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Fellowship Of His Sufferings

Phil 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death,
What does Paul mean by this, particularly "the fellowship of His sufferings"?

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 ---Donna66 on 3/27/11
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Haz27, yes what you state is true, and again that is our position in Christ....

ut you seem to be saying you were born Adain a FATHER, Mature all at once...walla.

What I'm saying, in agreement with your scripture is we GROW UP into that that is already ours....and take posession of these truths. This doesn't happen overnight. We are to GROW in teh Grace and knowledge of Him into teh Fullness and stature of Christ. You're not full grown when yor receive Christ...first you are a baby on milk....then you grow, becoming mature eating meat.

And it's not perfect in that of cease from sin, is to cease from our fellowship to sin in this world....OVERCOMERS, does not mean sinless perfection!
---kathr4453 on 4/2/11


In reading Phil 2 ans 3 in it's ENTIRITY, You will see we are to keep this mine in us as was in Christ. Jesus never died to sin, being sinless..

And Perfect in scripture does not mean sinlessness. Paul never once in Phip 3 states he is tryng to attain sinlessness.

Jesus was obedient to the Father unto death. Not my will but thine be done.

If all God wanted was a body to sacrifice, and blood to shed they would have sacrificed Jesus as a baby...

So Jesus suffering/death had nothing to do with HIS SIN.

Our fellowship as in Phil 3 ( that is teh suffering here we are discussing) not the others you listed....Is to be perfect and entire lacking nothing....paul never says to attain sinless perfection.
---kathr4453 on 4/2/11

Paul in Phil 3 is talking about our life AFTER we have been baptized into His death and raised up with Him.

Paul is saying in order to KNOW His resurrection power in this life, he knows it comes through the fellowship of His Sufferings...

When I am weak...THEN I am strong. Paul teaches all through our scripture as he does Galatians 2:20-21, we live( our New Man, not old) in the power of His resurrection.

A righteous life before God is living by Faith IN His Son...And by faith in His Promies, and through those promise(s) we BECOME partakers of His divine nature...2 Peter 1
---kathr4453 on 4/2/11

Haz, hello again. You are right that Phil. 3:10 does speak of the communion of suffering with Christ. He was willing to die for the Lord, just as the Lord had died for him. His losses were those things he had, for he said in 3:8,

"Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish"

1 Peter 4:1, makes no mention of believers been crucified with Christ. Only that Christ suffered for us in the flesh.
---Mark_V. on 4/2/11

A Christian's fellowship of Christ's sufferings (our old man crucified Rom6:6, Gal 2:20) perfects us.
This we see in Heb 10:14
"For by one offering he hath PERFECTED for ever them that are sanctified"

Also, we see in 1Pet 4:1 that "he that hath suffered in the flesh (crucified with Christ) hath ceased from sin".

And in Phil 3:10 the "power of his resurrection" we see in our lives when we are baptized into Christ.

---Haz27 on 4/1/11

Kathren, how can you pray for others when it is you who needs to clean-up your own act first? How do you expect God to hear you when you are not right with God? Do you not see your own comments to others?
---mary on 4/1/11

There are very different "sufferings" as discussed on this blog.

In this blog regarding Phil 3:10
the "fellowship of his sufferings" is explained in the same scripture. The sufferings we share in is Christ's crucifiction i.e "being made conformable to his death".
Our old man was crucified Rom6:6. This is also confirmed in 1Pet4:1.

Other very different sufferings we find in other scriptures.
Reproached for preaching gospel. 1Pet4:14
Our faith is tested. James 1
Chastisement Heb 12.

But Phil 3:10 and 1Pet 4:1 speaks of our old man being crucified with Christ.
---Haz27 on 4/1/11

Kath, I do not remember anon casting out demons as you accused her earliar. You have made terrible comments towards her only because she told you not to use CAPS. That was all. Then you said to her, SNAKES/false teachers can present exactly the way YOU like, and you don't even know the difference. You're loving it!"
I bet you don't grasp how evil you are.
---Bob on 4/1/11

Mark V,
Context?? What's that? You mean like your one-liners to grow TULIPs?

I only quoted about a dozen verses from Hebrews 1-2 to point out the inheritance as heirs of Abraham, and a half dozen from Genesis 15 to provide a basis for understanding the promise to Abraham.

If that's not context, I don't know what is.

You are right about one thing, not every inch of the book of Hebrews is directly speaking of inheritance. Poor choice of words on my part. What I meant is that the thought is all throughout.

