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Important To Obey God

Which is more important - my salvation or my honoring God by obeying Him?

Join Our Christian Chat and Take The Obedience Bible Quiz
 ---jerry6593 on 2/22/12
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---StrongAxe on 2/27/12
1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.

If we sin, and desire forgiveness and salvation, that can only come through shedding of blood

Hebrews 9:22 without shedding of blood is no remission.

So when a person broke Gods law, and desired remmision for sin, he then goes through the sanctuary process.

Jesus did the entire sanctuary process for us
Sin remains what it has always been: violation of God's laws.

The laws which we no longer have to follow (on earth) are the laws which tell us how God deals with sin ( sanctuary laws)

All laws which make up sin must be obeyed. Laws which tell us how God deals with sin, are taken care of by Jesus

---francis on 2/27/12

Some people just dont get it. God wants us to LOVE him and agree with his ways. Not just obey so we dont go to hell.

It is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance. It is the knowledge of what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did for us when we were fearful enemies of God that turns our hearts back to God in repentance.

If God has to force you to change against your will then its NOT real change. Its not from the heart. And the "love" that you feel isnt really FROM you. What does scripture say? God is able to make children for himself out of stones. He could make puppets anytime he wanted to. But can a puppet truly love if it lacks its OWN heart?
---JackB on 2/28/12

MarkV I'm sorry but you misunderstood me. I never said us or our prayers will save anyone. I said we touch God and he touches them. I meant that our prayer of faith goes to God in behalf of a sinner,asking God to save that person. Then God moves on that persons heart to repent,he draws a person to him. The Bible tells me Gods will. 2 Peter3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise,as some count slackness but longsuffering toward us not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Their choice to accept or refuse.Matthew 23:21 I don't take that verse figuratively. Of course I believe God does everything according to his will,his way,his Word.
---Darlene_1 on 2/28/12


Such verses tell us "sin is bad", which we all can agree upon. However. They do not tell us what sin IS, or what acts constitute sin and which ones do not. For that, we must look elsewhere.

So, what how can you know which old testament laws we are required to believe, and which ones we aren't? According to Jewish law, ALL of them were sin. So which ones are no longer sin, and why not? And where in the Bible does it tell us this?
---StrongAxe on 2/27/12

---StrongAxe on 2/27/12
lets take these two
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Look at the language is one worse than the other?

Jesus would have died for us it that was the only sin that was ever commited
---francis on 2/27/12

In the end, it is the will of God, that's why we need that faith and should be asking by that faith in God. And if God wills to save a soul, He will save it. If we for minute did not have that faith, it would be useless for us to pray for a soul to be saved.
It is not our prayer that saves a soul, it is God who saves the soul. We pray because we trust God.
---Mark_V. on 2/27/12

We know God is not WILLING, again WILLING having to do with His WILL, that any should perish.

God is not WILLING anyone to be saved either.

It is God's WILL period that the Church, Christ Body here on earth CERTAINLY do pray and preach the Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/12

Darline, (Matt. 23:21) "If you have faith and do not doubt" This presupposes that the thing requested is actually God's will. (v22) "And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." Here He was speaking figuratively about the immeasurable power of God not man's prayer, unleashed in the lives of those with true faith in God.
In the end, it is the will of God, that's why we need that faith and should be asking by that faith in God. And if God wills to save a soul, He will save it. If we for minute did not have that faith, it would be useless for us to pray for a soul to be saved.
It is not our prayer that saves a soul, it is God who saves the soul. We pray because we trust God.
---Mark_V. on 2/27/12


You said: A: All laws whcih if done or left undone is called an abomination or sin must be kept. It is because of them that jesus died. ANd God will forever hate sin

Do you have any scriptures to back that up? I.e. that THESE laws must STILL be kept, while others don't? I would really like to see chapter and verse, and not merely opinion.
---StrongAxe on 2/27/12

Gordon //The sins of the flesh mentioned in GALATIONS 5:19-21 can be summed up by the Ten Commandments.

While these sins of the flesh may be tied in with at least 9 of the commandments, nothing listed can be tied in with the Sabbath commandment as it is simply a sign of the covenant God made ONLY with Israel.

None of the Mosaic tenets were required of Gentile beleivers.

