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Is Satan A Fallen Angel

Is Satan a fallen angel?

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//Phil, I agree with everything you said with the exception that Satan is not an angel//...MarkV

How do you gather that after reading Ezekiel 28?
---Unknown1 on 7/7/12

Phil, I agree with everything you said with the exception that Satan is not an angel. Angels are a special order of created beings. Unlike humans, they are purely spirit beings (Psa. 104:4" Heb. 1:14). However, they have power to become visible in the semblance of human form (Gen. 19:1-22: 1 kings 19:5-8: 2 kings 1:3: Acts 12:7-9:). Wisdom and strength are chief attributes of the angelic order (2 Sam. 14:20: Psa. 103:20). They belong to the realm of the spiritual and supernatural and are very numerous (Psa. 68:17: Matt. 26:53: Heb. 12:22: Rev. 5:11) and they are somtimes called "sons of God" (Gen. 6:2: Job 1:6: 2:1).
---Mark_V. on 7/7/12

Satan is a specific being.
Jesus calling Peter Satan is a reference to a character of the being called Satan.
If not, Einstein, tell me how it really is.
Even if you knew the mind of Jesus, Freud, Satan would still be a specific being.
And tell us again how it all works, Newton.
Peter was showing characteristics of Satan, not being Satan himself.
Not only did He tell Peter to step back because "thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." but the reason also applies to why Jesus called Peter Satan.
You are definitely not Einstein, Freud, nor Newton, yet you may show characterisitcs of them.
It was derogatory, a rebuke..
---micha9344 on 7/7/12

Let us not deny the Lord His place as The truth-speaker. Of Satan, He says this:
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
He was created that way, from the beginning, he did not fall from anywhere. He is not an "angel". He is the god, deity, of this world, the prince of the power of the air. Lucifer is not a name in any translation. It is an addition by men to the
Word of God.
---Phil on 7/7/12

Legends 2: I want to apologize for saying, get with the program. I read it after I send it and it didn't sound good. I was talking to you as if you were face to face with me and you were my friend. It was not meant to be offensive. Please forgive me, you always answer with a kind heart. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 7/7/12

Legends, I believe it is you who is speculating. You are suggesting that when Jesus answered Peter, that Peter was satan. Because He answered Peter. You want to believe Satan is not fallen, so why is he called the "Adversary"? Why is he the father of lies? Or why is he called the accuser or the beguiling serpent if he is not fallen? That is nonsense Legends. He is oppose to the Lord, does that mean he is not fallen? You want to crown him go for it. I sure don't. Where do you think he was fallen from? from his town, or city? Come on Legends. Fallen to the world, where He is in charge of the sons of disobedience. The children of wrath. Who do his desires. Get with the program.
---Mark_V. on 7/6/12

/in the case of Peter in (Matt. 16:23) Jesus did not in anyway believe He was talking to satan, or that the devil was present/MarkV

That's speculative and presumptuous. And the only way it's correct is if there actually is a fallen angel that's known as satan.
Otherwise I'm correct in stating that Middle-eastern people including Jesus have no concept of a fallen angel being satan. Their concept of SATAN is this: anything and anyone that presents opposition IS SATAN. This includes:
-PEOPLE(Peter, oppositional Jews 1Thess2:18)
-Enemy nations(satan caused David to needlessly number Israel in 1 Chronicle21)
-DEATH is the last enemy! NOT a fallen angel
---Legends on 7/6/12

Legends, in the case of Peter in (Matt. 16:23) Jesus did not in anyway believe He was talking to satan, or that the devil was present. Peter, took him aside privately and began to rebuke Christ. saying "this should not happen to You" Anyone opposing the Atonement is a mouthpiece for Satan. Satan was not literally present. Jesus death was part of God's sovereign plan (Acts 2:23: 4:27,28). "It pleased the Lord to bruise Him" (Isa. 53:10). Christ had come with the express purpose of dying as an atonement fo sin (John 12:27). And those who would thwart His mission were doing Satan's work.
In the case of (Matt. 4:10) Satan was literally present.
---Mark_V. on 7/5/12

Legends 2: sorry I addressed Micha.

"Sorry Micha."

