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Sexually Immoral Behavior

How does one minister to those who are involved in sexually immoral behavior?

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 ---lee1538 on 5/11/12
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Peter, maybe I shouldn't have answered for Micha. Sorry Micha.

Brother Peter, I do believe you are right, in every believers heart, we should repent always since we are not good all the time. In fact we walk in the flesh so many times during the day, but slowly we are been change. And the more we study who God is, the more we see our sin and how much God has to clean out in our lives.
---Mark_V. on 7/18/12

Peter, I believe what Micha was referring to was that the good we do is sin, if it is not done in faith. For without Him we can do nothing good. If a person does good without faith in Christ, it is sin. For it does not bring glory to God. I'm pretty sure that is what he meant, I hope so anyway, but it might not be what he was talking about. Peace brother,
---Mark_V. on 7/15/12

Micha: You commented '-If they are doing right, there is no need for repentance is there?'

THe comment would be 'if only do good always'. But the nature of man is evil, so there are enough places in the Bible about repentance - Jesus puts in the Lord's Prayer, as something to prayed always.

Yes, we are Christian, but as we come from a fallen race, not all that we do will be good
---Peter on 7/15/12

Nana, to my answer you said The Judgment Seat of Christ"

"Is it there where you'll be told, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

No Nana, because those there God forknew, the others He didn't.

"And "we" (believers) know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. "For whom He foreknew" He also predestine to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called, whom He called, these He also justified, and whom He justified, these He also glorified" (Rom. 8:28-30).
---Mark_V. on 7/14/12

"The Judgment Seat of Christ". "Paul talking to believers the "we" in (v. 10). "

Is it there where you'll be told, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Matthew 7:20_21: "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Luke 12:48 "But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."
---Nana on 7/14/12

Nana, you gave "The Judgment Seat of Christ" that is the judgment for all believers in Christ, where they will receive their rewards (2 Cor. 5:9-11). Paul talking to believers the "we" in (v. 10).
"The Great White Throne of Judgment" is the judgment for all the damned which names are not written in the book of life but are written in the book of works, (Rev. 20:11-15).
---Mark_V. on 7/14/12

2 Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
Does Christ make you good or bad? Neither. If that was the case men would need not be 'persuaded'(2 Cor. 5:11)
It has of old always been the same, Isaiah 1:17 "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."

At judgement, some of you cats will say, "You made me this way"?
The Samaritan in the parable did God's will and those of his household did not!
So, being of 'the house' means diddly in the end..., (2 Corinthians 5:10).
---Nana on 7/13/12

--The only good that can be done is throught Christ.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
--All else is immorality and is utterly rejected..
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
--If they are doing right, there is no need for repentance is there?
--All men--Every where--
---micha9344 on 7/12/12

Romans 6:13 "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God."
Romans 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Nevertheless micha9344, if you can't contain yourself, well, go ahead on and yield yourself as you see fit.
---Nana on 7/12/12

Yes, Micha, from a Christian point of view, idolatry is immoral, but perhaps, from their point, your worship of God is idolatry.

Francis, thank you for your input.
---NurseRobert on 7/12/12

Nurse Roberts: The morality of a non-Christian is a disguise, trap and a seduction weapon. The Bible says, "Satan also appears as an angel of light". Do not be hooked by their morality but consider the end of their way(s). If the end of a faltering Christian(immoral) today is Jesus tomorrow, then it is better than that of a morally ok (today) non-christian that ends tomorrow without Christ.
---Adetunji on 7/12/12

The question is can a nonChristain be a moral person?
---NurseRobert on 7/12/12
based on your definition: YES
based on the bible: YES

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)
---francis on 7/12/12

Obviously Im not being clear in my response. Morality is based on your belief, whether it be Christian belief or based on another.

The question is can a nonChristain be a moral person?
---NurseRobert on 7/12/12

It seems we have mockers on both sides, but continuing on....
Their belif is what makes them immoral.
we already agreed that idolatry is wrong, therefore immoral.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Weave it your way..
---micha9344 on 7/12/12

Nurse Roberts, that's where you are wrong. Morality is not based upon what you believe. Morality has a standard that is constant and unchanging. It is something that is universally the same for everyone, regardless if you accept it / believe in it or not. Just as God does not change based upon your belief in Him.
---Jed on 7/12/12

Aaaahhh.. but thats the rub, Micha, buddist and hinduist dont believe they need to come to Christ. From a Christian point of view, we believe that Christ is the only way of salvation and they are wrong.

