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Debt Crisis God's Judgment

Is the Debt Crisis God's judgment on America?

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 ---kathr4453 on 7/30/11
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The most terrible kind of judgment God can render is to just sit back and do nothing, and let someone suffers the ill-effects of his own poor choices. Such a person cannot blame anyone else but himself. He cannot claim life is unfair. He cannot claim God is unfair. The same applies to groups and nations as well.
---StrongAxe on 8/8/11


The bottom line is that unemployment will remain high until the demands for products increase enough to bring about higher production, where more people are needed to produce the products.

But it takes a lot longer to build up wealth than it does to lose it.

When President Obama goes on TV and babbles about encouraging business to spend money and hire people he shows his complete ignorance for business and economics.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/11

Gal.5:19-21 give a list of practices that are from the fallen nature of man that are condemned. One is called witchcraft (sorcery) this word in the Greek language is Pharmakia where we get our word Pharmacy. Drugs can open one up to the spiritual realm as it alters the mind to function in a way unnatural to the how we were made.

In the end of time this will increase and be part of peoples lifestyle. Rev.9:21, "And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts." Gr. pharmakeus), from pharmakon (a drug, i.e. spell-giving potion), a druggist ("pharmacist") or poisoner, i.e. (by extension) a magician: sorcerer.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/11

We all know that drugs and sexual immorality work hand in hand. JUST LOOK at the sexual immorality of our politicians, as well as our nation.

We also know that drug atticks and alcololics have a seered conscience. Their conscience of right and wrong is impared. That is a fact. They can look you right in the face and LIE without blinking a eye.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/11

MARK V, Sorry, but what you just said is not exactly true. GOD would prefer a Godly President to govern America. But, the PEOPLE have to want such a President. Such is not the case. A Mr. Chuck Baldwin ran for President in 2008, and he is a man after GOD's own Heart, like a king David. And, he barely got noticed, if at all, by the major media venues. The main media is of the world system, and Satan is the god of this world. Even the Church didn't care enough to want someone like Chuck who IS a solid Christian and knows the Constitution and how important Religious Freedom is. America, instead got what SHE (not GOD) voted for. GOD, yes, ALLOWED it as Judgment on America. But, it wasn't His Perfect Will.
---Gordon on 8/8/11

Donna... who is the S & P to judge what our government does. Read a good article on that today written by Robert Reich. You can google it.

Kathr: "Bailing out everyone BUT the poor little taxpayer now sitting jobless and homeless, as his hard earned TAX money.."

I doubt the homeless/jobless people don't pay taxes. Think maybe the jobless are that way because the companies moved the jobs overseas?
---NurseRobert on 8/8/11

I call it cause and effect.
---Donna66 on 8/7/11

Some NOW believe God is biting his nails wondering how it's all going to turn out!

Yes Taxpayers do supply the money, WILLINGLY, but were never asked or allowed to vote on the trillions of dollars spent on bailouts. Bailing out everyone BUT the poor little taxpayer now sitting jobless and homeless, as his hard earned TAX money went to bailing out (covering up) CRIMINALS, and bank fraud.

Now with Jobless and homeless, all the LESS people to get taxes from...and who's fault is that? My taxes go UP and UP but the value of my home is going down...why, because of needed tax money others NOW can't contrbute to. I'm pulling MORE than my fair share some would call EXTORTION!
---kathr4453 on 8/8/11

Back when NY was in trouble and nearly went bankrupt, the US Government loaned NY money. Ford was in office. The Government MADE money on the interest of that loan. So fact is, the Government gets money form other sources than our tax dollars.

Since the drug companies (pushers) spend trillions on pushing drugs/advertising and wineing and dining Government let them pay the bill. Maybe their the reason they're all incompatent anyway...

How many in Washington "have a headache, feelings of anxiety" etc....I'm sure they can FIX them up, along with the rest of ANXIOUS America.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/11

Just one last word about DRUGS in America. Perscriotion or not, drug abuse and addiction is sorcery, and here we claim to be a Christian Nation and the biggest drug pushers and abusers than anyone else in the world. How many kids are on candy cocane? 95% of the world's redalin(sp) and such are used right here in the USA! Everyone I know has kids or Grandchildren on this stuff...or ZANAX.

