1 Tim. 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
While there can be few things worst than a yakky yak woman who talks excessively, Paul wrote his letter to Timothy at Ephesus where the chief diety was Artemis (Diana) and women were the religious leaders.
So the problem we face is trying to interpret Bible verses away from the context in which they were written.
---leej on 5/25/11|
Andy -- Westerners practice "serial monogamy" i.e. one wife (husband) at a time.
There are some that marry once for a lifetime, however. These are marriages where neither spouse feels disrespected, where neither expects to get their own way ALL the time. They do not keep score of their own contributions or their partners wrong doings.
If a woman feels loved and valued for attributes beyond just sexual ones, she will usually respond by seeking ways to make her husband happy.
---Donna66 on 5/17/11|
John thank you so nice of you to say my post was great,it means a lot.
---Darlene_1 on 5/17/11|
Great post Darlene1!!!
Maybe some of these "men" should consider Islam.
---John on 5/16/11|
It seems we all refer to the husband in a topic of submission to the wives.It has been in my testimony that our women are influenced by the world rather than guidance from elder women in the church. We still are to live by the living word god the Father gave us even though he doesn't answer our prayers our way. It is then we seek self satisfaction instead of doing what he guides us to do. It is hard to be submissive just as men are to be submissive to God as he tells us. See men are brides too.
---skysthelimit73 on 5/16/11|
Darlene you said:
"men who think that overbearing,controlling,bullies who make their wives life a hell on earth"
Unfortunately likewise there are women who are selfish, demanding, critical, vengeful, unforgiving who make life hell on earth for husbands.
Sadly, loving such partners does not necessarily mean they will change for the better.
---Haz27 on 5/16/11|
The same reason Christians sin and do not always follow God's instructions. The church is the bride of Christ and the wife is the bride of the husband.
---Scott on 5/16/11|
Mary thank you for those kind words. I'm always glad to see you are on here. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/16/11|
wives are to submit to their husbands. But not in the way most understand it. They are to submit as Sarah did with Abraham, whom she trusted and loved as a man willing to obey God. Husbands are to love their wifes as Christ loves His church, which He gave His life for. He also gave an example in this in serving others not seeking to be served. Another thing the scripture speaks of is submitting ourselves to one another and putting others above ourselves. If a wife truly loves her husband her actions, not her words, prove it's authenticity. Be a godly women and remember what your hope is my dear sisters.
---willa5568 on 5/11/11|
Wow--very wise and thought-provoking words Darlene. You're sooooo right on! :)
---Mary on 5/11/11|
Perhaps wives have seen too many"Christian husbands" who think submission means being a mans slave,without mind or,voice,or desires of her own. That often makes the men who think that overbearing,controlling,bullies who make their wives life a hell on earth. As others have pointed out "husbands love" carries just as much weight as submit,in fact if a man loves his wife as Christ loves the church there would be no problems. A loved wife is happy to bless the husband who blesses her but none of it comes through using a heavy hand or unrealistic demands. Love is gentle,kind,caring,seeks not its own way above others. A man shapes his life and his marriage by his own behavior.
---Darlene_1 on 5/10/11|
Submission is only the one side: the wife submits, the husband loves
The proper marriage must involve both, not just submission
---Peter on 4/8/11|
Andy, you are right about the West. It is not that people forgot the teachings of Jesus, but that many don't even know the teachings or even care about morals. Just about my whole state of California is liberal, everyone wants their rights, even those in prison. But lets call it what it is, Sin. In other countries other kind of sins are more evident. Each country has their own sins. If the order of God was done we would not have any problems. But as we know that order of God is hardly met. God can never demand lesser than perfect, for He is perfect. He says, "Do not sin" yet never does He say, "sin a little." Or He will say, "love your wives" yet never say, "love your wives a little."
