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What Is A Christian

As an individual, what is your definition of a Christian, and what is your definition of the Church?

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 ---Rob on 8/1/11
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wel andy3996...

...You said "wel JW's canot be christians since they donotr accept Christ as the TRUE GOD YHWH."

Actually 'Christians' are followers of Christ. Even when tempted by Satan in the wilderness Jesus used God's word in all three instances in his reply saying "It is written..."

As keen bible students, Jehovah's Witnesses note that in his final hours Jesus, prayed to his father saying: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3, NIV

So if 'it is written' that the Father is "The only true God"...who is Jesus?
---scott on 8/9/11

wel JW's canot be christians since they donotr accept Christ as the TRUE GOD YHWH.
sincerely some Unitarians are more christian in their doctrines then the JW.
---andy3996 on 8/9/11

"I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The bible says they are One." Shira3877

Shira3877, with respect, when you "witness to a jehovah witness with [your] bible", what verse will you use that says that the 'Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one'?
---scott on 8/9/11

I agree with Shira, how can we study with JW's? Conversely I have many Christian friends of different denominations with whom I have wonderful Christian fellowship.

I cannot however have any Christian fellowship with JW's for obvious reasons. We Christians love and serve our Creator and Redeemer Jesus Christ, whom the JW's demote and reject.

I have preached in numerous denominations (inc. RCC,) in many countries without problem.

I have asked Scott-Would I be able to preach in a Kingdom Hall? For obvious reasons he has not answered.

I am a man of good standing within the Christian community but they would not have me. This ably demonstrates the WTS and its slaves are not part of the Christian community.
---Warwick on 8/9/11

"Two problems with this statement." aka

So what's the second problem?

I've never posted using any name other than my own- scott.

I was baptized and raised as a church-going Baptist. Still have my red-letter edition of the KJ bible that I was given as a prize for getting baptized. My Dad was even the choir director of our church in Southern CA for many, many, years.

I've studied with, and about, Jehovah's WItnesses for many years. Ironically, it was not the doctrinal issues that initially piqued my curiosity about them. It was their unique history of political neutrality and non-violence that was (and is) more than words from a pulpit. Visit a 'Holocaust Museum' someday and you'll see what I mean.
---scott on 8/9/11

Yes. Now I'm one of Jehovah's WItnesses studying with Baptists. ---scott on 8/9/11

scott, there are two problems with this statement. At the time when you made the assertion to be baptist, you were far more versed than any other JW on here, and there is a "scott" whose responses for the last five years have been amazingly like yours in content and style...scott1 every once in a while. these responses were never baptist-like.
---aka on 8/9/11

Spurgeon preached the truth. He was one of the greatest men with much knowledge of the bible. I am a baptist and I would never study with a jehovah witness. Now, I would witness to a jehovah witness with my bible. maybe they would have a bible too and some may think we were studying together. That would not mean I think we are in one accord...that would be far from the truth. I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The bible says they are One.
---shira3877 on 8/9/11

"Scott, why is it Jehovah Witnesses will come to my home...they don't just walk away. THEY RUN AWAY!...they have avoided me ever since." Rob

It could be that there is another side to the story (there are always 2)...hard to tell without having been there.

But there is always the possibility that you have come in contact with the little known 'Opus Dei' of Jehovah's WItnesses, the secret society with an unbridled aversion to (in Latin) 'Obscenus Halitosis'.

But you didn't hear that from me.
---scott on 8/9/11

"btw, didn't you say last year that you were a baptist studying with JWs? aka

Yes. Now I'm one of Jehovah's WItnesses studying with Baptists.
---scott on 8/9/11

//"Spurgeon" ... Really? You quote a Baptist, trinitarian preacher from the turn of the century and that's an objective opinion. Wow.//

Really? You quote a non-Baptist, non-trinitarian preacher from any era and that's an objective opinion? Wow.

I am not a baptist, i am not a preacher, and I am not a trinitarian, therefore, by your logic, i am not biased.

btw, didn't you say last year that you were a baptist studying with JWs?
---aka on 8/8/11

Scott, why not quote Spurgeon, he is highly considered. And what has his being a Baptist from the turn of the century got to do with it?

Over the years you have given quotes from obscure sources. And Spurgeon is the opposite of obscure.

We have quoted some of the nonsense the WTS has said but you ignore it.

How about the quote calling organ transplants "cannibalism?" You said the WTS had never said this. I showed they had and what did we hear from you? Nothing.