How does that work hand in hand?

God will not be MOCKED.

Of coarse Donna66 being a Nurse will amuse us by excusing this??????
---kathr4453 on 8/8/11

Taxpayers just supply the money. Congress decides how to spend it...they need to cut spending...even if they can't give everybody everything they want. Tax revenues can never catch up.
(not even if you tax those who earn at or more than 250K at 100%)

Alan of UK-- That's just my point! The U.S. doesn't deserve a AAA rating, at least not according to Standard and Poor. The government has brought this on themselves...Our debts nearly equal our GDP.
We are just a step behind Greece. Would you expect S & P to rate Greece AAA?

Some call it God's judgment, OK. And maybe it is.
I call it cause and effect.
---Donna66 on 8/7/11

what on earth has the credit rating of the usa, or of any other country. got to do with God?

has america in the past had the aaa rating, while other countries had lower ratings, because she has been a better servant of God than the others

sorry for lower case only, but i have broken my wrist and can't reach two keys at once
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/7/11

Exactly how are the taxpayers responsible for the trillions mis-managed by the pentagon, or the billion in CASH sent over to Iraq on a cargo plane that has disappeared. Hello, anyone ever heard of wire transfers?

Or the money robbed out of OUR social security. No, it's not a welfare program, thank you. Or the millions, billions spent on studies like cow crepitations...I'm not kidding.

Irresponsible spending, I don't believe we are enabling.

Just why are those who have served office kept on the payroll for EVER. Did the American tax payer vote YES on that? Did Jefferson draw a pension until he died? If he had, he wouldn't have died in debt.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/11

Mark--The whole problem is that we have been spending money with NO thought as to how we will pay when the debt is due! Our government is like a kid with his first credit card...who has no money of his own, but relies on somebody else to bail him out if he overspends.

Citizens of the U.S. WILL pay the bill. Government HAS no funds of its own.
But taxpayers have been the enablers of financial recklessness. To pay and pay and pay some more is NOT common sense.
Let the government FIRST figure how to to cut expenses. The REAL answer is to CUT SPENDING.
Thank God, Standard & Poor, by reducing our "credit rating" (so to speak),is a voice our government cannot ignore.
---Donna66 on 8/7/11

PETER, Yes, We DO need to know. We already live in enough self-imposed ignorance of the Truths of what GOD is really doing. The Economic Crisis is all of the above! It is the American Government's GREED and financial foolishness. It is the American citizen's own greed and lust to "keep up with the Jones'". It is The New World Order, behind-the-scenes, a-movin' and a-shakin' things to put America in this Third-World position. It is, finally and above all, GOD's Judgment on America. GOD allows the evil NWO constituents and the money grubbers to do their thing to punish and judge America for making $$$$ her god, rather than GOD Himself. It all works together. It's not just one thing or the other.
---Gordon on 8/7/11

For the first time in the history of America our credit rating has dropped.

You know I can't help but compare America to Tyre, Isaiah 23, which also is the same description of Colossus/Laeodocia, and a warning to the Church in Rev 3. Another description later in Revelation when Mystery Babylon is fallen, and the total economical collapse of the world.

We are warned to come out from among her...and so many today believing their prosperity is God's blessing may want to revisit Rev 3 the final warning to the Churches, and the end result for those who don't.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/11

The real question is: Is the debt crisis GOD'S judgement or a crisis WE brought upon ourselves.

We don't need to know - we only need to fight the problem in BOTH fronts - both debt and distance from God
---Peter on 8/7/11

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In this last crisis it is strange to see those who are God's servants (or who use God's name more) insisting we should not fix the debt problem

It is so simple - if you don't have any money there is NO WAY you can pay off debt

But our Christian politicians insist they can pay off debt without first GETTING THE MONEY

GOD did give us brains - why don't they use the brains GOD GAVE THEM
---Mark on 8/7/11

What I find interesting is building #7, having a small fire ended in imploding too into it's own footprint.