Acts 15:8-9 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

It as 'by faith' believers were cleansed!
---lee1538 on 2/27/12

Haz27, The sins of the flesh mentioned in GALATIONS 5:19-21 can be summed up by the Ten Commandments. Certainly "Adultery", "Envyings", "Murders", can be covered by the 10 Commandments. But, the other sins of "Fornication", "Witchcraft", "Wrath", "Strife", "Heresies" and "Drunkenness", etc. are included because these particular sins are similar to Bearing false witness or Lying. When one gets drunk they (usually) lose self-control and say or do things that are sinful. Witchcraft is IDOLATRY and a coveting for power and "glory". It all ties in with the Ten Commandments. Obey the 10 Commandments and you will not commit the sins of GALATIONS 5.
---Gordon on 2/27/12

TheSeq, But, what do you mean? The Verses that you just quoted from EXODUS 20 ARE the 10 Commandments. They are not part of the 613 Mosaic Laws. So, I don't even get why you're trying to defend the argument of "the 613 Mosaic laws being one with the 10 Commandments" by only quoting Verses from EXODUS 20 that are, in fact, the list of the Ten Commandments.
---Gordon on 2/27/12

---StrongAxe on 2/27/12
A: All laws whcih if done or left undone is called an abomination or sin must be kept. It is because of them that jesus died. ANd God will forever hate sin

B: The earthly sanctuary and it's laws were given to us " as a schoolmaster" to teach about christ and the plan of redeemption. Christ came and did everything (FULFILLED) the laws of the earthly sanctuary. He is the lamb, high priest, ETC, and he ministers in the real sanctuary in heaven. So we do not have to keep any of these laws. This also includes all feasts associated with the earthly sanctuary

B: We don't have to keep any laws which have to do with blood sacrifies, this includes circumcision which is "slso" a blood sacrifice
---francis on 2/27/12

//Which is more important - my salvation or my honoring God by obeying Him?

We truly need to beware of those who promote law keeping as the Pharisees were extremely good at obeying the law thinking to themselves that they were obeying God.

The Apostle Paul stated that as "under the law blameless" and that he had "suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith-" (Philippians 3:6f)

It is that righteousness from God that depends on faith that we need seek.
---lee1538 on 2/27/12

Phi 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ,
1Jn 3:22-24 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Some people are keeping the wrong commandments and calling it faith.
Mat 19:16-24
---micha9344 on 2/27/12


Can you provide an itemized list of just WHICH of the 613 commandments of the Law Christians are required to keep, and which ones they are now free from? And if so, what criteria are used to out various laws in one category vs. the other?
---StrongAxe on 2/27/12

Haz: "Do you agree with him? "

I agree with the Bible.

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even TEN COMMANDMENTS, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

If you refuse to obey ten, why would you care about 613?

---jerry6593 on 2/27/12

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Our prayers for the lost touches God and he touches them.
Darlene_1 on 2/26/12

If it wasnt so sad, that would be funny!
Sorry, I had too! I should pray for the lost.

Tell me, who was praying before the world knew God?
1Co 1:21-28, 1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence!

Try to understand this:
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

---TheSeg on 2/26/12

MarkV my answer,God's Word,we pray because prayer changes things. Acts 11:14-Who shall tell you words,whereby you and all your house shall be saved. 1Thessaloians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. Matthew 21:22 And all things,whatsoever you shall ask in prayer,believing,you shall receive. James 5:16-20 Confess your faults one to another,and pray for oneanother,that you may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much (read the rest from the Bible). Acts 10:34,35 Then Peter opened his mouth and said,Of a truth I perceive God is no respecter of Persons. 1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death,and he shall ask and he shall give him life. Our prayers for the lost touches God and he touches them.
---Darlene_1 on 2/26/12

The apostle Paul was dead set against any of that nonsense for his converts to Christ.
---John.usa on 2/25/12

He was against circumcision for both Jews and gentile converts

But no one can find any text which speaks against keeping the sabbath, while on the other hand there are many NT which speak in favour of keeping the sabbath

Circumcision was no longer needed after the cross, because it was a sign / covenant of the blessing of abraham which would come to all the nations: RIGHTEOUSNESS BY FAITH

The sabbath on the other hand, simple points to God as creator. Under what circumstances does God cease being the creator?
---francis on 2/25/12

Francis, the explanation is easy. If non-Jew becomes a Jew, he must keep Shabbat. He must also be circumcised. The apostle Paul was dead set against any of that nonsense for his converts to Christ.
---John.usa on 2/25/12