Legends, I already knew you did not believe that Lucifer is Satan. I heard you say that about a year ago or so.
It really does not matter if you want to call him Lucifer or not. He is the devil, Satan, he is fallen, he is an angelic creature who before the creation of the the human race rebelled against God, and is called by many names, the prince of Darkness, the prince of the power of the air, the father of lies, the accuser, and the beguiling serpent. He is not Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, holy, are righteous, but a created creature limited in his work, and is a member of the Divine Council. The sons of God and Satan are subservient to God.
---Mark_V. on 7/5/12

BEST EXAMPLE: In Jesus' presence, Peter spoke adversarial words. Immediately Jesus said TO PETER, "Get thee(Peter) behind me satan." ---Legends on 7/4/12

Exactly. Not knowing where he is or how he operates is why a defeated foe can be blamed for so much havoc.
---blogger5340 on 7/5/12

Mark, I think you meant to address me not Micha since I posted that particular blog.
In response, I would agree with you if I thought there existed any biblical evidence that when the prophets/apostles wrote the word "satan", they had in mind a former angel named lucifer. Since I see no evidence that been presented that's NOT a circular argument based on four or five out of context scriptures that are smashed together in order to prove a bad doctrine.
BEST EXAMPLE: In Jesus' presence, Peter spoke adversarial words. Immediately Jesus said TO PETER, "Get thee(Peter) behind me satan."
---Legends on 7/4/12

Micha, you said,
"1 Simple. When you speak adversarial words in front of God who is everywhere. You bring satan in the presence of God among the gatherers"

Micha, that is not possible because though God is Omnipresent "everywhere", Satan is not. If you are talking about people in the world that is impossible for Satan to be there every time someone speaks to God. God is everywhere not Satan.
Also, what purpose would believers have in the discussions of Job, they cannot make decisions on what God and Satan talked about. Unless you convince me otherwise, that is my conclusion. I would agree with you if you can show me with Scripture that you are right.
---Mark_V. on 7/3/12

You seem to be hung on "come to", requiring it to be only the location of "before the throne", but it does not say this. Remember, it is "not good to speculate what is not there in the first place."
The word "to" here is not a preposition as in "to the throne", but is part of an infinitive adverb. Why did they come?..."to present themselves before the Lord."
Now I have shown you that in the other passages they "came " also to "present themselves before the Lord" and they didn't need to be in Heaven to do so.
To say these were angels and it must be in Heaven and since it is in Heaven they must be angels is circular reasoning.
---micha9344 on 7/3/12

Q)Why would it be believers coming with Satan to discuss the doings of Job?
A)God brought up the subject of Job's "doings" after Job continually said in the presence of God, "MAYBE my sons have sinned..."
Q)Why did Satan come among the sons of God?
A) See #1
Simple. When you speak adversarial words in front of God who is everywhere. You bring satan in the presence of God among the gatherers. That's what Job did. He admitted it at the end of the book.

---Legends on 7/3/12

Micha 3: in the passages you put down, the people presented themselves before the Lord, but they did not come as to a location. So those passages refer to the Omnipresence of God who is everywhere. We also present ourselves before God, in the physical, because we cannot go to the Throne, but Spiritually we can go to the Throne of God to discuss matters with Him, but we do that through the Lord Jesus Christ who is our Mediator. Without Him we cannot go spiritually to the throne of God.
---Mark_V. on 7/3/12

Micha 4: You said I say heaven because I believe they were angels.
You are correct. All one has to do ask ourselves a few questions'
1. Why would it be believers coming with Satan to discuss the doings of Job?
2. Why did Satan come among the sons of God?
3. Why would God ask Satan "from where do you come"? If God was in His Omnipresence, He would not ask that question. Since God is everywhere. By asking, God had to be Ruling from the Throne if a location is indicated.
4. Why was there no mention of the sons of God in the deciding argument between God and Satan?
Conclusion: The sons of God were together with Satan. And who is with Satan, the fallen angels.
I cannot say that about (Gen. 6:4).
---Mark_V. on 7/3/12

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Micha, let me clear something up so that there is no mistake about the real Truth. (Gen. 6:4) the sons of God, There are four theories, I choose to say angels, not enough proof the reason there is four theories. The sons of God in Job, we don't have information enough to say they were in heaven, earth, or in some other Galaxy. There is two theories, and I choose Heaven. In Jude the angels kept in chains, we are not given enough information when they sinned in history, I believe it was in (Gen. 6:4) but not enough evidence to say it is Truth. In all three cases no one knows because there is not enough evidence on any of the three cases. Not good to speculate what is not there in the first place.
---Mark_V. on 7/2/12