Peace, brother. I do not post to argue, but to debate.
---James_L on 4/1/11

Here's the truth anon, When I brought up Job, and deliverance ministries, Here you come again, attacking me and trying to shut me down. THAT is what is bothering you.

You see, you're no different than the friends of Job, who accused him of all sorts of this and that because he was suffering, just like your beliefs lean towards. However, had you been there, God would have kicked you to the curb, just as He did the friends of Job. God said they all LIED, but one, and asked Job to pray for them.

I will pray for you anon/donna5535.
---kathr4453 on 4/1/11

My mother in law invited me to a woman's conference. My mother in law is not saved.

Most was cheesy stiff until a women came and gave her testimony ... on suffering. Oh my . Women started walking out of the conference.

However, it was just what the Dr. ordered for me. I sat up in my chair and God ministered to me through that.

Now after it was over, my mother in law along with her friends said how much they hated her testimony, thought she was mean, didn't like one thing she said(just like you anon)...yet I felt LOVE, Peace and God's healing touch in my own life helping me understand things. That experience let me know people like yourself are out there just like all those who walked out and hated what she said.
---kathr4453 on 4/1/11

Jesus never posted(wrote) on CN or anywhere else for that matter.

Well, I know Jesus used a WHIP, and called the Pharisees serpents...

enon, if you don't like my style...move on...

I don't like yours, but I don't bust in to your conversations and tell you so. WHY, because if that is how God works through YOU, it's none of my business.

The only thing I listen for it true....not HOW it was presented.

SNAKES/false teachers can present exactly the way YOU like, and you don't even know the difference. You're loving it!

This blog isn't about ME to begin with stop changing the subject to me.....just another tactic satan uses!
---kathr445 on 4/1/11

Personally anon, I believe it is your guilty conscience believing a finger is pointing at you...maybe it is...but it's GOD's finger.
---kathr4453 on 4/1/11

kathr4453, I just began to post anon the other day, so I'm not the author of those other 20 posts you looked up.

Here is what the bible says:

Philippians 2:8 - And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself,

1 Peter 5:5 - and be clothed with humility:

Philippians 2:6 - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

Matthew 18:4 - Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

kathr, you teach with a pointed finger, using caps and underlined words and bolded words. Jesus did NOT teach like that. The letter of the law kills, but it is the Spirit who gives life.
---anon on 4/1/11

Donna66, I apologize for my last statement. I do wish your last two posts would have come out before I said I was done. you see THAT is what I was hoping for...but my frustration wasn't what squeesed it out of you.

I know you and James L make it seem like an option, or opportunity, but I believe it's just God.

We CAN run away from the test, but that only proves what James without works is DEAD, and there was no faith at all to begin with.
---kathr4453 on 4/1/11

James L, context James. You are putting things together to form some kind of answer to make what you said mean inheritance. Just as you argued on the rewards that you said Christians don't have. you went on and on and of course you will not admit that all Christians have some kind of works. Now you will not admit that the book of Hebrews is not all about inheritance. It covers many topics and I could put them all down, but what for? It would serve no purpose since you will put more things together just as Kathr does, from all kinds of places. Both of you do work in the same way. Very similar. I will leave you peace.
---Mark_V. on 4/1/11

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The reason people don't know or see anything about suffering in scripture is because they are not suffering. HOWEVER when, as God brought Job through suffering( not something Job brought on himself) nor could any deliverance minister interfere in Gods purpose, WE who do suffer are brought to these scriptures BY the Holy Spirit for our comfort. The Holy Spirit is our COMFORTER Jesus said He will send the comforter. Yep He did, and through His word comforts US in our trials assuring us of God's unending LOVE AND MERCY through our journey in this life.

The end of Phil 3 state, those who are still in and of and mind the things of this world are enemies of the Cross.
---kathr4453 on 4/1/11

Donna66, I never said I was a teacher. And truly i don't believe that is my gift. So with that, if you are comparing how a school teacher teaches to how God teaches through scripture, I don't think God uses the same principle. So, I will not be offended by your saying I'm a teacher and not teaching according to a cookie cutter method. I do see teachers use many different methods of teaching.

I think I lean more towards exortation, and prophesy. Not prophesy as telling the future..I don't believe in that, but REITERATING what God has already told us.

ALL gifts are manifest through each individual personality. Look at James...stern, ( no personality at all it seems) however, he may have been a hoot in person.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

Mark V part 1,
Concerning Hebrews and inheritance:

1:4-5 (Christ) having "become" much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. For to which of the angels did He ever say "You are My Son, today I have begotten You?"