There certainly are many unanswered questions.
---kathr4453 on 8/6/11

Alan of U.K., YES. The New World Order has infiltrated the U.S. Government. It has had to, in order for America to come under the Empiric Umbrella of the Anti-Christ. I know this sounds like colourful conspiracy. It is not. Those people in elitist groups, secret societies, all with personal influence, BIG MONEY, position and "power" who are helping to build this NWO "behind-the-scenes" are in our Government. And, the Presidents are doing their part, too. Bush, Sr. (with the 7 Noahide Laws). Bill Clinton, Bush "W" and now Barak O. The Evil and Corruption has been totally and completely underestimated. The Lord has informed His people that He is SOON coming back. The Anti-Christ must appear even before THAT.
---Gordon on 8/6/11

Alan of U.K., Not EVERYONE in the U.S. Government was in on the 9-11 Horror. Rather, there were those within the Government who were. The NWO will be Global. The Anti-Christ will reign over the entire Planet. Any country that will not submit will either be brought down to submission or will be blasted. Of course, GOD will have HIS own Remnant in every nation. But, this World is being morphed and prepped to receive the Anti-Christ. That is the agenda of the New World Order. FEMA, INTERPOL, etc. are included. 9-11 was staged (YES, at the expense of LIVES, of SOULS. For Satan comes to steal, KILL and destroy!). 9-11 was played out to bring about the "need" for Homeland Security (which will be a Trap). Freedom for "security".
---Gordon on 8/6/11

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Also, I do need to explain...How could "9-11" be BOTH "Judgment from GOD" and an "enactment of the New World Order agenda". Because, GOD uses the enemies of any given nation, to come against that nation, to which HE is about to bring Judgment. GOD does it that way. It's all over in the Canonical Scriptures (GOD dealt with Israel in that same way many times). Islamic terrorists ARE America's enemies and they were involved in "9-11". GOD allowed the enemy to do their thing against America to serve both as Judgment on America and as a WAKE-UP CALL to her Churches and her citizens. Not to mention how it has helped to usher in the Anti-Christ kingdom, which is ALSO GOD's Judgment on the World.
---Gordon on 8/6/11

alan of UK-- Like many unanticipated and shocking events, 9-11 still causes
controversy...still seeks an explanation.

A few think the US government was complicit, but that's not the majority view.

I thought Mima was saying he thinks that military action may be the only way out of being forced into a "one-world government" (which many believe will be set up by the Anti-Christ). But if that's what he meant, it has nothing to do with the US being "God's special nation". Other nations who might rather keep their sovereignty, haven't the same power to resist militarily as the US. That's just a fact.

But by the time that happens, it may be that Americans won't even care.
---Donna66 on 8/5/11

Allen---I said it was wrong and inhumane. If it makes you feel better, it was WICKED, UNGODLY, DESPICABLE! That's WHY it was ABOLISHED!
What else needs to be said?

BTW,we were not "slaves" to England...even indentured servants could "earn" their way to freedom! Politically, we had an unpalatable bond to England which we fought to escape, but that's hardly analogous to the inhumanity of "slavery".

---Donna66 on 8/5/11

gordon .. are you suggesting that the us government was complicit in 9/1?

mima ... you appear to say that the us should use military action. would God approve this because the us is |His special nation?
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/5/11

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The significance of the debt crisis cannot be totally realized at this time. Gordon is correct events are now shaping the path the nation will have to take the end result of which I believe will be economic chaos which will be the forerunner of a one world government. Our only chance to escape this would be use of military power. Our severe lack of commitment now becomes obvious. As we actually have no leaders available.
---mima on 8/5/11

Btw, Pertaining to my last comment. 9-11 was GOD's Warning and WAKE UP CALL to America. But, 9-11 happened via the U.S. Government shaking hands with the terrorists in order to create this crisis that would call for "tighter security" and FEMA: Homeland Security. Which will, in time, lead to things like Martial Law and leaving restrictions on this country. The Anti-Christ WILL rule the World and GOD's people who are LEFT BEHIND will be tortured and martyred. Let's Roll will become Heads will Roll. (REVELATION 20:4)
---Gordon on 8/5/11