Micha 2: concerning the sons of God in (Job 1:6) the context teaches exactly what I said,
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord," Simply put, God never goes and presents Himself to satan or his demons, they come to Him. And when a location is use by the writers of Scripture concerning God, it is on His throne. I do not think there should be an argument on this point. If they came to present themselves before God it is because God is Ruling from His Throne. He hold counsel there with the angels. In a court room setting Satan the adversary usually stood to the right of the accused. This location is reported when satan in heaven accused Joshua the High-Priest (Zech 3:1).
---Mark_V. on 7/2/12

Yes, verily, let us confirm our foundation is Christ and continue.
You say, to my understanding, that whoever they were must have come to the throne of God to present themselves, which is heaven, concluding that the "sons of God" must be angels because of this.
But in Job 1 and 2, it does not say they came to God.
They came just as Israel came in Jos 24 and 1Sa 10, they gathered together. Also the Gentiles of Acts 10 "came together"(v27) and were all "present before God"(v33).
You add the throne just because of your insistence of the "sons of God" being angels, yet many have "come" or "gathered" to "present themselves before the Lord" in many "locations."
---micha9344 on 7/2/12

Legends, you did not read my answer correctly or maybe I did not explain it better. I said what you said concerning the context in Job. It was God speaking to satan and the Sons of God. Not the Mediator Jesus Christ. Who speaks for God on earth in the New Testament in His humanity, and in the Old Testament as the Angel of the Lord, and sometimes manifest Himself as a man. Prophets in Scripture also spoke for God.
---Mark_V. on 7/2/12

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/If the sons of God are humans, they could not communicate with God. Only through Christ Jesus. In the passages in Job, Jesus Christ is not mention/MarkV

"The Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, AND SAID, who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?" J-O-B 38:1,2

"The Lord answered Job, AND SAID, shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him?" J-O-B 40:1,2

"go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering, and my servant Job shall pray for you: for HIM WILL I ACCEPT" J-O-B 42:8

No prophets to mediate. No one speaking in the name of Jesus for hundreds/thousands of yrs to come.
Contrary to your blog post, God COMMUNICATED with Job.
---Legends on 7/1/12

A son of God, is not an angel of God: these are two completely different and distinct kinds of beings. I am a son from God, and I have seen angels with feathers, we are not the same. My feet abide upon the earth although I can be translated, and an angels feet abide up in heaven and they fly around in up in the sky usually not seen by mankind.
---Eloy on 7/1/12

brother Micha 3: What is very important also, that whether we believe the sons of God were angels are not is not that important as far as our salvation is concern. But I do believe the angels referred to in Jude 6 are the very same angels who left their proper domain and possessed human forms when the sons of God (angels) possessed men and came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those left their proper domain. And since they are spirit beings, they are reserved in chains, this must be spiritual chains until the judgment of the great day. I believe a great many theologians agree with me on that, yet, to believe otherwise does not change our status with Christ.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/12

Micha 2: As to your question whether the sons of God are angels or not, I believe they are depending on the context. In order for God to communicate with man, He does it through the Mediator, in the Old T. through prophets and through Jesus Christ, when He is presented to man as the Angel of the Lord, or as a man. If the sons of God are humans, they could not communicate with God. Only through Christ Jesus. In the passages in Job, Jesus Christ is not mention in the context.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/12

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brother Micha, what you suggest now is that the Throne of God is not a heavenly location. Look, there is only two ways to look at the passages in Job. Either we use the Omnipresence of God, that He is everywhere so they don't have to come to God, Since He is everywhere, all they have to do is speak and He is there, or that when writers of Scripture indicated they came to God, a location was intented. I for one believe they came to the throne of God. When speaking of location. God never comes to angels or satan, they come to Him. All yeil to Him. He rules from the throne when a location is intented. When God was holding counsel on His Throne the angels came to Him, one spirit volunteered to go as a lying spirit. Whatever you believe is ok by me.
---Mark_V_. on 7/1/12

Micha, Your assesessment is very accurate according to the earlier established context in Job ch1.
"And Job's sons went and feasted in their houses, and SENT and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink WITH THEM. When the days of their feasting were complete, JOB SENT and sanctified them"
In Old English, SENDING for a person is exactly the same as summoning a person to APPEAR IN YOUR PRESENCE.
-Sons of Job SENT for sisters.
-Job SENT for his children to pray over them as THEY PRESENTED THEMSELVES before the Lord. ON EARTH IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD. Happened continually.
Angels aren't mentioned. And satan wasn't identified as a son of God. Satan(adversity, conflict, trouble) came ALSO AMONG the sons of God.
---Legends on 6/30/12