The WTS said such transplants were forbidden by God but apparently God changed His mind and now they are permitted. It sure is a problem to claim you speak for God when you don't!
---Warwick on 8/8/11

Scott, you give us some quotes from 1215, and 1302 to prove what the position of the Roman Catholic church is in 2011? Get a grip!

The quote below is from 1967.

''After cleansing those belonging to this house Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as HIS SOLE VISIBLE CHANNEL, THROUGH WHOM ALONE SPIRITUAL INSTRUCTION WAS TO COME....[you] must recognise and accept this appointment of the ''faithful and discreet slave'' and BE SUBMISSIVE TO IT.'' (Watchtower, 10/1/67, p. 590)

Are you saying the RCC still holds the same beliefs as they did 7-8 centuries ago? And are you saying the WTS now repudiates what was said just 44 years ago?
---Warwick on 8/8/11

Scott, why won't you answer the question I asked you on 8/7/11?
---Rob on 8/8/11


Really? You quote a Baptist, trinitarian preacher from the turn of the century and that's an objective opinion. Wow.

How 'bout I quote the Watchtower's opinion about the pagan origins and the centuries of development of the mysterious trinity doctrine.

Fair trade?
---scott on 8/8/11

Scott, the sin of man was imputed to Jesus Christ when He became the sin offering for the whole world (2 Cor. 5:14-21, Heb. 2:9, 1 Jn. 2:2).

Romans 5:12-21 explains man, in reverse receives imputed righteousness from our Lord Jesus Christ.

In this context Spurgeon writes of "imputed righteousness" and says "Jesus Christ is the Lord our righteousness. There are but three words, "JEHOVAH"-for so it is in the original,-"OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.' He is Jehovah. Read that verse, and you will clearly perceive that the Messias of the Jews, Jesus of Nazareth the Saviour of the Gentiles, is certainly Jehovah." Sermon no. 395
---Warwick on 8/8/11

Scott, Jeremiah 33:16 is almost identical to 23:6, which uses he, and 33:126 uses it will be called. Subnote: "Or he."

Put this aside for the moment.

BTW doesn't the WTS claim the Tetragrammaton belongs to God alone?

Psalm 99:1-God Almighty sits between the cherubim. Psalm 80:1-the Shepherd sits there. Who's the Shepherd? "Our Lord Jesus, the great Shepherd ..." Hebrews 13:20!

Why would a city be called Jehovah Our Righteousness? Because The Lord Jesus our Righteousness will sit there between the cherubim. Jeremiah is talking of a coming time,when Jesus reigns as King-Ezekiel 48:35 "the name of the city ...will be "The Lord is there."
---Warwick on 8/8/11

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Scott, 1 Corinthians 2:14 "The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." This is relevant to you and other Witnesses because you reject the personhood of the Holy Spirit.

It is impossible to explain spiritual things to those in the dark.

Stephen had the privilege of seeing Jesus the God/Man in His full Glory, Power and Authority. However you cannot comprehend this, not because you lack intellect, but because you have decided to turn the light of the Holy Spirit off!

As you turned it off, you can turn it on again.
---Warwick on 8/7/11

Scott, why is it Jehovah Witnesses will come to my home with magazines and other literature they say I need to read. But when I try to share scripture with them from an open Bible, they don't just walk away. THEY RUN AWAY!

Also I have Jehovah Witness neihgbors who use to be cordial.

But after I shared with them I am a Christian, and I do study the Bible, they have avoided me ever since.
---Rob on 8/7/11

"I have pointed out..." Warwick

Actually you said:

"At the right hand of God...means the person...has the position of status, and power, equal to the person he is said to be on the right hand of." 8/7/11

This is another example of short-sighted apologetics. Your assertion can't be true because it ignores the fact that the Father is described as preparing a place at Christ's right hand [dekse'os] for the disciples. And they are not equal to Jesus.

"God is invisible spirit..." Warwick

Could you please make up your mind? You just argued that Christ is in heaven with his "flesh and bones"?

Which is it?

Enquiring minds want to know.
---scott on 8/7/11

The Warwickian myopic view of history.

Adjusting views based on ever-changing medicine and science is a common part of all church history.

The majority of churches (if not all) supported the practice of bloodletting for centuries. All have adjusted their views.

Jesuit Giacomo Perico writes that not long ago [organ] transplants presented "serious reservations of moral character". Problemi Di Etica Sanitaria, 1992, Ancora, Milano: 189.