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Atheist, yes, no stoning. There are better ways to discipline and punish a bad son. Like grounding them to their bedroom for a week, or tell him to write on a piece of paper 200 times: "I name promise to be good."
---Eloy on 2/25/12

But that is not what the Bible says to do. Would you not be disobeying th word of god?
---atheist on 2/25/12

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made,
Acts 13:42 the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Acts 15:21 WORD OF GOD in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Hebrews 4:4 And God did rest the seventh day from all his works..For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.
---francis on 2/25/12

jerry6593 and Gordon:
Francis suggests there are more than 10 commandments.
He said, regarding additional commandments to the 10:
"If he were to include every single act that would be sin and of the flesh, it would be too much, so he adds the phrase: Galatians 5:21 "and such like:"

So we see Francis includes the following (From Gal 5:21) in addition to the 10:
THOU SHALT NOT: revel, be drunken, unclean, lascivious, be in variance, emulations, strife, seditions, etc. And "they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God"

Do you agree with him?
---Haz27 on 2/25/12

1-To know there is a God

2-Not to even think that there are other gods besides Him
Ex_20:3 Ex_20:2

28-Not to worship idols in the four ways we worship God
Ex_20:6 Ex_20:5

29-Not to make an idol for yourself
Ex_20:5 Ex_20:4

210-Not to take God's Name in vain
Ex_20:7 Ex_20:6

88-Not to do prohibited labor on the seventh day
Ex_20:11 Ex_20:10

On and on, their all in there
Look it up. Wikipedia 613 commandments
You can't say this law is not part of the law.
Or even, I must do this law, but I can forget that law.
It's the whole law or nothing, not just some.
I'm not saying anyone can!
---TheSeg on 2/25/12

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//The sabbath was made for man, ( GENTILE EXCLUDED?)
And we may also say that if you ever get around to reading the book of Hebrews you would see that those who have come to believe in Jesus are the ones who will or have entered into that rest of God as protrayed by the Sabbath.

While Adventist strive hard to justify observance of the Jewish Sabbaht (it was given only to the Jewish nation), they have yet to find a single command or even a hint of a command in the Bible that the church needs observe it.

Do you suppose that God's Holy Spirit neglected to command it of His church and had to send olde Ellen White to correct it?
---lee1538 on 2/25/12

---John.usa on 2/25/12
explain this:
Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths,..and take hold of my covenant, Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters... Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it,

The sabbath was made for man, ( GENTILE EXCLUDED?)
---francis on 2/25/12

john.usa. The Ten Commandments are NOT a part of the 613 Mosaic laws. COUNT THEM. The Ten Commandments have always, ALWAYS been recognized as being a totally separate set of Laws or Commands. Even here in the United States. There have been a recognition of the Ten Commandments, certainly as being applicable to society in general. Those who DISS the Ten Commandments as being GOD's current Commands do so, in part, as a ruse to avoid the Commandment of the Sabbath.
---Gordon on 2/25/12

Atheist, yes, no stoning. There are better ways to discipline and punish a bad son. Like grounding them to their bedroom for a week, or tell him to write on a piece of paper 200 times: "I name promise to be good."
---Eloy on 2/25/12

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Many people will keep the 1st commandment?
So, many keep it. You sure its not many believe they are?
Because of, 1Jn_4:20!
You see Christ took 600+ laws and made them two.
But not that you would see two laws!
Do you really think you can do one, without the other!

So he said, Joh_13:34,Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

As I have loved you!
1Jn_4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
not as the world giveth, give I unto you.

You cannot avoid keeping the Sabbath.
Loving your brother as yourself is the fulfillment of the law.
If you dont believe it here, Mat_22:40!
Read Joh_13:33-34 Little children!
My Little children
---TheSeg on 2/25/12

Darline, to be fair, I have to answer you also. What about my question?
Why pray for God to change our sons and daughters if you believe that salvation is dependent on a persons choice? God quickens the heart, but He does not quicken everyones. He brings life, but not to everyone. What purpose would we have in coming to the Lord to bring life to our sons and daughters in prayer? It would serve no purpose.
You also said,
"Free will kicks Satan to the curb." that is not possible with man. Jesus said,
"And I give them eternal life, and they shall never parish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand" It's not by man's will but Gods will that we are kept from the enemy. Dependence on God only.
---Mark_V. on 2/25/12


Observing the 613 laws (including the Ten Commandments) was required of Gentiles living among the Jews. Since (with the possible exception of Israel), gentiles do not live among Jews in a society run according to Jewish law, such laws would not apply to them.
---StrongAxe on 2/25/12

john.usa: "The Ten Commandments are included in the 613. They never applied to Gentiles."

