Church Blesses An Affair
How our Lord would view a Husband's denied affair, divorce of his wife after a long marriage and then quick remarriage (+ blessing in church) to his mistress, who was his daughter's Godmother (who had been married and divorced twice previously !) How can this be acceptable in any Christians' eyes?
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---Anonymous on 1/9/11
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I have seen pastor bless a divorce so that the church does not lose a member when husband wanted to go to another church.
---Scott on 2/18/11|
//People have actually replied, "All they have to do is tell God they are sorry and can continue their marriage" or similar words.
Agree, it is a "do as you want to, and then repent later" for what is wrong.
But they fail to realize that God does not honor that kind of repentence.
Those in Christ are being taught to abhor sins of any kind especially those that affect other people.
But usually in the end, if God's grace does not suffice for them, they will reap what they have sown. We see that nearly all the time.
---leej on 1/14/11|
I have asked several times on these blogs why Christians tolerate marriages Jesus described as adultery.
People have actually replied, "All they have to do is tell God they are sorry and can continue their marriage" or similar words.
---Cluny on 1/13/11|
A lot of christians in the church now are deluded. They feel anything the pastor does it ok,too. They dare not say anything about it in the church for fear of being put out. If anything is said against a pastor or any leader in the church, is possibly grounds for dismissal. This is why church attendance has dropped over the past years. There are so many demon spirits in the churches,now. And change must start with the pastors and other leaders in the church. Lastly, pray for our leaders. They are fighting the flesh everyday just as other christians have to do.
---Robyn on 1/13/11|
More of my comments re: officiant refusals haven't posted, but I assume there's good reason for this, so I'm moving on...
Larry, I'm sorry your mom's church is going through something similar. It happens a lot, unfortunately. I even know of a once very popular pastor who "instantly" replaced his wife with a newer version. It was really weird, because the new wife literally looked like a younger version of the former one. In fact, it happened so quickly and quietly that when I saw the new wife, I literally thought that his wife had just had a "little work" done to appear younger until whispers about the quiet split and quick remarriage turned into a full on scandal.
---AlwaysOn on 1/13/11|
My mother's church is going through this now and the deacons recoil in fear to the pastor who continues to play games and there is no repentance.
The answer to your question is that even Christians can become comfortable with sin.
See Genesis 6:5
And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and EVERY imagination of the thoughts of his heart was ONLY evil CONTINUALLY.
We are truly pathetic.
---larry on 1/13/11|
Donna, I've sent three detailed messages explaining that I may be wrong and clarification is needed. None of those msgs have posted. The one that you see from me yesterday is not the message I'm referring to, either. That one was just a note to let you know that my more detailed msgs aren't being published. Hard to explain my point without them. I did not call clergy public officials. I called them govt agents. Officiants agree to act on behalf of the govt in officiating marriages. Clergy are double agents since they officiate marriages for the government and are agents who also represent the church. Officiants do say no, but it may not necessarily be legal to do so. Govt agents are never supposed to discriminate against others.
---AlwaysOn on 1/12/11|
Mark_V, please see my three messages addressed to Donna today. Also, see the law that I posted from the State of Connecticut's constitution on 1/10. Discrimination is illegal. Period. Where I may have been wrong, however, is in assuming that a refusal based on marital status may be considered discriminatory. However, as I shared with Donna, it is possible that no one's brought it before a magistrate yet. Whether it's legal or not, I haven't been able to clarify. In now re-reading my original post, however, it was wrong for me to make such a broad statement without clarifying the law first. My apologies to the group.
---AlwaysOn on 1/12/11|
Always On-- Are clergy really "public officials"? Do they have any other "official" public function? I imagine most ministers don't consider themselves to be. They can, and do, discriminate in their membership and their hiring.
Clergy has always reserved the right to refuse a marriage, as far as I know, (e.g. Evangelical ministers may decline to marry a couple who are "unequally yoked" or obviously unstable). No one can be denied at the courthouse if they have a valid marriage license!
I can't imagine who would want to ruin their wedding by having a paster who is "forced", unwillingly, to officiate.
I'm sure it's just easier to find another clergyman...or a justice of the peace.
---Donna66 on 1/12/11|
Always on, I was not aware of this laws that you have talked about. Most of the cases I have heard of the pastors performed the services against the Church teachings and by doing so, they become separate from the main groups teachings. I have not heard of any case that the gov. forced anyone to perform cases against the will of the Church.
---Mark_V. on 1/12/11|
Donna and Lynn, twice I've submitted a direct reply to you both, but it hasn't posted. It preceded the #2 msg you see below. I'll try to send it a third time, but if it doesn't post I want you to know that the gist was that I may be wrong, but further clarification is needed (yes, ministers do refuse, but if legally challenged, is a refusal legally supported?). Also, that I'm looking into the legalities of the issue further (which is how I found the info supplied in reply #2 below). Thanks to both of you for your replies, as they've motivated me to do more research for a better understanding.
---AlwaysOn on 1/11/11|
This question is not hypothetical. I know of at least two churches whose pastors have committed these very acts. I wouldn't call these churches part of the Body of Christ.
