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Disciples Receive Holy Spirit

John 20:22 says this, " And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:" Did the disciples received the Holy Spirit at this time or did they receive the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost?

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Cliff, I have never heard it put that way.
---Warwick on 8/1/11

Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
-There is physically dead and spiritually dead.
-That is why:
John 3:6-7 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
---micha9344 on 8/1/11

Warwick, Rich man and Lazarus!Luke 16.
I wasn't implying that you were lying,just playing it cool, forcing me to write it out!
So many things are said by "letters" today (LOL).
---1st_cliff on 8/1/11

Cliff, I am not a liar and cannot think what you mean by "RM & L at LK.16." Please explain.
---Warwick on 7/31/11

Warwick, As to RM & L at LK.16, I haven't the slightest doubt that you know exactly what it is.You're not exactly a novice!
Ask any Evangelical what happens at death and they will invariably point out Luke 16 (RM & L) as their reason for believing life continues after death!
One passage by a non Apostle,non Jew (Greek) unsubstantiated by any other bible writer!
Pretty flimsy evedence, because life ceases at death to wait for the resurrection! As Jesus says! John5.28.
---1st_cliff on 7/31/11

Cliff, I agree communion has become somewhat of a ritual, removed from its original meal context. But it still depends upon the heart of the one taking communion, no matter how it is taken.

I have no reason to believe that Luke or Paul instituted anything different to what Mark and Matthew et al, understood Jesus to mean, and did.
---Warwick on 7/31/11

Warwick My point.
Command is one thing, suggestion is quite another.
Paul and Luke wrote this as a "command" (KEEP doing this)
They were not there!
Consequently it has become a religious ritual!
If you wish to remember ,by sharing bread and wine in remembrance,
that's your prerogative!
Jesus' commandments are very limited!
---1st_cliff on 7/30/11

Cliff over a relaxed Saturday morning breakfast I thought again about your communion comments.

I have a question. I know you sometimes have a point so could you please expalin what it is?

I just don't see why remembering Jesus via bread and wine is such a no no to you!
---Warwick on 7/29/11

Cliff, it is you who does not get the point. Willa does.

There is no suggestion this was a once only thing for Jesus' followers. Therefore why shouldn't we remember what He has done for us, as Willa says?

What is "RM & L Lk.16,"?
---Warwick on 7/29/11


//Jesus said "I won't drink it again ...'till I drink it anew with you in the Kingdom"//

It seems the key word here is I. Which of coarse Jesus would not since he went to the cross, was raised and ascended to the Father. This isn't done as a ritual but during a meal with brothers and sisters. It reminds me of an Anniversary or Birthday. It is a time set apart for us to remember as a body what he gave for us. Don't look at it as a ritual, that's not what it is, but a time we as Jesus' disciples remember together in fellowship and thanksgiving our Lords love and example for us. And of coarse we should daily remember his sacrificial offering.
---willa5568 on 7/29/11

Warwick, You're right,you don't get the point!
Jesus did not say "keep doing this" Paul and Luke you believe 12 who were there and said nothing about continuing this practice or 2 who were not there??
IF Jesus had said this (in essence,as you put it) then they ate bread and drank wine every day ,so, remember Him every day but not as a religious ritual!
The strongest evidence evangelicals have of life continuing after death is RM & L Lk.16, no corroboration!
---1st_cliff on 7/29/11

Cliff, sometimes you say the most ridiculous things. Jesus says-do this in rembrance of me. And says He will not do it again until, in your words, "the Kingdom is established." Had He meant it to stop with this one instance He would have had to tell them.

I think you are getting the command to remember Him in the drinking and eating of two common foods with the stylized Holy Communion of the Roman church.
---Warwick on 7/28/11

Willa,Paul's words are "hearsay",adding whatever,
Jesus said "I won't drink it again ...'till I drink it anew with you in the Kingdom" Sounds like he ended it then and there,'till the Kingdom is established.
The Jews met every year on Nisan 14 for passover, but Christ fulfilled it..done!
We have enough commands to obey without adding more.
Do we need to crucify Him on a regular basis in order to "remember" the price He paid?
I remember daily!
---1st_cliff on 7/28/11

Cliff,Matthew records that Jesus told those assembled to remember Him when drinking wine and eating bread. These are two common things which accompany meals. Therefore why should we not remember Him likewise. Is not Luke just repeating the essence of what Jesus said?