"The organs [liver, spleen and pancreas] of 22 popes are preserved as relics in the church of Saints Anastasio and Vincent near the Trevi Fountain in Rome. The custom of removing the organs was abolished by Pope Pius X in the early 1900s." USA TODAY
---scott on 8/7/11

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David, if your memory is good I pointed out the WTS did indeed peer into its subjects bedrooms forbidding 'improper touching' in sexual relations. Please tell us what is considered 'improper touching'?

That the WTS should intrude into bedrooms is consistent with the controlling nature of this autocracy. After all it forbade life-saving medical proceedures such as blood transfusions, organ transplants and vaccinations. Witnesses were commanded to refrain from these, being told they are "a direct violation of God's law." As I have shown the WTS said transplants are a form of "cannibalism."

However someone changed their mind about vaccinations and transplants, and they are no longer contrary to God's law!
---Warwick on 8/7/11

Scott, your questions are nonsenscial.

As I have pointed out "at the right hand of God" is a term which describes Jesus as seen by Stephen, with all His Godly power, authority and glory.seen.

God is invisible spirit, however we have Jesus, God with us, who is in "very nature God," obviously visible. Phillip asked to see the Father (John 14:9,10)-Jesus replied "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."

Jesus isn't saying He is the Father but God's nature (essence) is displayed in Jesus for all to see. This is why Thomas called Jesus "My Lord and my God"-Greek ho theos-The God!
---Warwick on 8/7/11

Warwick, you outrageously slated a Watchtower article that denounced the immoral perversities found in Satan's World. (w72 12/1 p.735) You've got the article in front of you- you tell us the perversities the WT article denounced.

I've already reprinted the position that article took, ie: 'It is certainly not the responsibility of elders... to search into the private lives of married couples.' The Watchtower article offered advice based on God's word for right-minded people to draw their own conclusions.

Of all the Watchtower article's you chose to criticize- why did you choose this one? It must be because you prefer Satan's immoral perversities. Perversities you describe as ordinary 'love making techniques'. You are a disgrace!
---David8318 on 8/7/11

"At the right hand of God...means the person...has the position of status, and power, equal to the person he is said to be on the right hand of." Warwick

"[Stephen] ...saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand [dekse'os] of God." Acts 7:55 ESV

"[Jesus] said, sit at my right hand [dekse'os] and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father." Matt 20:23 ESV


So the disciples, for whom the Father has or will prepare these 'positions', are or will be equal to God?

Why can't Jesus grant this?

How does the Almighty sit at his own right side?

And where oh where is the HS?
---scott on 8/7/11

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Warwick your 'relevant' scriptures at Psalms 10:16 and Isaiah 43:15 have no relevance your 'visiting Kings' illustration in terms of Jesus' position to God.

'Does there exist a God besides me? No, there is no Rock. I have recognized none'- Isaiah 44:8.

There is no 'equal', there is no equal 'beside' Jehovah God.

Thus, Jesus 'standing' or 'sitting' beside God at God's right-hand is not God's equal, but is 'subject to the Father'- 1 Cor.15:28.

Jesus is not the creator at Col.1:16 or Heb.1:2, but 'all things were created through' Jesus.

Thus, Stephen was not praying to Jesus at Acts 7:59, but talking directly to Jesus. You believe he was praying to Jesus because you believe the polytheist trinity doctrine.
---David8318 on 8/7/11

Warwick- your use of Revelation 19:16 is taken out of context. The rider of the 'white horse' at Rev.19:11-16 (Jesus Christ 'the Word'), is in relation to 'NATIONS', not to Almighty God. Jesus rides the 'white horse' to the extent that 'he may strike the nations... and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron.'

Thus, Jesus being described as 'King of kings and Lord of lords' is in relation to 'the NATIONS' of whom he 'shepherds with a rod of iron'. It is not in relation to Jesus' position with God. Jehovah maintains supremacy as 'King of eternity'- 1 Tim.1:17. Jesus remains 'subject' to Jehovah- 1 Cor.15:28.

Jehovah God stated: 'Does there exist a God besides me? No, there is no Rock. I have recognized none'- Isaiah 44:8.
---David8318 on 8/7/11

Warwick, the two Kings in your illustration- is the visiting King also the Host King? Or is the Host King also the visiting King, co-equal in every respect? Of course not. Your reasoning is flawed and again shows your polytheist belief. A visiting King is not also the host King.

Likewise, Jesus Christ is not also the God he 'stands' or 'sits' at the right hand of. In very much the same way a visiting King is not also the host King.

Believing Stephen to be praying to Jesus, you thus by definition believe Jesus is God, who stands at the 'right-hand of God'. You therefore believe there are 2 God's at Acts 7:55-59. This is polytheism.

