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Pastor Abusing His Daughter

My pastor is abusing his teenage daughter. I told one lady and now my family is "falsely accusing" and needs to be separated from this church and the pastor is telling people to stay away from us. We have proof from the pastors daughter to our son asking for help. What should we do?

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 ---zakaab on 4/25/11
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The Issue is that there is allegation of child abuse that you are not capable of validating, but state authorities can, simply submit the report to the appropriate agency for child protection and let the make the investigation and take appropriate action as they may deem necessary. If it becomes necessary to attend a different church do so. The prevention of child abuse supersedes any other issue.
---Blogger9211 on 5/5/11

The person who should report this problem is the one who saw it happen, not the one who is gossiping about it.
---KarenD on 5/4/11

Trish-- Thanks for your wisdom that comes from experience! I'm also a mandated reporter. Your advice puts the welfare of the child first. No one wants to see someone accused unjustly. And gossip, of course, is a sin in the eyes of God. But an adult has resources to deal with the wrongs that may be done to him. A child has none... except for the adults who are in authority.
---Donna66 on 4/29/11

zakaab, if you have evidence that will stand legal scrutiny about any kind of child abuse, instead of gosipping about it to another person--and that's exactly what you did by "telling one lady"--report it to the legal authorities.

Otherwise, you're spreading tales.
---Cluny on 4/29/11

My whole point of this person not speaking to the Pastor was to show they had no problem of spreading rumors to someone else. Now others here say the action was OK.
As always, everyone paints the Pastors bad. How does anyone know if this is the truth or not? What gives anyone the authority to cause trouble in the church and take sides against the pastors?
If this was a valid concern this person should have handled it without spreding it through the church.
---Elder on 4/29/11


You are looking at this subject through the prism of intellectual understanding which is not Gods way.

His thoughts are higher then our thoughts.

This case is completeley one sided without any answer from a rational adult.

So you carry on in YOUR UNDERSTANDING of things and crush and condemn in the name of mans justice all you wish, but it is not Gods ways.

---paul on 4/28/11


You are way to irrational for me to seriously discuss any issue with.

You have wrongfully accused me, you do not know me and my efforts to stop abusive situations of all sorts.

So if you wish to condemn me for doing things Gods way that's fine.

For which of these good works do you stone me.

Side note, never question a persons relationship with God, it is not your place to do so.

Remember this is simply a discussion forum, you will give an account before God one day without excuse or justification, just regrets.
---paul on 4/28/11

leslie -- My advice was to inform the now you accuse me of promoting or practicing child abuse!

My disagreement was with your assumption that you would be considered an "accessory" if you merely suspect abuse but don't report it. (Having evidence of some type would make your report much more credible.)

If (A) a criminal case results and (B) you were in a position to prevent the abuse from occurring but didn't, NOR did you report it,
then you might be considered an accessory. (one who helps a person commit a felony).
---Donna66 on 4/28/11

Paul and Donna - Either you both promote and encourage child abuse or you both are abusing children yourselves. According to the Bible, Jesus said that if any person were to harm one of these children, let him be put to death (paraphased). If Jesus was AGAINST child abuse, then if you are His you should be against it as well. Since you both seem to encourage it, I would be safe in saying, you both are NOT God's. If given the chance you both probably would not report child abuse, and therefore, according to Jesus and the law of the land, would be guilty of being an accessory to a CRIME - which child abuse is in ALL states in the U.S, therefore you both are CRIMINALS.
---Leslie on 4/28/11

Paul: REREAD my words to you. I did not say you were wrong to use God's Word. I said you were wrong to accuse anyone here of convicting the pastor unfairly.

You do not know if this case is blatant abuse or not. I still stand by my words. To approach the pastor in this case is to potentially endanger the child further. Let the authorities investigate and determine if there is abuse, and to what extent if any.

I have worked with abused kids in hospitals and schools, and am a mandated reporter. Mandated reporters do not talk to the perpetrator, but the authorities.
---Trish on 4/28/11


By what barometer of right do you have to pronounce me wrong?

The LAW OF THE LAND that you seem to be enamored with also said Daniel must bow to Nebuchadnezzars golden image, but Gods law was primary and secondary to none.

If your arguing from a secularist stand point then you have become your own god with its own guidelines.
I despise child abusers but I despise those who sew discord just as Christ does.
If this is false information imagine what it will do to this Pastor and body of believers.
Let the Church exercise its justice before invoking big brother.