I just don't get your point?
---Warwick on 7/28/11


I have to disagree about Matthew 26. It was done during the feast of Unleavened Bread of which the Passover was on the last day. This was not a ritual but a meal of which Paul also says in 1Corinthians 11:20-21. This remembrance is done during the meal at some point. I agree though it certainly is a ritual now. The most important thing that has vanished other than a remembering of his death, is the one cup and one piece of bread broken that all took part of. This is a symbolism of the unity of his disciples (including us) with his death and us being joined together by it.
---willa5568 on 7/28/11

Warwick, As I pointed out ,Mat 26. says Jesus,gave them bread and said this is(represents) my body,eat etc.. no way suggesting a weekly, monthly,yearly ritual, This came from Paul's and Luke's writing (who were not there)
Matthew-Revelation, valuable and historic info, but God breathed,like the OT scrolls ???? Jesus would have said!
How valuable are "rituals" all the pagan religions have them! It was Paul who instituted "rituals" (church laws)
---1st_cliff on 7/28/11

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Cliff 2 Peter 3,16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

All the other versions including KJV, ASV, NASB, Holman, Darby and Douay-Rheims, agree that Paul's writinga are included in the Scriptures!

To assume Matthew to Revelation is not Scripture is just that, assumption.

At the Last Supper, Jesus commanded His followers to remember Him in the eating of bread and the drinking of wine. Are you saying we should not likewise do so?
---Warwick on 7/28/11

Truthfully, where is any NT writing called "scripture"??

No,you don't separate God from His word,you do not add "inspired" to words that are not His or Jesus'!
---1st_cliff on 7/27/11

You've touched on something that is notable in the modern day churches.
This doing away with witnesses in the OT. Modern doctrine/denom's must avoid them because they do not sustain their preaching/teaching. A sign/mark.

Some dwell in Genesis....and the New Testament as evidenced. Being uncomfortable with anything in between.
Truth is up to the individual. Search it....adopt it.
Psalm 25:10
All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
---Trav on 7/28/11

Warwick, We need to get a few things straight here..
Mathew (who was an attendee ) no way indicated an ongoing ritual (Mat.26)
2Tim.3.16 ** all scripture is God breathed and useful for teaching etc..** is referring to OT only!
Truthfully, where is any NT writing called "scripture"??
To imagine that he (Paul) knew he was writing "scripture" is pompous beyond belief!
No,you don't separate God from His word,you do not add "inspired" to words that are not His or Jesus'!
Whether or not Christ intened for His words to be recorded and used as scripture ,He never indicated!nor designated a writer! ('cept maybe John-Revelation?)
---1st_cliff on 7/27/11

Cliff if someone comes to the word of God with an open mind wanting to learn but wonders about things, that is normal.

But rejecting what His word says because of extraBiblical beliefs is something totally different. How do you separate God from his word?

Subversives-alive and well here!

"Do this in remembrance of me" Matt.26:26-28,Mark 14: 22-24, Luke 22: 17-20, 1 Corinthians 11:24. Where do you think Paul and Luke got this from?

In reality Christianity leans upon all Scripture which is "is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," 2 Timothy 3:16.

"RM & L Lk.16, again no confirmation" ???
---Warwick on 7/26/11

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Warwick, You and others seem to think questioning scripture is tantamount to questioning God,but is it??
We're in a holy warfare with satan. What enemy does not plant subversives??
Why would anyone question Paul or Luke?
1st suspicion= together they claimed Jesus said"keep doing this in remembrance of me" (communion all Christendom obey this)) neither one was at the last supper, and no one else confirms who "were" there!
#2 Christendom leans heavily on RM & L Lk.16, again no confirmation from anyone else! Luke-Greek Gentile non-apostle!
What is your reason for accepting/believing this?
---1st_cliff on 7/26/11

even today, "moles" are planted (infiltrated) in organizations!

Amen. Jesus calls them tares.