Stephen didn't see an abstract of 'power, might or honour'. Stephen spoke directly to Jesus.
---David8318 on 8/7/11

"Only a desperate person would imagine Jerusalem, an inanimate object, could be Jehovah our Righteousness."Warwick

A desperate person named Jeremiah, inspired by, and prophet of the Almighty God Jehovah:

"In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem, shall dwell safely, and this is the name whereby she shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness." Jeremiah 33:16 ASV
---scott on 8/6/11

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David, remember me. I am the one you falsely and in a cowardly manner called a sexual deviate. That is a serious charge and not one I take lightly, even from someone of base repute as yourself.

I am surprized the moderators of this site, who have been very critical of even blunt writing, have not taken you to task.

I have asked you to state the details of what makes me a deviate. However you lack the courage or probity to do so.
---Warwick on 8/7/11

David, "at the right hand of God" doesn't denote physical position. It means the person referred to has the position of status, and power, equal to the person he is said to be on the right hand of.

In Biblical times kings signified visiting kings were equal (if so) by seating them at their right hand.

Relevantly Psalm 10:16 reads "The Lord is King for ever and ever..." Isaiah 43:15 "I am the Lord, your Holy One, Israel's Creator, your King. However Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2-Jesus is Creator.

Revelation 19:16 says "KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.' How can He therefore be inferior to God who is King?

He, alone, is the one whom Stephen saw standing in Glory, in heaven.
---Warwick on 8/7/11

David claims: Jehozadak, whose name means 'Jehovah Declared Righteous' or 'Jehovah Is Righteous,'''

There is a HUGE difference between meaning and what is actually written. The verse in Jeremiah 23 contains the Tetragrammaton i.e. YOD-HEY-VAV-HEY. Your above verse doesn't contain it, doesn't actually read 'Jehovah declared righteous' but rather Jeho or Yeho i.e. only 2 letters of the Tetragrammaton.

JWs believe only God Almighty has the name containing the Tetragrammaton yet here is a creature(according to Watchtower theology) called Jesus who is called by the Tetragrammaton i.e. YOD-HEY-VAV-HEY.

You can't have it both ways: either God is the only being whose name is the Tetragrammaton or he isn't.
---Marc on 8/6/11

Scott only a desperate person would imagine Jerusalem, an inanimate object, could be Jehovah our Righteousness.

Conversely Jesus is given many names and titles because of what He would accomplish, and has accomplished: Creator, Redeemer, Saviour, Messiah, and Jehovah our Righteousness. He is Jehovah and author of our righteousness. He became this by His obedience, sufferings and death. The fruit of His work was bestowed upon us, as Righteousness. Indeed He is Jehovah our Righteousness.

This is confirmed in Isaiah 45, a Chapter about Jesus the Savious, before whom "every knee will bow" vs. 23 (confirmed by Romans 14:11) "In the Lord alone are righteousness and Strength." vs 24.
---Warwick on 8/6/11

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Warwick, you continue to preach polytheism. God does not have a 'position' alongside anybody (as you suggest). Why would God need to be 'sitting at the right-hand of God' for Him to be given the 'position' of honour, power and might. God IS these qualities anyway.

God is not required to 'stand at the right-hand' of anybody to be given the qualities of honour, power and might as you believe. Thus, I do not believe Stephen was praying to Jesus, otherwise you are forced to believe Jesus is God and thus, you have 2 Gods at Act 7:55-59. This is polytheism.

At John 10:33. the Jews began to stone Jesus because in their view Jesus was making himself 'a god'. Confirmed by the fact that Jesus quoted Psalms 82:6 in his defence- Jo.10:34.
---David8318 on 8/6/11

David was Jehozadak, also called Creator, Redeemer, Saviour, God with us, the Alpha and the Omega, the Son of God, the Lamb of God,and the Almighty? No need to answer!

The coming Christ is given the name by which he will be called 'Jehovah Our Righteousness' (Jeremiah 23:6) uniquely, as He alone is the one who is coming to save His people.

In this context no man or angel fits the bill. Not even Abraham or Moses.
---Warwick on 8/6/11

"The Father is called "God"...The Son is called "God"...The Holy Spirit is called "God". Warwick

"For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live, and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live." 1 Cor 8:5, 6, NIV
---scott on 8/6/11

A christian is one who is born of the Spirit, washed in the Blood of the Lamb, cleansed from sin and an heir to the throne.
---shira3877 on 8/6/11

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"Point of logic." Marc

Again the name, according to Jeremiah 23:6 is not "Jehovah" but a complete sentence "Jehovah is our righteousness." ESV, NLT, NASB, RSV, HCSB, CEB*

You've adopted the threadbare Warwickian form of apologetics wherein you assign significance to titles in one instance but then simply ignore other references that are exactly the same.