---Mark_V. on 4/8/11|
well Mark V, it's only in the West that monogamy has been idealised, and still seeing the rate of divorces in the west it seems that the west is very busy in forgetting everything the Lord teached so this point i made is very up to date and according the topic. does a christian woman still needs to obey her divorced husband in matters of education? does a christian wife has the right to rebel against her unbelieving husband.
remember many christians became this after a lifetime of worldliness. you talk about people who are born in a christian household, (as i was) i talk about people who are born again. so no other topic needed
---andy3996 on 4/7/11|
andy, the subject about husbands and wives is about one husband and one wife. Not one husband and many wives. The command is to the husband. How are husbands commanded? "To love their wife" Just as Christ loved the church. Just as Christ gave Himself for her. The goal of Christ love for His church is to present her to Himself a glorious church, Not having any spot or wrinkle or any such thing. That she should be holy and without blemish.
If a husband demands something the wife disagrees with, he is not loving her. You bring religion into the picture. Which calls for another topic of not equally yoke.
---Mark_V. on 4/4/11|
wives should submit in all things.are wives to submit if the husband takes a second wife?
is the wife to submit if the husband descides to worship other gods?
does the wife need to submit if the husband desires illicite sexual actions? (even within the conjugal bed). it stands beyond reason that in everything refers to the LORD. and in everything implies within the christian atmosphere. for example: if a woman is a charismatic and she marries a presbyterian then it is the wife that should follow the man to his chhiurch without trying to manipulate him because she thinks her denomination is better. but on the other hand, there is biblical limitations to the "in everything" frase as well.
---andy3996 on 4/1/11|
Men loving their wives should involve:keeping God first in the relationship(stay balanced)making sure the bills are paid,treating her as an equal,respecting her as a mother and wife(in front of the kids and others),spending quality time together,being intimate on a regular basis, attending church together,having fun and respecting each other in the relationship.Always protect(very important) and love(very important)your wife. Keep the lines of communications open. This is a partial list. Each person needs and desires are different.God bless.
---Robyn on 3/30/11|
We can't be "true" Christians and not abide by the word of God. The Bible is our set of instructions on how to "operate" according to the purpose for which we were created. It tells how to be men (Proverbs 31:1-9, 1 Tim 3:1-10, Eph 5:25). It tells how to be women (and this is coming from a woman, Prov 31:10-30). If our wives aren't being submissive, are we being the men we're supposed to be and loving them as Christ loved the church? Put this into perspective...AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH!!! Meditate on that, apply the love of Christ in your marriage and see if your wife becomes willingly submissive. And remember, overnight miracles only come by 'mountain-moving' faith.
---Paul on 3/29/11|
//Willingly submit IN WHAT?//
Submitting simply means serving each other in love.
---aka on 3/29/11|
Peter, the Scriptures are clear, in all things. Why does it say all things? Because the husband is the head of the wife in two ways,
1. Just as Christ is head of the Church.
2. Just as Christ is Savior of the body.
In what area's are they to submit ? All things.
1. What does "all things" mean? In what why? Just as the Church is subject to Christ.
This is the character of the New Man. Colossians 3:12 begins with how we should conduct ourselves towards each other. If a man does not love his wife or vice versa, the whole submission becomes worthless. "giving thanks in always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another in the fear of God..." Eph. 5:20-31.
---Mark_V. on 3/29/11|
I'd have to agree with Peter. Submit in what? And in cases where compromise is not possible and a decision has to be made.
Some men want to control and are on a power trip and wouldn't know what love is if they fell over it. These kinds of men are abusers and should not marry anyone IMHO.
Without looking for excuses, the Bible clearly states that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church. If you mistreat your wife then your prayers will not be heard. You are the head so start acting like it.
Christ was a servant leader. He gave himself for the church. How many husband's are servant leaders? How many husband's unselfishly love their wives? How many husband's would give their lives for their wives?
---poopsey on 3/29/11|
Before such a question can be answered, another question must be asked:
Willingly submit IN WHAT?
There are cases where submission is wrong, and sinful, if the husband wants something not of God
The ifea of submission is only when the husband wants something, the couple are not able to find a proper compromise where both will enjoy it, but the matter is important enough that one of the two (what the husbandwant or what the wife wants) must be done. Then the husband may, lovingly, insist the wife obeys.
These cases are relatively rare!