James brother puts it this way.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old, ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
---aka on 7/26/11


you are very correct, Evangelicals understand immortality of the soul to be what this speaks of and the Pharisee did as well teach this. But I personally do not see this in Paul's writings, but rather see that the dead are dead or they sleep as Jesus himself said util the resurrection. The Gospel of John many have consider to be of the Hellenic persuasion also which when read correctly is not the case. Acts is also challenged.
---willa5568 on 7/25/11

Cliff you reject Paul as an appostle called by God despite the Scriptures people have given. You have given none to support you claim, because there are none! That should tell you something?

Acts 9: 10 'In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!" "Yes, Lord," he answered.'

11 'The Lord told him, "Go ....and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying...."

15 'But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel...."

What part of "This man is my chosen instrument...." wont you understand?
---Warwick on 7/25/11

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Warwick, JWs left there mark on me?? True as Catholics have left their mark on you (trinity, hell fire,etc.)
Does that make you one??

aka, They "heard" voices but did not "hear" the conversation!(Act.22.9)
Satan's no dummy, even today, "moles" are planted (infiltrated) in organizations!

Wliia, Evangelicals see this "absent from the body" as instantaneous (my point)
Pharisees ,as a group, believed Immortality of the soul (Zondervan dictionary P454)
---1st_cliff on 7/25/11


Many twist Paul's writing to fit their beliefs. The Greek idea of God and the soul corrupted what Paul wrote as Peter says, "Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they also do to the rest of the scriptures". Read his writings from a Jewish understanding

just a note: the "absent from the body", when reading the whole passage is speaking of not being in our tent(temporal body of dust) and being in our resurrected body. Basically, as long as we are mortal we can not be with the Lord but when we put on our heavenly dwelling(glorified bodies) we will be present with the Lord as we all should desire.
---willa5568 on 7/25/11

//No one saw a person or heard the conversation on the road to Damascus!//

true no one saw, but others heard.

Act 9:7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

the Lord told Ananias. Ananias "hijacked" Paul.

Act 9:17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
---aka on 7/24/11

Cliff, it is obvious from your writing that you have left the Jehovah's Witness cult but they have left their mark upon you.

In your endeavour to reject Paul you attempt to undermine Peter. Certainly Peter is a sinner just as we all are, but he was reconciled with Christ, and forgiven. And he became a powerful leader of the church.

Be careful what you say about God's annointed.
---Warwick on 7/24/11

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Peter's track record wasn't exactly rock solid, after walking with Christ for 3 1/2 years turned around and denied Him, like you and I ,an ordinary person easily swayed, but certainly no Pharisee!
All the brilliant words of Paul is like the "bait" but is spoiled by "absent from the body", subtle but enough to implant the erroneous doctrine of "immortality of the soul."
The false pagan idea that makes the truth hard to correlate with the gospel! Especially Christ's words on the "resurrection of the DEAD" (not dead bodies)
---1st_cliff on 7/24/11

I take Jesus' words very seriously indeed and when Jesus was talking about the Holy Spirit in John 16, He is speaking to his disciples, who are his eyewitnessess. PAUL IS NOT THERE, NEITHER IS LUKE. Listen to Jesus' prayer to His Father...."neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through THEIR word." Jesus is praying for his disciples, PAUL IS NOT THERE. Eyewitnesses = disciples. I am not an eyewitness...but I can learn from them if I have ears to hear and eyes to see.

As to 2nd Peter 3:15-16...well sometimes you just have to do your own research.
---barb on 7/24/11


Do you accept the Gospel of Luke as a writing Christians are to accept as the others(Matthew, Mark, John)? If not then Acts is also to be rejected, if it is then that is the witness that Paul was called to be an Apostle. There were many Pharisees who were disciples of Jesus including Joseph of Arimathaea and Nicodemus.
---willa5568 on 7/24/11

Cliff, you can only maintain your position by ignoring Scripture:

2 Peter 3:15,16 "Bear in mind that our Lords patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him."

" ...... His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Peter attests to Pauls veracity, that He writes what God has given Him, and his writings are Scripture.

