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Pastors Have Personal Info

How much information should pastors have regarding church members? E.g. should he be aware of their earnings so that he can check that they are tithing in the way he feels tithing should be done. Please state other examples of pastors enquiring about personal issues if you have any.

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 ---Rita_H on 9/14/12
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Thank you Mark, that was good to read.
---Rita_H on 12/5/12

sis. Rita 2: I do not believe we should chastize any church for collecting tithes even though I do not believe it is for the Church today. Again, I believe it is all decided by our conscience, and the Spirit speaks to our conscience, what someone believes something to be wrong, they should not go against conscience, until they are totally convince it is ok. And we should not force anyone because of our own conscience.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/12

Mark v and Francis. I have just converted my pension from pounds into $ and I receive $140.009 per week in TOTAL.

I am a 'cheerful giver' in accordance with one part of scripture but don't always 'tithe'. I do not feel God's wrath upon me for my decision on this. If I felt that I must tithe AND give cheerfully also I would not be able to do many of these things e.g. eat, heat my home, turn the lights on, boil the kettle, travel on buses, replace anything for the house or for myself such as clothes and shoes. I'd have nothing to give my grandchildren for Christmas. I live frugally but am fine and healthy and I cope.

It's true what they say "One half doesn't know how the other half lives."
---Rita_H on 12/5/12

Sis. Rita, pastors or preachers should not have the life story of every member, other then the total someone gives, for Tax purposes, also to indicate how much the Church is receiving and using. Once a year they are to provide the amount that goes in and what it's use for. This way they keep the Church from sin by not using the money for themselves.
There was a time when people believed in confessing everything to a preacher. They believe preachers could forgive sin, but they cannot. Only God forgives sin. They got to know every detail of you. Under the New Covenant, there is no more tithes. We are all under grace, we give cheerfully for we are not under the law. If someone gives 10%, then tithes become a law.
We give from the heart.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/12

Francis - your words here "If you are a faithful tither, your pastor will know how...
---Rita_H on 12/2/12

Tithe is 10% of your gross income. Tithes are seperate from offerings and based on the bible, should be used for seperate things.

So the tithe must be given seperatly from the offerering as they are used for seperate things

Numbers 18:21 I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

If you are giving to the church faithfully, you pastor will know how much you make
---francis on 12/3/12

Francis - your words here "If you are a faithful tither, your pastor will know how much money you earn" would seem to contradict what was said by Blogger 9211 on 9/14/12 which seems to state that pastors don't know anything about the 'giving' of their members.

I have never accepted numbered envelopes in ANY church that I have attended over the years. I am in a minority but am certainly not the only one.

I think that any system which shows who gives what is obnoxious. All giving should be done freely with no pressure and I am sure that is the way that God wants it to be. It is what HE sees that matters.
---Rita_H on 12/2/12

Hello,sis.RitaH. this ELENA you are completely 100% correct. They are human. & not divine. Much of your life they do NOT need to know. Better keep it between you and God.
you are very correct, people will tell things when it up to them Ja3:3-8 Smiles
...hugs. your friend ELENA
---ELENA on 12/1/12

Cluny, my pastor knows as much about me as he needs to know - NOT all that there is to know.

There are many persnal things about church members which a pastor does NOT need to know but if individuals wish to tell every little detail that is absolutely their choice to do.

I don't wish to know every little detail about other people either. What people WANT me to know they will tell me and that is how it should be.

We are all capable of praying for each other without knowing every detail of a person's life or needs. God knows the detail, He doesn't need us to inform him of these things.
---Rita_H on 12/1/12

Please state other examples of pastors enquiring about personal issues if you have any.
---Rita_H on 9/14/12

There is nothing wrong with pastors having personal information. If you are a faithful tither, your pastor will know how much money you earn

If you have been married he will know. If you have been struggling with sin issues and asked him to pray, he will not only know about your personal life, but also about your private life

He should be discrete.
Being a pastor or priest is a great responsibility, not to be taken lightly by pastor, priest of parishioners.
---francis on 12/1/12

\\How much information should pastors have regarding church members?\\

My pastor knows just about everything about me there is to know, and I trust his discretion.

Do you trust your own?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/29/12

Cluny - you still have not answered the question posed, which was....