---Peter on 3/28/11|
Poopsey: My previous comment was from answers "some" women have given to the blog question to my hearing that "it is because their husbands do not love them enough that is why they are not submitting". It is only a good woman that will accept that her husband loves her because no man can ever love perfectly like God/Christ.
---Adetunji on 3/28/11|
//Even if the man does not keep things in order, the wife still has the responsibility to pray for him not justify submission to each other.//
Even if the man does not keep things in order, the wife still has the responsibility to pray for him and to justify not submitting to each other.
BTW, everybody, Submitting just means serving each other in love.
---aka on 3/27/11|
if you would take a step back you would see that i was not attacking your post at all. i was using a phrase of yours.
If i was addressing you, i would say your name, but when Christ said 'you', he means all of us. I was addressing all of us.
Even if the man does not keep things in order, the wife still has the responsibility to pray for him not justify submission to each other.
So, what comes first? who cares... we all have a responsibility to do what we need to do.
---aka on 3/27/11|
aka??? Who's blaming? I think it is a lot of men that don't want to love their wives and are looking for excuses to justify their behavior.
Attack my post if you want but I was responding to someone else that seems to think women should submit first.
If you are mature then both parties love each other, take care of each other, and submit to each other. It is a partnership. The two become one and work as a unit.
Anything good or bad that one does affects the other. That is why when husbands hurt their wives they also hurt themselves at the same time.
---poopsey on 3/27/11|
//Which came first? //
This does not matter to the Lord. Just 3 chapters into the Bible, it points out our bad habit of blaming another.
Seek ye (YOU) first all righteousness (JESUS) and everything will be added.
---aka on 3/26/11|
Order of instructions??? Are you using that to justify not loving your wife as Christ loved the church? So you are not responsible for loving your wife and being the head of your household if your wife doesn't submit to you first? No wonder there are so many bad marriages out there. Men are always looking for excuses not to love their wives.
Which came first? Did Christ give his life for the church or did the church submit to him. Really think about this one. The church didn't exist until after Christ died on the cross.
Also, since the husband is the leader I would think that means he leads and doesn't follow what his wife does or does not do.
---poopsey on 3/26/11|
In 2 portions of the Bible where this issue is addressed (Eph.5:22-25, 1Pet.3:1-7, there may be more), wives were 1st told to submit to their husbands, then the husbands to love/honour their wives. Why do "some" women(not all) want to reverse the order of this instructions?
---Adetunji on 3/25/11|
Maybe because they are not being LOVED by their husbands as Christ loved the Church?
---Cluny on 3/22/11
because most of them are not showing respect for husbands who do love as Christ loves the church.
---aka on 3/25/11|
I think a better question for you to consider would be why are you not submitting to Christ by loving your wife as Christ loved the church? This is a sacrificial kind of love and not a self-centered kind of love where you are more concerned with what you are getting rather than what you are giving.
Also, husbands are to love their wives as they love themselves. If you hate and mistreat your wife and hurt her then you are hurting yourself also. So few real honest and caring Christian men with integrity.
Be careful not to marry men who have these attitudes. They are more than likely abusers.
---poopsey on 3/25/11|
But are the wife and husband equal? Well, Jesus prayed that we will be "one as We are," He prays in John 17:11. So, I would say Jesus in prayer according to His faith has claimed that we in marriage will be one in the same beautiful and sweet and intimate sharing that our Heavenly Father and Jesus enjoy, in Their "love of God . . . poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (in Romans 5:5)
Also, "the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does," we have in 1 Corinthians 7:4. So, there is submission of the man to his lady, I'd say (c:
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/23/11|
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If a "Christian" man thinks that submissive means the woman should be under his control and be subserviant to him - this is NOT Biblical, but is ABUSIVE and WITCHCRAFT according to the Bible. Submissive means RESPECT. This means that there is to be equal love and respect for both male and female in the marriage, and equal partnership in unity in marriage, NOT one dominating over the other - yes, I mean women over men too, it goes both ways ladies.
---Leslie on 3/23/11|
well first cliff depends where in islamic country you live. some are quite modern, and some even more liberal then most christians. the difference is they express their liberty differently.