Where does it say the "angels" came to Him?
It does say that "Satan came also among them".
This I understand given that Satan himself can transform...
But as to a given location, this I do not see.
Do I not see it or is it infered into the scripture?
Step back with no presuppositions and see for yourself and then enlighten me on what you see...
I believe you are still under the impression that the "sons of God" must be angels. This presupposition may be clouding your interpretation of these verses. If these are angels, then they would gather in a central heavenly location, but if not the location must be earthly.
---micha9344 on 6/30/12

Brother Micha, you gave the first three verses that do say they presented themselves before God is is true, as we all do now present ourselves before God each day.
The difference is the verses that talk about the sons of God is that they had to come to God, indicating a location, not the Omnipresence of God which indicates He is everywhere. A location is indicated in the others verses and God rules and keeps council on His Heavenly Throne. If they have to come to Him, a location is indicated. God does not come to the angels, they come to Him.
---Mark_V. on 6/30/12

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Jos 24:1 And Joshua gathered...and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers, and they presented themselves before God.
1Sa 10:19b ...Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.
Acts 10:33b ...Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
-The only difference in these verses is the perception of who the "sons of God" are. Yet in the first three verses we see men presenting themselves before God while here on Earth. Omnipresent indeed...
---micha9344 on 6/29/12

This should be simple.
You said the demons in verse 9 were the stars in Rev12:4. You said it. Leaving your peace you still said it.
Since you said it, we should actually read what verse 4 says about these alleged demons.
"and his(THE DRAGON'S) tail drew the third part of the STARS of heaven, and did CAST THEM to the earth."
The reason you're not flat out confirming that you said Satan cast the fallen angels/demons/STARS out of heaven is because you realize it's NOT TRUE.
That good!
What you have not yet realized is the popular interpretation is equally NOT TRUE that says, "the stars IN VERSE 4 are the same as demons(aka fallen angels) incorrectly based on verse 9. WHICH YOU SAID!
---Legends on 6/29/12

Legends, nowhere does it say or have I said the demons were cast down by satan. They were cast down but not by him. They followed him in his rebellion. The only one who could cast them all down was God. Unless you know of someone who cast them out and I have not read about. So please, do not put words down that I did not say, thank you brother, peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 6/29/12

"And (Rev. 12:9) though the angels (who became demons) were cast down from heaven, they still had access to heaven"-MarkV
Mark, You really need to study your blogs. IF YOU ARE CORRECT, the angels you say became demons were cast down BY THE DRAGON. Which means the angels were cast out of heaven by satan.
WHY? Rev12:4 says,
"and his(THE DRAGON'S) tail drew the third part of the STARS of heaven, and did CAST THEM to the earth."
You, like so many others, are errantly mixing scriptures together in order to prove a doctrine that doesn't exist. Stars in 12:4 should never be interpreted as angels from 12:9.
Stars are NEVER symbolic of angels. But covenant people are!
---Legends on 6/29/12

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brother Micha, you might have something that God revealed to you that I have not received yet and welcome any comments you might have. Than you brother, peace
---Mark_V. on 6/29/12

Micha, nice to hear from you. Let me start by saying that God is Spirit and is Omnipresent in His nature. But when the Bible uses the words came to God, or something to that effect, it is indicating location as if God was a man at a certain place. I said that satan and the sons of God had access to heaven and when they came to the Lord, in that case they had to come to the Throne of God, where God holds council when a location is used. Read (1 kings 19-23). Here in Job, God ask satan, as if He didn't know, "From where do you come?" And satan answered,
"From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it" Now satan is at the Throne of God. God rules from the Throne.
---Mark_V. on 6/29/12

MrkV, there is alot of speculation with your statements compared to your references.
One, for example, is the assumption that the meeting place in Job was Heaven, and not on Earth nor even "in the heavens" (space, atmosphere).
There are many more we can discuss... If the Truth leads us to your conclusions, so be it...
---micha9344 on 6/28/12

Legends, there is no dilemma in my answer at all. (Rev. 12:4) is Satan's original rebellion ( Is. 14:12: Ezek. 28:11) which resulted in one-third of the angelic host joining his insurrection and becoming demons. And (Rev. 12:9) though the angels (who became demons) were cast down from heaven, they still had access to heaven (Job 1:6: 2:1) This passages in (Rev. 12:7-9) refers to future events, in the end times, where they will then be denied access, and they will be forever barred from heaven.
---Mark_V. on 6/27/12

