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Baptised By A NonChristian

I have a friend. She was baptized in our Church by son of a preacher. 2 years later this man told her that in that time he was not a Christian (by his lifestyle). Should this young lady be baptized again? In confirmation of your words I need verses from the Bible.

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Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Who is Baptizing?
Matt. 3:11
John baptizes with water. Jesus baptizes with the HS and fire. One thing, water is never doing the baptism. John is the agent who performs the baptism with water. The Holy Spirit is not doing the baptism. Jesus is the agent who performs the baptism with the Spirit.

In Pauls baptism of 1 Cor 12:13 the Spirit is baptizing us into the body (of Christ). Romans 6:3 explains this as well.

This baptism is into Christ. It can't be John's baptism into water. It can't be the baptism performed by Jesus with the Spirit. It's obviously the baptism described by Paul in 1 Cor 12 which is performed by the Spirit into Christ.
---michael_e on 8/18/11

I see nothing in the N.T. that REQUIRES a Christian to baptize a penitent believer in order for the penitent believer to be saved. As long as the believer understands what baptism for the remission of sins is, what's the problem?
---Brian on 8/18/11


We are all children of God. But the inheritance goes back to Abraham.

Hebrews 11:17 Isaac was Abraham's only son, but we know that Abraham had Ishmael first. In Genesis 25, he had other children. But verse 5 says

"Now Abraham gave all he had to Isaac."

Not all the children of Abraham were heirs.

Matt 10, Jesus was talking directly to His apostles. BUT, verses 25-31 the same promise as Rom 8:35-39 through persecution, nothing will separate us from the love of God

v32 Whoever confesses Me before men...same as Rom 10:9-10
v33 Whoever denies Me... same as 2Tim 2:12

Entire chapters with same warnings and promises.
---James_L on 8/18/11

In reading Matthew 10 I see that He isn't referring to us as the church, but to the disciples and their upcoming trials after His death. The survival of trials for them was the mark of an apostle.(2Corinthians 12)

In Romans 8:17, it does say, "if so be that we suffer with Him we shall be glorified with Him".

Of course, but before that it say, "and if children..." meaning we are already His childer & since we are His children then we are also His heirs and own all that He and Jesus own according to Romans 8:14-17.
---Rickey on 8/18/11

Rickey part 2,

Romans chapters 8-11, one thought.

8:29 those He FOREKNEW He 'predestined' to be conformed to the image of His Son

9:23 He prepared us beforehand (predestined) - for GLORY

11:2 God has not rejected His people whom He FOREKNEW

Jesus said "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt 10:22)

2Tim 2:12 If we endure, we will reign with Him.

Rom 8:17 co-heirs IF we suffer

Very hard to put into only a few words. Compare Matthew 10, Romans 10, 2Tim 2, Heb 2, 1Pet 1:7, 2Pet 1:17, Rom 2:7-10

Also, did not mean to offend you. This is an issue very close to my heart. If I offended you, I apologize.
---James_L on 8/17/11

you have defined "heir" wrong. Jesus is God's heir. Do you think God will die?

The inheritance is not present. Hebrews 2:8 "but now we do not yet see all things subjected to him"

Romans 10
v 10 be saved
v 13 call be saved
v 12 call abound in riches

If you compare the wording in Rom 10, you will see that "salvation" is riches. Future riches.

Jesus said "he who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt 10:22

Heb 2:9-10 GLORY and HONOR for Christ because He suffered.

2Tim 2:21 IF we cleanse ourselves from wickedness, we will be vessels of HONOR

Rom 9:23 riches of His GLORY upon vessels of HONOR
---James_L on 8/17/11

An heir is a person legally succeeding to all property of a deceased person. Through Jesus' death we became heirs of God. (1Peter 2:24, 2Corinthians 5:21, 1Peter 3:18, John 3:16)
So, technically, all believers have a right to all that the bible promises.

I can agree that the inheritance is conditional, but can say that it's also unconditional.

It's unconditional in that we are declared righteous & made heir of all things the day we make Jesus' Lord. Now, in order to lay hold of the inheritance there are conditions. Conditions as far as sin, faith, and knowledge.
Sin blocks blessings.
W/O faith we can't lay hold.
Lack of knowledge keeps folks from their inheritance too.
---Rickey on 8/16/11

James salvation is 3-fold. Past, present, & future. The Godhead is 3-fold. The temple was 3-fold.

Salvation is three fold in many ways.
1) Past, Present, & future like I stated yesterday.
2) Spirit, soul, and body

In your post you listed past, present, & future just like I did. The 3-listings you have for past are all one and so are your future listings.