---KarenD on 1/10/11|
Here's an example:
(Copied from the state of Connecticut's website in response to whether or not officiants can refuse to marry same-sex couples)
Connecticut law does not impose a duty on persons authorized to perform marriages to officiate a ceremony for any particular couple or establish a right for a couple to have a marriage ceremony performed by a particular authorized person. However, as is currently the case, public officials who have been authorized to perform marriages, may not refuse to perform a marriage for discriminatory reasons, in violation of the Connecticut Constitution.
Each state has its own laws, but all are also superseded by state and federal anti-discrimination laws.
---AlwaysOn on 1/10/11|
I disagree with Always-on. The law of this country does not interfere with marriage ceremonies or weddings or the rights of ministers to perform or refuse to perform marriages. I am a pastor and have on occasion refused to perform marriages I deemed unscriptural or unhealthy. No
law regulates that at all.
In fact some churches regulate what their ministers can or cannot do in this matter. But, never the State.
---Lynn on 1/10/11|
Always on--I believe Blogger is correct. Pastors have always had the right to rfuse to marry a couple. Because they are authorized by the state to perform a legal marriage, doesn't mean they are obligated to, if asked.
Marriage laws differ slightly from state to state. Check US marriage laws. EVERY state law says Marriages MAY (not SHALL) be performed by a member of the clergy (including a minister, priest, bishop, rabbi, and imam or the equivalent.
None of them REQUIRE a minister OR a judge to perform any marriage.
My brother was a state supreme court judge, often asked to perform marriages. Usually he was happy to. But occasionally he refused, even though the couple was legally entitled to marry.
---Donna66 on 1/10/11|
Not the same way you do, Anonymous. That's for certain.
Remember, God said through Isaiah that He does not even THINK the same way you do.
In any case, there may be more going on here than you know about.
---Cluny on 1/9/11|
"Marriage is a civil contract between a man and a woman, it requires a license."
This statement wasn't even true at the founding of this nation, nor for the majority of the history of mankind or marriage which rightfully (read genesis again) existed in the garden of Eden.
The church has every right to deny improper marriage, and should stand for morality in a matter like this. if they want a legal contract let them go to the justice of the peace.
---Pharisee on 1/9/11|
Blogger9211, Most church's are not able to refuse to perform a ceremony for two reasons. One, when ministers become licensed to officiate marriages, they become government agents. As such, they are bound by law to do what the government says, which includes not discriminating against others. If the govt grants a marriage license, an approved officiant cannot, by law, refuse to perform a ceremony.
Second, most churches have a federal tax exemption (i.e. 501(c)3 status). One of the conditions of that exemption is that they cannot discriminate against ANY group of individuals.
So, even if a church has a religious issue with performing a marriage ceremony, they are bound by law to perform them anyway because of their govt affiliations.
---AlwaysOn on 1/9/11|
Sounds like the church is following the doctrine of man, not God. however I think each individual should work out their own problems before worrying about people blessing other peoples marriages no matter how good or bad it looks? besides who are we to know if God even blessed them? they married out of freewill, doesn't mean their marriage was by God.
---candice on 1/9/11|
It is not acceptable in Christians eyes.
Many churches lack understanding and follow worldly trends.
The damage that husband and the church caused will affect many. But, trust in God and forgive.
God chastises those He loves. We are not going to profit by doing the wrong things, even if it is sanctioned by a church in error.
---Haz27 on 1/9/11|
Anonymous, whether it's acceptable or not, no one could legally deny them the right to legally marry. See my reply to Blogger9211 for clarification.
According to the Word of God, if what you say is true, then the Father views it all, including the new marriage, as an adulterous relationship.
As for other Christians, they accept it because many have been duped into believing that if the government approves it, then it is a marriage acceptable in God's eyes and should be honored by all. Most do not understand that what the government labels "marriage" is not the same as what God does. Don't be too hard on them...they simply do not know any better.
Forgive all involved and move on is what I'd tell the injured party.
---AlwaysOn on 1/9/11|
Sounds like a day-time soap opera. Can't see any church that knows anything about the Bible blessing such a mess.
---wivv on 1/9/11|
Marriage is a civil contract between a man and a woman, it requires a license. It requires that pastors/clerics be authorized to perform marriages by civil governments and that the marriages they perform be reported to civil governments. Churches do not have the right to say who can be married and who can't, but they do have the right to refuse the use of their facility for a service. If an a individual pastor/cleric does not approve of the union he as the right to refuse to perform the ceremony and the couple will have to go elsewhere. And that is where religious group rights end and individual rights begin with respect to marriage.
---Blogger9211 on 1/9/11|
-- Anonymous :
Brother, As the Children of the Highest we do good hoping nothing in return b/c God is kind unto the unthankful & evil. Luke 6:35
Learn to Judge not & ye shall not be Judged : Forgive & ye shall be Forgiven. Be Merciful as our Father is Merciful... for Blessed are the Merciful: for they shall obtain Mercy.
Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Know that with the same measure that you mete withal it shall be measured to you again. So, Give and it shall be given unto you, good measure, pressed down, shaken together & running over !!!
---Shawn.M.T on 1/9/11|