"And He shall be a Son to Me"
(A son is the primary heir of an inheritance)

1:13 "But to which of the angels has He ever said "Sit at My right hand?"

1:14 (angels) Are they not ministering spirits...for the sake of those who will Inherit Salvation?

2:8 (about Christ) We do not yet see all things subjected to Him (He is not on the throne, but at the right hand of the throne)
---James_L on 3/31/11

Donna66, I'm spending time pouring out my heart to you and sharing things with you from my heart, however akwark that may be, ( as even Paul said he was not great in speaking, nor was Moses) and all you can do is come back and criticise me on a personal level, and my technique.

So, with that, I will say no more to you. I have known and have hesitate for a long time to even answer any question you have ever asked me, because you always do this...set me up just to knock me down.

I'm done here donna.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

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Mark V part 2,
2:9 Jesus crowned with glory and honor

2:10 bringing many sons to glory

2:11 not ashamed to call us brethren

2:16 Surely He does not give help to angels, but to the descendant of Abraham

Genesis 15:1 Abram...your reward shall be great

15:2 O Lord God, what will you GIVE me, since I am childless, and the HEIR of my house is Elieser?

15:3 Since You have given me no offspring, one born in my house is my HEIR.

15:4 This man will not be your heir...from your own body, he shall be your heir

15:6 Abraham believed in the Lord

The promise to Abraham was an heir. It is fulfilled in Christ. And we are His brethren, meaning we will share in His inheritance
---James_L on 3/31/11

Kath4453- Ah! You have experience. It took a silly rhetorical question to bring it out. But I FULLY AGREE with everything you say!

Some Christians act as if their every act of obedience to God is such a struggle, causing such suffering, that they surely must be holier and more mature than others they know (who are disobedient, no doubt!).
Sometimes obedience is painful. But not always!
HEBREWS 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but GRIEVOUS: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
1 JOHN 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not GRIEVOUS.
---Donna66 on 3/31/11

I really appreciated what you said about lambs to the slaughter. Probably all of us have missed opportunities.. many opportunities perhaps.. for this. But the rewards are great.
I don't know how much the dead know about events on earth, but your friends husband must have been rejoicing doubly (if this is possible) at the work of the Lord through his funeral! Hope he was able to see that all his pain and constraint was so worth it!
---Donna66 on 3/31/11

I think of how many people think glory is a place (heaven). But glory is an honor bestowed on Jesus, and He is bringing many sons to glory.

I read what you quoted about being glorified with Him, I also think WOW.

Kathr, we are really close. I've read a your comments about inheritance in other blogs, too. We may see some minor points a little different, but it is amazingly reassuring to see someone else post my thoughts. Overcomers is a good word study, I've done it. Partaker is another

1Peter 5:1 & 4
...your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed...when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory
---James_L on 3/31/11

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kathr4453-- No doubt, there are parallels between Joshua and Ephesians. But you left me back in Phil and Hebrews!

It seems you are more preacher than teacher. Teachers listen thoughtfully to questions, attempt to understand... and to explain. Some use questions to display their knowledge and "spirituality", but nobody learns a lot from them.

I'm sure, if you look at it with that in mind, every book in the New Testament IS about suffering. If your mind is fixed on love, or sin or eternity every book in the New Testament is about that too. What reasonable Bible student COULDN'T recite endless scriptures about a given subject? (But then anyone who can read, can find the same things.) Oh well.
---Donna66 on 3/31/11

Donna66, I can tell you this from my own experiences. You ask, what a miserable life. WELL, someone looking fom the outside would think that, but here is what goes on on the inside.

Through our trials of suffering, we come to know the Lord in the most intimate personal way, that all the money and riches in this world cannot compare. WE GAIN something through it. The Fullness of Him, and the Power of His resurrection living through us.

No donna, it's not a miserable life, it's the most glorious life anyone could ever want, and even in our wildest dreams, could never make up or even think possible.

Abundently above all we could ever ask or dream, according the His power that works in and through us.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

Donna66, another point Paul tells us is we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

My friends husband, was thought to have stolen money from his work place. He wasn't fired, but ostrasized by he co-workers, and was never promoted, as they too believed he was guilty. He stayed, and for 15 years held up his head regardless. When the person who did steal the money witnessed 15 years of emotional abuse, the guilt became so overwelming, he comfessed. 2 weeks later my friends husband died. But the real ending is this...they all came to his funeral and for the first time heard the Gospel. Donna, do you think on the inside he suffered, although God gave him the Grace to endure? But he knew his obedience under this trial God had a plan!
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

Donna66, Great bible teachers will tell you the parallel between Joshua and Ephesians. Even the author of Hebrews 3-4 is telling you the exact same thing.