What you consider a sinner's prayer is probably contrary to what I'm talking about. I'm simply stating that in order for a person to obtain salvation they must make Jesus Lord & in order to do so they must confess Him as Lord. If you can show me that I am scripturally wrong them by all means do so.
---Rickey on 8/16/11

We don't have to suffer with Christ in order to be or become and heir. Romans 8:17 read completely shows that. It's just continuing from the prior verses showing that we, the moment we make Jesus Lord, are children of God, heirs of God, & joint-heirs with Christ NOW...not in the future. It shows that all that belongs to God NOW belongs to me. All that Christ possesses is mine NOW...not in the future.

If it's future tense then healing, deliverance, prosperity, ability to approach God w/ boldness, peace, etc. aren't obtainable now.

2nd Corinthians 5:21 & verses that state who we are, what we are, & what we have because we are NOW in Christ show that we are HEIRS NOW.
---Rickey on 8/16/11

In Galatians 5:19-21, Paul show "blessing blockers". "Shall not inherit" simply shows that a person following sin will not be able to lay hold of God's promises. The promises are still there, but sin will keep a person away from them.
Like the Prodigal son, he regardless of his sin/rebellion, was still an heir w/ a right to all things, but him choosing to go his way kept him from it. When he came to his senses he realized that the inheritance was still his and returned to his father.

On another note, please be careful in your responses. A thing may worded w/o intending to offended, but can be read another way bro. :-) And if I state a thing and it offends you just let me know.
---Rickey on 8/16/11

\\In Hebrews 1:14...we've already obtained salvation..\\
---Rickey on 8/15/11

Not even close, Rickey.

Romans 8:17
...and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, IF indeed we suffer with Him...

You don't understand the Old Testament concept of and inheritance, and apparently don't even know what the word means in English.

Galatians 5:21...I forewarn YOU (believers), that those who practice such things will not INHERIT the Kingdom of God.

our eternal security is unconditional

our inheritance is conditional.

Why do you think there has been a 400 year debate between Calvinists and Arminians? They BOTH have the two mixed together.

You do too
---James_L on 8/15/11


Actually, salvation isn't past, present, future, for there are not only three aspects of salvation.

It is:
past - justification (Rom 3-4)

past - clean conscience (Rom 6, 1Pet 3:21)

past - regeneration (2Cor 5:17)

present - sanctification (Rom 6-7)

future - resurrection (Romm 5)

future - inheritance (Rom 8-11)

future - rewards (James 2:12-26)

All of these aspects are called "salvation" in the NT. When you narrow the scope of salvation, you will have a contradictory mess.

Romans 10:9-10 are not "plain as day" to you, for you have taken them out of context. If you think they support a sinner's prayer, then would you read verse 20?
---James_L on 8/15/11

Actually God does hear sinners. If He didn't then Cornelius and his family wouldn't have gotten saved.

In Hebrews 1:14 when it says "heirs of" it is just saying that we've already obtained salvation...not that we are waiting to receieve it.

Salvation is 3-fold: past, present, & future.

Past-the new birth(John 3:3-7, Romans 10:9)
Present-(Philippians 2:12)
Future-(1Thess. 4:17)
---Rickey on 8/15/11

Jame you said..."So if God does not hear sinners, then why teach a sinner to pray to God for 'salvation'?"

Good did you get saved then? Romans 10:9-10 are plain as day.

Paul got saved via confessing Jesus as Lord.(Acts 9:5-6)

God doesn't hear sinners' requests of course, but He does hear them confess Jesus as Lord.
---Rickey on 8/15/11

As far as inheriting salvation, only those who have receive the 1st part of salvation have a right to the rest of salvation which "deliver, health, prosperity, etc." :-)

I'm glad that you brought up that there is alot more to salvation...many believers don't know that and are cut off due to lack & rejection of knowledge. (Hosea 4:6)

You brought some good point bro!
---Rickey on 8/15/11

BUT BASICALY NOTHING AT ITSELF saves, sinners prayer, baptism, eucharist, and so forth is MERE FORMALISM without FAITH and REPENTANCE
---andy3996 on 8/14/11

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EZEKIEL 11:19 and I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you, and I will take a way the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh.

{ It's not the act of of a man pouring water over you that get you save,It's the act of Gods work, Nothing man can do can contribute to his salvation.

MATTHEW 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance.But he that cometh after me is mighter than I. whose shoes Iam not worthy to bear: HE SHALL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST,and with fire.

