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Going To Heaven

Going to heaven? I asked the lady. Yes I am, what makes you think so I asked? Because I took care my mother, she had six children but only I took care of her and that's why I'm going to heaven. Question, what would you have told her?

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 ---mima on 6/26/11
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mima, no need for apology. It is well taken. If someone ask me what would I tell the lady about going to heaven. I would show her in the bible where ye must be born again. Not of works lest any man should boast. It is impossible for man to get to heaven because he is good.
---shira3877 on 7/7/11

Shira3877 I apologize for whatever misunderstanding there was. Please accept my apology. Mima
---mima on 7/4/11

Shira3877-- Misunderstandings are common when communication depends on written comments. Don't get discouraged. Your contributions stimulate people to think. And that's good.
---Donna66 on 7/4/11

Shira, there is nothing wrong ever in asking questions and giving your opinion on why you answered. God has set you free. We are free indeed. Your questions bring out more Truth. And God uses that Truth to convict others through His Word. When you hear what is said, and you compare to Scripture, and you find without a bias heart that what was said was what you read, you will learn, you might not understand something yet, but you will later. That is why I told someone that our first duty is not to understand but to believe what God has said. If we do not believe God, it is all over. Nothing can be done without the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 7/4/11

mima, you misunderstood my meaning. Do you really believe anyone can witness to the unsaved without the Holy Spirit and conviction? I never implied I could do anything without the Spirit to guide me. by now I should know better than to post anything on these blogs.
---shira3877 on 7/4/11

Shira 2, Eph. 2:1-13 explains this very well when Paul explains the order of our experience with God. First Paul says, you were made alive, the believer was first made alive, why? because he says we were dead in trespasses and sins. And He then begins to explain who we were when we were lost, dead in trespasses and sins, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just like the others. But because God is rich in mercy, and because of His great love for "us" ( the elect, believers,) even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace we were saved) and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 7/4/11

Shira, you gave a great example of what I was talking about concerning the new birth by the Spirit. No one knows the moment they have been brought to life, but know and feel something great has happened to them. They begin to act different and to seek after Christ whom they now hear and believe in. And they are led to the word of God by the Spirit, Jesus explained this when He talked to Nicodemus concerning the Spirit, "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit" We don't know how it happens and when it will happen and where He is going next, but we know He came to us because we hear the sound of the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 7/3/11

Shira you wrote,- "a soul-winner would spend a lot more time to make sure the person interested in Christ really understands".

Truth is, the soulwinner must understand and totally depend on the Holy Spirit to convict the one being witnessed to. When the Holy Spirit convicts the individual hearing the gospel message the one presenting the message will have little trouble in leading his listener in a sinners prayer. This fact holds true whether it is one person or 1000 you are witnessing to.
---mima on 7/3/11

deeds are not entry to heaven ...lots of gentiles do great deeds YET do not believe in The Father in Heaven ...there are examples of many peoples in many nations doing great wonderful charity works, humanitarian works etc from this womens perspective all her siblings are going to hell? believers of the True God do not go to heaven FACT Holy Scripture states those who OVERCOME will sit by Christ and rule all nations on earth in the millennium Rev 3:21 sadly false ministers teach the lie that deeds are the "get out of hell" free card
---Rhonda on 7/3/11

markv, I get it, I get it. I do believe we must have a spiritual experience (that isn't oral) then with our mouth we confess. My experience when I got saved couldn't even be explained orally.....were no words. All I could say is I got saved, I got saved
---shira3877 on 7/3/11

Shira, you said,
"so they ask God to come into their hearts orally". Markv, what does that mean?"

( Rom. 10:9,10 )
"That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation"
In order for you to make that confession, you have to already have faith in your heart, which comes through the New Birth. From spiritual death to spiritual life. Which is done by the drawing of God. When you confess the Lord Jesus you must have faith already. You cannot come to Christ without faith and expect to get it later.
---Mark_V. on 7/3/11

shira3877--OK, now I know what you mean. Ideally, a soul-winner would spend a lot more time to make sure the person interested in Christ really understands what the new birth is. Too bad the chaplain left him with that impression.