That said, does thier belief make them immoral people? That is the question you ask and I ask to you.

Jed. I thought thats what we were doing, making assumptions about each other. You dont like it when people do it about you, but you have no problem doing it with others. This conversation is simple, can NonChristians be moral? For a Christian, morality is based on scripture. For a non Christian, morality is based on what they believe. While as Christians we believe in one thing that does NOT make others immoral.
---NurseRobert on 7/11/12

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"What is the need for the Savior if one can be moral (do what it right and not what is wrong) on one's own?"

Luke 8::15 "But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience."
Notice, an "honest an good heart" is a requirement and NOT a byproduct!
John 1:11_12 "He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him,..."
Notice, only those who 'receive him' are to whom it is granted? Even the "chief priests and Pharisees" knew that! (Matt. 21:41).

Nevertheless, you're free to weave as you see fit. May even catch a fly or two...
---Nana on 7/11/12

I differ on this than you.
The Bible says "none are righteous"(Rom 3:10), and "all our righteousness are as filthy rags"(Isa 64:6)
This cannot be just about Christians, nay, it cannot be about Christians at all.
What is the need for the Savior if one can be moral (do what it right and not what is wrong) on one's own?
Is there a difference between what is moral to some and what is moral to God?
Why would a Buddhist come to Christ if all he or she needs to do is follow that religions guidelines?
Does not everyone need to be reconciled to God?
or is this just the "exclusivity" I was talking about?
---micha9344 on 7/11/12

YOure getting sidetracked Micha.. There is a difference between salvation and morality. While salvation comes from God, through Jesus, that doesnt change the fact that people can be moral without a belief in the Christian God.
---NurseRobert on 7/11/12

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
The law of reciprocity lead men to settle their differences and shun their mutually exclusive morality from being a stumbling block to each other.
Joseph lived and prospered in Egypt and in that saved his people.
Lev.19:33 "And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him."
---Nana on 7/10/12

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We need to use scripture to persuade people to turn away from lustful practices.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
---billy9676 on 7/10/12

NurseRoberts: Some time ago,you wrote: 'do know right from wrong and are moral people, based on their beliefs'.

That is generally true, yes.

The problem is, what does one do when one (because I think it happens to most people sometime, hopefully soon) knows that one has NOT done what is right.

That is where Christianity really is different.

I read an old book (The Abolition of Man, by C.S.Lewis) which has an index of morality of many cultures, and the differences (between cultures) are smaller than I had expected
---Peter on 7/10/12

Nurse Roberts, there you go assuming again. I have never heard anything like I just said from any "right wing media". I have based my understanding of what you believe on your own words in this thread. You have made your position clear on this blog. If I am wrong in stating that you think morality is subjective to each individuals beliefs, and that Christian beliefs aren't more valid than other beliefs, then please explain to me what you believe? Since you claim that I have the wrong idea about what you believe.
---Jed on 7/10/12

So, from a Christian viewpoint, one may say that all other religions are immoral since they worship other "gods" one way or another, idolatry being immoral.
But this can be said of Christianity from other religions as well, true?
So who is right?
We can all be wrong, but we can't all be right.
Even Jesus said of the Father:
Mat 22:37b ...Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
And of Himself:
John 14:6b ...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Most religions are mutually exclusive.
One can be right, but who?
or am I getting sidetracked again?
---micha9344 on 7/10/12

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Jed, you have no concept (I shouldn't say that, you have a right wing wacko concept) of what a liberal is. You have no concept of what I beleive, just a preconcieved right wing media concept.

Micha, Yes, I agree that idolatry is wrong, but again, you are looking at this from a Christian viewpoint. You still havent answered the question of morality in non Christians.
---NurseRobert on 7/10/12

NurseRobert, It is sad but true. The Bible says we will know them by their fruits--those who claim to be Christian by word only and those who are by Word and deed.
Maybe another question will help enlighten us.
Do you believe that idolatry is immoral?
Do you believe serving other gods to be wrong?
I believe this is one of the main areas which noone can claim morality apart from God.
I'd like to hear your views on the matter.
---micha9344 on 7/10/12

Nurse Roberts, If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything. That is why liberals exist. You either have to choose to stand for God (the ONE true God) or not. But you will chose. And by refusing to choose, you have chosen already.
---Jed on 7/10/12

Adetunji... what fence sitting is this? There are those on this site who claim that on Christians can be moral. I don't agree with this. I beleive that non-Christians can be moral.