( The Bible tells about Two Baptisms - One water , other with the Holy Ghost, Bible says there just one Baptism. And that's the Holy Spirit working in that person that truly saves )
---RICHARDC on 8/14/11

Rickey, my point with Matt 10:22 and 1Pet 3:21 is that they both use the word "saved", just like Romans 10:9-10

Why do you choose one passage and not the other ones? Believe it or not, praying is a work. Also,

Do you know that the bible says "God does not hear sinners" ? John 9:31

So if God does not hear sinners, then why teach a sinner to pray to God for 'salvation'?

God would not hear the prayer anyway, and the person would still be lost.

You have a very common problem with the word "saved" in the NT. You think its only meaning is "get out of hell" but it's much broader than that
---James_L on 8/13/11

\\Salvation isn't an inheritance. No one inherits salvation.\\
---Rickey on 8/12/11

Really? Hebrews 1:14

" render service for the sake of those who will Inherit Salvation"

Yes, Rickey. Inherit Salvation

I agree that an inheritance is a birthright. Jesus is the only Heir.

Romans 8:17 says we are co-heirs with Christ IF we suffer with Him. br>
Romans 8 is all about suffering. Verse 29 "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son..."

Through suffering. How do I know this? Verse 35 "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?"
---James_L on 8/13/11

Mark 16:16
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Jesus spoke about unbelievers, and about baptized believers, but here he did not mention what happens to unbaptized believers. But we have one example of such - the thief on the cross, who was not baptized. Baptism is a commandment to believers (so everyone should do it if possible), but is not the condition of salvation.
---StrongAxe on 8/12/11

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James I am so glad that you brought up that scripture, 1Peter 3:21, bro. :-)
The verse, read properly, doesn't refer to baptism making a person righteous or saved. If it did then if a person prayed the "sinner's prayer" making Jesus Lord of their life & died w/o being water baptised then they are going to hell. Our salvation doesn't depend on our works or water baptism. (1Corinthians 1:17, Eph. 2:8-9, 2Corinthians 5:21)

Matthew 10:22 isn't talking to the church, but to the Apostles. Us enduring until the end isn't depending on us anyway. We are already saved and declared righteous the very moment we make Jesus our Lord and Savior. (Romans 10:9-10)
---Rickey on 8/12/11

Salvation isn't an inheritance. An inheritance is a birthright for the child/heir of the person giving it. No one inherits salvation. Salvation, through Christ, cannot be passed down from one to another. We each obtain our own via Christ. (2nd Corinthians 5:21, 1Peter 2:24)

Every person is born in need of the Savior. (Romans 5:19, John 3:3-7)

No sinner inherits salvation because a sinner isn't a child of God. In order to become a child of God one must be born-again from above.(John 3:3, 1Peter 1:23, Rom. 10:9)
---Rickey on 8/12/11


Why not use 1Peter 3:21 "baptism now saves you"

Why not use Matthew 10:22 "but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved"

Romans 10:10 says two things:

1) with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness

2) with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The first part of the verse says that we are "made righteous" when we believe the gospel. No confession needed to be righteous (what you think of as saved)

Then, AFTER we are made righteous, confession results in "salvation"

This "salvation" is inheritance (Rom 8:17).
---James_L on 8/11/11

actually my question is, this "son of a pastor, was he an ordained minister, or was the body of elders (at least the pastor or one elder) present?
---andy3996 on 8/10/11

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Robyn, Cluny:

Ephesians 4:4-6
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling,
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

These are all things whose existence is continuous, not one-time things. Why would baptism be the only thing in this list which is different from all the others? It sounds like it is referring to the institution of baptism (i.e. there is only one kind), not the event of baptism (i.e. we do it once and but must never do it again). We don't believe once-but-never-again either.
---StrongAxe on 8/10/11


You said: You my only be Baptized once in your life by sprinkling, pouring or immersion, as an infant, youth or adult. If you reject infant baptism or baptized more than once you are a heretic and shall suffer the fate of all heretics.

Can you point out where in the Bible it says this?
---StrongAxe on 8/10/11

\\I never read any where in the bible how many times to be baptized. \\

I have. The verse is quoted below.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/10/11

James read the context in Romans 10. That verse is used all of the time and is true in that it shows the principle of getting "saved".
It shows that a person must do 2-things. 1)believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and 2)confess Him as Lord.

Paul did it on his way to kill christians. He confessed Jesus as Lord & believed in his heart that Jesus lives.

One thing that people shouldn't tell people is that they have to confess all of their sins in order to get saved. It's impossible! 1John 1:9 isn't for sinners...they don't have a right to do so because they aren't righteous.(2Corinthians 5:21)
---Rickey on 8/10/11

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//Baptism, but not water.

Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,...1Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,..// michael_e

2Ti 2:15

immerse yourself in God's Word. baptism is of God and not of any man.
---aka on 8/10/11

You can be baptized as many times as you like. I never read any where in the bible how many times to be baptized. If it makes you feel better about your walk with the Lord, go ahead and do it! And these people who are doing these type of things to God's people,will pay for this one day.This man should never have been baptizing anyone! He knew he had backslid. Why not, step aside and let someone else baptize, at that time? This is why so many christians are disillusioned and scattered. A lot of them are afraid for people to even pray for them now. This is so sad.
---Robyn on 8/9/11

Baptism, but not water.

Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
1Cor. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,..

Some sprinkle, some pour. Some immerse twice forward, once backward. Some baptize in the name of the Father, Son and HS, others in Jesus' name only. Some baptize infants, others baptize adults only. Some say you're not saved unless water baptized, others say baptism is for testimony only.

none of these positions can agree with one another but all disagree with those who refuse water baptism today.

baptism is for today, just not water baptism. water baptism is not necessary for the Church, the body of Christ Water baptism was for the nation of Israel in "time past."
---michael_e on 8/9/11

\\Romans 10:9-10 shows that confessing/professing Jesus as your Lord is what one does in order to get saved.\\

Romans 10:9-10 doesn't support that warped gospel you promote. Those verses are speaking of confessing Christ as Lord in the midst of persecution - enduring to the end (Matt 10). Read starting in Romans 8 and you will find the context of this "salvation" along with "election".

\\did she also pray & invite Jesus into her life?(Romans 10:9-10)\\

Just how do you get "invite Jesus into her life" from Romans 10:9-10?

It Says CONFESS. Jesus said "Confess Me Before Men".

You have a blatantly false gospel
---James_L on 8/9/11

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Cluny, John 4:1-4, acts 2:41, 8:21, 8:38, 22:16. all these examples had to be done "publically, and not privately.
unless of course you meant seperated from the unbeliever.
---andy3996 on 8/9/11

No she shouldn't get baptized again. Reason being, our salvation doesn't depend on any person other than Jesus. Romans 10:9-10 shows that confessing/professing Jesus as your Lord is what one does in order to get saved.

Regardless of another Christian's spiritual state God can use them to minister the gospel of Christ.

My question is was she only water baptized or did she also pray & invite Jesus into her life?(Romans 10:9-10)

Our salvation doesn't depend on any man. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Eph. 1:7, Colossians 1:14)
---Rickey on 8/9/11

\\Baptism is about you going public expressing your faith in Christ.\\
* W * R * O * N * G * !!!

Colossians - 2: 11,12 Baptism as the NT sign of the covenant. Like circumsion is a public thing (in the temple) baptism is a public thing. It symbolizes the death and burial with Christ and with him you are raised to new life. People flocked to John the Baptist to be baptized in the river openly and in public. Jesus got baptized with many people around. It is a commitment issue of professing your faith. It is a baptist thing like the person who asked this question.
---Scott1 on 8/9/11

John the Baptist says, "'I did not know Him, but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.'" (John 1:31) So, Christian baptism is especially for making Jesus known. So, if this is mainly what her baptism was about, good. May be the son telling her what he did shows he was on his way to becoming more honest. This could be good > "Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16) And was she getting baptized in order to confess Jesus before people? Matthew 10:32
---Bill_willa6989 on 8/9/11

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---Blogger9211 I would like to go on record as being against(rejecting) infant baptism.

Here from Acts 8:36-37 is the qualification given by Philip for baptism.
" 36-And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water, what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37-And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. "
---mima on 8/9/11

\\Baptism is about you going public expressing your faith in Christ.\\

* W * R * O * N * G * !!!

Anciently, baptisms were NEVER done in public. Find ONE example in the Bible. All the descriptions are consistent with their being done privately.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/9/11

Jesus said HE Who believes and is baptised... sorry for that pastor who allowed his unchristian son to practice a most holy sacrament. but on the other hand, your friend? she BELIEVED and therefore is accepted by God.
---andy3996 on 8/9/11

Baptism is about you going public expressing your faith in Christ. Her faith is not based on his lifestyle. Pick any verses you like about God being her redeemer not man. Baptism does not save you or make you a christian.
---Scott1 on 8/9/11

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You my only be Baptized once in your life by sprinkling, pouring or immersion, as an infant, youth or adult. If you reject infant baptism or baptized more than once you are a heretic and shall suffer the fate of all heretics.
---Blogger9211 on 8/9/11

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