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Blasphemy Of The Holy Spirit

Is it blasphemy of the Holy Spirit if you say that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not working today?

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 ---KarenD on 5/23/12
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Some tongues are genuine, and some are gibberish. Some prophecies are inspired, some are not. Some healings are genunine, and some are not. Some preaching is sound, and some is not. Just how much of each is which - that is a matter for debate. There will always be tares mixed in with wheat, so we always need to use discernment.
---StrongAxe on 6/7/12

Sis Darline, I'm not mad at you. Gibberish is not a language. If there was an unknown country that had that language, you would not speak it in your church but in the country who could understand the Word of God. If it's something personal God gave you, you would keep it personal. Once gibberish is spoken in a church, no one is edified. No one knows what you are saying. If someone interpreted and said it was from God then people would have to believe him not God. It can never be authenticated it comes from God. It serves no purpose to stand up and speak in gibberish in Church? Only that you have something others don't. It's become so prideful that other churches are teaching if you don't speak in gibberish you are not saved. I call that pride.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/12

Mark V I'm sorry,with all respect for you and your education,you know what is taught there but not all Pentecostal Churches are alike. I said "bordering on blasphemy",I didn't say you are a blasphemer I said that because when you call tongues gibberish and what if they are really from the Holy Ghost enabling a person,it is near blasphemy. Blasphemy is any irreverent word or deed done or spoken against God or his work. It was never about all your answers. I never gave any answer to you out of pride,that's something I have never had about the Gifts of the Spirit and tongues. Being used of God in any way is very humbling because it is God ministering not the person.
---Darlene_1 on 6/6/12

Sis. Darline, I don't misundertand the topic of tongues. I was a Pentacostal for many years when I begin my walk with Christ. I have witnessed with my own two eyes. I have studied the topic for many years, even took a two year course by Derek Prince ministries. Do not be concern for me. I know what I am talking about when it comes to the gifts of the Spirit and what is taught there at the Pentacostal churches.
Blasphemy you say to me, why am I not suprise at your reaction to my answers. That is the only thing that separates me from that movement, their pride. I was a witness to that when I asked questions to the teachers concerning the indwelling of the Spirit. They told me to be submissive and not ask questions, and after me no one ask.
---Mark_V. on 6/6/12


I totally agree. I think the "you aren't saved unless you speak in tongues" people are WAY off the mark. This can lead to such errors as people being so desperate that they will end up babbling gibberish (whether deliberately or not) just so they can "feel" saved, or at least a feeling of condemnation that you might not be "good enough".

Years ago, I read some horror story about one church where the pastor "taught" people how to speak in tongues. He told them to say some phrase like "praise Jesus" over and over again quickly, and eventually, people would start speaking on tongues!
---StrongAxe on 6/4/12

Mark V I'm sorry but you misunderstand what speaking in tongues is about. It isn't to make one feel good,or holy it is about obedience to God. Yes there are some denominations who say you aren't saved if you don't speak in tongues but it isn't in all Pentecostal Churches. I have never believed that nor heard it preached. The move of God in whatever way he chooses is up to him. If you want to deny these works of God thats up to you,but be careful,calling God's work names is bordering on blasphemy and my concern is for you. The Holy Ghost enables,and gives utterance . If all used your guidelines then they could say prove its not God, and you can't do that. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 6/4/12

Stongaxe, I myself do not care that a group of people go around speaking gibberish. If they like to do that, great. If it makes them feel good and holy, great. But when someone teaches that if a person does not do tongues they are not saved, then I have to answer. Because that is wrong teaching. People can jump up and down, screem and shout, fall on their faces, it matters not to me. They are happy doing that, why make them mad. But if they want to say it is a gift of the Spirit they better proof it, and they cannot. God is not going to shout out loud, "Yes it is My gift, please believer him/her" Sorry, that is not going to happen. Even satan will not shout out loud it is his gift. He wants to keep us blind.
---Mark_V. on 6/4/12

Tongues are for a sign AND to unbelievers,.

Also, unbelievers were believing Jews in Acts who were didn't believe the Gentiles were included in the promise of the Holy Spirit/salvation Peter certainly was a believer however....

