harvest !!!
The wages of sin is death... and "Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abide alone: but if it die, it bring forth much fruit." John 12:24
Those who hate their life in this evil world unto death shall keep Life Eternal through God's Gift Christ Jesus where we abide as one & Spiritually Fruitful.
... This is why the evil of sin was Created by God, as Foreseen by His Foreknowledge Before The Foundation of Creation !!!
---ShawnM.T. on 9/27/10|
the origins of evil come from disobidience to the word and will of God.pride probably being the number one instigator,satans downfall was pride,Gods creation was and is perfect,but he didn,t want mindless robots,so he gave free will,it is this free will to choose that has allowed evil into the world.
---tom2 on 9/27/10|
Candice - do not squeeze "freewill" into the sovereign work of God. For only God Himself has the freewill to will and do according to His good pleasure.
The danger of "freewill" is to deny God of His sovereignty. In other words, when a soul goes to the lake of fire, are we to understand that he chose to be condemn to eternal death when he can chose to go to heaven?
Now you see why "freewill" is from the pits of hell and deserving of eternal death?
---christan on 9/27/10|
When He said He created evil I'm thinking He was referring to Lucifer. The angel with a mind to choose what He wanted to do, therefore choosing to be evil, who is now called the devil or satan. Just because God creates a free will in someone & they choose to use it for evil does not mean that God is creating the evil. The devil & every person that does the evil is the author of the evil, NOT GOD!!! When a couple has a child & he/she grows up & becomes evil,the parents didn't intend for that child to grow up & do those things. Free will means FREE WILL. Only the evil doer is to blame for it!!
---Reba on 9/27/10|
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"Be not deceived, God is not mocked: for whatsoever a person sows, that will the person also reap. Evil will slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous will be condemned. For the day of Yhwh near upon all the nations: as you have done, it will be done to you: your reward will return upon your own head. As I live, says the Lord Yhwh, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from their way and live: turn you all, turn you all from your evil ways, for why will you all die, O house of Israel? The righteousness of the righteous will be upon them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon them. And I have created the destroyer to destroy."
---Eloy on 9/27/10|
It is amazing to think that after Jesus clarified many things while here on earth that many continue to believe God possesses evil or creates it.
Jesus clearly said that God is good .
Evil cannot exist in deity.The two,in relation to deity, are incompatable.
Above all ,deity is good and good only.Deity cannot be evil.An evil deity where which evil is created is not Deity God .
But, there are many ,even today who believe God is both.And,there is OT scripture that supports such ideas but how unfortunate that many continue to live in these OT scriptures and not in the revelation of Jesus.
---earl on 9/27/10|
Yes, evil DOES comes from GOD because HE is the creator of EVERYTHING.
Satan was once the worship leader in heaven. He rebelled against GOD, was "kicked out", and confined to planet Earth.
While GOD PERMITS evil to reign, HE sent his son Jesus Christ to "save" us. That we may "overcome" evil and have fellowship with HIM again.
Unfortunately, most people seem to have decided to continue living in sinful rebellion. That doesn't mean that GOD doesn't love those folks. Only that they are deceived.
In any case, the Bible clearly states that unless we, individually, DECIDE to overcome sin and evil via a relationship with Jesus Christ, we are doomed to HELL.
---Sag on 9/27/10|
Evil doesn't come from God!
psalm 45:7 says : You love justice and hate evil. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you, pouring out the oil of joy on you more than on anyone else.
as darkness is where there is no light, evil is where there is no God!
---Patrick on 9/27/10|
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I agree, however he gave us free agency so we can choose him instead of following evil.He is the judge in all things.
---candice on 9/27/10|
Absolutely right Shawn. The origin of evil is the knowledge of evil. And God declared this in the garden of Eden with serious consequence.
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." - Genesis 2:17
The tree was symbolic of the very being of God. And guess who created Satan and imputed him with everything that's evil? Yes, it was God and this was to serve His Holy purpose. And what was the greatest evil created? It's not Satan but DEATH!
All glory and praise to the Almighty God.
---christan on 9/27/10|
-- Mima :
Brother, That's Isaiah 45:7... and it means that God CREATED evil.
John 1:3 shares that, "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made."... So YES, evil like everything else came from God!!!
---ShawnM.T. on 9/27/10|