I disagree. The Ten Commandments are the Law of God which He wrote Himself and were placed INSIDE the arc of the covenant. The other "laws" were the handwriting of ordinances written by Moses on parchment and placed on the side of the arc. Big difference!

There were gentiles present at Mt. Sinai in the "mixed multitude", and they ALL kept the Sabbath before they reached Mt. Sinai.

Besides, didn't "thou shalt not kill" apply to Cain?

---jerry6593 on 2/25/12

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The Ten Commandments are included in the 613. They never applied to Gentiles. Observing Shabbat is optional for all Gentiles. If you want to observe, that's fine.
---John.usa on 2/25/12

So that stoning with stone until dead is out---right.
---atheist on 2/25/12

Lee1538, Absolutely YES. Some things are optional. Circumcision and the 613 Mosaic laws are optional. The "Ten Commandments" are NOT optional. The first 4 Commands concern a man's Relationship with GOD. The last 6 Commands pertain to loving one's neighbour as one's self. So, yes, it's true, as you asked, somethings ARE optional. But, as well, some Laws or Commandments are NOT optional.
---Gordon on 2/24/12

Atheist, Yes. Generally God has 2 Commandments that he requires all people to obey:

1. You will love the Lord God with all your heart and life and conscience and might.
2. You will love others as you love yourself.

On these 2 commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Many people will keep the 1st commandment, but the 2nd commandment to love others, or do and say to others exactly what you want others to do and say to you, they do not do.
---Eloy on 2/24/12

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John.usa, uh huh.
---Eloy on 2/24/12

Eloy and ExcellentWay, I'm just taking what I heard around here to its logical conclusion.
---John.usa on 2/24/12

This question was prompted by what I perceive as an inordinate preoccupation by some with their OWN salvation. We are each not the center of the universe, such that if something doesn't benefit us in obtaining passage to heaven, we don't consider it important. God is our Father and we are His children. As such, we are honor bound to show respect to Him rather than finding scriptural "tricks" to keep from obeying that which He has clearly commanded.

---jerry6593 on 2/24/12

Gordon, Jerry, Lee and all...

Is there not somewhere in the Bible a clear list of what you must do to obey god?
---atheist on 2/24/12

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Gordon//Jerry6593, Your soul-Salvation and obedience to GOD go hand in hand. If you disobey GOD, you are not following HIM.
But would you agree that some laws of God found in the Old Testament became optional for the Christian?

Such things as the day one may esteem as holy, or what foods one may eat or even physical circumcision or other laws strictly Jewish in nature.

Romans 14 seems to give the Christian an option regarding certain things.

Await your answer.
---lee1538 on 2/24/12

Humble: gift
Mat 5:3
Hebraic : the Hebrew word for (poor) is aniy and carries the same definition as the Greek word Ptochos.
Prochos: one who is lacking, destitute and afflicted.

However, in the Hebrew culture it literally means, bent down--- low.
Translated back to Hebrew then into English:
Blessed are the humble in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Humble before the Lord.
(BRK) is the root foundation to the verb (barak) meaning to kneel (action) and the noun berek meaning knee (object). The abstract concept (Greco-Roman) is a blessing,
Bringing a gift on bended knee.
Bless and keep - Greco-Roman abstract words. A berakah [Hebrew] is a blessing, as the bringing of a gift to another on a bended knee.
---char on 2/24/12

Grace: Camp
English - 1.Elegance or beauty of form, manner, motion or action. 2. Mercy, clemency, pardon
Greek: (grace or mercy) abstract concept
Hebraic: concrete [hhen] stgs 2580- hhet- pitch camp tent, wall
nun- seed representing Son of Life- protection- Ysha

Related Hebrew word is [berakah] defined as blessing or gift or present.---Ysha.

Ex: 14: 20 And it came between the [camp] of the Egyptians and the [camp] of Israel, and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night.