People on this site think this site is only for those who think like them. That "holier than thou" attitude is what is scary.
---NurseRobert on 7/10/12

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Nurse Roberts, I did not say that I am right and everyone else is wrong. I said that THE BIBLE is right and everything else is wrong. A concept you obviously don't agree with, so please don't call yourself a Christian if you are going to equate the Bible and Christianity to false religions, including atheism.

BTW, I did not say "stinkin thinkin", I said that is really SICK thinking.
---Jed on 7/10/12

Jed, your view that you are right and everyone else is wrong is whats really scary. Its people like you that start wars and persecute others all in the name of God. Its obvious you have NO understanding of others moral beliefs but simply choose to denigrate instead. A simple conversation on morality shakes you to your toes.

And stinkin thinking? You sound like an Amway salesman.
---NurseRobert on 7/10/12

Nurse Roberts: There is no fence to sit on in spiritual matters. Concerning your question as to the morality of certain Christians, remember all Christians are growing (some in front, some at the back). The ones in front have learnt to overcome many types of temptations while the one at the back are still learning the ropes. The Lord Jesus Christ invites all. Each person learns at different pace.Who is the unbeliever growing up to (=Satan)?.
---Adetunji on 7/10/12

Jed, Do you really think God needs you to defend him?
---Nurse Roberts

Of course God doesn't need me to defend Him. Don't you defend the ones you love, even if they don't need it? This liberal view of yours that everyone's own view of truth and morality is equally valid is very scary and dangerous. I have had conversations with other people that believe like you. They say there is no definitive right and wrong, or even truth. That whatever a person believes truth and morality is, is right for them - that truth and morality (and even reality perhaps?) is subjective to each individual's belief. That is such sick thinking! There IS such a thing as right and wrong, and truth, that doesn't change for anyone or anything.
---Jed on 7/9/12

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Micha.. Yes, It is a good statement, but it doesnt answer the question. I believe that people who follow these religions do know right from wrong and are moral people, based on their beliefs. Christians base their beliefs on how they interpret the Bible. Even with that, not all who claim Christianity are moral people.

Jed, is your belief in God so shallow that you cannot deal with a discussion about other religions? Do you really think God needs you to defend him?
---NurseRobert on 7/9/12

Nurse Roberts, why do you get on a christian website and say you are a christian only to constantly argue and defend the beliefs of other religions? You are one of these liberal hippies that think right and wrong are subjective, dependant on what each individual believes is moral. Well it's not. There really is a standard for living and it is the Word of God, aka The Bible. Anything that does not line up with the Bible is immoral, regardless of what your beliefs are.
---Jed on 7/9/12

Then let us backtrack...
Are these people moral?
Given that we agree on moralilty being the principles or boundaries of behaviour concerning right and wrong, these people would have to know right from wrong to have morals.
Is that a good statement?
Now my question remains: Who establishes what is right from what is wrong? Is it man, who all have varying ideas of right and wrong? Or is it God who establishes right and wrong to His creation.
I don't believe this to be a mere Christian thought since it is God who has created all.
Your thoughts?
---micha9344 on 7/9/12

This is where you jump the track, Micha. You're back to arguing the Christian side of morality. You are not answering the question of other people or religions that may or may NOT believe in a Christian God.

Are this people moral? This is the question.
---NurseRobert on 7/9/12

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Let us see where else we agree:
The "Only True God" (John 27:5) is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The God who created and sustains the world by his power.(Acts 17:25,1Pe 3:7)
And has created man and all nations from one blood to dwell on Earth.(Acts 17:26)
I will continue but can discuss any disagreement with the above, not knowing all but still learning myself...
If it pleases you, let us move on to right and wrong.
May I ask you who determines what is right and what is wrong? Is it man or is it God?
---micha9344 on 7/9/12

Experience demonstrates that this is a difficult subject, and not everyone wants to listen to your experience. Unless you are dealing with someone who knows Gods will for their life and was living in guilt, you'll find that a sexual nature is hard to break and people have to learn.. if they ever do by their own folly.

You may win one or two in your lifetime if it is dealing with guilt, concerning going back to Christ otherwise, its a difficult one.
---Carla on 7/9/12

lee1538: If God gives you the opportunity to be near such persons in their sober moods, gently and without "holier-than-thou" attitude(Gal.6:1) point them to the will of God for all HE created. May the Holy Spirit lead you as you do.
---Adetunji on 7/9/12

"How does one minister to those who are involved in sexually immoral behavior?"