For your point to be 'logical' you have to explain why this title identifies Jesus as the Almighty but the same exact Hebrew language carries no significance when given to Jerusalem. Real logic demands some sort of explanation.

CEB Footnote "Or of Our Righteousness, possibly a play on the name Zedekiah."
---scott on 8/6/11

church defined by Holy Scripture are the called out ones John 6:44,65 called out from the world its god, governments, traditions of babylon not a building or a place, as today's false christianity teaches

Christians are followers of EVERY Word of Christ Jesus Luke 4:4 and worship in Truth and Spirit 2Tim 1:7, John 4:23,24 & 14:17

those who obey seeking to overcome ...although many believe it is a label of I believe in Christ so I am a "christian" ...True Christians understand the responsibilities of repentance baptism and True conversion having faith of the promises and rewards to come at the resurrection of all to eternal life ruling with Christ in the millennium when Gods Kingdom is restored on earth
---Rhonda on 8/6/11

A Christian is a disciple of Jesus Christ. He believes that he is sinner before God, and Jesus Christ was the unblemished lamb that the Father has sent forth into this world to die for His people's sin - the perfect atonement demanded by the Father.

The Christian also believes that God is the sole decider through His grace and mercy whom He will save - this was decided before the foundations of the world in His covenant of grace through Jesus Christ.

By the grace of God through faith which God freely gives only to those whom He will call from is covenant of grace, the sinner will repent to the Father and put his trust in Jesus 100% for the salvation of his soul.

The sinner by the love of God is now called a Christian.
---christan on 8/6/11

Marc, for sure Scott has just knocked your fallacious argument into the long grass.

It is striking that the same prophet- Jeremiah, would also use the same title, 'Jehovah Is Our Righteousness' to both His Messiah and His Capital- Jerusalem. Neither the Messiah nor Jerusalem would 'alone' be called Jehovah- only God (Ps.83:18). These are titled 'Jehovah Is Our Righteousness' for a reason.

Jehozadak, whose name means 'Jehovah Declared Righteous' or 'Jehovah Is Righteous,' was not Jehovah himself.

The last reigning king of Jerusalem was Zedekiah, and that name means 'The Righteousness of Jah.' The king who was to be called 'Jehovah Is Our Righteousness,' namely, Jesus Christ, contrasts sharply with King Zedekiah.
---David8318 on 8/6/11

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David, you cannot evade the fact that at the point of death Stephen prayed to Jesus his God and Saviour (2 Peter 1:1) "The LORD Our Righteousness" (Jeremiah 23:6) asking "Lord Jesus receive my spirit.' You are correct prayers are directed to God, just as Stephen did.

Stephen describes Jesus as "standing at the right hand of God." This is a term meaning Jesus is in the position of honour, of power and might, the position of God. Stephen's hearers knew what he meant and stoned him for blasphemy. This aligns with John 10:30 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
---Warwick on 8/6/11

Scott, you attempt word-play!

The Father is called "God"- 1 Peter 1:2, Philippians 2:11.
The Son is called "God"-John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Titus 2:13.
The Holy Spirit is called "God'-Acts 5:3,4, 1 Corinthians 3:16,17.

The Father is called Almighty- Genesis 17:1
The Son is called Almighty-Revelation 1:8, 22:12,13 and 20.
The Holy Spirit is called Almighty-Zechariah 4:6.

The Father is omnipresent-Jeremiah 23:24, 1 Kings 8:27.
The Son is omnipresent-Matthew 28:20, 18:20, John 1:48.
The Holy Spirit is omnipresent-Psalm 139:7
---Warwick on 8/6/11

Thus, an examination of Acts 7:55-59 and Hebrews 1:1-8 provide confirmation that those sucked into and indoctrinated with the Hellenic trinity doctrine become polytheists.

The truth of course is as the scriptures state. Jesus is the 'Son' who sits 'at the right-hand' of God- Acts 7:55 and Heb.1:3.

Hebrews 1:8 does not teach Jesus is given God's throne to sit on. This contradicts what has already been stated in verse 3. Rather, God's 'throne' becomes the source and support of Christ's rulership.

This correct understanding becomes clear when Psalms 45:6 (which Heb.1:8 quotes) is examined. The Psalmist didn't believe the human king he wrote about was Jehovah. Thus the 'Son' at Heb.1:8 is not also Jehovah God.
---David8318 on 8/6/11

Yes, I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
---scott on 8/5/11

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Being evasive as usual I see.