Acts 10:
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 15 recap on this is GREAT!
---kathr4453 on 6/3/12

Strongaxe, you said,
"There are still obscure places where isolated groups speak languages unknown outside their groups."
Very true. I believe if God wants to bring His word there, and you or anyone else were there, God would give you gift of tongues, so you could as (v.11) "speak the wonderful works of God." Those cases are rare.
In Pentacost (Acts 2:1-13), they were languages ( 1 Cor. 14:1-25:) not ecstatic utterances. These languages given by the Spirit were a sign of judment to unbeliving Israel (1 Cor. 14:21,22). They also showed that from then on God's people would come from all nations, and marked the transition from Israel to the Church. Tongues speaking occurs only twice more in (Acts 10:46) 19:6).
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12


You said: Gift of languages no longer needed. Teachers teach languages to bring the gospel to people in other countries. Tongues is languages.

How are things different now than 2000 years ago? There are still obscure places where isolated groups speak languages unknown outside their groups.

Besides, Acts 2:1-12 was specifically for a sign only, and NOT to assist in spreading the gospel to otherwise unreachable groups. All who heard were JEWS from other countries living in Jerusalem. As such, they could all understand at least Hebrew and/or Aramaic, so they would have understood just fine without tongues - evidenced by the fact they all spoke to each other about it.
---StrongAxe on 6/2/12

MarkV I know from experience tongues between man and God are interpreted by God if we follow the Bible. The Bible says when you speak in tongues pray you can interpret,I've done it at home alone and God answered. God doesn't say only the ones used in the Gift of Tongues because it goes on in Chapter 14:14 If I pray in a tongue my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit but I shall also pray with my mind. Verse 22. Tongues then are a sign,not for beleivers but for unbelievers. verse 39-,and do not forbid speaking in tongues. I'll just add unless you can speak all of the nearly five thousand Living Languages and many other dead ones you don't know if its a language spoken or not. God Bless.
---Darlene_1 on 6/2/12

Darline, I've never denied the work of God. Gift of languages no longer needed. Teachers teach languages to bring the gospel to people in other countries. Tongues is languages.
Gibberish is not a language. No country speaks gibberish.
"In the law it is written" With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people, and yet, for all that, they will not hear Me"

Paul explains that centuries earlier the Lord had predicted that one day He would use men of other tongues, that is, foreigners speaking unknown languages, as a sign to unbelieving Israel, who will not hear Me. These other tonguess are what they knew as the gift of languages, given solely as a sign to unbelieving Israel. (Isa. 28:11,12).
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12

What I read in 1st Corinthians is they were jealous of one another's gifts. It appears many were jealous of those who did speak in tongues.

Paul states at the end, not all speak in tongues, not all have the gift of healing etc. Also stating if one wanted to seek a Gift to seek one of the greater Gifts.

We do see even today a confusion that many believe one must speak in tongues proving their salvation.

This teaching has caused more heartache and confusion to believers. No scripture states tongues is proof of salvation.

However Everyone in the body of Christ IS given a Gift.

If the gifts are not working today, Jesus is not working today and the body of Christ is dead.

MarkV, What is your Gift?
---kathr4453 on 6/2/12

Darline 2: speaking against any denomination which teaches things that are not Scriptural is the most important thing to defend as a Christian, no matter what denomination it is. If it is false, it has to be expose. I don't call you a liar, or anyone else who speaks gibberish. You believe it. So how can you be a liar? But can you proof its coming from God? No. No one understands. No one can interpret. Satanic rituals speak in tongues, pagans speak in tongues, how could anyone authenticate the gibberish they speak comes from God? When many in a church start speaking in tongues, that does not edify the church. It only shows that individuals are displaying something others are not. I call that pride, it helps no one but the one speaking.
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12

Mark V my dear brother,I didn't say you put your spin on all things,I have seen you give good answers before. The problem is you deny a work of God,you call all personal tongues gibberish,which they are not,by doing so you put down and demonize every person who has that experience from God and call them liars by saying they aren't real. There can be pretenders in all areas of of the Gifts and tongues but the Holy Ghost exposes them. When they speak its like a bucket of cold water being thrown over me. I didn't intend to put you down but if you haven't been used in the Prophetic Gifts how can you be an authority on them and how God through the Holy Ghost enables Christians to be used by him in that way. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 6/1/12