Grace is the (gift) protection given.
---char on 2/24/12

2 Chr 20:20 faith- cause or make [firm-support-] the Word of God.
God engaged in faith-[eh-mu-na/emuna] when He saved all the people that crossed the sea: the good and the wicked. Man engaged in faith by (action) not just (thought), when crossing.
The agreement-Amen.
He is the Gift.

Eph 2 (all)8 For by [Grace] ye are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: the gift of God. Do we, then, nullify the Torah by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the Torah. Rom 3:31

He is the gift--He gave Himself.
The agreement-Emuna-Amen.
---char on 2/24/12

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The Creators direct speech- His Word in Spirit and in truth- is His Gift. Truth that comes directly from within El- hiym.
Emuna is what is declared in agreement-Amen.
Gift: Bride
As Bride to the [groom/body of Christ] - vice versa- Groom/body of Christ to the Bride.
Body of Christ-Groom
Bride - One Chosen for the groom

Bride [Chosen], protected [kept] as a chaste virgin for the groom.

Hearing comes by the Word of God----not the word of man.
And Faith [comes] by Hearing [Gods Word]---- not the word of man.
Rom10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Eph 2 (all)8 For by [Grace] ye are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: the gift of God.

He is the Gift-given.
---char on 2/24/12

MarkV thank you for your kind words,I never take offense when your opinion is different than mine. Man has to change his mind before he can change his heart and life. The change of mind comes from hearing,understanding the Gospel of Christ,being drawn by God. God can draw without all accepting his call,free will. When the mind is quickened by the Word to repentance and accepted there is belief and an infilling of God,Christ in the heart. We change our hearts and lives by learning the Word of God,the will of God,the ways of God,by accepting in faith and obedience God before our own wills,or the wills of other persons. Our freedom of choice of God over Satan has victory in it for God and his Kingdom. Free will kicks Satan to the curb.
---Darlene_1 on 2/24/12

Jerry6593, Your soul-Salvation and obedience to GOD go hand in hand. If you disobey GOD, you are not following HIM.
---Gordon on 2/24/12

John.usa, This passage is Not talking about the righteous, but the sinners who pretend to be righteous. lit.Hb: "You meet him who rejoices and works righteousness, they remembered you in your ways. Note you are angry because we sinned, in them unfinishing and we will be saved. But we are each as the unclean, and each our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. Note, none are calling upon your name, stirring themself up to take hold of you: for you have hid your face from us, and have dissolved us, because of our offenses." Is.64:5-7. Genesis 7:1 And Yhwh said to Noah, Go into the ark both you and all your household. For you have I seen Righteous to me in this generation.
---Eloy on 2/23/12

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Isaiah was not condemning works of righteousness, but instead he was speaking of the hypocrits. Isaiah does not say that all righteousnesses of the Lord's servants are filthy rags, but instead he says that all the righteousnesses of the evil-doers are as filthy rags. Please Read- Isaiah 64:5-12+ 65:1-3,11-18.
Matthew 13:43 The Lord says Then shall the Righteous shine forth as the sun
Matthew 25:46 And the Lord says The cursed shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the Righteous into life eternal.
I John 3:7 As it is written Little children, let no person deceive you: whoever that does righteousness is Righteous, even as he is Righteous.
---Eloy on 2/23/12

Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men, but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
---TheSeg on 2/24/12

Be like an ATHENIAN (good point, Seg, it took courage to say that).

In Paul's speech of Acts 17, Paul told them that he is going to speak about what they ALREADY worship ("AS UNKNOWN").

The Athenians were somewhat a 'philosopher type' people (like Socrates, Plato, etc. that studied truth) and admired the noble qualities of peace and justice (and their divine origin also).

Humanity NEEDS a savior because it is not OF DIVINE QUALITY/status.

Jesus came for those who are of a "SICK" spirit/character (although none of us are "worthy" and WE ALL need choose FORMAL RECOGNITION of Jesus as savior sent by the 'ORIGIN SPIRIT'/creator.
---more_excellent_way on 2/24/12

JohnUsa, you are VERY fit for "heaven" (because you don't doubt that you are unworthy of God's majesty). You put God on a HIGH REALLY "decrease" so that He will INCREASE.

You misunderstand words by using 'religious LINGO' and think they mean something else. You cannot 'be given' faith. If you trust that you are now sitting at your computer, then you 'have the ability to believe' whatever makes sense to you. If you believe...
1) that God exists, AND believe....