The quote that you used was not "He alone is Jehovah." but ''whose NAME ALONE is Jehovah,''.

Jeremiah 23 says that the name by which Jesus ''will be called is JEHOVAH our righteousness''.

How can you have 2 persons with the name JEHOVAH when the Scripture you put up unambiguously says there is ONLY one named JEHOVAH.

I don't have to explain the altar or the city verses but it's you who must explain how one scripture says there is ONLY ONE being, God, with the name JEHOVAH while another says that the Messiah ALSO has the name JEHOVAH.

Scott, you misdirect people's attention by not directly addressing the point of logic. That's called dishonesty.
---Marc on 8/5/11

Scott, I have a question to ask you.

By chance, are you a Jehovah Witness or a Mormon?
---Rob on 8/5/11

"Sort that out." Marc

At Jeremiah 33:16 the exact same title "Jehovah is our righteousness" is applied to Jerusalem and anti-typically to the church.

Is Jerusalem or the church God?

Additionally, the use of the name "Jehovah Will Provide" (Genesis 22:14) is applied to a place, "Jehovah is Peace" to an alter (Jg 6:22-24), etc.

The Messiah would not be called "Jehovah," but "Jehovah is our righteousness." This is a statement about Jehovah. Jesus willingly and lovingly came to earth for mankind's benefit, but it was the father's will for him to do so.

He has employed his name as titles for various purposes, but "He alone is Jehovah."
---scott on 8/5/11

Scott wrote: "That men may know that you, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high, over all the earth." PS 83:18, KJV

If only God has the name Jehovah why does the Messiah also have the name Jehovah. The prophet Jeremiah says that his name will be JEHOVAH Tsidkenu (23:6)

So Scot, are there 1 or 2 beings whose name is Jehovah? Psalm 83 says there is only one being who is named Jehovah yet Jeremiah says that the Messiah also has that name. The two verses seem at odds with each other. How does a JW sort that one out: 1 or 2?
---Marc on 8/5/11

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So trinitarians (ie. Warwick) want us to believe Stephen 'prayed' to Jesus at Acts 7:59. Let's be reminded of the context of Acts 7:59.

Acts 7:55 states, 'But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.' (NIV)

Are prayers to be directed only to God? Of course, who else would you pray to? (Ps 65:2, 66:19)

Thus at Acts 7:55-59, trinitarians have at least 2 'Gods' in these verses. This is Polytheism!

Context Warwick, context. But of course, you are a polytheist as I have identified before in your understanding of Heb.1:1-3, where again you believe God is 'standing at God's right hand'.
---David8318 on 8/5/11

As an individual, what is your definition of a Christian, and what is your definition of the Church?
---Rob on 8/1/11
BIBLE DEFINITION: Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 12:17 the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ
---francis on 8/5/11

"The Son is Jehovah, the Holy Spirit is Jehovah..." Warwick

No scripture says this.

Rather, Jesus "...Shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest." Luke 1:32, KJV, ("Most High"- NIV)

But who is the "Highest"?

"That men may know that you, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high, over all the earth." PS 83:18, KJV
---scott on 8/5/11

Warwick, thank you for your answer to Steven. He speaks of Christians who love the Lord and Christians who do not. I didn't know there was two kinds. Either a person is a Christian with love for the Lord, or he is not a Christian. "If Christians today" do not know how to love the Lord, we have a problem alright. They are not who they say they are, and everyone is lost. The love for the Lord is alive an well now. And always will be. Some imposters call themselves Christian but don't have a love for the Lord, so are not Christian. The lost have no love for the Lord since the curse, even to today. The tares gather with believers, but are not believers, so not Christians.
---Mark_V. on 8/5/11

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Steveng, while I (part) agree with you I have to say that the only thing which makes us Christian is that we accept we are sinners, and ask to be forgiven by God's grace, via the finished work of Jesus, upon the cross. The rest is only good works which follow.
---Warwick on 8/4/11

Why do chritians today make things so complicated?

A true christian is a person that applies genuine love to God and others. Simple and uncomplicated, but very difficult to do because today's christians don't know HOW to love. Sure they know the meaning of it, but rarely genuinely practice it. And it is this genuine love that will evaporate from this world and bring in the Antichrist.
---Steveng on 8/4/11

Scott, we worship one God (Jehovah), who is spirit, not flesh. The Father is Jehovah, the Son is Jehovah, the Holy Spirit is Jehovah. This is the Godhead, the Trinity. One God in three persons.