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Hope you followed my point about this.
IF your assertion were correct, then the stars cast out WITH the dragon are the same stars that got cast out BY the dragon. NOT TRUE AT ALL!
Proving the existence of fallen angels using Revelation12 verse is simply erroneous.
Again, read your blog then read 12:4 then read 12:9. PLEASE!!!
I have confidence that you will see the flaw!
---Legends on 6/26/12

You misread my blog. Wasn't saying Michael is Satan.
You didn't do as I suggested.
Here's what YOU blogged.
"The stars are the demons, because (v.9) tells us so. (Rev. 12:9) tells us he was cast off together with his angels."
DILEMMA: Stars are scripted in 12:4. Y-O-U incorrectly interpret Stars as DEMONS only because 12:9 says angels were cast out with the dragon.
Your flaw: You've gotta see clearly that 12:4 teaches THE DRAGON(not Michael or anyone else) cast down the stars. BUT, 12:9 teaches the dragon/his aggelos WERE CAST DOWN.
Mark, Stars in v4 can't be THE SAME as fallen angels v9.
Satan can't cast out demons!
---Legends on 6/26/12

Do not be confused, and know who the adversary is. Michael is not satan. Michael the winner is on our side, and satan the defeated loser is on the other side.
---Eloy on 6/26/12

Legends, you gave (Rev. 12:9) and conclude Michael and his angels cast down satan, the dragon, from heaven. Nowhere are we told Michael did that. You are reading more into the context. "but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer, So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world"
Do you see anywhere in those passages that Michael cast the dragon to earth? Michael and his angels prevailed but nowhere are we told that he cast the dragon down from heaven.
---Mark_V. on 6/26/12

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Instead of gagging on a gnat about "33 percent" not meaning the same thing as "one-third" or "a third", quit swallowing a camel by saying, STARS that were cast down by THE DRAGON in Revelation12:4 are the same as the AGGELOS that were CAST OUT BY MICHAEL and his angels in Revelation12:9.
One plus one still equals two. If Michael cast out the stars, then Michael is the Dragon/satan/old serpent.
Read your blog. Then read verse 4 and 9. I think you'll see the dilemma.
---Legends on 6/25/12

Legends, thanks for explaining. I didn't know what was funny. Second, you will not find "33" percent" written in Scripture. You will find the words "a third" in Scripture. Talking about the devil, the dragon, in (Rev. 3-5) we are told,
"And another sign appeared in heaven, behold a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was read to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born" The stars are the demons, because (v.9) tells us so. (Rev. 12:9) tells us he was cast off together with his angels.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/12

As I did your blog, you did mine. I mistook your comments about me as a humorous jab. You mistook my reaction to Micha as something other than a thank-you. No agreement or disagreement was included. Just an ear to hear what a brother had to say about cherubim.
In the meantime, I again direct all to the OLD TESTAMENT verses that the New Testament account about sinning, rebel, fallen angels is BASED on.
3 events in 2Peter: I can turn back and find the FLOOD and the destruction of SODOM/other cities.
What I can't turn back and find is an account of 33% of angels turning against God???
---Legends on 6/19/12

Satan in the beginning was an angel named Heylel that Jesus created, but Heylel became prideful and said in his heart, I will ascend the heavens, above the stars of God I will exalt my throne: I will be likened to the Most High. He persuaded a third of the angels in heaven to follow him in his rebellion against God. And when Jesus saw Heylel's sin, he cast him down to the earth with his coherts as being profane and he was cursed.
---Eloy on 6/18/12

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Legends, I don't understand what was funny. Did I say something that made it funny? Micha mentioned that angels don't have wings and I though you knew that already. It sounded like you were surprised. I never said they had wings. But just because they don't have wings does not mean they are not angels, spirited beings angelic in form, who can masqurated sometimes as humans. And there were many who rebelled against God. They are called demons, fallen angels. Then there is the angels of God, angelic messengers. Who also appear in Biblical history.
---Mark_V. on 6/18/12

Funny MarkV!
Your humor is better than your OLD TESTAMENT biblical evidence of 33.33333% of God's angels being kicked out of Heaven.
Earlier you asked me for proof of my contentions. I direct you to ALL the scriptures in the OT that tells the story about multiples of angels sinning against God.
When the majority of teachers realizes no verse exists, then MAYBE that teaching will be scrutinized properly.
---Legends on 6/17/12