On the other hand, I've known people who truly DID find the Lord through a tract or just reading a hotel Bible. Usually, they were shortly led to someone who could lead them into more scripture and understanding... And give them some discipling.
---Donna66 on 7/2/11

"But the problem with your theology is that you tell them they are on the way to heaven." Ruben

After I have asked them do you want to pray, and after they have prayed, can I then not agree with the Scripture which says," whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved". I think a person would be silly who did not agree with the Scriptures.
Ruben let me ask you a question. Have you ever said a sinners prayer? I do not think you have because you have no assurance of your salvation. Your salvation is iffy. Your salvation depends upon your behavior and not on what Jesus has done for you. Don't get mad reconsider.
---mima on 7/2/11

"so they ask God to come into their hearts orally". Markv, what does that mean? I have never heard of that. When I was saved, The Spirit of God came to live in me. Is that what you mean? Just wondering
---shira3877 on 7/1/11

Shira, I have heard of the same thing a long time ago. The person was ask to sign a paper, sort of committing him to honor that signing. I believe many do not know how to witness and present the gospel message, so they try all kinds of tricks to get the people to commit.
What we call sinners prayer is when the message of the gospel is given, the question is asked, whosoever believes do you want to make a commitment? And many will say no. But sometimes a few will say yes. They get into prayer asking God to forgive them for their rebellion, and want to repent and be change. So they ask Christ to come into their hearts. Orally if possible because of Romans 10:9-10. Many make the commitment but never got true faith.
---Mark_V. on 6/30/11

donna66, the sinners prayer in which I was speaking are generally on tracts that people hand out. In my husbands case, it was in the back of a new testiment given to him by a chaplain in the military. He was led to believe if he signed it, he was saved. At that time, he didn't know any better so he signed it. He spent lot of years thinking he was saved. When he really did get saved, he became a new person in Christ.
---shira3877 on 6/30/11

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shira3877--- I just wanted to know what you meant by the "sinners prayer". I'm not familiar with a written prayer that someone is expected to sign. I can understand your objection, if that's what you meant.

A lot of people, after they speak to someone about Jesus, will lead that person, if willing, in a prayer of repentance and surrender to Jesus. They just pray what comes to mind, usually including scripture. It's not a memorized prayer.. but they may call such prayer "the
sinners prayer".

it's a term that has different meanings to different people.
---Donna66 on 6/29/11

mima * I am reminded of John 6:37,
" All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

Yes, Jesus will not cast out but he will let you go, case in point is Judas, he was chosen by Jesus himself but allow him to leave!

mima *Those of you who criticize a sinner's prayer might want to reconsider. In fact you might want to say a sinner's prayer yourself.

But the problem with your theology is that you tell them they are on the way to heaven. Jesus tell us " those who 'endure' to the end will be saved". You also say works play no part but Jesus tells us "If you love me, you will keep my commandments, it's just not Faith alone!

---Ruben on 6/29/11

After reading some of the post I am reminded of John 6:37,
" All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." When you ask a person do you want to pray about your salvation and they say yes, do you think that they have come to Jesus? If so, then he will not throw them out(say no)!!! Those of you who criticize a sinner's prayer might want to reconsider. In fact you might want to say a sinner's prayer yourself.

A friend heard me lead a person in a sinner's prayer and then said I want to say that prayer also. Why? Because upon hearing it he was convicted and wanted to be sure.
---mima on 6/29/11

donna66, here we go again. Telling someone about Jesus and praying with them may go together but they surely are not the same thing. How do I do it? I tell them about Jesus and pray with them. If you can't see the difference, I will tell you. A written sinners prayer that someone signs and thinks they are saved is a whole barrel different from praying with someone for salvation.
---shira3877 on 6/29/11

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shira3877-- // just tell them about Jesus and pray with them.//

Can you explain how you would pray with someone you just told about Jesus? How would your prayer be different from the so-called "sinners prayer" as you understand it?
---Donna66 on 6/28/11

I agree Shira. It's not so much the words they say but the repentant heart that God hears & is listening for. Lots of people who repeat a prayer don't even consider themselves lost without God. Like my dad has always preached,"You've gotta be lost before you can be saved. If I can talk you into it, the world can lure you back. God has to be drawing you, making you realize you're lost & in need of a Saviour before you can get saved." That's the one's who really mean it when they pray a sinner's prayer.
---Reba on 6/28/11

nothing wrong with the sinner saying a prayer. My husband almost went to hell because of a sinners prayer some chaplain gave him in the military. I do not think people who sign a sinners prayer are saved. Some just sign it so you will go away. What an abomination. If God tells you to witness to someone, just tell them about Jesus and pray with them. It will do more than getting someone to sign a sinners prayer.
---shira3877 on 6/28/11

