Pain Before The Fall
We who believe enter into His rest. His works were finished from the foundation of the world.(Hebrew Ch4)
Adam had a need to be fulfilled. As it was with Abram, it was with Adam and it is with us. Adam did no work to meet that need. He entered divine rest.
Divine rest is that place where one knows that God pre-planned the answer before the answer is seen.
Adam slept, Jesus slept on a sinking ship, Daniel slept in the lions den.
All needs were met by God. Resting in the divine is faith in the Divine.
Concerning Pain? After receiving bad news that Lazarus was dead Jesus stayed/rested instead of rushing back. Upon arrival, Jesus wept but first and foremost He slept in faith concerning His friend Lazarus!
---Legends on 6/14/12|
Leon, I agree with you on many things you said. I do not agree that someone else can bring light to a passage without other passages bringing that light. We might not understand a passage, but someone can point us to another passages already written, that can bring light to one we don't understand. But that light has to come from the Word of God, through the Spirit. New revelations not written in Scripture, cannot be authenticate they are Truth and come from God, just because a prophet or person says it does. Anyone could say he is a prophet and has new revelation from God, there is no way to proof it does. It has to be from God's written Word. Not mans.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/12|
Jesus said unto them, YET A LITTLE WHILE IS THE LIGHT WITH YOU. WALK WHILE YE HAVE THE LIGHT, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
WHILE YE HAVE LIGHT, BELIEVE IN THE LIGHT, THAT YE MAY BE THE CHILDREN OF LIGHT. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. AND HE THAT SEETH ME SEETH HIM THAT SENT ME.
I AM COME A LIGHT INTO THE WORLD, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH ON ME SHOULD NOT ABIDE IN DARKNESS
---Chria9396 on 6/13/12|
There are different types of sleep, physical, spiritual, also different levels, light, deep
So might assume there may be different types of awakening
Deep awakening??? Partial, full?
Yesterday/today I've been reading in 1 Thes 5 and John 12.
---Chria9396 on 6/13/12|
Away a couple of days and more here than I can comment on in 1 post.
But for now,---kathr4453 on 6/11/12 God put Abraham to sleep as He passed through the pieces of meat, possible for teh same reason...
Thanks. I appreciate. (Covenant. Gen 15)
Yes MarkV, His Word should be good enough, in fact is, all sufficient. Often times others have different insights into scripture that enlighten, and all parts of the body a purpose. We, the body are a unit, with Christ as head.
Leon, agree about pain.
Jed, thanks. As for the rib, bones provide framework. Jed 6/11, understand
Char: "It's Nice to be able to discussion with our brothers and sister our thoughts--Thanks." Youre welcome, and thank you too, I agree
---Chria9396 on 6/13/12|
Good questions chira9396
It's Nice to be able to discussion with our brothers and sister our thoughts--Thanks.
Hebraic perspective: Gen 2:25
One-echad part of a unity
One God-Onebody/Lord etc...
One tree functions as one unit, roots,trunk, branches, leaves etc...
Son-a unit of brotherhood
God is One and Only but within a unity
Image/representation-Functions as one
Eve: "life" "the mother of all the living" Womb:bag of water Gen 3:20
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear,) unto this day.
---char on 6/12/12|
I'm sorry, I addressed aka in my last post. I meant to address 1st Cliff. Sorry.
---Jed on 6/12/12|
//That Adam and Eve were one flesh is the foundation of us becoming one flesh with our wives.
---Warwick on 6/12/12//---Very nice.
//These are people God uses as leaders over people meant to follow them as they follow Him
---Leon on 6/11/12//------Very Nice.
Rom 12:4-5For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
//The opening of Adams flesh and removing of the rib could remind us of how the Jesus Christ, the last Adam would have His side pierced and out of it would flow blood and water. Also symbolic of the Bride of Christ, bone of His bone, flesh of His flesh. ---kathr4453 on 6/7/12//----Very Nice.
---char on 6/12/12|
Warwick I abosolutley agree. That's what I was trying to say with less words.
Aka, crossbreading is when animals of two different species mate, not when two separately created animals of the same species mate. The reason a mule is sterile, is because it is the offspring of two totally different species, a donkey and a horse, because they have different number of chromosomes. When two seperately created horses mate however, their offspring is fully capable of reproducing because both horses have the same number or chromosomes. Same with Donkeys. You don't think God could create two people of the same species that could produce fertile offspring? That happens everyday.