The Father is called "God"- 1 Peter 1:2, Philippians 2:11.
The Son is called "God"-John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Titus 2:13.

The Holy Spirit is called "God'-Acts 5:3,4, 1 Corinthiand 3:16,17.

The word 'Trinity' is not in the Bible but neither is 'Theocracy' but the principle of both words is well founded in Scripture.
---Warwick on 8/4/11

"Are you suggesting that the Son IS the Father? No. You already know that." Warwick

Have you not stated that 'Jesus IS Jehovah'?

Who is the 'Father' that Jesus said to pray to in the Lord's prayer? Matthew 6:9-13
---scott on 8/4/11

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A Christian is a sinner who knows that they are sinful and need Jesus to wash sin away. The Church (big C) is the body of Christians throughout the world. The church (little c) is a collection of christians who work together to evangelize, teach, learn, serve, encourage one another.
---Scott1 on 8/3/11

Scott, to answer your question: "Are you suggesting that the Son IS the Father?"

No! And you already know that.
---Warwick on 8/3/11

Scott, let me also point out what Scripture says about the Holy Spirit's works.

Assuring us- Ephesians 1:14
Comforting us-John 14:16
Convicting- John 16:8
Teaching-John 14:26
Reminding-John 14:26
Testifying of Christ-John 15:26
Guiding-John 16:13, Romans 8:14
Revealing-John 16:14,Luke 2:26
Glorifying Christ-John 16:14
Supplying Power-Acts 1:8
Speaking through us-Acts 4: 31
Speaking to us-John 16:13
Bearing witness in us-Romans 8:16
Helping- Romans 8:26
Interceding- Romans 8:26
Giving Spiritual gifts-1 Corinthians 12:4-11
Renewal-Titus 3:5
Confirming our salvation-Ephesians 1:13
Producing Fruit in us-Galatians 5:22

Personal, not an impersonal force.
---Warwick on 8/3/11

Before responding I would like to be clear on your position.

Are you suggesting that the Son IS the Father?
---scott on 8/2/11

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Scott, Stephen did pray to Jesus, don't ignore this.

That Jesus said to pray to the Father is consistent with Him "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped," Philippians 2:6. In humility He would not command people pray to Him but they did.

Jesus attests to the lack of separation in the God-head "Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father...Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip,...Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father"-Jesus the exact representation of God's being!

We cannot see God who is spirit but Stephen saw Jesus standing at Gods right hand-the position of authority and divine omnipotence, revealed in all His divinity, in heaven.
---Warwick on 8/2/11

Scott, you say "The Gk word for "prayed" at Acts 7:59 is 'epikaleo', meaning: To call appeal to an authority.... Correct.

This same word occurs in Romans 10:13 "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

At the point of death Stephen, a man "Full of God's grace and power" (Acts 6:8) calls out "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." And you attempt to equate this with Paul appealing to Caesar, a Roman legal device!

Context Scott, context!

Would Stephen call out "Caesar receive my spirit"

No, but Stephen calls out to his "God and Saviour" (2 Peter 1:1) Jesus Christ.

You are truly desperate!
---Warwick on 8/2/11

a christian follows the apostle Paul as he followed Christ(1 Cor. 11:1)
The only church is the body of Christ revealed to Paul by the risen Christ
---michael_e on 8/2/11

//(Act 7:59) And they stoned Stephen (who was), calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.---
Donna66 on 8/1/11///--
Love this!

Knowing the Name and purpose of the Name
[Y'shua-Y'hovah Saviour/Salvation of Y'hovah]
To this reason Stephen [called] to the [Father] in the Name of [Y'shua]
Ph 2:6-8
Who being God did not deem His glory a thing not to be relinquished[vs6]

Stephen giving up the spirit to Y'hovah [calling out] to Him as Savior and acknowledges the [entering to] His rest ceasing from his works.
Heb4 [All]
10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Defacto-Word of God in Flesh
One God:
Different Dimension.
---char on 8/2/11

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//God's right side.
---scott on 8/2/11//

I agree believers are instructed to pray to [Father] asking in the Name of [Y'shua]. A confessed agreement between Heaven and earth [covenant]. [Y'shua] confessed declares [God is Savior].
We are not instructed to pray to the Word of God But to [declare His Word] that saves us--To HIM

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Right Hand-Idom for the power of His strength.[His Word for mankind]

Matt 6:9-15
Different dimension
One God.
---char on 8/2/11

"A Christian prays to Jesus." Act 7:59 Donna66 (1)

Jesus taught his disciples how to pray at Matthew 6:9

"After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name."

