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What Is The Curse Of Ham

What is the curse of Ham?

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 ---tonne on 2/27/11
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flimsyaxe, "strongaxe" is a coined fake name, and there is no need to apologize to the guilty.
---Eloy on 7/14/11

Plese, enlighten us. Inquiring minds want to know. Do you really expect us to believe that the Holy Spirit himself taught you these languages from scratch?
---StrongAxe on 7/12/11

Reads like a sarcastic put down to me. Interesting.
Psalm 27:11
Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.
Job 36:22
Behold, God exalteth by his power: who teacheth like him?
Psalm 119:99
I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

Eloy...for what it's worth, i see your faith absolute and your search continual.

May the Lord always correct our mistakes and scriptural misunderstandings gently, mercifully in knowledge of same.
---Trav on 7/12/11

Strongaxe, that is the advantage of been sinless. When sin occurs it is no longer sin anymore. Sin turns to righteousness. That is the power that Eloy has, the power to never sin, because to him it is no longer sin. So when he bashes someone, mock's someone, are when he condemns someone to hell, it is no longer sin for him. Sinless people have that option.
---Mark_V. on 7/12/11


You continue to mock my name (and do so unapologetically, and defend your doing so). We, at least, do you the courtesy of calling you by the name you call yourself here. Since you mock others, by the Golden Rule, it means you must WANT others to mock you.

But you continue to avoid the question of just HOW you came to know Hebrew and Greek. Plese, enlighten us. Inquiring minds want to know. (Especially since you have repeatedly stated that you reject uninspired works such as dictionaries, grammars, etc.)

Do you really expect us to believe that the Holy Spirit himself taught you these languages from scratch? Because that's what it sounded like you were saying - I just want to be sure that we're not misinterpreting you.
---StrongAxe on 7/12/11

Trav, i actually meant if Noach's family was the only ones. you could have understood that in reading what follows. then again sorry that i did not express clearly since you don't live in my head, you cannot know what i meant
---andy3996 on 7/12/11

Well, apparently Eloy is claiming to know Biblical languages by inspiration. Let's see how well Eloy knows Greek.

genniqito to qelima sou os en ouranos ke epi tis yis. ton arton imon ton epiousion dos imin simeron.

Q is used for the Greek letter THETA.

Knock yourself out, Eloy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/12/11

andy3996, You bear false witness and misjudge again, for there is no light in you. The pet nickname handle "strongaxe" is a misnomer since I have shed light on many of his postings to be faulty and false, therefore nicknaming "strongaxe" "weakaxe" is not abusive but more fitting, for which no repentance is required: for repentance is required only from one who has sinned, and not from one who sheds light on sin.
---eloy7794 on 7/12/11

Having read a number of the comments, it is very clear that some people will persist with their religious verbiage and be convinced by anything that appears to support their own prejudices.

Yet, this is America and it is not surprising that everything would be used to preserve the cherished illusions that have become part of the essential fabric of the American character.

I would have preferred that those who hold such odious and ungodly positions were bold enough to state their convictions without resorting to the deceitful covering of sanctimonious tripe.
---Allan on 7/12/11

tonne, When Ham saw his father Noah lying uncovered naked he should have covered him and told noone, but instead he went and told his brothers to come and look at their father asleep and exposed naked. So Noah cursed his offspring saying that his child Canaan will be a slave of slaves to his two brothers, which two brothers did right by covering their father's nakedness.
---Eloy on 7/11/11

\\weakaxe, Keep imagining vain things, and mocking the saints who have the Holy Spirit, whom teaches the One Way of righteousness, and you certainly will remain separate and remain in the dark.
---Eloy on 7/11/11\\

Notice that Eloy did not actually refute Strongaxe's statement, but merely called him names and mocked him.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/11/11


I was not mocking you. I was asking you how you learned Hebrew and Greek, offering several means that are traditionally offered for learning other languages (books, angels, magical stones).

Instead of mocking my name, why don't you, instead, answer the following questions:

1) Where did you actually learn to read Hebrew and Greek?

2) Where does the Bible (chapter and verse, please) does it say that Ham means "black or dark color"?

(Or, alternatively, point out to dictionary that says so, although I doubt you will want to do so, given your stated contempt for uninspired books such as dictionaries).
---StrongAxe on 7/11/11

If Noah is the only one that survives, then the children of noah have to turn to eachother for reproduction... that was MY point.
---andy3996 on 7/4/11

Noah was not the only survivor. He had his family.
There were also other civilizations that march right through the flood period. Who were already the race they were.
GOD didn't take one who was perfect in his generations and immediately mix them up.
Genesis 6:9
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
---Trav on 7/11/11

Scripture does not anywhere say black skin is the curse of Ham. And it wasn't even Ham who was cursed, but his son Canaan! (Gen. 9:18, 25, 10:6). And Canaan's descendants were probably medium brown-skinned anyway.(Gen. 10:1519).