The Christian life is difficult. It's not the pie in the sky teaching many teach today. WE are called the suffering church here on earth, and will receive a great inheritance because of it.

As you quoted Paul, the sufferings we partake of today will not compare to the Glory that is to follow.

Every book in the NT is about suffering. Those verses have comforted Christians throug out the age.

WE count it all JOY in our sufferings, knowing we will receive a crown of life to those who endure. It's an honor, and the Glory of the Lord rests upon those who do.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

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Is Obedience to be equated to Suffering?
What a miserable state the Christian life would be if this were so. Sometimes obedience is difficult and humbling. But is something wrong if someone lives day to day obeying God to the best of their understanding, but doesn't consider themselves "suffering"? Not a "deep" question. But obeying can bring joy, as well.
---Donna66 on 3/31/11

Being made conformable to His death. This is what we are being conformed to..conformed to His Image...we are always carrying around in our body the dying of Christ so that the life of Christ is manifest in us. These two work in unity. It's like a spontaneous combustion.

---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

Kathr4453--"Down-to earth". No insult. Jesus was down-to- earth.
You start out fine explaining things, but then pick up other Biblical metaphors and terms that you see as related, and throw them in the pot.
When you bring in such ideas as reaching the "Promised Land" you muddy the waters.
Is Obedience to be equated to Suffering?
What a miserable state the Christian life would be if this were so. Sometimes obedience is difficult and humbling. But is something wrong if someone lives day to day obeying God to the best of their understanding, but doesn't consider themselves "suffering"? Not a "deep" question. But obeying can bring joy, as well.
---Donna66 on 3/31/11

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The New Man, born of God does not sin, so says John ALSO!

Our old man is crucified with Christ and the power of the cross takes care of that nature. If applied properly anon, your new man would see love in what i said. Your old catty flesh is what seemed to rear it's ugly head! 1 Corinthians 2 state the Spiritual man understand spiritual things, and the carnal man does not. The carnal man hates the things of the spirit.

Thank you Christina. It appears you do not feel I was pointing fingers.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

It doesn't get any better than this:

Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit ALL THINGS, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Who are those that overcome?

1 John 2:14
--- I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

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JamesL ---Heb 2, good things there. 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb. 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest...

HE has certainly shared in OUR sufferings. With this in mind, it seems more possible that we could share in HIS!

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. WOW.
---Donna66 on 3/31/11

JamesL, We're closer on this that you may think. I want to first say how much I appreciate you here, and our conversations.

There are so many catty woman on line, and it's really hard to have any kind of deep spiritual conversations with many of them, (and some men too). But they all flock toghther in their cattyness so it appears.

The Church, the Body of Christ, His Body, JOINT HEIRS inherit this, also judging angels etc, is a great one...go all the way to the end of Rev 3....WHO are those who sit WITH Christ on HIS THRONE??? The Overcomers...Those who were not rebuked by God thinking they were all that...making hateful remarks to those who only warn.

Let's keep discussing...we both see the same things.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

2.JamesL, Now look up OVERCOMER, and who the overcomers are.

Those stuck in this world, wo know more about Politics, Obamacare Healthcare, etc, than they do the Lord or His word, are not the overcomers. They spend more time reading newspapers than the Word of God. If they even know as much about the Word as they do worldly issues, WOW, what a difference. If Christ in you is who overcomes, It appears the TRUE christian will/are overcomers.

I personally believe JamesL, that it is the EVIDENCE one is saved. You think their saved in a lesser capacity...I don't believe their saved at all. Regardless of what they may say. If the Life of Christ is not there manifesting His outworkings, it's all talk.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

Donna66, the truth is, I'm really not a "down to earth" christian.

You may have meant that as an insult, but I take it as a compliment. Those Seated with Christ in Heavenly placed In Christ, are not earthly christian.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/11

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James L, good morning. I read your last answer and just like another you posted concerning Hebrews I disagree with your post. Hebrews is not about inheritance. The only time it speaks of "Promise of the eternal inheritance" is only speaking about the old testament saints. Looking back to those under the Old Covenant who were called to salvation by God on the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to come long after most of them had died. The reference as always in the N.T. epistles, is to the effectual calling related to salvation (3:1) which in this context refers to Old Testament believers. Read Heb. 15-22). The rest of Hebrews speak of warnings, six times, and exposition of passages 8 times, the other part speaks of faith.
---Mark_V. on 3/31/11