Throughout God's word the Father, Jehovah is referred to as the "Hearer of Prayer", etc. Psalm 65:2

Stephen's expression (and John's at Rev 22:16, 20) can be viewed in a couple of different ways.

1. The Gk word for "prayed" at Acts 7:59 according to Vines Expository Dictionary is 'epikaleo'. It means: To call appeal to an authority. Paul used this same word when he declared: I appeal to Caesar! (Acts 25:11)

---scott on 8/2/11

"A Christian prays to Jesus." Act 7:59 Donna66 (2)

2. Stephen and John each saw Jesus in vision and spoke to him directly. But keep in mind that simply speaking, even to God, does not in itself constitute a prayer. Adam and Eve spoke to God, offering excuses for their great sin in Eden. Their talking to him in that way was not a prayer. (Genesis 3:8-19)

So it seems inappropriate to cite Stephen's or John's talking to Jesus as evidence that we actually should pray to him.

"In everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving let your petitions be made known to God." Php 4:6

And of course where did Stephen see Jesus when he spoke to him? At God's right side.
---scott on 8/2/11

A Christian is one who follows and worships his God and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Jesus the God/man was with them:

John 14:8,9 Phillip asked "Show us the Father..." Jesus answered "Don't you know me, Philip...?"

Mark 2:5-7 Jesus says "your sins are forgiven." They ask "Who can forgive sins but God alone." No one!

Matthew 11:28 "Come to me,....., and I will give you rest.

I am:

From Above John 8:23
The Eternal One John 8:58
The Light of the World John 9:5
The Son of God John 10:36
The Lord and Master John 13:13
The True Vine John 15:1
The Alpha and Omega Revelation 1:8

Can any man or angel claim these things?
---Warwick on 8/1/11

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\\others are there to destroy the body of Christ. You will know them by their fruits. What they speak is not Scriptural Truth.\\
---Mark_V. on 8/1/

Mark V,
I think you are the first person I've seen on CN to accurately identify the "fruit" that Jesus warned about.

Bless you
---James_L on 8/1/11

Scott-- As the name implies, a Christian is one whose life is centered on Jesus.
Not only is Jesus his Savior, but:
A Christian prays to Jesus, like Stephen (Act 7:59) And they stoned Stephen (who was), calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
A Christian worships Jesus (Matthew 28:9)
And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him
A Christian calls Jesus God.
(Jhn 20:27-28) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands, and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
---Donna66 on 8/1/11


1. ''Jehovah's using only one organisation today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we MUST identify that organisation and serve God as part of it.'' (The Watchtower, 2/15/83, p. 12)
2. ''Those who are convinced The Watchtower's publishing the opinion or expression of a man should not waste time in looking at it at all. Those who believe God uses The Watchtower as a means of communicating to his people, or of calling to his prophecies, should study the Watchtower.'' (The Watchtower, 1/1/ 42, p. 5)

JWs must believe salvation comes only through the WT and that God only speaks through that organisation. Rather than ALL wanting to be saved, God only saves JWs.
---Marc on 8/1/11

A Christian is a person born of the Spirit baptized into One body with all others born of the Spirit. This body is the body of Christ, the future bride of Christ. It is called the Spiritual Church of Christ.
In the visible world we have Churches where believers gather together with other believers to worship and learn about God and praise the Lord. In this visible Church there is unbelievers (tares) who gather with believers (wheat) who have not made a committment to Christ in faith. Some are there in the process of making a committment, others are there to destroy the body of Christ. You will know them by their fruits. What they speak is not Scriptural Truth.
---Mark_V. on 8/1/11

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---Reba on 8/1/11


I am in complete agreement with you...
Very well stated.

---char on 8/1/11

The church as a building is the place of worship. Where believer's of the King of King's & Lord of Lord's study His word & honour Him with obedience to fail not to assemble themselves together to worship. The spiritual church as a body is the large unification of the family of God. Although we do not completely agree on the details, we are joined by the fact that Christ is our righteousness. & that is my definition of a Christian- A child of God, Striving to live a life pleasing to God,hoping to draw others to Him & having the assurance that Christ is our covering, salvation our righteousness.
---Reba on 8/1/11

A chrisitan is a person following the word of God & professing Jesus (Gods son) died for our sins & raised from the dead and that he is the way,truth & life .
A church,are actually the fellowship of Gods people together. A denomination doesn't make a church nor a building ,but the people.
---Candice on 8/1/11

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