Christian theology and proposed practice expect you to be able, at least, to recognise wickedness as wickedness, not only in the past, but in the present as well.
---Allan on 8/5/11

I totally agree! Be not IGNORANT of these things!
---kathr4453 on 8/5/11

I believe what everyone forgets is that all presidents were presidents by the foreordained will of God. None were sinless. They all did good and bad. Some did more good then bad. They were chosen by God to be in the position they held. Whether we agree with it or not. No one was there without God allowing it or permitting it. Not a one of us have control over who is in and who is out. Sometimes we get our choice and other times we don't. When we vote, it has already been determined by God who will be there. What we do and what God does are two different things. Stop blaming presidents and begin to ask God for a good one.
---Mark_V. on 8/5/11

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Thank you, Kathr4453. The Ball of Judgment has begun to roll. The Christian radio hosts and many christian leaders are advocating having this economic crisis reversed and getting back to being the "Great Nation" that America used to be. To seek the LORD in "prayer and fasting" for America. But, this should have been done whole-heartedly and thoroughly after 9-11 happened. At first, it seemed to. But, once the threat of danger faded away, so did the zeal to repent and return to GOD. We've had 10 years to get right with GOD. Even much more time before 9-11. We're a stubborn and arrogant nation. And we shall be PAINFULLY humbled. We're on GOD's Time now. He has His own Kingdom to usher in, but, not before Jacob's Trouble.
---Gordon on 8/5/11

Oh, Donna66, Donna66, Donna66:

You are a professed person of moral rectitude and you make a statement such as: "There's no evidence that he treated his slaves cruelly." They were slaves, by the millions, in a country that proclaimed itself as the bastion of freedom. And whose leaders fought a war to free themselves from being slaves to British rule.

You are still willing to castigate the other person for the speck in their eye, but refuse to acknowledge the plank in your own eye.

Christian theology and proposed practice expect you to be able, at least, to recognise wickedness as wickedness, not only in the past, but in the present as well.
---Allan on 8/5/11

Of course they believed them. But like MOST of the world at that time, they did not apply these priciples to the black slave.
Washington had a few slaves, but admittedly was not sold on the idea of slavery. There's no evidence that he treated his slaves cruelly (the majority of slave owners didn't, despite what you have been taught... it behooved them to have strong, willing and healthy slaves)

. I'm really tired of this whole argument against America by her critics and so won't comment again.

Slavery was wrong and inhumane. America finally abolished slavery and then later enacted civil rights legislation. Much legislation since has diligently sought to insure equal rights for everyone.
---Donna66 on 8/4/11

Gordon, I believe your statement here is about the wisest statement I've heard.
---kathr4453 on 8/4/11

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YES. The Debt Crisis is part of GOD's Judgment. Certainly HE's allowing it to happen and run it's course. But, that's at the very LEAST. GOD blessed this nation with wealthy resources and Religious and Social Freedoms. But, we Americans, many of us, have used those resources to push GOD aside and squander His Blessings on our illicit, sinful Lusts. America has made Money her God. Money is her Security. Even in the Church. The Church focuses on the Economic Crisis and on how we can recover from it INSTEAD on recognizing that this Crisis is, indeed, from GOD's Hand. He is a Jealous GOD and will punish the false gods of America. HE will show America how weak her financial god really is. And, how her god of Money cannot save her from GOD's Judgment.
---Gordon on 8/4/11

My sense is that people here generally DO pray and give. But to their own Master they stand or fall.
---Donna66 on 8/3/11

Thank you for giving me renewed confidence in the brethren.

The circle of people I travel in are missionaries, are ministers, are teachers and preachers, are people who are passionate, committed to their Lord, and giving their lives to their walk of faith.

What I lose track of is a sense of where the rest of the BOC live their lives. You have given me renewed confidence that they too are just as passionate and committed to our Lord.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/4/11

I posted only a small part of Washington's farewell speech, in hopes one would read it all, dealing with war, the cost of war, paying off our debt as soon as possible etc.

Allan, as far as your question is concerned. The answer of what they believed personally lie in their life and actions of those beliefs. What they hoped for America they probably knew would not come overnight.