Sister Darline, you tell everyone I put my own spin on my answers. I have studied both Corinthians, and God never gives a gift where someone will become prideful or boastful and sin. Gibberish is not a language and since it is not, it cannot be interpreted. In fact, that's what many of the Corinthians were doing. Many did not have the gift but spoke Gibberish "Tongue" singular. And were going around boasting. Exactly what you said. But there was contention between the members of the Corinthian Church, they were in great sin and abusing the gifts of the Spirit. That is why Chapter 13 concerning Love was introduced. What was missing in Corinth was Love. And do you know who is Love? Christ. If Christ is missing, the gifts are counterfeit.
---Mark_V. on 6/1/12

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MarkV I think I had better explain what I was talking about. Yes you gave a verse but put your own spin on what was happening. The reason the tongues were of all those different languages weren't so they could hear the gospel. What God was showing at that time to everyone present was how people received the Gift of the Holy Ghost with tongues and was all about the new Gift and the power of God moving in those who received the Gift. It was all about the empowerment,Acts 1:8"you shall receive power after the Holy Ghost comes upon you". That empowerment did empower them all to be God's witnesses throughout the lands even to the ends of the earth,same verse Acts 1:8,but at that point in time its was about the Gift and power. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/31/12

MarkV My dear brother-in-Christ,with all respect to you,there is no verse anywhere in the Bible that says what you wrote about tongues in your last post on the 5/31/12. The Bible also doesn't have orders from God for tongues to stop,or only be for that time. I am always open to learn anything that can be shown in the Word of God,the Bible,Chapter and Verse,but I don't accept anything I can't see there. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/31/12

Strongaxe, let me explained it more clearly. The Tongues, Plural, given by the Holy Spirit in Scripture were for man to introduce the gospel to people from other nations who spoke differently. And can be found in (Acts 2:1-12). The tongues today, are not of the Holy Spirit but of man learning how to speak in another language. The one spoken today, the speaker does know what he is saying. In Scripture the tongues spoken by believers were not known by the speaker. Someone had to interpret what he was saying.

And yes Darline, when I spoke of angels I was referring to (1 Cor. 13:1). Chapter 13, was written between 12-14 because the Corinthians were abusing the gift. If your read 12 and 14 you will know the problem going on at Corinth.
---Mark_V. on 5/31/12

Mark V here is where it speaks of angel's tongues, 1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels,but have not love,I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/30/12

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It is not a matter of "learning" tongues. Tongues are "as the spirit gives utterance" (Acts 2:4)- they are not products of the human mind. However, tongues are described as "tongues of men and angels". Tongues of men are spoken by men - and were subject to the curse of confusion of languages brought on by Nimrod. Tongues of angels are spoken by angels, and not understood by men. Of course, whenever angels want to speak to men, they speak men's languages to men, so they will be understood.
---StrongAxe on 5/30/12

Strongaxe, tongues, plural is real languages. Angels talked in human language to individuals. Tongues, languages was established in (Acts 2:4-12). Tongues of men is human language. The Corinthians prized so highly, and abused so greatly, and counterfeited so disastrously. God gave the ability to speak in a language not known to the speaker, as a sign with limited function (Cor. 14:1-33). There is no biblical teaching of any special angelic language that people could learn to speak. In N. T. times rites honoring the pagan deities, Cybele, Barcchus, and Dionysius included "estatic noises" accompanied by gongs, cymbals, and trumpets. So unless tongues was done in love, it was no better than the gibberish of pagan ritual.
---Mark_V. on 5/30/12


Those are all examples of one-time blessings of God upon a person, NOT that person receiving a divine grace to be able to continue to give that same blessing to others.

Similarly, praying for God to heal you (and then recovering) is NOT the same as having the "gift of healing", which allows you to heal others.


"Tongues of men and angels" are mentioned. How can one distinguish "tongues of angels" from gibberish? However, I do agree that, along with many other gifts of God, there are counterfeits to distract from the genuine.