Kathr, I can see you have spent many years studying to show yourself approved learning to rightly divide the word of Truth. I know this doesnt happen overnight. It appears you have the gift of teaching. Continue on, and please dont let ugly comments deter your love and enthusiasm for your gift.
When the Lord says, well done my faithful servant it will include the gifts we are given to serve the Lord. Not all have the same gift, and we are instructed to receive and accept all gifts that edify the body of Christ. Those who throw out ugly comments either have no gift of their own, or they are not a member, receiving with Love the Christ that is in us.
---Christina on 3/31/11

---kathr4453 just by you posting FOUR blogs in here, is proof you are trying to defend your erroneous actions and responses. Jesus spoke softly. He didn't use caps which indicates screaming and there's nothing in the bible that's underlined.
Second, the bible tells us to speak the truth in love, you speak the truth with a pointed finger, where is the humility in that? The Spirit gives life, the letter kills.
Thirdly, where does it say in the bible that

"the New Man, where no sin can abide?"

1st John says if we say we have no sin, we are a liar. I rest my case.
---anon on 3/31/11

anon, I just looked at your last 20 posts and saw you USE UPPER CASE often, and also looked on those blogs to see others using UPPER CACE AS WELL.

When you say to others what you said to me, I will take your comment seriously.

But I can't take you seriously, since you are a respector of persons.

You just didn't like WHAT I said...not HOW I said it.
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

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Hey everyone, did you hear that God gave ginger EVERY single revelation there is to know in the bible? That the Holy Spirit only reveals things to her and not the rest of us? "Let Him who has ears, HEAR what the Spirit of God is saying." NOT EVERYONE KNOWS ALL THINGS, i.e., ginger. Just by your arguing this out shows you probably have a jezebel's a control and manipulation demon.
---anon on 11/30/10

anon, you were saying......????

I'd much rather see someone teach using caps, underlines and bolds, then see hateful sarcastic hateful remarks made to other Christians..
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

Anon-- I agree with you! I understand truths much better when they are delivered by a down-to-earth fellow believer, not a "spiritual" expositor.
---Donna66 on 3/30/11

The book of Hebrews is speaking of our inheritance all throughout.

2:5 God did not sunject the world to come to angels

2:8 All things will be subjected to man, but not yet.

2:9 Christ was crowned with glory and honor because of His suffering

2:10 Christ is bringing many sons to glory

2:11 He is not ashamed to call us brethren

Romans 8:17 We are heirs of GOD, and joint heirs WITH Christ, IF indeed we suffer with Him.

The inheritance of Canaan foreshadowed our eternal inheritance (Heb 9:15)

Dan had no inheritance (Judges 18:1), though in the promised land
---James_L on 3/30/11

anon, teh difference between your beliefs and mine are this,

You believe in deliverance ministry of castinng our demons. I believe the Cross deals with any demon anyone can have. When our old man is dead, crucified with Christ, satan/demons have no more power over that person.

Who are you casting the demon out of, the old man who was crucified with Christ? or the New Man, where no sin can abide? God dealt with our old man at calvary.

So if that's what brough on your remarks...I understand.

Many want to blame a demon for THEIR OWN BAD behavior.

As I looked around the different blogs, I see many many use CAPS, bold, and underline. Some of us just do that. Others don't. The MESSAGE is what is important.
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

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While my parents were living, I gave little thought to my "inheritance". I'd rather have them than anything I might get later.

The thought that Christ is our heritage, is lovely (if somewhat esoteric) theology.
But I'm more interested in the fact that Jesus is my Savior and Lord, alive and present in the here and now. The inheritance I'm looking forward to is hearing Him say "Well done, thou good and faithful servant".
---Donna66 on 3/30/11

James L.-- //Our inheritance grows as we endure suffering.//That's encouraging.
I haven't given much thought to my "inheritance".
---Donna66 on 3/30/11

Our inheritance is Christ Himself...We GROW up into Him, but are we rewarded by how much we've grown? I really don't think so.

ALL Christians have Christ as their inheritance. AND WE are actually Christ's Inheritance.

There is no such thing as a Christian without any inheritance. They are simply a man without Christ!
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

---kathr4453 when you use CAPITOL LETTERS and BOLD your statements and then UNDERLINE them, it feels like you're teaching kindergarden children. Are we so dumb as to not understand if you wrote in normal size letters? without bolding your words and without underlining them? You seem to appear very superior to others and that ONLY YOU have the truth, is that the case? Where's your humility in your responses because I can't find it. Sorry.
---anon on 3/30/11

iI am not saying this to be mean in any way. If I wanted to be mean, I wouldn't say it at all, and just let those continue in your lack.