Not to change the subject but Jefferson died in debt, so he persued happiness and prosperity, leaving a perfect example for so many today to follow. Live in comfort, put it all on credit, and let the next generation pay it off.
---kathr4453 on 8/4/11

Mike Eaton--//Do you tithe? Do you support missionaries? Do you support missionaries outside of your church? Do you support pastors in other communities? Do you support pastors in other countries? Do you support ministries working in other countries? Do you travel and minister in other countries?//

My answer to all of these is yes! I have done all these things and still do some, though I cannot travel as I did. I give MORE than a tithe and, sorry, I NEVER kept (or keep) track of the time!

Not everyone has the freedom that I have had, nor the finances. It doesn't seem right to me, to judge a group of people I do not know. My sense is that people here generally DO pray and give. But to their own Master they stand or fall.
---Donna66 on 8/3/11

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There is great strength in unity even for the minority. In fact the minority can rule the majority if their unity is strong enough. Hence we have the signing of pledges and promises to certain beliefs. The end result of this will be stagnation, resentment, and open rebellion at the polls.
What direction that resentment will take I do not know.
---mima on 8/3/11

again defense budget of $700 billion ended with bush. he used fear 'if you don,t increase defense' terrorist will win. all the MESS that is happening right now came from bush. when you are cleaning up a mess it will cost more.
veterans returning - another cost for taxpayer.
what about the $2 Trillion defense money missing before 911?
i do not agree with wasted unnecessary expenses under obama.
---mike on 8/3/11

Who is "most of us"?
---Donna66 on 8/2/11

Why you, I, the rest of the bloggers, and the BOC within the USA.

Many questions come to mind about our wasting of God's time and resources.

Do you tithe? Do you support missionaries? Do you support missionaries outside of your church? Do you support pastors in other communities? Do you support pastors in other countries? Do you support ministries working in other countries? Do you travel and minister in other countries? How much time do you spend serving others? How much time do you spend serving your church? How much time do you spend witnessing to others? How much time do you spend praying for people in other countries?

See how little we really do.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/3/11


I have a question, rather than a comment. In the declaration of independence when Jefferson said "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"

Do you think that Jefferson or Washington believed those words?
---Allan on 8/3/11

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eisenhowers farwell address

We must avoid the impulse to live only for today plundering for our own ease & convinience the precious resources of tomorrow
we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence whether sought or unsought by the military industrial complex. potential for disastrous rise of misplaced power exist & will persist.
---mike on 8/3/11

From George Washington's farewell address.

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and cititzens....Let it simply be asked, where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the suppositon that morality can be maintained without religion. ---

Not room for all.

Any Comments?
---kathr4453 on 8/3/11

It is becoming clear to us in the UK that Blair took us into the Iraq war knowing that evidence was false. In fact, the evidence was cooked up on his instructions in order to justify the war.

There was no plan as to how to proceed after the victory,

An utter illegal shambles, and now it seems US citizens are at last reslising the same
---alan8566_of_uk on 8/3/11

Mark Eaton-- Who is "most of us"?

NO. The debt crisis is not judgment from God.

It is the natural result of two to three generations for whom "buy now pay later" is the norm... and who judge people's worth by the "stuff" they have.

Add to this, government that keeps thinking it is responsible to take care of all the needs of an expanding citizenry... and teaches them that they have a "right" to expect this....and CRISIS is what you get. When we spend money we don't have, print money with no real value, and still want to spend more....
what could we expect but a DEBT CRISIS?
---Donna66 on 8/2/11

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What was the total amount of money spent on Bush's ars (Iraq and Afghanistan), compared to Obama's wars (Libya and Yemen)? I am pretty sure the former dwarf the latter. Also, remember WHY we went into those wars. Bush took the U.S. into Iraq based on intelligence that he insisted was accurate, yet he PERSONALLY knew, at the time he was relying on it, was false.

You may consider Obama's wars presumptuous and/or ill-advised, but Bush's were plain and simple fraud on the American people.
---StrongAxe on 8/3/11

In this case I sure agree with steveng, wish our president would focus on solving our OWN country's problems and never mind every one else's!
---Mary on 8/2/11

What will you say when you stand before Jesus and He asks you what did you do with the opportunities He gave to you?