Also, 1 Co 13:10 mentions "that which is perfect" but doesn't say what that is.
---StrongAxe on 5/29/12

Let's make this clear, not by what I know, but what scripture says..
"...The evidence of speaking in tongues edifies the saint..." -Frank on 5/28/12
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not
==Clearly the opposite, yet Frank denis this, and says
"That's what I said."-Frank on 5/29/12
He is either deceiving himself or a liar.
And again:
"the gift of prophesying in tongues edifies the church."-Frank on 5/28/12
1Cor 14:5 says that the prophecy edifies the church thru interpretation, which cancels the need for tongues to begin with...
verse 6 and following clarifies better...
---micha9344 on 5/29/12

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\\That ministry ceased. God can still give the gift to someone, if He wants to save someone from another nation who doesn't understand our language.\\

This has happened in fairly modern times in Russian Orthodoxy, which proves that the REAL gift of tongues didn't cease.

\\ Today as believers we can learn Russian, and go to Russia and speak the gospel.\\

Russia has had the Gospel since 988.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/29/12

Frank, if you know now how to speak in "Tongues" another language, it is because you have studied by someone or someway how to speak other languages. It does not come from the Holy Spirit, maybe by someone who the Spirit moved to teach you. Yet, if you are speaking in a "Tongue" singular, you speak "gibberish" that's is a fake tongue. No one understands you and no one can interpret gibberish, since gibberish is not a real language. You can speak gibberish, but you only impress yourself and your friends. Now the gift of prophecy, if someone prophesies today, it is not coming from God unless it comes from God's Word the Bible. If it does not, it comes from him. The Bible closed. No more new revelation.
---Mark_V. on 5/29/12

Sag...Could you please give a scripture that speaks of that "gift of prosperity" because I can't find it. Thanks.
---KarenD on 5/28/12

3 John 1:2 -- "Beloved, I Pray That You May Prosper In All Things . . . "

Psalm 23:1 -- "The Lord Is My Shepherd, I Shall Not Want"

1 Timothy 6:17 -- ". . . The Living God . . . Gives Us Richly All Things To Enjoy"

I believe that it all comes down to the SKILLS that God gives a person.

Prosperity involves: (1) Good Money Management, Saving, Investing, etc. (2) Good Time Management. (3) Good "People Skills" for making money-making deals (4) Other skills.

Maybe I just don't have the SKILLS to become Prosperous.
---Sag on 5/29/12

Strongaxe, in the Church age, two kinds of tongues were spoken, Tongue, singular and tongues, plural. Singular is a fake, gibberish. Plural were languages. The ministry of the Spirit at Pentacost was so that believers could witness to all nations the gospel. And tongues were languages that could be spoken so that others from another country could understand. That ministry ceased. God can still give the gift to someone, if He wants to save someone from another nation who doesn't understand our language. God will gift someone to speak the gospel in their language. Today as believers we can learn Russian, and go to Russia and speak the gospel. If we spoke Russian at our Church, we would need an interpretor so that our congregation could understand.
---Mark_V. on 5/29/12

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1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
--It is the interpretation that edifies the church, not the speaking in tongues (different languages).
1 Corinthians 14:22a Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not...
---not for the believer (saint)?
I guess we have a choice to make...believe Frank or believe scripture....

That's what I said.
It seems the arrogant know it all attitudes are still alive here impressing only those who have them.
Pretty sad.
---Frank on 5/29/12

markv, you are absolutely correct in your statement about tongues. I admire your stand for our Savior.
---shira4368 on 5/28/12

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
--It is the interpretation that edifies the church, not the speaking in tongues (different languages).
1 Corinthians 14:22a Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not...
---not for the believer (saint)?
I guess we have a choice to make...believe Frank or believe scripture....
---micha9344 on 5/28/12

You obviously don't know the difference.
The evidence of speaking in tongues edifies the saint and the gift of prophesying in tongues edifies the church.
As for your remarks about denomination, a kingdom divided will fall. Denominations are division.
I am non-denominational.
I have nothing: Believe what you wish. The Lord said Judge not lest ye be judged.
I shared the truth and am through with the foolishness of these who speak of that which they understand not. Which is obvious to those who have the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Two things rile the devil and evil spirits. The blood and the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues whereby the Lord may reveal his word more clearly.
---Frank on 5/28/12