---Jed on 6/12/12|
Jed, I believe God made Eve from Adam's side that they would be one flesh, as a foundation for marriages to come. This is what Genesis 2:24 says. Jesus quotes this in Matthew 19:4-6 "He answered, Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."
That Adam and Eve were one flesh is the foundation of us becoming one flesh with our wives.
---Warwick on 6/12/12|
Jed, You have no idea how God created the animals,speaking them into existence is only a cliche'
Seperately created creatures cannot cross bread!
Each one was meticulously designed for their habitat and environment.
Jesus said "My Father keeps WORKING" Speaking something to life is not"working"
---1st_cliff on 6/12/12|
1st Cliff, what on earth are you talking about? That makes no sense at all. When God created all the other animals he did not take a rib from the males to create the females, he spoke them both into existence and obviously they had no problem reproducing. You don't think he could have done the same thing with Eve? You don't think if God can create a woman out of a man's rib that he has the power to speak a woman into existence that would be able to reproduce with the man? How would creating her out of a rib have any effect upon weather they could reproduce or not?
---Jed on 6/11/12|
It could very well be that God simply did not want Adam to EYE witness the creation of something. After all, Adam did not SEE God create the Heavens and Earth,
Vegitation or the animals.
God put Abraham to sleep as He passed through the pieces of meat, possible for teh same reason...
---kathr4453 on 6/11/12|
One does not have to speculate why a rib from Adam was used to create Eve.
If she was a "separate" creation their children would be hybrids and sterile!
One does not have to be a bio genius to figure that out!
---1st_cliff on 6/11/12|
Mark & Jed: You may or not agree, but it's not a matter of us knowing about everything written in the Bible. What really matters is that we know & trust the One who knows everything. That One obviously is God.
The Bible (Gen.-Rev.) clearly shows God-delegated authorities, e.g., husbands, prophets, apostles...people who were/are privileged to know more about God's plan & purpose than anyone else. These are people God uses as leaders over people meant to follow them as they follow Him.
"We" followers oftentimes are grumblers. :) That's especially true when we don't understand the "how or why". That's why faith in God is so important regardless of what we see & feel.
---Leon on 6/11/12|
MarkV, I agree. I went through a phase in college when I thought I had to know everything about the Bible, especially about creation and evolution. It is very upsetting trying to put all the peices of evidence together and feeling like you have to figure out exactly how everything happened. I anguished over this stuff for a few years. I extensively studies the Bible and science books all with conflicting evidence. Then I came to the determination that no one will ever really know how it all happened, and that I don't need to be able to explain it all in order to know God. There are some mysteries that God has not revealed to us at this time. I believe God's Word 100%, even if there are some things about it I don't understand.
---Jed on 6/11/12|
//Personally, I think it was to establish the union between a man and a woman. //
Perhaps he wanted to spare him from the spiritual pain that was on the way. ---aka on 6/10/12
---aka on 6/11/12|
Jed, very good points. I don't know why there has to be an answer. It should be good enough for us. But some people want to know the details. God gives little details about a lot of things. His Word should be good enough for us.
---Mark_V. on 6/11/12|
There is nothing in scripture that suggests the deep sleep was for an anesthetic. In fact, in modern surgery today sleep is not so much for anasthetic purposes in most cases, but rather for paralysis, so that the surgery can be performed safely without the interference or disruption from a fully concious patient. Quite frankly, we don't know why God put Adam into a deep sleep, or why he even used Adam's rib at all. Certainly he could have just spoken a woman into existence. Personally, I think it was to establish the union between a man and a woman. As Adam said "you are flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone, for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."
---Jed on 6/10/12|
//Why did God cause Adam to fall into a deep sleep when He made Eve? //
Perhaps he wanted to spare him from the spiritual pain that was on the way.
---aka on 6/10/12|
"...all He does,all that's written is with purpose..."