Rev 3, are like so many today, believing they are the ELECT, and have need of nothing, all the while blind and naked. THEY don't REALLY see or understand.

Buy of me Gold tried in the fire...IS the Fellowship of His sufferings, that you may be rich.

How does Jesus end...REPENT!

Just a head knowledge won't make you rich. your actual identification with Christ will, and obedience under.

The danger is head-knowledge, and then believing your head knowledge is all you need. That head knowledge will in fact condemn you in the end.
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

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1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

THIS is what Satan tempted Jesus with those 40 days...Satan said, Worship me and I will give you this or that.

Our testings come as Satan tempts us with the WORLD and teh things of this world..

1st Peter the acid that breaks those chains
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

Donna5535 and MarkV-- Thanks, you've clarified some things for me.
James L.-- //Our inheritance grows as we endure suffering.//That's encouraging.
I haven't given much thought to my "inheritance".

It's not that I don't know scripture, but it does help sometimes to see how other Christians apply it.
---Donna66 on 3/30/11

donna5535, In the beginning of Ephesians Paul tells us we are seated with Christ in Heavenly placed ABOVE powers and Principalities. This is our POSITION, however we now need to take POSSESSION.

After Israel entered the Land, they STILL had to confront all the ITES,driving them OFF the Land.

What are ITES in our life?

Satan appeals to our PRIDE/old man, and Christ within WARRING against..

Only as you remain IN CHRIST and HIS POWER...HE is the Victor...The Victory belongs to the Lord, and we praise HIM through all victories.

No one is an individual little god who wins victory all by themselves. "I can do ALL things THROUGH CHRIST who strengthens me"...
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

Now Joshua is the paralleling book to Ephesians. God promised Israel an inheritance, the Promise land, a land of milk and honey. OUR inheritance is Christ Himself and our life IN CHRIST, a land( not literally land) of Milk and Honey, Victory, Power, blessings Heavenly places IN CHRIST..the Riches that are IN CHRIST. Ephesians 3, I so lovethat we may know the height, depth, width, length of ALL the Fullness of Christ. Now compare that to what God Promised Abraham concerning the literal promise land. God took Abraham out and showed him, the height, depth, length and width of a physical land promised. WE as the Church dont inherit physical LAND, we Inherit the Fullness of Christ. HES OUR LAND.
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

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The wilderness was never the promise. The land was. Yet many did not enter for lack of faith to was THEIRS, and all they had to do was go in.

Egypt/wilderness represent the world

The Jordan represent the CROSS..3 days crossing represent the 3 days of Jesus death and resurrection...and the Promise Land represent our Resurrection life IN CHRIST.

The Land represents Christ Himself.

Many today, still in the wilderness live on the wrong side of the CROSS, having never received the promise ,yet believe they are saved.

Those who did not enter DIED IN THEIR SIN in the wilderness.
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

Donna66, 1st John says you have an anointing from the Holy One. So you do have an anointing.
Of course the devil is NOT Omnipresent, that's why he took thousands of angels with him when he was thrown out of heaven. They became as evil as he is thus they are called demons. Satan gives them orders and strategies on what to do to attack us. They can tell by our words, our reactions to people, etc., what are weakest areas of our lives are and that's how they strategize on where to attack us.

You CAN resist the devil and he will flee by Worshipping Father God. By Praying in the Spirit. These strengthen your inner man. You definitely have an anointing and are anointed and a child of God.
---Donna5535 on 3/30/11

Phil 3: 10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings(,)COMMA

The answer to this verse is in the remaining words of the sentence. You can't cut a sentence inn half.

The fellowship of His sufferings is:
being made conformable unto his death,

11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

#2Paul isn't saying he has to achieve eternal life through suffering..or achieve a state of perfection (as we may think perfect means) through suffering. That's Buddhist/Hindu .

We grow up into the fulness and statue of Christ, Ephesians 4 tells us this..a MATURE, Victorious, (this is what perfect means in scripture) James 1 states our trials and testings bring us that we may be perfect and entire lacking nothing...

ALL IN CHRIST...Abide in me and I in you....

THIS is the Will of God for our lives.

Paul continues in Phil 3...The aim and purpose, his goal....PERFECTION, and he states at that point he had not fully attained...but presses on.

This is OUR CALLING, and what WE are to OBEY!
---kathr4453 on 3/30/11

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There are many aspects of the fellwship of His suffering.