Micha, great explanations you gave. I didn't even think for a minute that Legends believed that angels had wings. But you thought about that and made it very clear, thank you brother.
---Mark_V. on 6/17/12

It's great to have someone who loves to share.
Thanks Micha!
It helps!!!
---Legends on 6/16/12

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Legends, you yourself see the difference between what people call angels and what is proclaimed in the Bible.
Now let us expand upon this...
How do we know angels are winged?
The Bible only proclaims cherebims and seraphims to be winged...nothing is said of the angels(malak, aggelos).
Also, if we are to be like the angels in heaven, do you think we actually gain wings?
Did Enoch?, Elijah?, Christ?
When Christ was transfigured on the mount, did He have wings?
We must conclude that there is a difference between the cherebim, seraphim, and what the Bible calls angels.
You are on the right track, but some more research will reveal the "guardians" and "keepers" from the "messengers."
---micha9344 on 6/16/12

Micha, your BTW strikes me as interesting. I've always thought cherubim meant winged creatures... including angels.
This could mean birds, Taradactiiles(however that's spelled), pigeons etc.
Please... Share your perspective on these particular cherubim or what your studies tell you cherubim are/were?
Sincerely Thx!
---Legends on 6/16/12

There were three beings that God put under their own curses in the garden.
We know that Satan is a being.
We know that Satan is spiritual being.
We know he is able to transform himself.
We know he is vehemently opposed to God.
We know God directs, or at least allows, his actions to continue..for now.
We know he has angels(aggelos) under his authority.
We know that Satan is also called the devil, the serpent of old, the great dragon...
He is only one, but he has a legion that follows him.
They have a place prepared for them.
BTW: God placed guardians (cherebims) at the gate of the garden, not angels (malak, messengers).
---micha9344 on 6/14/12

Legends, you have a lot of ideas but no proof of what you say. What you need to do is get a Word translator, of Greek and Hebrew. Look up the word in each case, the word will be explained to you for each passage and on each book of Scripture. The original writers of Scripture did not make mistakes, but since we have translated the Bible to different languages there is a difference of words. But a good inter liner or word study book will help you. That is about as far as I can go on this. Satan was an angel before man was created, and he fell before Adam sinned. I don't think there is much argument from many. But it is OK if you don't want to believe it. I still love you no matter what.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/12

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"Get behind Me, Satan! YOU are an offense to Me, for YOU are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of MEN(HUMAN BEINGS)"
The "we" that seems to not know that satan can't be human has to include Jesus Himself.
I've said it before! Middle-eastern people who use the term satan are not thinking about an angelic being. In their language they use it as a term for a HUMAN opponent, opposition, adversary, one who brings contradiction, and so on.
That's why Jesus DIRECTLY looked at Peter and identified HIM as satan AFTER Peter contradicted Jesus' destiny.
Jesus DIRECTLY called him Peter after Peter spoke in harmonious agreement, Thou art the Christ, Son of the Living God.
---Legends on 6/13/12

Legends, that is what I said, that,
"Actually my problem is with SOME translators using angel instead of messenger"

That is true. Lets take (Rev. 2:1) "To the angel of the church of Ephesus"
In this case the word angel is literally "messenger." Although it can mean angel and does throughout the book. it cannot refer to angels here because angels are never leaders in the church. Most likely, these messengers are the 7 key elders representing each of those churches.
Now you can believe satan is not a fallen angel, if you want, but we know he is angelic because he is not human, and that he is not for the truth, which makes him fallen since he is an adversary of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 6/12/12

Actually my problem is with SOME translators using angel instead of messenger. Thus leaving many to believe the particular verse in question can only be referring to angels and not human messengers.
Case by case this can be wrong.
In addition: As I've argued, when I read the Bible and see the word satan, I do not believe that neither Jesus, the prophets, apostles nor any original writer of the Bible ever meant A FORMER FALLEN ANGEL when they said or wrote the word.
As I've stressed repeatedly, the word satan means opponent, opposition, adversary.
Peter spoke oppositional words to Jesus. Jesus immediately identified Peter by his opposition... SATAN.
IF Jesus didn't directly call him satan, he didn't directly call him PETER either!
---Legends on 6/11/12