---Chria9396 on 6/10/12
I agree! If A & E were created pain-free, wouldn't we also be? Is pain a bad thing? I don't believe it necessarily is. Frequently, pain is a warning sign that something is wrong... Pain normally causes people to desperately cry out & hopefully turn to the Lord for help. We hear ourselves & others often crying, "Oh Lord ~ oh my God!" The only person who can totally help us is God. So, thru pain we learn to faithfully depend upon Him in our afflictions & otherwise.
No pain in our earthly lives, no gain (NO growth in understanding God's wisdom & purpose for our lives)! God tries us in fire! :)
---Leon on 6/10/12|
"I believe there are just some things God does for a reason. There is a deep spiritual reason.
We might not always know what or why, but just accept it that this is how God works. His ways are not our ways."
---kathr4453 on 6/10/12
Agree Kathr, all he does,all that's written is with purpose. I appreciate the rest of your post too.
---Chria9396 on 6/10/12|
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram, and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them, and they shall afflict them four hundred years,
When God made a covenant with Abraham, God caused a deep sleep to fall upon him too.
I believe there are just some things God does for a reason. There is a deep spiritual reason.
We might not always know what or why, but just accept it that this is how God works. His ways are not our ways.
---kathr4453 on 6/10/12|
Seems like these blogs get sillyer and sillyer,
Why were we created with a central nervous system,able to feel pain?
Without pain we would injure ourselves seriously even fatally!
**Adam had to go to sleep so Eve could have a relationship with God first** is about the goofyist comment I've ever heard!
---1st_cliff on 6/9/12|
Even if he could feel pain, still God could have done it without him even feeling the rib coming out.
And why have Eve wait for who knows how long for Adam to "sleep" until he would be healed enough not to suffer when he woke up?
But God could have taken a rib and formed Eve, all while Adam was conscious and have him not feel any pain.
Jesus was in the grave and He came out to be with His bride church. This is like how Adam came out of his deep sleep to find Eve (c:
---willie_c: on 6/9/12|
"I don't think there could have been any pain since it was before the fall,"
Mary, I had thought much the same, an assumption from long ago, and something Id given little thought to. Leon " That implies she'd previously experienced pain birthing children" yes, that seems an implication.
"Adam had to go to sleep so that Eve had a relationship with God first not Adam. Scott1 on 6/7/12" Id never thought of that before, I like that!Thanks
If it were possible to feel pain, pre-fall, also possible eternally? What is the purpose?
A new ager I know has some odd beliefs about "Jesus" and Adams sleep,
---Chria9396 on 6/8/12|
Jesus did not need to cause Adam to sleep before he removed a rib bone from him, but he did. And afterward when he brought the woman to him to, Adam knew that this was not like all the other animals that he already named, but knew instinctively that she was part of him, made specially to be his companion. One preacher said, Adam took one look at her and exclaimed, "Wo! man!" (woman). No more lonely nights or days him.
---Eloy on 6/8/12|
Why was Adam put to sleep?
Maybe it was symbolic in its meaning.
The opening of Adams flesh and removing of the rib could remind us of how the Jesus Christ, the last Adam would have His side pierced and out of it would flow blood and water. Also symbolic of the Bride of Christ, bone of His bone, flesh of His flesh.
The sleeping and awakening could remind us that through Jesus' death and resurrection there would be new life, also the Church, His Bride.
Yet, can anyone prove that there was no pain before the fall? Jesus was sinless however we know He felt pain when He died on the cross.
Were they human before the fall? Nerve endings?
---kathr4453 on 6/7/12|
Adam had to go to sleep so that Eve had a relationship with God first not Adam.
---Scott1 on 6/7/12|
Was Adam made pain-free? The fact God put Adam to sleep implies NO! Otherwise, God might've just painlessly plucked the rib from Adam's side while he was awake. Because Adam could feel pain, I believe it was necessary to put him in a deep sleep, remove the rib & close him up. When Adam awaken, he may've had some discomfort (PAIN) that was meant to make him aware of the physical change in his body. Apparently, God told Adam where the woman came from.
Pain before sin: Did you notice God told Eve (G3:16) He was going to greatly multiply her sorrow (PAIN) in childbearing? That implies she'd previously experienced pain birthing children, but not to the degree she was going to thereafter?
---Leon on 6/7/12|
I don't think there could have been any pain since it was before the fall, wish my surgeries were so easy lol! :D
---Mary on 6/7/12|