Paul's life was in a moment turned from Christ hater to Christ lover who was most instrumental in spereading the gospel to Gentiles. This is testimony to who he was, as Peter attests.
---Warwick on 7/24/11

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Let's get real here, huh!
Where's God's or Jesus' words appointing Paul an apostle?
Peter accepted him? sure 30 years after he hijacked the Christian congregation!
No one saw a person or heard the conversation on the road to Damascus!
Like Constantine (also the "only one" seeing the burning cross in the sky)
By who's authority was Paul's writings declared "inspired"? Consensus? is that how God "breathes" scripture?
Jesus stated what He thought of Pharisees in no uncertain terms! Did He eat His words?? I think not!
Mat.24.24. elect deceived?
---1st_cliff on 7/24/11


The words of Jesus are certainly the rock we should stand on as well as his apostles. But consider even Peter acknowledged Paul to be a brother and one who was an accepted teacher in the church though many twisted and misrepresented his words. There is a lot of wisdom, encouragement and biblical learning in his writings. You are free to reject them but you may limit yourself in understanding many things that are important in our knowledge concerning a deeper revelation of what we are and are to be in Christ and fellowship with one another and God himself.
---willa5568 on 7/23/11

Barb, until you discredit these writings also, your words have no affect. anyway, since you are not an eyewitness, why should we follow your lack of true witness?

2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
2Pe 3:18 ...
---aka on 7/23/11

barb, thank you for making it clear to me that you do not believe the inspired Word of God. because that is what you are claiming. That only when Jesus speaks, that was the only Truth. Here is what you are saying that Jesus told the disciples that, "However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth, for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak, and He will tell you thing to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you." you say that is not true. The Spirit does not reveal the Truth, only Jesus does. You might as well throw the Bible in the trash.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/11

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The Holy Spirit is One with God, "third person" of the Holy Trinity. He was there in the beginning, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Genesis1:2. The Holy Spirit is the same from Genesis to Revelation - no different as some would claim.

God's people (His elect) are/will be born of the Holy Spirit, from Abel to the last saint elected by God will receive His Spirit. Jesus declared, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John3:5

As God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are One God, Heb13:8 declares, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."
---christan on 7/23/11

Mark V, I am not the judge of the truth. Jesus Christ is the truth, the way and the life. Jesus promised his disciples (eyewitnesses) that the Holy Spirit would bring all things to their remembrance, John 14:26. Paul was NOT there, neither was Luke.

Any questions I have in regard to the Holy Spirit or anything else for that matter, I go the words of Jesus Christ not Paul or Luke or some other self proclaimed prophet or apostle. John 17:17. God gave Jesus the words that He spoke and His words and His words only are the truth. John 14:24, John 12:49.

When you don't know the difference between the Holy Spirit described by Jesus in John 16 and the Spirit described by Luke in Acts 2 you are in danger of Matt. 12:30-33.
---barb on 7/23/11

they did not receive holy spirit until the day of Pentecost for this reason, Thomas was not present when Jesus said in John 20:22 "receive the holy spirit".

20:24-"Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came"
---willa5568 on 7/22/11

Mark V, Thanks for responding to my post.
**the spirit is the element in me which gives me the ability to think of God**
How does this differ from the brain?? (the seat of all emotion and thought)
A person with Alzheimer's or Dementia loses ability to think of even simple things , at this point, Where is,or what happens to the "spirit" that you are talking about????
---1st_cliff on 7/22/11

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1Cliff, I believe your question was to bring another question. But it's ok. As for me, you said Mark, my spirit, because I'm saved by the grace of God through faith, the spirit is the element in me which gives me the ability to think of God. It is man's window to God. It is immaterial, invisible part of me, (Luke 8:55: 24:37,39: Acts 7:59: 1 Cor. 5:3-5). The animals do not have a spirit, but have a soul. A soul is the element of life whereas the spirit is the element of faith.
---Mark_V. on 7/21/11

Mima: The Holy Spirit is always given to human-being in levels. It can be increased or decreased to different levels. You can get this picture from Numbers 11:17 & John 3:34.
---Adetunji on 7/21/11

Scott it looks like you are a new Scott, not the one who had been blogging for years. If so how about adding something to your name so we know which Scott you are?

ScotX maybe.
---Warwick on 7/20/11

barb, that Luke was not an eyewitness means nothing. All writers of Scripture were inspired by God. To say that because he was not an eyewitness his words are not truth, is to put doubt on the inspired Word of God. You are intitled to believe what you feel, but I would suggest that if you put doubt in one part you might as well be the judge of what is Truth and what is not.
The Spirit was given to the disciples before Pentecost, but were to wait for a special manifestation of the Spirit at Pentecost that would empower them and all believers for their ministry permentantly. That had not happen before only in very few occasions.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/11

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The disciples received the Holy Spirt in John 20:22. John was an eyewitness of Jesus' and so we can believe him. Luke who was a follower of Paul/Saul wrote Acts and the Gospel of Luke. He was not an eyewitness.