Legends, I think you and I have gone this road before. Your problem is with the word "Messenger" We have human messengers and angelic messengers. Depending on the context. Sometimes an angel is called a messenger, other times he is called an angel depending on the writer. We have to be careful how we use the words in Scripture. When Jesus said to Peter,
"Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offese to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men"
He was not suggesting Peter was Satan, Jesus was suggesting that Peter was being a mouthpiece for Satan. The same holds true for when the word Messenger is mentioned.
---Mark_V. on 6/11/12

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/clear and concise documentation without debate
There remains no debate that Adam and Eve are fallen from their first estate. It doesn't even need addressing obviously.
But to the issue of whether the verses used to back the notion of fallen(sinning) angels, each verse people come up with has severe very debatable flaws. They don't stack up as sound proof at all.
The Bible proves itself. Check the context of each verse being used to back the point.
---Legends on 6/10/12

From the bible .
Satan is a unknown titled son of God.
In Job-when the sons of God assembled together Satan showed up with them.
Both Jesus and Satan are sons of God .
Jesus is known as a "only begotten"son where as Satan is not known to have this title.
---earl on 6/10/12

pt 2
SATAN(opposition) falls like lightning from HEAVEN.
Luke 10:3 Establishes Context: WOLVES are ADVERSARIES of SENT OUT LAMBS.
Luke10:15 ADVERSARIAL CAPERNAUM, exalted to heaven(NOT INVISIBLE THRONE but a prideful HIGH oppositional MINDSET) shall be thrust down. The 70 returned saying EVEN THE DEVILS(HUMAN wolves that opposed us) are subject(THRUST DOWN LIKE YOU SAID 2 VERSES AGO) to us.
(Contextually) Jesus said, I SAW SATAN(human adversaries,wolves,devils) FALL as lightning(which starts in HEAVEN, THE VISIBLE SKY quickly GROUNDED LOW) JUST AS I SAID WOULD HAPPEN 3 VERSES AGO.
HIGH, OPPOSITIONAL, human religious mindsets which refuse to change must be brought DOWN, GROUNDED in the same manner as LIGHTNING.
---Legends on 6/10/12

Angel of Light
2Cor11:13 Establishes Context: FALSE APOSTLES
"Apostle" One who is separated out for the purpose of BEING SENT as a MESSENGER of God with HIS MESSAGE.
transforming themselves into the APOSTLES(ones sent as MESSENGERS) of Christ.
Note, these people were not apostles of Christ but called themselves messengers.
Satan, the adversary similarly transforms himself into a MESSENGER(KING JAMES "ANGEL" but Young's Literal uses the more accurate translated word, MESSENGER) of light.
Same note: Paul is not saying that he is a MESSENGER of light(nor an ANGEL for that matter). His ministers(servants) are not MESSENGERS of light either
---Legends on 6/10/12

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A foolish ADVERSARIAL leader WHO EXALTED HIMSELF opposed Paul's Apostolic message. This FOOL sent out false teachers! Messengers Corinthians were allowing themselves to hear. 2Cor 11:19-20
"You gladly allow fools, seeing you know so much yourselves. You allow if a MAN bring you into bondage, devours you, steals from you, EXALTS HIMSELF, and even smacks you in your face."
All this should sound familiar seeing that it still happens today!
Men who exalt themselves opposing the Gospel are brought low as LAMBS are sent with the message of LOVE.
In Acts, study the episode of Stephen the Lamb and Saul THE WOLF who was knocked off his high horse(Ass) and grounded like lightning!

---Legends on 6/10/12

Legends, we know satan is a fallen angel because he is the Adversary, enemy of God. (2 Cor. 11:14) tells us he transforms himself into an angel of light. If he transforms himself to an angel of light, his an angel of darkness, who has his own angels. (Matt. 25:41) were told about the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. A place prepared already for them. We know satan is fallen also because Jesus said
"I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:18). He has to be an angel because we have God, angelic beings, human beings and animals. (Rev. 12:7-90 Tells us Michael and his angels fought with the dragon (satan) and his angels. That serpent of old called the devil and satan was cast to the earth.
---Mark_V. on 6/10/12

Thank you Mark for your reply.Although the comparrison of "light" and "darkness" is interesting, I would like to get back to my original question, is Satan a "fallen angel", and where does it say this in the bible?
---sanning on 6/9/12