---andy3996 on 3/23/11|
It's only recently that women have been emancipated,in the past they were bought,sold and traded like chattel. Ex-Solomon's 700 wives and 300 concubines.
Still today the Islamic woman is totally dominated by men as she must peek out from under the hood (burka)she's forced to wear!
Christian men and women are "partners"
---1st_cliff on 3/23/11|
brothers and sisters,before everyone gets emotional first look at what scripture says,the discription of how men are to lead,and treat their wives is demanding,and few men adhere to it,but they sure are quick to point out what their wives arent doing,first remove the LOG from your eye then you might be able to see the splinter in your wifes eye.
---tom2 on 3/22/11|
When a husband is all that he should be, loves his wife, treats her with gentleness & respect. Follows the Lord teachings in protecting his wife, Puts her above all others, She knows he is willing to die for her to protect her if necessary... Its been my experience that it just comes natural to submit to that kind of a man. The woman feels loved, protected, secure. If she isn't submitting, look in the mirror & in your own heart. Change that & the rest will follow.
---Reba on 3/22/11|
Speak for yourself and nobody else Emmanuel. You don't know what goes on in everybody's life. At our house, my husband and I submit to each other. But, primarily we submit to the Lord for guidance in everything we do. You looking for a submissive woman or a slave?????
---KarenD on 3/22/11|
Christian women need the same thing other women need. So-called christian men want to walk all over the christian woman,because she is submissive, then they respect the unchristian women. Christian women have to be assertive, in certain areas. Submitting does not mean to lie down and be a doormat, for anyone! You,sir, need to understand and then begin to live out the priniciples of submission. Men must be submissive to their wives also. Submit simply means to respect one another. It is a two way street.
---Robyn on 3/22/11|
God's love for us is a PARENTAL love (ROMANTIC love is the kind for marriage).
The man of the marriage should be honorable/respectable and WORTH ADMIRATION by the woman (yes, men have responsibilities too). The man should be admirable so that the woman can feel just like in the...
Song of Songs 3:2
"I seek whom MY SOUL loves".
If the man TRULY loves the woman, there will be NO objectionable demands placed on her....of course, many PATHETIC _____ will be disappointed to know this.
God put the Song of Songs in scripture as an example of how our hearts should be. Honor/glorify God by your actions, attitudes and marriage.
Love your wife ADMIRABLY.
---more_excellent_way on 3/22/11|
Cluny got it correct. You win the prize Cluny...that's the truth. At least it was in my situation/marriage.
---Donna5535 on 3/22/11|
As a Christian woman, I am more than willing to submit to my future husband. The problem is that "Christian" men are believing and teaching the word submit WRONG. The word submit does NOT mean to be subserviant to or under the control of men, but to be RESPECTFUL OF men. According to the Bible, since Genesis, man and woman were COMMANDED by God to walk in UNITY as EQUAL PARTNERS, NOT men dominating over women. This is why "Christian" men have it WRONG, and why Christian women will NOT adhere to this kind of "submission", because it is NOT Biblical, but ABUSE.
---Leslie on 3/22/11|
Emmanual, why aren't Christian men willingly loving their wives and not demanding submission?!!
---Mary on 3/22/11|
Maybe because they are not being LOVED by their husbands as Christ loved the Church?
---Cluny on 3/22/11|
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One basic reason would be if a woman does not obey the Bible, maybe is not a Christian but claims to be. Also, there are men and churches who don't believe in wives submitting to their husbands "in everything", "just as the church is subject to Christ" (Ephesians 5:24). You can't do this and enjoy this unless you are Christian, meaning submissive in love's "incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (in 1 Peter 3:4)
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/22/11|
Depends on your version of submit.We're not doormats nor slaves.We are women, daughters of God.We need to respect our husbands as they need to respect us as well like they respect Christ. We donot need to be overbearing to our husbands and viseversa.We need to help eachother.
---candice on 3/22/11|
It depends what you understyand as submitting, you want them to be like
1. a woman with her own mind and opinion yet who's willing to put on hold her personal vieuws for Christ sake, or a trained puppydog that sits jumps and barks on command.
---andy3996 on 3/22/11|