Philippians 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake,

Then we have:

Hebrews 2:18
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour(assistance in time of distress) them that are tempted.

Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered,

**Though Jesus were sinless He still had to LEARN obedience by the things He suffered...Becoming OBEDIENT unto death, even death of a cross. WE are to keep that same mind in us, so says Paul, Phil 2
---kathr4453 on 3/29/11

Good stuff, Kathr.
Many of the books of the NT have something in them about suffering. Colossians 1, Romans 8, Philippians 2, James 1, Most of the book of Hebrews, 1 Peter, the Beatitudes, Matthew 10,

A lot of them are large sections of scripture. The suffering mentioned has a promise of an eternal reward or inheritance.

I believe that is the reason man was made.

Satan refused his place, striving for the throne.

So man was made a little lower than the angels. When we suffer our will to God's, being conformed to Christ's image, we will be brought to glory with Christ and judge the angels.

Very profound. Our inheritance grows as we endure suffering. That's why James could say count it all joy.
---James_L on 3/29/11

leslie-- when I was about 15y/o my parents were out of the United States for the summer. I attended summer Bible camp at the invitation of a friend. I found Jesus there, then was baptized and joined a local church.
Neither my parents nor my two older brothers were Christian. My parents were furious. I was grounded, couldn't leave the house, nor have visitors or use the phone. Both parents and brothers "grilled" me repeatedly as I explained the gospel to them. My father threatened to disown me.

It was hurt and afraid.. But did I suffer as Jesus did on the cross? My suffering was in no way comparable! But maybe it was "sharing" His suffering (a little bit)
That's the worst persecution I've experienced.
---Donna on 3/29/11

Donna66, I believe you are right. The suffering talked about by Paul refers to the same kind of suffering he endured for Christ. "Fellowship of His suffering" refers to partnership-a deep communion of suffering that every believer shares with Christ, who is able to comfort suffering Christians. It wasn't because of the devil, it was because of sin, sin in the world. The Pharisees, and false teachers were mostly his persecutors. As Christ died for the purpose of redeeming sinners, so Paul had that same purpose in a lesser sense, he lived and would be willing to die to reach sinners with the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 3/29/11

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Well, I don't believe "The devil" is Omnipresent, like God. (Capable of being everywhere at once)...nor Omniscient like God, (Knowing everything), so it's hard for me to imagine him choosing little ole me to pick on.

But I have sensed "evil powers" at times trying to attack me...or that's how it seems. But I'm not sure I have any "anointing" in particular. If I did, it should help me resist the "devil" shouldn't it?"
---Donna66 on 3/29/11

Donna66, yes I believe you are sharing the fellowship of His sufferings. Because I think (and this is just my opinion) if you weren't a Christian, you'd still be out there in the world doing worldy things, right? In one of the gospels it says, "Everyone went back to their home, but Jesus went to the Mount to pray." It's very hard on a Friday night when everyone here at work is going to happy hour and I just have NO desire whatsoever to do that, so I go home and pray or read the bible or watch a teaching...loneliness is a big part of the sanctification process, so yes you are sharing the fellowship of His sufferings.
---Donna5535 on 3/29/11

Maybe reading Hebrews 11 would help. Most call it the hall of faith, but read on into chapter 12 to see it's a hall of suffering with Christ.
---James_L on 3/29/11

It's what James 1 is all about...the trials and testings of our faith..

Hebrews 11:24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter,

25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season,

26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
---kathr4453 on 3/29/11

//You aren't a target because you are a Christian...
---Donna66 on 3/28/11//

Donna66-please tell that to the

You are a target for persecution because when satan sees the anointing on you and you're obeying the Word, and Worshipping God and your heart is turned towards God and you are in love with God and the anointing is flowing, that makes you a target!! Amen? or no?
I remember what Kathie Walters said, "The devil doesn't care anything about you except your anointing and he'll go after it."
---Donna5535 on 3/29/11

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Donna5535-- Thanks for making the point about loneliness I've never thought of it that way. I'm essentially without family, so at times, when I don't join the "bar hopping" crowd, and my married Christian friends are busy with their lives, I feel lonely.
The thing is, I don't avoid the party circuit because I think, "Oh, Oh , I'm a Christian" I'm just not sacrifice in that! I've enjoyed good fellowship with the Lord and other Christians enough that some things no longer appeal.

Unbelievers, if isolated suffer loneliness, too. So is mine "sharing Jesus' sufferings"?
---Donna66 on 3/29/11

\\But some Christians think they are "persecuted" if someone treats them badly for any reason..\\

And then some people think they are being persecuted when they suffer the usual social disapproval for using the Name of Jesus as an excuse to be obnoxious.
---Cluny on 3/29/11

I think you've got a better handle on suffering than you might realize.