In 1958 Bruce McConkie, Apostle of the Mormon Council of 12, Mormon Doctrine, p. 554, 1958, stated: "We know the circumstances under which the posterity of Cain (and later of Ham) were cursed with what we call Negroid racial characteristics."

In 1929 The Watchtower, p. 702, 24 July stated "The curse which Noah pronounced upon Canaan was the origin of the black race"

Slavery and other nonBiblical practives and racist attitudes have been justified by false teaching about Ham.
---Warwick on 7/11/11

The Mormon Church considers the "mark of Cain" to be a black skinned person.
---mima on 7/11/11

andy3996, Scripture clearly reads that "Ham" means. "black or dark color", and this is not a mere insinuation, but rather this is the truth written in the holy scripture. I accept this simple and plain truth, and I go on.
---Eloy on 7/11/11

andy, there is no coorelation between the name "Ham", and the word "kedar".

Eloy, EXACTLY my point. Just as there is NO insinuation towards BLACK in Ham, yet there is in Cush, Kedar and other words in the Old Testament. by the way isn't calling someone weakaxe whilst his name is Strongaxe abusive? i wished that moderators would penalise such discriminating and unchristian actions. and you ELOY need to repent.
---andy3996 on 7/11/11

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weakaxe, Keep imagining vain things, and mocking the saints who have the Holy Spirit, whom teaches the One Way of righteousness, and you certainly will remain separate and remain in the dark.
---Eloy on 7/11/11


If you do not look at uninspired Greek and Hebrew dictionaries, how can you possibly read copies of the Bible manuscripts and understand what they mean?

Where did you learn to read Hebrew and Greek? Did an angel from on high teach it to you, or give you magical translation stones (like Joseph Smith claimed)? If not, you had to have learned it from SOMEWHERE, and that place was likely a book.
---StrongAxe on 7/11/11

willa5568, you err, for the Holy Scripture is God's words which is proven to be 100% true, and is higher than man's words which have proven to be untrue. To me the Holy Scripture makes 100% sense, but whenever any human twists it by adding or taking away from it then it no longer makes sense, for by twisting the Holy Truth with nonInspired words the end result is proven to be NonTruth and Lie, rather than the proven Truth.
---Eloy on 7/10/11


how do you suppose we got the English translations? Without scholars of a language you cannot know what the words mean, Unless of coarse you can read Greek and Hebrew. Thats what dictionaries are for and study is not limited to reading scripture because then you are trusting in what men say is correct. Contrary to what most say(if this is your stance) the KJV is not inspired as those who translated it would agree and totally reject the claim that it was. Take advantage of the resources we have and God will reveal a great deal more than what a mans limited translation skills can.
---willa5568 on 7/10/11

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andy, there is no coorelation between the name "Ham", and the word "kedar".
---Eloy on 7/6/11

andy, I recalled the Holy Scripture which is God's inspired Word, and not any noninspired manmade Hebrew and Greek dictionary, so I do not need your help when it comes to preaching the truth. Please know that manmade dictionaries are fallable, but God's Word is not. And therefore since God's Word is proven to be more sound then man's words are, we should rely moreso upon the holy scripture rather than upon what a person writes in their dictionaries.
---Eloy on 7/5/11

looking at songs of Solomon 1:5-6 we can read something very beautifull where it is read black am I yet comely like the tents of kedar.
BLACK here is CHaHoR literaly black, KeDaR here means dark... KeDaR is also a tribe and so in both cases we can see that some assumme the shaulamite to be black, which is a misrepresentation just as HaM is not exclusively Black or Arab. this is science
---andy3996 on 7/5/11

well Eloy if i lie then my hebrew-english dictionary lies
i dont think or recall, i open it instantly to verify.
so i cannot help you here, if your book says one and mine says another then its better for us to ghet our money back from the publishers :-)
---andy3996 on 7/5/11