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There are two different kinds of tongues mentioned in the New Testamtent:

1) Public tongues (which required interpretation). These were sometimes real languages ("languages of men") that others could understand, as in Acts 2. Sometimes they were "languages of angels" that could not be understood without an interpreter
2) Private prayer in tongues. These were not interpreted, and were the spirit praying, while the intellect did not understand.
---StrongAxe on 5/28/12

Sag...Could you please give a scripture that speaks of that "gift of prosperity" because I can't find it. Thanks.
---KarenD on 5/28/12

\\Cluny I didn't admit I need no "stinkin evidence",what I said is I should never even try to prove tongues are from God.\\

Are you saying that you are unable to prove it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/28/12

Frank, people are been change every day by God. All you have to do is look the the changes in many people. The need for gifts during the Apostolic age was very critical since there was no New Testament. People only had the Old Testament. People were empowered then because God tells us so. We have a complete Bible. There is no need for tongues or special prophets. Those ended just as (1 Cor. 13:8-10). Now, you and others can pretend all you want, but there is no proof that when you speak in tongues comes from God or that it is any kind of language, or that it can produce any kind of power other then pride. It proofs you want people to believe you have something special that other believers don't have. The Corinthians did the very same thing.
---Mark_V. on 5/28/12

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Frank thank you,its very kind of you to say I am right in what I posted. No matter how much we know each other is right and in our hearts and spirits that we are only being a willing vessel for God to use as he deems right according to His will for each of us,it is very useless to try to share our hearts and Spiritual knowledge because some have hardened their minds to understanding. The best thing we can do is pray for them and continue to love them and forget about them wanting proof,as I said they need to go to God for it not other people. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/28/12

Cluny I didn't admit I need no "stinkin evidence",what I said is I should never even try to prove tongues are from God. In life it is foolishness to meddle in another persons business and in Spiritual life it's equally fruitless to try to prove what is God's business. All things pertaining to God and His move in His children,His Gifts,tongues can be proven much better by Him. Tongues,Gifts of God aren't meant to change us they are Ministry Gifts which gives us empowerment to do God's work Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the HS comes on you,and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem. The Holy Ghost is meant to be our comforter,teacher,and empowerer. You spoke in tongues,you still can,go to God for your answer.
---Darlene_1 on 5/28/12

Frank, you say,

"Those of us who have the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues not need to offer up evidence.".

Because you have none, only your word, and the word of others in your demonination. We know the Bible tells us that tongues were spoken as languages during the early Church age when there was no New Testament, and we know they are true because God told us through His Word. Now you are saying that tongues are true because you say so. You have no way of authenticating it is coming from God, satan, or just from your need to use something written in scripture. You can not even proof tongues edify's the Church, since you know not who's saved and who is not. You have nothing.
---Mark_V. on 5/28/12

Darlene is correct in what she has posted.
The Lord told Thomas that he believed because he had seen BUT blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed.
The Spirit communes with the Lord and the Lord tells the Spirit what to reveal. Truth and not that which comes from the mind and spirit of man nor that of an uncircumcised heart.
Paul even wrote that the Spirit knows what to pray for when we do not. But believe what you wish.
---Frank on 5/28/12

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3 John 1:2 -- "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth"

I've actually gotten into trouble discussing the very things that KarenD asked about.

My contribution to a Bible study discussion was that God DECIDES whom the Holy Spirit delivers the gift of Healing to. Same goes for whom the Holy Spirit delivers the gift of Prosperity to. And so on for ALL Spiritual Gifts.

Some of the other participants believed that some gifts of the are not working today and that what I said was blasphemy. Nope!

God decides "who gets what gifts". And then we decide whether to put those gifts to use or let those gifts stay dormant within us.
---Sag on 5/28/12

I passed through the Pentecostal movement, spoke in tongues, and it didn't change me one bit, so don't accuse me of "not knowing what I don't have."