//Yes I do she said. I then I let her in a sinners prayer mima on 6/28/11//

where do you find "a sinners prayer?"
---michael_e on 6/28/11

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That's a terrible way to talk to someone as a witness mima. Do you think using slang/cursing makes you appear clever? Sorry,I'm not impressed.
---Reba on 6/28/11

I said your good deed has not one damn thing to do with your salvation. Your good deed has to do with rewards but first you must be saved. I told her the Bible says three different times whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. She looked at me kind of funny and I asked her to you want to call? Yes I do she said. I then I let her in a sinners prayer and ask her to you feel different down in your gut than when we first started talking. Yes I do she said and got very happy
---mima on 6/28/11

Mima, and you answer was?
---atheist on 6/27/11

Donna something like 50% of the people that I witnessed to give this" I'm a good person" as a qualification to go to heaven. It is my belief that the inability to arrive at eternal security lends onesself to believing that being a "good person" is their ticket in. Ridiculous? Yes but the blind cannot see, either by design or intent.
---mima on 6/27/11

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I would tell her that Jesus said HE is the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to Him except the Father draws Him.

I would ask her where is that in scripture? That if you take care of your mother, you get into heaven.

My sister thinks she's going to heaven and she's not saved but said she's a GOOD person and that's why she's going to heaven (She's Catholic). She didn't forgive my father for 20 years and he died not knowing I went and got her so she could have closure and now she's as bitter as two bitter grapes at me for going and getting her to see my father. Amazing what people come up with, isn't it?
---Donna5535 on 6/27/11

This question was asked to Billy Graham and Mother Teresa. "On a scale of 1 to 10. Ten being the best. What would you rank yourself as a christian?" Billy Graham's answer "What was Mother Teresa's answer." Mother Teresa's answer was 3 so Billy said "2." Conclusion - Are you good compared to them? God requires a 10.
---Scott on 6/27/11

Yesterday I showed my 10-year-old grandson this question. I would tell her two things he said. One that she had done a good thing and second salvation only comes by asking the Lord Jesus Christ to save her soul. Then he asked me this question. If God knows who is going to be saved(because he knows everything) why do people like you stand on street corners and witness?
---mima on 6/27/11

Craig, Romans 4 applies quite well. Glad you posted that. I'd like to add to "Scripture shows us that faith/belief/trust is not a "work". We still dont deserve anything. But God requires faith in his promises before he will justify us. And he assures us when we place our faith in Jesus we "will not be ashamed"." true, it's not a work on our part, however,John 6:29....The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.
---christina on 6/26/11

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Romans 4

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Scripture shows us that faith/belief/trust is not a "work". We still dont deserve anything. But God requires faith in his promises before he will justify us. And he assures us when we place our faith in Jesus we "will not be ashamed".
---CraigA on 6/26/11

Okay, Cluny, I'm taking the bait about whether belief is a work because we do the choosing. I think belief involves use of the heart and mind, and WORKS involve use of the physical body. Are there scriptures that say otherwise?
---Geraldine on 6/26/11

Ask her if she believes she is a good person. If she says "yes", then go through the 10 Commandments to show her that she is a sinner in need of a Savior. Then explain the Gospel to her that Jesus said that NO one comes to the Father but by Him. Then explain that Jesus' way to come to Him is by repentance and trusting in Him as Savior and Lord. For more info. on how to share your faith Biblically, effectively, and the way Jesus did, go to Way Of The Master's website.
---Leslie on 6/26/11

Eph. 2:8-9, For by grace are ye saved through faith, & that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
---Reba on 6/26/11

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what makes you think that YOU are going to heaven, mima?

Where did you get the idea that your own faith (which is ultimately a work, as YOU are the one who does the believing) is sufficient to get you there?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/26/11

"What would you have told her?"
"Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Acknowledge His atoning sacrifice for you, and confess Him as Lord of your salvation and redemption.
---Josef on 6/26/11

The woman presented her WORKS as heaven insurance. I would have asked her, "But what do you believe about Jesus?"
---Geraldine on 6/26/11

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