We are the richest people in the world, we live in the richest country in the world, and we live in the richest period in history.

Why do we care so much about the USA?

We are so spoiled. Shame on us.

Why do we care so little about the rest of the world? Most of us do not pray for people in other countries. Most of us do not support people in other countries. Most of us would never consider becoming a missionary to other countries and we do not support those who do.

God help us.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/2/11

StrongAxe: "...the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are problems he inherited from Bush."

Yea? and Obama got us into Libya and Yemen. So what's your point? Are you going to blame Lincoln for getting us into the civil war?

StrongAxe: "...The same with the bailouts - that started in the last months of the Bush administration..."

And who do you suppose were the majority rules in both houses in congress? And what other foreign governments approved of the Iraq war? At least Bush had the approval from congress and Obama chose to get us into libya without congress.
---Steveng on 8/2/11

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mike: "...the war cost $1.8 TRILLION plus another $1.5 trillion plus another $700 billion for the worst economic recession"

President Obama's Congressional Budget Office showed that the Department of Defense's direct spending on Iraq totaled at least $757.8 billion up until 2010, $2.4 trillion for the next three years under Obama.

But, of course, this is a frivolous debate compared to the world troubles that are just the beginning of the end.
---Steveng on 8/2/11

only cost $800 billion

the war cost $1.8 TRILLION plus another $1.5 trillion
plus another $700 billion for the worst economic recession
---mike on 8/2/11


Before you dump that all on Obama, remember that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are problems he inherited from Bush. The same with the bailouts - that started in the last months of the Bush administration, and was needed in order to stop the financial havoc Bush left the economy in from spiralling downwards into a second Great Depression (i.e. increasing spending on the military, while at the same time cutting taxes - leaving the bill to be paid for by his successors). Sure Obama spent a lot of money - cleaning up Bush's messes.

Also, remember Jesus said "the love of money is the root of all evil". He condemned greed, not money itself.
---StrongAxe on 8/2/11

kathr4453, consider this:

If Congress were to find a way to erase the debt in 6 months and bring prosperity, would we be avoiding or even mocking God's judgement?

Your answer to this question will be the answer to your own.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/2/11

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mike: "remember, 14 TRILLION was the result of 2 wars, tax cuts for the rich, & bailout for wall st.
14 TRILLION did not happen overnight."

The two Bush wars only cost $800 billion up until Obama took office. Obama has us in four "wars": Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, and maybe soon Mexico, Somolia and Syria.

The breakdown of the $14 trillion is as follows: $40% that the government owes itself, 20% owes to Asia countries, 11% to other foreign investors, and the rest to cities, states, banks, insurance companies, mutual funds, pension funds, and individual investors.
---Steveng on 8/1/11

remember, 14 TRILLION was the result of 2 wars, tax cuts for the rich, & bailout for wall st.
14 TRILLION did not happen overnight.
---mike on 8/1/11

There are plenty of problems in America, and they often appear to be the direct result of choices people make. So, if people are choosing what brings these problems, then I would say they are not God's judgments, but consequences. If people of a country choose to use more money than they have, they are choosing to go into debt.
---Bill_willa6989 on 7/30/11

You're seeing the trees than the forest. What's happening in Washington is small part of the bigger picture about world events. Every country in the world is having internal problems and the root of that problem is money. The common people are rising up against their government and the government is fighting back. Inflation is rising and people are not getting raises or are getting a cut in pay. Many people believe that the riots in other countries is because of the government, but in reality it's because the basic necessities are costing more than the governemnt is willing to pay out. Things are going to get a lot worse so learn a trade in which to barter.

Again, money is the root of all problems.
---Steveng on 7/30/11

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I agree with Cluny on this, also neither side is willing to give or bend a bit and the results may hurt all of us because of their stubborness!
---Mary on 7/30/11

By "debt crisis" do you mean actually running up a 14+ trillion dollar debt?

Or do you mean the paralysis in the government about dealing with it?

I think it's more likely that we as a nation are suffering the results of our own folly.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/30/11

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