I did not accuse you of what you do not have sir.
Guilty conscience maybe?
Those who truly have the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in an unknown tongue as the Spirit gives utterance know what they have.
Those who truly love the Lord and cherish such a gift will indeed be changed as it is written When the Gentiles which have not the law do by nature the things contained in the law these having not the law become a law unto themselves. The law being written in their hearts and minds.
---Frank on 5/28/12


Unfortunately, while some have genuine gifts, there are others who are deluded into believing they have them and instead merely have fake psychological substitutes.

One incident I personally experienced: a very new (and overly zealous) convert insisted on praying for me. He put his hand on my forehead, started praying in tongues, and was expecting me to fall down "under the power". That wasn't going to happen - instead, if I didn't move my foot back, I would have fallen down due to basic laws of balance. That was not the Power of the Spirit, but mere physics.

I have also been to services where people DID fall like bowling pins, and I had trouble walking, so I am not being totally skeptical here.
---StrongAxe on 5/28/12

In other words, neither Darlene nor Frank can prove their point, because they admit they don't need no stinkin' evidence.

I passed through the Pentecostal movement, spoke in tongues, and it didn't change me one bit, so don't accuse me of "not knowing what I don't have."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/27/12

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aka that's an interesting point. Perhaps some of us become so used to righteous people living by the Spirit and producing fruits of the Spirit we don't recognize the importance of the fruits of the Spirit as much as we need to. Our Guidebook for living says,Galatians 5:22,25 But the fruit of the Spirit is love,peace,patience,kindness,goodness,faithfulness,gentleness,and self control. Since we live by the Spirit,let us keep in step with the Spirit. Christians need to do everything they can,prayer,praise,Bible study to draw closer and closer to God that they never forget to walk in step with the Spirit.
---Darlene_1 on 5/27/12

Darlene, it is increasingly hard to properly communicate in this world (not that it was ever easy)... especially considering this format.

my position is that the fruit of the Spirit is not given the air time that "gifts" of the spirit are.

there will always be debate on the gifts, but there is never a debate on the fruit. what jesus produces in us and through us is what matters.

personally, i stay away from thinking on the gifts . they will come as the Lord leads.

Blessings to you.
---aka on 5/27/12

Cluny those who believe and are moved/enabled by the Holy Ghost to speak in other or unknown tongues should never even try to prove they are really from God. If any one wants to find out they can go in their prayer closet and ask God to fill them with the Gift of the Holy Ghost with tongues,I'm not implying one doesn't have the Holy Spirit already. He doesn't always answer right away but He does answer when He is ready and we have to be also,I ask at 11 years old but didn't receive until I was 22. Ask and you receive,seek and you shall find. God is no respecter of persons what he gives is for all,one only needs to believe,seek,and receive. Jude verse 20 But dear friends,build yourselves up in your most holy faith,and pray in the Holy Spirit.
---Darlene_1 on 5/27/12

Those of us who have the baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance do not need to offer up evidence.
Oddly, those who speak against it always seem to be those who do not have it.
You can not know that which you do not have. It's the equivalent of a janitor explaining brain surgery or a brain surgeon explaining janitorial duties when neither have experienced the other's world.
No offense but too many speak about what they don't have and run the risk of teaching contrary to the word or leading others astray.
---Frank on 5/27/12

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Darlene 1, many many times I have come across people who say they have the gift of the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues. They will qoute what is written in Mark 16:17, but they avoid what is written in Mark 16:18, even though it is part of the same sentence.?

Why is it when I ask them to show evidence of having the gift of having the Holy Spirit by doing what is written in Mark 16:18, and Luke 10:19, they all scatter like dogs who had their tails cut off?

Why is this, if they have the gifts of the Holy Spirit as they claim to have, and if all of these gifts still apply today?

Darlene 1, have you ever studied what is written 2 Corinthians 11 Chapter Eleven, and 2 Peter Chapter Two?
---Rob on 5/27/12


Since specific details in the Bible about tongues are fairly limited, it would be hard to prove that modern glossolalia is the same as the Biblical gift, but it would be equally hard to prove that it isn't.
---StrongAxe on 5/27/12

\\"The only place where tongues and the Gifts of the Spirit are not in operation today is where there are nonbelievers.".\\

Darlene, what has not yet been proven is if the meaningless babbling called glossolalia is indeed the same as the Biblical gift of tongues.