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andy3996, That is not true. I recall that the name "Ham" literally comes from the Hebrew root "Hwm", meaning black or dark color, as in Genesis 30:32,33,35,40: "...and all the 'hwm' (lit.'black') cattle among the sheep...and 'hwm' (lit.'black') among the sheep...and all the 'hwm' (lit.'black') among the sheep...and all the 'hwm' (lit.'black') in the flock of Laban."
---Eloy on 7/5/11

actually Cham, or ham means hot. rather then Cush that means dark. Cham is also a description of the Egyptian coptics, a very lightcoloured almost completely white people that dwelt in the Nile delta, and founders of the first Egyptian dynasties. also it must be noted that i advocated that no people could claim to be 100 percent Ham free. If Noah is the only one that survives, then the children of noah have to turn to eachother for reproduction... that was MY point.
---andy3996 on 7/4/11

andy3996, In the past I recall doing a study on the hebrew roots of the names "Ham" and "Shem" and "Japheth". And if I recall correctly the name Ham does indeed mean black or dark, and Shem meant light, and Japheth meant yellow. So it would not be far-fetched to think that these three sons of Noah each had one of these three different colors of skin, from which the whole world was repopulated by after Noah's flood had destroyed all life in the world.
---Eloy on 7/4/11

Thanks Kath, we all need a bit of fun sometimes.
---Warwick on 7/3/11

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what astonnishes me in this entire discussion, is the pressumption that black equals Ham. others assume that palesinians and indeed canaanites equal ham, nevertheless true to some extenct, the whole picture is just a touch more complicated than this. the children of Ham, Shem and Japhet dwelt together for another few hundreds of years so all of them must have intermarried. noone today can say there's not a percentage of ham within him
---andy3996 on 7/3/11

Elder, yes, Although my personal constitution is not very strong in making up jokes, I do appreciate good levity. Two of my favorite TV shows are "America's Funniest Videos" and "Candid Camera", because they produce healthy laughter from me, which is a good thing, especially in this dark age of very trying times. Thanks again. Jesus bless you real good.
---Eloy on 7/3/11

The Eloys I have known were males, with a Basque heritage.
---John.usa on 7/2/11

Warwick, that was TOOOOO funny! Priceless!

---kathr4453 on 7/2/11

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Hams curse was the appearance of a massive sty in his eye. The disease changed his personality making him rasher. This caused him to throw away dietary caution and he made a pig of himself, always with his snout in the trough,a real swine at the table, ending up quite porky. This depressed him so he jumped off a cliff to drown. Fortunately a fisherman saw him and saved his bacon. Being a good Samaritan he took him to a doctor who cured him.

His luck changed when he gained a job at sporting events, walking onto the field shouting gammon!
---Warwick on 7/2/11

Thanks Eloy. I knew you would take this as the joke it was meant to be. God Bless you.
---Elder on 7/1/11

Isn't Eloy a girl?
---Warwick on 7/1/11

Eloy's girlfriend sounds/smells like a pig!

Just Kidding Eloy..couldn't resist Elder's quip!
---kathr4453 on 7/1/11

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Elder, that's funny.
...nah, I don't have a girl friend.
---Eloy on 6/30/11

---John on 6/30/11

"It is salty, fatty, chewy, greasy, smelly, and disgustingly gross, yuk."
Eloy stop talkin' 'bout your girlfriend we are speakin' bout' ham!
---Elder on 6/30/11

It is salty, fatty, chewy, greasy, smelly, and disgustingly gross, yuk.
---Eloy on 6/30/11

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O.....K......I've gotten lighter. thanks
---shira3877 on 6/30/11

Hahahaha shes obviously jokin Shira. Lighten up a bit :)
---CraigA on 6/29/11

the curse of ham is really an Israli law forbidding the eating of ham? really? Please show me where you get in scripture
---shira3877 on 6/29/11

The curse of ham was when Israel under the law could not eat ham.
---kathr4453 on 6/28/11

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tonne your silence speaks louder than words. No one should be allowed to sodomize or rape anyone else and we should NEVER condone or love the person who does such an abomination.
---cjmybad on 5/18/11

I didn't hear from tomme - can anyone else explain his comment "Anotherwords, to use sodomy on a fellow brother or sister of Christ in order to gain their portion or inheritance is wicked works. However, we love them just the same regardless of their ways." Can you explain that to me?
---cjmybad on 5/16/11

tonne - I didn't understand this part of your answer "Anotherwords, to use sodomy on a fellow brother or sister of Christ in order to gain their portion or inheritance is wicked works. However, we love them just the same regardless of their ways." Can you explain that to me?
---cjmybad on 5/13/11

South Africa ...BLESSED!!!