---paul on 4/28/11

According to the Dept of HHS, In approximately 18 States and Puerto Rico, any person who suspects child abuse or neglect is required to report. Of these 18 States, 16 States and Puerto Rico specify certain professionals who must report but also require all persons to report suspected abuse or neglect, regardless of profession.6 New Jersey and Wyoming require all persons to report without specifying any professions. In all other States, territories, and the District of Columbia, any person is permitted to report. These voluntary reporters of abuse are often referred to as "permissive reporters."
---Donna66 on 4/28/11

Paul & Donna66 - You both are WRONG. According to the law of the land (in ALL states of the U.S.A.), if you even suspect abuse (even through a child making it up) ALL people MUST report it to athorities (CPS or the police). If they do not, they are considered accessories to the abuse (just as if they were the abuser). This is NOT just for teachers & nurses, but for EVERYONE, because it is considered harm to self or others. The ONLY exception (which I think needs to change) is for Priests. I guess you both don't mind if your children get abused - it's okay to you.
---Leslie on 4/28/11

//you have side stepped the appropriate way for a Christian to deal with one another. //

yes, it is true. she did side-step scripture. (this assumes that person did understand this part of scripture.)

however, if i were pastor (and i was not guilty). i would not tell the congregation to stay away from that person. i would go to that person, as the Bible says, and tell them of their transgression and go from there.

where is the scriptural instruction to disenfranchise an individual if one sin was committed as opposed to the one who continues in sin?

the real issue is not her breach of scripture, it is his. he should address this correctly and not send up smoke-bombs if he has nothing to hide.
---aka on 4/28/11


What you are describing is blatant abuse which was not present in this case or the Womens Ministry leader would have probably been on board as well.
And for me to espouse Gods Word and apply it to this situation and you to tell me I'm wrong for it essentially is you saying God is wrong in placing that in His Word.
Who's smarter here man or God.
---paul on 4/28/11

Paul: You are wrong in accusing anyone of convicting the pastor. Reporting the matter to the authorities is the only thing that should be done. It is the authorities job to investigate and find out where the truth of the story lies, and then they decide what is to happen next.

To take it to the pastor could lead to more abuse because the pastor could hurt the child more.

I had a student who was beaten so badly, she had black and blue marks all over her, just because I called the father and told him she had not done her homework. We called the authorities and I never called the father again about anything.
---Trish9863 on 4/27/11

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Based on what you are stating, here are two things you need to do: 1. Leave the church, 2. Tell the authorities. They have professionals who know how to deal with this. Even if you don't have solid proof, tell them anyway and let them deal with this. Don't you try and deal with this situation since you see what problems this has already caused and it will only get worse for you if you continue.
---wivv on 4/27/11


to be fair to Leslie, it was was said, twice:

\\If you know that child abuse is happening\\

\\If you know this abuse is going on\\

I would presume that that it was meant "if it can be demonstrated reasonably", not merely on the testimony of a teen with a ulterior motive.
---James_L on 4/27/11

leslie-- I believe you are wrong about the "accessory (contributing to) the child abuse". You most assuredly will not go to jail. The only people who have legal liability are teachers, nurses and other people in a professional role.
Better check out the law before you advise.
---Donna66 on 4/27/11


When you go butting into family affairs without substantiation from more than one side of the dispute you are sticking your nose into other peoples business.
I agree when there is blatant abuse there is cause for action, but to go on the word of a 16 year old teen who could have ulterior motives is very naive.
I dont know where you get this laws of the land info from, but I can assure you that GODS law rules the day.
Show me chapter and verse where it says it is ok to but into someones personal affairs and presume them guilty and convict them on the spot and turn them over to the authorities.
Sound familiar, you know the whole Crucifixion trials.
I advise one to use discernment not emotional inclinations.
---paul on 4/27/11

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If you know that child abuse is happening, according to the law of the land, if you fail to report it to CPS or the police, then you are just as guilty as the abuser. You would be considered an accessory (contributing to) the child abuse, and could be in serious trouble with the police and even go to jail. If you know this abuse is going on, you have a moral responsibilty and obligation to tell CPS or the police. It is the same with murder.
---Leslie on 4/27/11

It is NOT sticking your nose in other people's business if children are involved in an abuse situation, it is called being a good Christian. Tell me, if someone was abusing your children (even a Pastor), would you want someone to step in or would you just say "let my kid go on being abused"? If you would tell them to butt out and let your kid keep on getting abused, I question whether or not you should go to jail for contributing to the abuse by letting it continue.
---Leslie on 4/27/11

I agree with "elder" you have side stepped the appropriate way for a Christian to deal with one another. 1Corinthians 6:1-8, you have to confront the person and weigh both sides, not just the first person who will sound truthful until you hear the second.
---willa5568 on 4/27/11


You have indeed erred, you have stuck your nose into another mans business, a man of God none the less.

You have no business being a busy body and condemning a man for correcting HIS child.

What you are calling abuse is more than likely a parent correcting a rebellious teenager.

I know the difficulties of keeping a teen daughter in line and keeping a house in order under those trying conditions.

You have overstepped your boundaries as well as all here who advised to convict this man with half the story to go on.

You best repent and ask this man to forgive you for intruding into his personal life where you have no business.
Even if you disagree with his methods,your not his god.

---paul on 4/26/11

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Rhonda, leaving aside the moral and legal issues here, is it your belief that pastors do not have "real jobs"?

when they USE their position of trust as POWER over others THEY have lost the right to "pastor" hence he would need to get a real job

Christ said MANY would come in His name - not a few
---Rhonda on 4/26/11

Let me clarify. This is physical, verbal and emotional abuse (not sexual). The lady I spoke with is the women's ministry leader. We have copies of all evidence and reported it to child services today. Thank you al for your words. God Bless
---zakaab on 4/26/11

The National Child Abuse Hotline is 1-800-4-A-CHILD. That is the number to report any allegations of child abuse in the United States. If it is another country, I have no clue.