The only ones who claim it is are its devotees, but they offer no evidence.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/27/12

aka I'm sorry I evidently didn't make myself clear. I am speaking only about people in churches,denominations and the Gifts of the Spirit not the fruit. Mark V Sorry but I did not mean unbelievers in Christ,I merely meant people who didn't believe in those Gifts or tongues therefore I cut no one off. I've never judged the salvation of another person whatever they believe,that's up to God. With all respect tongues haven't ceased,all the Gifts are still in operation,and the only prophecies that have failed are the ones God didn't give in the first place. The nonbelievers simply don't believe in that kind of move of God and God is a gentleman he never forces a vessel to serve in a manner he doesn't believe in. Our choices are between us and God.
---Darlene_1 on 5/27/12

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Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is giving Satan the recognition for the Manifestations that the Holy Spirit is actually producing. The Pharisees were guilty of blasphemying the Holy Spirit because they accused YAHUSHUA (JESUS) of performing His Miracles by the "power of Satan" rather then acknowledging that it was really from the Holy Spirit of GOD. To just dogmatically state that "GOD does not operate the Gifts of the Holy Spirit" would be a kind of blasphemying of the Holy Spirit because it is denying the Works that the Holy Spirit IS doing as not really even happening at all. It's a direct denial of the Holy Spirit's Presence, Power and Activity.
---Gordon on 5/27/12

The only place where tongues and the Gifts of the Spirit are not in operation today is where there are nonbelievers.
---Darlene_1 on 5/26/12

in a homeless shelter, i do not see the usual claimed gifts of the spirit (tongues and prophecy) unless it comes from a homeless person.

when i see those served a meal in a homeless shelter, i see the Lord serving fruit of the spirit to those serving others. then, those are shared with the homeless and other "non-believers".

an endless meal.
---aka on 5/26/12


Yes, it is entirely possible, if the doctrine over which they disagree is not one that God considers very important. There is a lot of disagreement about the nature of the godhead, and many different theories - something that could not possibly have happened if the Bible was itself crystal clear on the subject. Perhaps if God had considered it an important subject, then Jesus or the Apostles would have discussed the subject in detail and at length - but they didn't, other than making occasional comments in passing.

Paul and Mark were both apostles who had such severe personal disagreements that they had to travel in separate directions - yet that didn't stop them from both being divinely-appointed apostles.
---StrongAxe on 5/27/12

Darline, you say,

"The only place where tongues and the Gifts of the Spirit are not in operation today is where there are nonbelievers.".

you are wrong. You are cutting everyone off if he does not speak in tongues.
"Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail, whether there is tongues, they will cease, Where their is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophecy in part."
Tongues have ceased. Prophecies, and knowledge have fail. These is indicated by the Grk. verb forms used. They are said to ceased and "be abolished." (v. 9,10) indicate that what will abolish knowledge and prophecy is that which is perfect (Scripture).
---Mark_V. on 5/27/12

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Blaspheme,to speak of God or something scared in an irreverent or impious way. Evil-speaking,reproach,to revile God or something scared. I would think that includes Christ and the Holy Ghost. Blasphemy any word or profane act,utterance,or writing concerning God. Any word or deed meant to dishonor or revile the being or work of God. Revile to denounce with abusive words,rail against. Since the Holy Ghost is God and his work,which includes tongues,is of God,since the Gifts of the Spirit were given to minister to the Body of Christ,the church,it seems a very dangerous thing to speak against any or all of them. The only place where tongues and the Gifts of the Spirit are not in operation today is where there are nonbelievers.
---Darlene_1 on 5/26/12

The important thing with this, that, or the other sign is what DOCTRINE comes with it.

For example, Trinitarian Pentecostals confess that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three PERSONS in one God.

OTOH, Oneness Pentecostals (who are heretical Sabellian Modalists) say that God is sometimes father, sometimes son, and sometimes holy spirit. (Note that this doctrine traps God in time.)

Both speak in tongues.