Fallen angel?
Are humans fallen?
Did Adam take personal responsibility for his sin or did he blame his unnamed wife and God?
He ACCUSED his wife and God!
What exactly does the word satan mean?
What does ADVERSE mean?
What ENEMY AGAINST God has clear and concise documentation without debate that he was kicked out of the his first estate?
Adam and Eve were ejected from the Garden as enemies of the Garden!
Who did God use to guard against enemies?
---Legends on 6/9/12

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sanning 2: I wanted to explain a few things concerning "light" and "darkness." Darknes is the word "Choshekh" Depending on the context, it has a few meaning. The term has the figurative meaning of blindness, hiddenness, and judgment. Something hidden. And light can mean the opposite of darkness. Light is the word "Or" it can mean light, brightness, lighting, luminary day, sunlight, illumination, enlightement, happiness. God is also closely associated with light. Jesus is the light of the world. Just wanted to make that clear. God does create light, but He didn't create Jesus Christ, so we have to be careful how we use it the two words.
---Mark_V. on 6/8/12

sanning, to the blog question, Yes, Satan is a fallen angel.
As to your passage in (Isaiah 45:7) it should be clear that without God light or darkness would not exist, He also makes peace and creates calamities, then He says, ""I the Lord, do these things" (v.9) is given to those who do not believe what He just said,
"Woe to him who strives with him Maker"
God is Omniscient, knowing all things. When He created Satan He created him holy. But because God is Omniscient, He knew Satan would rebell if He created him, and God went ahead and created him anyway. He did not make him sin, but knew He would when He created him.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/12

In reply to jonwekl, comparing "light and darkness"is a good analogy, but we must take "darkness" as being created, Genesis 1:2 and being "very good". How, therefore, do we read Isaiah 45:7?
---sanning on 6/6/12

Just want to share an "anecdote" i read before, which supposedly involved Einstein when he was just a school boy. Am not sure if that is accurate though.

Anyway, it was said, he was asked by his professor regarding Satan, being evil and who then created evil. He answered by using light and darkness to explain good and evil. The bible says light was created, but it does not mention that darkness was created. Darkness is simply the absence of light. Light is the creation. The absence of that creation (light) is what we call darkness.

In the same way, the bible said everything God created was good. It does not say God created evil. Evil, using light and darkness as an analogy, is simply the absence of good.
---jonweckl on 6/5/12

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he is no angel, he's just a total loser whose eternity is torments in the lake of fire and brimstone.
---Eloy on 6/5/12

By the way, as to who created evil, look at Isaiah 14:7
---sanning on 6/5/12

\\In their attempt to try to disprove God, they reason that "God is the creator of everything right? So who created satan? Is satan good? So God created evil as well?"
---jonweckl on 6/5/12\\

As he left the manufacturer, Satan is good.

Oddly enough Satan has many things that are good in themselves: reason, free will, determination, perseverance, intelligence, and even existence itself.

ALL of these came from God.

But Satan chose to pervert these gifts.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/5/12

Jesus "said to them, 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven,'" in Luke 10:18. So, he fell pretty fast and hard . . . thrown out as fast a lightning. So, this shows he fell very hard, because God's almighty power so easily got rid of him. And now Satan is on this earth > his kingdom of evil and his people are here. This earth, for now, is a prison-of-war camp for Satan and evil and selfish people, while God rescues ones who trust in Jesus. Then it all goes to the flaming sewer which burns fire and brimstone. Don't be a sewer bucket, then, of Satan's toxic filth of worry and pride and unforgiveness, etc.
---willie_c: on 6/5/12

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Cluny, I have heard this "line of reasoning" as well from some aetheist and (I don't know) but maybe sanning has also heard it.

In their attempt to try to disprove God, they reason that "God is the creator of everything right? So who created satan? Is satan good? So God created evil as well?"
---jonweckl on 6/5/12


Satan is the FALLEN Angel Lucifer.

Lucifer was God's worship leader in heaven. That wasn't enough to keep Lucifer happy. He decided to become EVIL and rebel against HOLY God.

God CAN'T tolerate sin or rebellion. Therefore, Lucifer was forcefully expelled from Heaven and confined to planet Earth.

The Earth became, and still is, Satan's territory. God created people to "Live For Him" and win the Earth back.

Ever since the time of Adam and Eve, people have had a major choice to make: (1) Live For God or (2) Live For The Fallen Angel Lucifer aka Satan.

Personally, I can't understand WHY anyone would want to Live For Satan, but the choice is their own.
---Sag on 6/5/12


Why are you asking?

You don't actually think he was created to be evil, do you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/4/12

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