It's very very sad Ursh. The descendents of Ham indeed exist today.
---John on 3/10/11

We may lose a world blessing tempor...our GOD is stronger than sticks and chickens.
We will all unite in prayer one of these days soon...calling upon the GOD of Abraham,Issac and Jacob. We win....hmmm....we've already won. Sing,pray thanks.
Jeremiah 46:16
He made many to fall, yea, one fell upon another: and they said, Arise, and let us go again to our own people, and to the land of our nativity, from the oppressing sword.
Jeremiah 47:6
O thou sword of the LORD, how long will it be ere thou be quiet? put up thyself into thy scabbard, rest, and be still.
---Trav on 3/11/11

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South Africa was one of the most beautiful and richest nation on earth BLESSED!!!

Very productive farms, that has been destroyed and now the farms no longer produce.

Sadly tolerance goes only one way in this world.

It's very very sad Ursh. The descendents of Ham indeed exist today.
---John on 3/10/11

Do you not read South African news papers and watch our media? The corruption coming from our government is nothing short of comming straight from the pit of hell.
---ursh on 3/8/11

Your news and worse news north of you is hidden over here. It is atrocity news and it should be front page most days.
Our (stock-pen) media is corrupt. Almost totally.
We have one of your satan's boy's leading now. Look how interesting our situation and news is becoming.
Sheep bleet the goats lead them slaughter. You've seen the movie....even a "pig" can herd sheep.
Matthew 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
---Trav on 3/10/11

Canaan and all His descendents even after the cross of Calvary, were still servants until 1995 when "changes" took place in South Africa. In the rest of the world they are still servants and servants of servants. If the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ changed their status, why were they still servants for another almost two thousand years after the new covenant of the cross of Calvary? That does'nt look like they were set free from the curse at all. And even though they are ruling (in a land that does not belong to them) they are corrupt and deceitful beyond description. Do you not read South African news papers and watch our media? The corruption coming from our government is nothing short of comming straight from the pit of hell.
---ursh on 3/8/11

Even though the tribe of Ham has it faults we should not use our curses for fame and prosperity. Anotherwords, to use sodomy on a fellow brother or sister of Christ in order to gain their portion or inheritance is wicked works. That the point I am trying to make. However, we love them just the same regardless of their ways.
---tonne on 3/6/11

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joseph, (not posted) I wanted to thank you for your correction. I went into the web and check on Ham, and while doing that I found so many interpretations that are not in Scripture, I guess written by certain writers a long time ago. One was that Ham sodomized Noah while he was asleep. We do know the brothers walked backwards because they didn't want to see him naked. When we look back at their times, they did some nasty stuff then. I suppose a lot of nasty stuff happens today too, we just don't see it, but we are not in Scripture. They were.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/11

If there isnn't a curse on Canaan how come their country is without food and water (or at least thats what I have seen on Feed the Children) and people take over their diamond mines? Isn't it because they devour stars? When a star falls from heaven by another ethnic it usually leaves devastation upon the earth and the people that caused it usually suffer the most. Droughts, faminine, etc...
---tonne on 3/3/11

Thank you MarkV and StrongAxe for bringing the error to my attention. You are of course correct, the verses say nothing about Ham "uncovering his father's nakedness." Verse 22 simply reads that he "saw the nakedness of his father". When I read that verse, this verse came to mind "'The nakedness of your father's wife you shall not uncover, 'it is your father's nakedness'." I in turn read something into the verses that was not actually stated. My bad.
---joseph on 3/4/11


Nowhere in Genesis 9 does it make any mention of Ham having relations with Noah's wife. It is very clear that the Ham SAW Noah lying naked in his tent, and his brothers made it a point to carefully avert their eyes so as not to SEE him too. This is all about seeing, and nothing about adultery.

Leviticus 20:11 says that IF you have relations with your father's wife, you uncover his nakedness. But it doesn't say the reverse is always true. To assume such is a common logical fallacy.

For example, making an idol is an abomination (Deuteronomy 27:15). However, not everyone who commits an abomination is an idolater - one might be a shrimp-eater instead (Leviticus 11:10).
---StrongAxe on 3/3/11

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Joseph, I have been following this topic for a while and read where you stated that Ham slept with Noah's wife. I find nothing on that in Scripture. You gave Lev. 20:10 is a law that God gave but nothing on Ham sleeping with Noah's wife, or his mother or even step-mother. Can you guide me to where you found that?
---Mark_V. on 3/3/11

that joke is pretty funny, 1st cliff.
---aka on 3/2/11

1st cliff, that's funny.
---Eloy on 3/2/11

Eloy, You sound like the guy who went into the restaurant where the special was "chicken tongues"
"Oh I never eat anything coming out of a chicken's mouth" the customer said .
"Do you have any eggs?"
---1st_cliff on 3/2/11

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\\It also states that Ham "knew" (Can be interpreted sexually in parts of the Bible) his fathers nakedness?\\

The Hebrew word YADAH is used almost 900 times.