It does not matter who is doing the abusing, or who calls. If the person is a mandatory reporter, like a teacher, Sunday School teacher, or social worker, they are mandated by law to report.
---Trish on 4/26/11

Call the authorities.Right away!Anonymously if you have to.This would be up to, and including the police,CPS and any other authority who can step in and take control of this very bad situation. A pastor doing this? Who can we trust now? If this allegation is true,he needs to step down and seek help for himself and his family. He should not return to the pulpit, under no circumstances,until he comes to grips with this situation. He does not need to be instructing, preaching to or teaching to anyone, until he receives the help he needs.
---Robyn on 4/26/11

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Your first response should be to notify CPS (Children's Protective Services) which is a county office (in Calif). CPS calls are anonymous. They will go to the child's school, interview her (and BTW, do not have to tell the reason to ANYONE why they are there), they will then most likely interview the father as well. CPS is usually out, either the same day of the report or the next day.
---TT on 4/26/11

The Bible says that if you have ought against your brother you go to him first. You completely side-stepped Scripture instruction to tell somone who would listen to your gossip.
Now you wonder why people are staying away from you.
There is two things I know.
1. You don't have the full story of what he has done.
2. You are not telling the full story about yourself and your part in this.
---Elder on 4/26/11

Perhaps the pastor is "abusing" his daughter because he doesn't want her to see your son. Or perhaps the daughter is a drama queen. Or perhaps she is being abused for real. You should have spoken to the pastor first and the police also.
---KarenD on 4/26/11

In the United States, "abuse" legally can be considered spanking, and kids can consider "time out" to be abuse. She is willing to tell a *son* about what is happening? instead of talking with a female??? Maybe. But what are you talking about? If she knows she is being raped, she can go to the police, herself, and refuse to go back, to make her point. But Paul does say, "By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established." (in 2 Corinthians 13:1) If people can be evil enough to rape children, people can be evil enough to bear false witness. Maybe this is what you are doing to give the church a bad name, if you came here instead of to the police, like yesterday.
---Bill_willa6989 on 4/26/11

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\\of course he is telling people to stay away from you without people giving him money to his "church cause" he would have to get a real job\\

Rhonda, leaving aside the moral and legal issues here, is it your belief that pastors do not have "real jobs"?
---Cluny on 4/26/11

Call Child Protective Services (CPS) to investigate. If they detect abuse, they will remove her from this household. Then ask God to expose this Pastor for who he really is.
---Leslie on 4/26/11

of course he is telling people to stay away from you without people giving him money to his "church cause" he would have to get a real job

if you believe the young women then YOU separate from the church

then call the authorities man is above the law of the land ...although their lies of superiority given to their blind flock may make them think they are above the laws of the land
---Rhonda on 4/26/11

You should have kept your mouth shut at church, and called the authorities, and let them investigate it.
---Trish on 4/25/11

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CALL THE COPS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
---John on 4/25/11

Go with your son to the police and or child protective services and let him tell them what he knows. Back him up, so they will know that adults believe him, too.
No matter what the authorities do, you better count on leaving the church. But you can do so with a clean conscience.
We had an assistant pastor who sexually molested his daughter. The pastor found out, filed a complaint and the man is serving 18 years in prison. He fooled almost everybody! We helped his wife and 6 children get settled in a new town and make a new start...they had nothing!

It scarred the family severely, and our church to some extent, but no one regrets the outcome. We did the right thing.
---Donna66 on 4/25/11

If your information IS true, and you don't contact authorities, you could be held criminally liable when it is found out. If you have serious concerns about this issue, you can report it anonymously. The fact that you say your church has "branded" you as false accusers means that they may be defending their pastor either out of loyalty to him or because of being duped by him.
---tommy3007 on 4/26/11

what exactly are you calling abuse?
If the Pastor is in error the Bible plainly teaches how to proceed.
Go to him first if your not recieved then go with witnesses if that dont work then an open rebuke before the entire Church is called for.
Have you went to him or simply noised it abroad?
---pauk on 4/26/11

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What you should do is turn the information over to the authorities and let them investigate it. It could wrongfully hurt pastor -yes, but if his daughter is truly being abused and you have proof doing nothing would be tantamount to condoning it as well.

Guard your spirit and know that the entire truth of the matter may never be known to you, don't let yourself enter into disgust, God is his judge, you keep your attitude in Christ, especially as we are instructed to give double honor to the man who does God's work.
---pharisee on 4/25/11

Zakaab, if what you are sharing is indeed true, this Pastor may claim to be a Man of God.

But in reallity he may be one of those people we are warned about in 2 Corinthians Chapter Eleven, and 2 Peter Chapter Two.

For some reason, many so called Churches avoid teaching these passages of scripture.
---Rob on 4/25/11

If you stand by your info, call the authorities.
---aka on 4/25/11

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