Well, this actually describes probably at least 90% of the world today, even among "christians" (just a guess). So I would think you had better know how to address sexual sin if you're going to be a minister.
---Jed on 7/8/12

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First, be sure you are not liable to be tempted, as that will cloud your judgment. Be sure that is what the person wants. It is too personal an issue to be sharing with unnecessary folk. Don't expect change, it seldom does. Do expect God to superimpose His Spirit on that person to affect grace and maturity to displace the weakness. God has a purpose for all we endure, even the worst snares we are trapped in.
---Phil on 7/8/12

A strange blog, but ok... I tend to agree with your definition. I see it as the principals of behavioral rights and wrong.
---NurseRobert on 7/8/12

NurseRobert, I thought this might be a good place to continue our discussion on morality since the last posting was mid-May and there were only a few posts here...
"Micha.. No, only the Christian sense of right and wrong come from God. What about the Hindu belief of Dharma, or the Buddist belief of Pancha Shila, or even Utilitarianism and Deontology. Are you saying that these people are not moral?"-NurseRobert on 7/7/12
Let us continue by defining "morals"...
I believe morals to be boundaries in regards to what is right and what is wrong..
If you concur or want to expound on this, please do..
---micha9344 on 7/8/12

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I cannot see anyone confessing an un commited sin. That would be presumptious sin, or sinning willfully

Numbers 15:30 But the soul that doeth [ought] presumptuously, [whether he be] born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD, and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
---francis on 5/13/12

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//That the only sin which cannot be forgiven is the one that is unconfess and unrepented of

Is that in the Bible or somewhere in the 'inspired' writings of Ellen White?

Or is that just your opinion?

I always thought that the blood of Christ shed on the Cross atoned for the forgiveness of all sins - past present & future.
---lee1538 on 5/12/12

francis //The same way you minister to anyone who is commiting any sin.
And how is that done? tell them to observe the Jewish Sabbath?
---lee1538 on 5/12/12

No, by telling them about the God of Love who died so that their sin. How through His son Jesus christ has paid the penanty for all sin.

By telling them that God cares for thema nd loves them and is eager to have a loving relationship with them.

By telling them that if we confess our sins, he is faithful and willing to forgive and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That the only sin which cannot be forgiven is the one that is unconfess and unrepented of

And that Jesus is ready to live in thier hearts by faith
---francis on 5/12/12

Karen, that's very good advice.
---Catholicus on 5/12/12

francis //The same way you minister to anyone who is commiting any sin.
And how is that done? tell them to observe the Jewish Sabbath?

Col 2:23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.
---lee1538 on 5/12/12

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Women should minister to women and men to men in this situation. Ideally, someone who has been delivered from these kinds of lifestyles is the best person to minister to those involved in them. Professional Christian counseling may be needed for some situations.
---KarenD on 5/12/12

Most sexual immorality is a failed solution to a root problem. This goes for many things including drunkenness, overeating, over-shopping, etc. What these behaviors do is act as an escape from emotions in the mind. As Paul says in Romans 7:15 "For what I want to do I do not do..." The solution therefore is to remove that emotion from the mind not stop the action. This is usually found in an unforgiveness issue. Forgiveness is for you not the person who hurt you. Emotions are based on the first experience of something but appear as some trigger that is similar to the first experience. Thus we can forgive that person and remove emotion. This is a very simplied version of a video by Gene Wagstaff Overcoming Recurring Problems
---Scott1 on 5/12/12

Remember 1cor 2:13,14: "These things we also speak, not in words which mans wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED."

Example: Heb 12:15,16
"looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled, lest there be any (SPIRITUAL) FORNICATOR or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright."

Considering this, are we speaking of physical OR spiritual sexual immorality?
---Haz27 on 5/11/12

The same way you minister to anyone who is commiting any sin.
---francis on 5/11/12

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Pray and let the Holy Spirit convict are Not Holy all you can do is pray for them and He will convict them of sin, at least that's what Jesus said He would do.

You can also tell them gingerly that the bible says fornicators and adulterers will be judged and is it worth going to hell for?

The wages of sin is death. Do they know that scirpture? Of course not.
---anon on 5/11/12

This sort of ministry is personal and difficult. Before any meaningful ministry can be done, one must earn the trust and confidence of the person ministered to.
---Catholicus on 5/11/12

The same way you minister to any sinner--and which of us is NOT a sinner--that is, by realizing that YOU are the chief of sinners.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/11/12

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