With such radically different doctrines, can it really be the Holy Spirit making adherents in BOTH groups speak in tongues?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/25/12

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail, whether there be tongues, they shall cease, whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
---aka on 5/25/12

Karen, I believe that Craig and trey are correct. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit cannot be commited by a genuine believer, it is impossible. Craig touched on that point.
Whenever a someone deliberately and disrespectfully slanders the person and ministry of the Holy Spirit, in pointing to the Lordship and redemption of Jesus Christ, he completely negates and forfeits any possibility of present or future forgiveness of sin (Matt. 12:31) "because he has wholly rejected the only basis of God's salvation" The Pharisees could not deny the reality of what the Holy Spirit had done through Him, so they attributed to satan a work that they knew was of God (Matt. 12:24: Mark 3:22).
---Mark_V. on 5/26/12

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aka...Scripture, please!
---KarenD on 5/25/12

I only see two things that are mentioned that disqualify a man from eternal life.

Rejecting Jesus Christ and "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost".

The example we are given was the Pharisees claiming basically that Jesus was of the devil. Which IS rejecting that He is the great "I AM" and that He has come in the flesh. I dont think blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is something that can be committed by a believer in Christ.

As my pastor once told me with a smile on his face "Son, just the fact that you're worried about what this sin is, tells me that you havent committed it!"
---CraigA on 5/25/12

If so, Paul bordered on blasphemy.
---aka on 5/24/12

KarenD, I don't think it's blasphemy, I think it's stupidity.
By the way, I believe tongues were for a sign to the Jews that Christianity is real and that Christ is real!
1Co1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
---trey on 5/24/12

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So when a Baptist preacher says that tongues is of the devil, is that blashphemy?
---KarenD on 5/24/12

It depends on what type of tongues the pastor is talking about. Some denominations make the HS way to important, where they say that if you are a christian you must have the gift of tongues, while others like many baptist treat the HS like the crazy, weird uncle which is not biblical either. I think this is more limiting of the HS than blasphemy. Because of the amount of false information and false expectations many people (especially Baptist) fear tongues. You cannot be a christians and blasphemy the HS because christianty is who you are not what you do.
---Scott1 on 5/25/12

Not quite, but if someone says, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are carnal or from the devil, then that would be blasphemy. Blasphemy is dissing or disgracing that which is holy and from God.
---Eloy on 5/25/12

So when a Baptist preacher says that tongues is of the devil, is that blashphemy?
---KarenD on 5/24/12

Karen, I'm happy this is not something troubling you personally. I never assume someone is blaspheming unless they are making it obvious.
---Catholicus on 5/24/12

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Cluny, awesome! I did not know that until you posted and so I went searching and you are so right!
Isaiah 11 lists them too!
excuse my excitement. I love it when God shows me something new!
---ginger on 5/24/12

The Bible actually gives two lists of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 5/24/12

Even if the gifts were not working outwardly, today, still the ministry of the gifts of Jesus is continuing now. His miracles, for example, are now effecting people, today. Also, any action of a gift of the Holy Spirit ministers grace, I offer, based on 1 Peter 4:9-10. We still need howsoever God ministers His grace deeper than the outward show of a spiritual gift.

Ones say that if you really blasphemed the Holy Spirit, you would be so deeply ruined that you could care less, now, if you did. But ones are trying to think they did so they can suppose they are no longer accountable for their actions. I would not trust this. If you're not sure, trust Jesus who knows, see what He does with you (c:
---willie_c: on 5/24/12

Catholicus...I'm not worried about myself. It is a question I have been asking for those who keep saying this. I believe the gifts never stopped.
---KarenD on 5/24/12

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Is it blasphemy of the Holy Spirit if you say that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not working today?
---KarenD on 5/23/12

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mark 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit

I think it is different to say that the gifts are not working, than to see the gifts at work and claim that they are not of God, but of satan.

Based on that, i would say it isnot blasphemy to say it is not working.
---francis on 5/24/12

I do not know if it is blasphemy or not. I do believe it is a lie of the Enemy.
---Trish on 5/24/12

Karen, if you are just expressing an opinion with no intent to hold the Holy Spirit in contempt. I wouldn't worry that you were being blasphemous.
---Catholicus on 5/24/12

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