The KJV generally renders it as "know" or a tense thereof.

Of these 900 times, contrary to popular wisdom, only about 10 of them, that is around 1%--does YADAH have sexual significance.

Not much, is it?

Almost 99% of the time, it means "to have cognitive experience of something/someone"--that is "to know" in the ordinary non-sexual sense.
---Cluny on 3/2/11

WHEW! For a moment there, I thought this blog was going to be yet another screed about the evils of eating pork!
---Donna66 on 3/2/11

There are those who believe that the first 3 gospels are addressed to the 3 seeds of Noah in ways they can relate to.

Matthew (Shem/Jews)
Christ the King or deliverer

Mark (Ham/Canaan)
Christ the servant

Luke (Japheth/Gentiles)
Christ the man

John (all)
Christ the one true God
---Jasheradan on 3/2/11

There are people who say Ham was cursed and that Afros came from Ham and so they are cursed to be servants. But Genesis nine shows me that Canaan was cursed, and Genesis chapter ten shows that Ham had other sons, not only Canaan.

But > even if someone has been cursed by God Himself, all curses have been nailed to the cross, with our sins. So, we who trust in Jesus leave all curses behind. And "bless those who curse you," we have in Matthew 5:44.

Also, I notice how ones in the South holding slaves could be always in fear of the slaves rising up and taking over or running off. So, that fear made the slave holders slaves of Satan.
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/2/11

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I apologize Joseph I did it again. joseph, with a lowercase j sent the post on 3/1/11 and that post may or may not reflect the thoughts of Joseph who also post on these blogs. Just FYI
---joseph on 3/1/11

isn't Canadian bacon really more like really salty ham than bacon?
---aka on 3/1/11

"What is the curse of Ham?" There was none
The curse was intended for Canaan (Gen 9:25) Noah placed this so called curse on Canaan because he was a constant reminder to him, first of his sons disrespect and betrayal, and of his shame in allowing it to happen due to his lack of restraint and the resulting drunkenness. Ham uncovered his father's nakedness by laying sexually with his father's wife (Lev 20:11), and Canaan was the result. That is the only way for Canaan to have been the brother of Shem and Japheth. Noah could not curse Ham because man can not curse those that the Father has blessed, (Num 23:20) And Ham had been blessed. (Gen 9:1) Noah was unjustified in cursing Canaan because Canaan had done no wrong.
---Joseph on 3/1/11

alan, I personally do not eat anything from the pig: no ham, no bacon, and no pork for me. I prefer not to eat it. And I also do not eat oysters, octopus, squid, snails or slugs or any other things that sound and look and smell yucky to me. And when I do eat poultry or lamb or cow or venison or fish, it must be well-done and well-cooked through and through.
---Eloy on 3/1/11

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I dont think so Lisa. Even ancient China has a legend that is very similar to the story of Noah and Ham (different names) and in that legend Ham looked at his father's nakedness and went to his brothers laughing about it. The other 2 didnt find it funny.
---Jasheradan on 2/28/11

Alan you would hav'ta be marinaded in cider and wine overnight to eat my cooking.
"Nimrod was no saint either."
Niether was Mona or Elder.
---Elder on 3/1/11

Alan, may I come to dinner? :D Hehehe! You do sound like a great cook :)
---Mary on 2/28/11

Canaan's curse was towards sodom. Could Ham have sabotaged his brethren Shem and Japeth towards sodom via sorceries to try and put their curse on Shem and Japeth in the end times? The only 2 geneologies that mention sodom are Roman and Ham. It also states that Ham "knew" (Can be interpreted sexually in parts of the Bible) his fathers nakedness? Is it possible that he sodomized his father?????
---lisa on 2/28/11

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Nimrod was no saint either.
---mona on 2/28/11

Eloy ... How could you be so rude about ham? Well cooked, it is a very palateable meat. In cook it myself, having marinaded the joint in cider, or wine overnight before cooking. Sometimes I add different spices to the marinade, or herbs.

And it always come out delicious.

But I don't like the shop bought sliced ham, which is just bits reconstituted. I don't know what they do to make it all stick together, but it is yucky!
---alan8566_of_uk on 2/28/11

It is a grotesque meat, everywhere you look, ham, ham, ham. It is disgusting, they even put it in turkey...they selling "turkey-ham", what is that?! half turkey and half ham, or a genetically modified organism of a turkey with a snout, or a pig with feathers?...I jest.
---Eloy on 2/28/11

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