I live in a duplex with the most hateful neighbor on earth.

But is it persecution? No. He would be the same, no matter who lives next to him.

Cool story - I was about to go off on him one day for cussing in front of my son, and my little boy said he wanted to pray for our neighbor that he stops cussing. So instead of getting in a fight, we prayed.

Maybe reading Hebrews 11 would help. Most call it the hall of faith, but read on into chapter 12 to see it's a hall of suffering with Christ.
---James_L on 3/29/11

This is making some sense. But some Christians think they are "persecuted" if someone treats them badly for any reason... or simply disagrees with their cherished beliefs! Persecution, maybe...or the Christian may have brought it on himself because of his own behavior. (only the former counts as "suffering with Christ", I think)

Then some people are just mean to people in general: They are angry for their own reasons. You aren't a target because you are a's just because you are in the vicinity. It may be "unfair" or cruel, but does that make it "persecution"?

I always feel a little suspicious of those who live comfortably but recite all their "sufferings" for the Lord
---Donna66 on 3/28/11

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You make a very good point about loneliness, etc for the sake of being a Christian.

I can really relate to what you say about not feeling as though you suffer. I have thought that many, many times. I have a pretty good life. Not rich by any means, but I eat every day. Very old car, but it starts every time. Where have I suffered?

My family has mocked me for being a religious nut and have stuck my neck out in evangelism. Other than that, I don't see much suffering. I am not ashamed of the gospel, always ready to give an answer. I work in construction, so the possibility is there, I suppose, to suffer.

We don't always see things from the same angle that God does. You may suffer much more than it seems.
---James_L on 3/28/11

When you face persecution of any type, this is the fellowship of His sufferings - you suffer like Christ did on the cross. If you are not facing or have not faced any type of persecution as a Christian, according to the Bible, I question your salvation. Jesus said they hated Me, and they will hate you because of Me.
---Leslie on 3/28/11

Donna66 and Bill make excellent points. However, if we are "In Christ Jesus", wouldn't it suffice that if we go through persecution it is because we are Christian therefore we suffer because we are in fellowship with Jesus, God and Holy Spirit, right?

If the mind of man plans his ways, but the Lord directs his steps, then wouldn't all the persecution, loneliness, betrayals we go through are directed by the Lord?

If we suffer because of sin, that's a whole nutter story, right? But if we're walking in obedience to His Word, and in Communion with him daily, and we suffer loneliness because no one understands the walk, the cost, etc., isn't that fellowshipping in His sufferings?
---Donna5535 on 3/28/11

That is a good point . . . about whose sufferings are we suffering. In 2 Corinthians 12:7-15, Paul talks about how he takes "pleasure" in his "infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses," (in verse 10), but then he says, "for Christ's sake"! It looks like he could be making it clear that he means sufferings that are for Christ and not because of what his own ego got him into. While he suffers in God's grace, he enjoys "pleasure" of fellowship, sharing, with Jesus.

"For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently?" (in 1 Peter 2:20)
---Bill_willa6989 on 3/28/11

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jamesL--I suffer various things, as all Christians do. How do I know I'm sharing in Christ's sufferings?

I've suffered a little persecution...not as much as many people in the world...I've been abandoned by friends at times of crisis (crisis, to me, anyway) like Christ in Gethsemane. I've even suffered physical violence (but not by virtue of being Christian). These aren't "sharing in Christ's sufferings", are they?

Nobody is going to nail me to a cross (though some might like to). I've experienced pain and a life-threatening disease, AND I've had to die to self, many times. It's humbling, but of minor importance. Do these things qualify as being part of the "fellowship of His sufferings"?
---Donna66 on 3/28/11

Donna66, this is a GREAT question. I really don't know what the "fellowship" of His sufferings are, but I can say that I've been through some of the sufferings Jesus went through. Betrayals. It really hurts to be betrayed. Persecution because of my walk with the Lord....Jesus was persecuted daily. Having to be alone because "no one cares for my soul"....Jesus went to pray at night the "mount." Even in the Garden of Gethsemane, they coudln't tarry with him in prayer, they fell asleep. I'm sure others have more deeper insight into this, I'd be interested to hear your response probably have some good revelations on this one...i'd like to hear them. TY!!!
---Donna5535 on 3/28/11

Therefore you now have sorrow, but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you. John 16:22
---Kimbe7395 on 3/28/11

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