2) that He is a REWARDER (because He is GOOD), then you have the TWO kinds of faith necessary ("faith for faith" Romans 1:17).

Hebrews 11:6 "faith that He exists" AND "faith that He is a REWARDER".
---more_excellent_way on 2/24/12

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It says in the Bible that our righteousness is just filthy rags to God. So no matter what you do, it stinks to God. So it's no use trying to please God by being obedient or anything else. He hates it.
---John.usa on 2/23/12

Hi all
Ill say this, if your salvation hangs on you obeying God and this is what you believe.
Then ask yourself, do I really believe Im obeying God. But answer yourselves in truth.
Because if you are saying you are obeying God, then you have no need of salvation.
For you are saved!

I just love the way, all of you say, this is what you must do. Yet none of you keep it!
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

I will also say this!
Our salvation doesnt hang on you or me.
It was hang on the cross!
---TheSeg on 2/23/12

This question seems a little silly (or its answer seems fairly obvious). If this is an either-or situation, one has two options:

1) Be saved and risk disobeying God, or
2) Obey God and risk being lost.

What kind of salvation can one have if it depends on disobeying God?

On the other hand, obeying God, and trusting on his judgment as to your salvation (rather than on your own works) makes perfect sense.
---StrongAxe on 2/23/12

Darline, I read what you said, it sounds great, most every denomination believes that, but there is a big problem with that.
First of all you know I love you, and one of the reasons I ask you to pray not only for me but for others is really because I believe in my heart your a prayer warrior and dependent upon God for everything. If you didn't believe this I would never ask you.
When we pray for God to save our children it is because we know in our heart only God can change their hearts. If the lost could change their own hearts, why even pray and depend on God? It would have no purpose. It would depend on the people not God.
And last, we know by His Word, "that without Him we can do nothing." absolutely nothing.
---Mark_V. on 2/23/12

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Yes, salvation and obeying God go together.

See 1John3:23. "And this is His commandment: that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another"

The sin the world is convicted of is UNBELIEF in Jesus, John 16:9

"Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of UNBELIEF in departing from the living God" Heb 3:12

Judging our righteousness by the law is UNBELIEF.
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace"
Gal 5:4
"If it be of works, then it is NO MORE GRACE" Rom 11:6
---Haz27 on 2/23/12

Honoring God by obeying him is salvation.
---Eloy on 2/23/12

//it is still up to each person to accept or refuse it,thats free will. He didn't choose certain people for salvation but leave others out.

People are saved by hearing the gospel and responding to the invitation to accept Christ.

think about it.

Most of the world's population at the beginning of the church age never heard of the gospel.

even today, there are millions that will never heard of Jesus or the gospel message.

So will all people have an opportunity to accept or reject salvation?

We are commanded to go and spread the Word to a world that has not heard of Jesus.

Furthermore there are those today who are not Christians who are totally satisfied with their lives as it is.

---lee1538 on 2/23/12

Lee1538 Scripture makes sense to me and I don't believe God chose all of mankind for salvation without free will. God did make salvation avaiable for all,but it is still up to each person to accept or refuse it,thats free will. He didn't choose certain people for salvation but leave others out. If salvation was for all humankind,without choice or commitment,then there would be no need for man to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved,Acts 16:31-,"Believe in the Lord Jesus,and you and your household will be saved". How or why God does things isn't something I question or concern myself with for I know it is all for the Glory of God and his Kingdom. I am just very grateful I am one of those who accepted God through his son Jesus.
---Darlene_1 on 2/23/12

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Jerry, that answer is simple. Our salvation is most important. Without our salvation we cannot obey God for we would be found

"in which we once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (Eph. 2:1,2).

"But God who is rich in mercy because of His great love with which He loved us, "even when we were dead in trespasses," made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved," (Eph. 2:4,5).

"through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 8,9).
---Mark_V. on 2/23/12

Honor God by obeying His WILL. Romans 1:21 "although they knew God they did not honor him AS GOD".

TRUST that everything that Jesus did (the "works of God") is COMPLETELY sufficient (you don't need to do works/deeds). The apostate devotion is explained in Hebrews 6. JESUS is our one and only foundation. If we trust in OUR deeds/"works" by "repentance" (repentance foundation), then we SPURN JESUS. All of the deeds/effort that we do does not mean 'all is lost', "For God is not so unjust"....