The Holy Spirit is portrayed as a dove in Matthew 3:16 while the Holy Spirit in Acts is a mighty rushing wind with a cloven tongue. This should warn us that something is not right here. Would the Holy Spirit speak with a forked tongue?

Jesus gave the Holy Spirit peacefully in John 20:21. How did Elijah know when God had arrived to talk to him in 1 Kings 19:11-13? God was not in the strong wind or in the it was a still small voice.

---barb on 7/20/11

Mark V, I'm glad you're in good spirits, I never wish anyone ill will!
One question Mark, is Mark's spirit a separate being from Mark V. the human??
---1st_cliff on 7/20/11

1 Cliff, I'm in great spirits today. My Spirit is joyful. But Christ in me is working through me. You can call Him the Spirit of Christ or the Spirit of God. Whichever you desire, for it is One in the same. Jesus also had His own human spirit, but was also God in Spirit. Of course you have to believe it by faith, for anything without faith is sin. "For blessed are those who believe, but do not see"
---Mark_V. on 7/20/11

Mark V, Angels are spirit beings.
How does the fact that God's spirit or Jesus' spirit, or Mark's spirit (are you in a good spirit today?)make it a separate person???
Both God and Jesus use Holy Spirit to accomplish ..what ever! It is the power they use. Personification does not make it a person.
A ship is always "she"
---1st_cliff on 7/20/11

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1 Cliff, the Holy Spirit is a spiritual person with a personality who can talk. Angels are also spiritual unless they manifest as a human beings. The fact that the Holy Spirit bears divine names is a proof of His deity. Sixteen times He is related by name to the other two persons of the Trinity. For example, He is called "the Spirit of God" by Paul in 1 Cor. 6:11. Again, in Greek texts of Acts 16:7 He is called "the Spirit of Jesus." In addition to aspects of His ministry are the works of deity.
---Mark_V. on 7/19/11

You can't "breathe" a person or personality on (onto) another person!
He said "Receive Holy Spirit" (pneuma) air, breath, the same as God breathed into the nostrils of Adam to "enliven" him.
This proves that the Holy Spirit is not a person , or the 3rd person of the trinity!
---1st_cliff on 7/19/11

The question is of "coming" and "going" When referring to God. The concept of coming and going does not refer to movement from one physical location to another, because God as a spiritual Being is Omnipresent. When Isaiah said: "Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down" ( Isa. 64:1) the context shows Isaiah knew God was with him in his ministry, and that what he was asking God for was a special manifestation of His presence. The "coming" refers to God's manifestation of Himself in a special way. When Christ commanded the disciples to wait, it was for a special manifestation of the Holy Spirit's presence, that would empower them to initiate the misionary program for the age.
---Mark_V. on 7/19/11

Both times they received the Holy Spirit. The first time was Salvation (the Holy Spirit in them). The second time was the baptism of the Holy Spirit and power (the Holy Spirit upon them).
---Leslie on 7/18/11

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I always thought of it similar to when the prophets in the OT would get HS for a short period of time.
---Scott on 7/18/11

Both. In John 20:22 they were recieved the New Birth. On the day of Pentecost they were baptized in the Holy Spirit. They had to be born-again before they could be baptized in the Holy Ghost.
---Rickey on 7/18/11

The Insufflation (as John 20:22 is called) is considered a prophecy. They received the fullness at Pentecost.

There is more to it than this, but this is the brief answer.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/11

Common sense dictates,if the diciples had received the Gift of the Holy Ghost when Christ breathed on them,Christ wouldn't have told them not to leave Jerusalem but wait on the gift my father promised,- Acts 1:4. What Christ was doing was passing the "sword" of spiritual battle to them just like any commanding officer does when he turns over his command. They received the HG here, Acts 2:33 Exalted to the right hand of God,he has received from the Father the promised HS and has poured out what you now "see" and "hear".
---Darlene_1 on 7/18/11

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