Hebrews 6:10 "as to overlook"...all of the works you performed, neither will He overlook the spiritual love (PERFECT love) that you wrongly give to EACH OTHER INSTEAD OF HIM.
---more_excellent_way on 2/22/12

Amen Cluny both are important. Our Salvation leads to obdience.

We are to Love GOD. Which results in doing what He says. We are to love our neighbor which results in doing right by others.

These are the result of being Born Again by the HOLY SPIRIT. If they do not happen then we are not Born Again. Read First John.
---Samuel on 2/22/12

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see, and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?

Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see, therefore your sin remaineth.
---TheSeg on 2/22/12

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You may go a step further and ask others what we must do to obey God.

As Christians are to live by His Spirit rather than by the law, it is essential that we learn to do that. (see 2 Cor. 3:7,9 regarding the ministry of death & condemnation versus the ministry of the Spirit)

If we obey laws, rules, regulations, statutes, etc. will that be credited to our account since Christians depend upon the rigtheousness in Christ, not in ourselves?

The righteous live by faith - Romans 1:17, Gal. 3:11.
---lee1538 on 2/22/12

Matthew 9:12-14,

"But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
---christan on 2/22/12

Which is the more important side of a clean sheet of paper?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/22/12

When I was growing up, because I loved my dad, I cared about his concerns (his likes/dislikes...his WILL). He jokingly "commanded" me once. As soon as he saw that I was shocked and confused, we both laughed (he was proving a point).

Honor (pay homage) to God and let your "good and right and true" behavior be your prayer offering to Him. When you talk to Him, "go into your room" and speak with Him in private/"secret" so that your relationship remain truly PERSONAL. Your salvation ("purification of the flesh" Hebrews 9:14) has been accomplished ("It is DONE")....let the Spirit be the "guarantee" Ephesians 1:14.

All verses are from the RSV.
---more_excellent_way on 2/22/12

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Which is more important - my salvation or my honoring God by obeying Him?

---jerry6593 on 2/22/12
Good question, seen that they are in fact tied together

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
---francis on 2/22/12

God wants us to have salvation. So, our salvation is included in honoring and obeying God.

And salvation is not only mine, but our salvation with Jesus.

And there are people who claim that their way of obeying is what God wants, but it is not what God wants for obeying Him. So, if someone's obeying is false, it is not pleasing to God, not "important".

Obeying has a lot first to do with how to be . . . how Jesus says it is "Blessed" to be, in His Beatitudes, "and you will find rest for your souls," He says in Matthew 11:29, if we are obeying Him. So, obeying is not just what we do to copy-cat standards of a self-important group.
---Bill_willa6989 on 2/22/12

How can one be saved without obeying God? If you think you are saved but disobey God then who are you obeying?? Satan?

When you obey God you keep His commandments and follow and abide in the words of His Son. That is all God asks of us. Is that too hard? Just do what Jesus told the rich young ruler keep the commandments and FOLLOW HIM.
---barb on 2/22/12

You can't obey Him without salvation. Why? Because you don't know Him. That's like putting the cart before the horse.

You gotta get saved/Born Again first, then once your spirit comes alive unto God, you have your salvation. You believe in Jesus, pray to Him, fellowship with Him, Praise Him, Worship Him, and you OBEY His word.

Jesus said, "If you love me, you'll obey me." You can't do that without the power of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians tells us that there's a spirit now working in the sons of disobedience (unsaved folks).
---anon on 2/22/12

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"Which is more important - my salvation or my honoring God by obeying Him?"

Salvation belongs to the Lord and is to His praise and glory. True obedience is also to His praise and glory, as it is HIS work in those that are His. Salvation, as the initial act, if you will, is fundamental to obedience, so might be thought most important, however, salvation is ongoing and culminated in the Day of our Lord. Obedience is evidence of salvation, and inseparable
---chria9396 on 2/22/12

How is this in conflict? If this is a conflict I would do some soul searching. Salvation is obeying God.
---Scott1 on 2/22/12

darlene 1 //God does not make us choose salvation or obeying him...

Ever wonder about what options Saul of Tarsus had when he met Jesus on the road to Damascus?

And does not God govern history by dealing with men in accordance to whatever His will is?

Ever pity the poor old Esau who really got the short end of the stick?

Romans 9:11-12 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Scripture only makes sense when you believe God has chosen us for salvation, that it is not our decision by our own free will but all of His grace.
---lee1538 on 2/22/12

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