"How much information should pastors have regarding church members? E.g. should he be aware of their earnings so that he can check that they are tithing in the way he feels tithing should be done."

Do you have an answer to that or DON'T you?
---Rita_H on 11/29/12

\\I didn't say that it was any of my business\\

But I did say it was NONE of your business.

\\ (and it is offensive to call me a meddler).\\

People are usually pricked in their hearts when their faults are pointed out, they tend to lash out. claiming to be"offended."

If you don't believe me, read Acts 7:54.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/28/12

Cluny, You have entered this a little late so I suggest you read all comments before your own.

I didn't say that it was any of my business (and it is offensive to call me a meddler). I stated something that I know and asked for opinions. Read my actual question please.

If you didn't have an answer to my original question you could have passed it by.
---Rita_H on 11/27/12

\\Karen D, no it is not a Mormon church, though I know they are very strict indeed about tithing. The church in question is actually a Baptist church.\\

My, aren't you a meddler.

Rita, unless you are a member of this church, it's really none of your business what they do.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/25/12

Darlene, things might be different here in the U.K. but I will check that out. It might well be that it is illegal here also. Whether it is or not it is still morally wrong I am certain.
---Rita_H on 10/18/12

Rita H you're right it sounds like the reason for printing the people who paid tithes and amount is done for a sinful purpose. Worse yet that church is breaking the Law which is covered in the Privacy Act. When the Act came out I was in college,the teacher would post our final grades on her door and that way we could check them even if she wasn't there,with the Act in place she could no longer do that. Printing how much tithes a person gives is very much the same situation. That is private information which cannot be given to anyone but the person the information is about. They are breaking the Law with their bit of information,the person who ask the question should tell the Deacons and tell them if it doesn't stop you will report them.
---Darlene_1 on 10/15/12

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Karen D, no it is not a Mormon church, though I know they are very strict indeed about tithing. The church in question is actually a Baptist church. I think that there are different types of Baptist churches and I don't know more than that it says Baptist Church above its door. Apparently there are several members who do not use the envelopes for their offering but just place it in the box or plate which is passed around.
---Rita_H on 9/21/12

The purpose of a Pastor is to provide nutricious food, and to protect the lambs. If a hired shepherd spent most of his time weighing sheep, the owner of the flock would be very right to be concerned about this mans intentions. Some leaders are improperly, and overly interested in the congregants lives. This leads to all kinds of sin. For example, interfering in others marriage relationship(s). A godly Bishop must respect proper Church discipline as it concerns sin, but neither has the time, nor the inclination to stick his nose in the things that dont concern him.
Matthew 7:15-23, Luke 12:45-48, John 10:12
---Glenn on 9/20/12

Rita...Sounds like Mormons to me. They required "tithing statements" to assure that people have been paying their tithes and that they can have temple privileges.
---KarenD on 9/19/12

A pastor only has one "job", and that to spiritually lead the church. Nothing else is any of his business.
---wivv on 9/19/12

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Rita: That is horrible. I can't believe that people even attend that church.

My church has an envelope system. Nobody knows my giving until January when only ONE trusted servant checks the records and mails out receipts for people to use for tax purposes. He is a respected man, and there has never been a problem with this system.
---Trish on 9/18/12

The church I had in mind when I asked this question is attended by my friend's grandfather. This church publishes a magazine at the end of every year and on the back page is a list of members names, the number printed on their offering envelope and the amount they have given over the whole year. This almost seems like a form of blackmail to shame people into giving more than they otherwise would.
God knows what we give and only HE needs that information.
---Rita_H on 9/18/12

As it is, we have a young couple who are irregular attenders, not members, who are living together and have a baby together. They are planning to get married.

interesting, I have known many men who played with womens minds and hearts. They moved in together with promise of marriage. Several promised marriage for many years and never did. The sting for these women was how quickly, after many years of patiently living together and waiting, these men dismissed them and married the love of their life almost within months of meeting. Difference between living for God and living for lust some just never come to that understanding. hope it works out for this fornicator in your church.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/15/12

Follower: In my church we have two types of people in the sanctuary on Sunday mornings, members and attenders. Anybody can attend our worship service and discipleship classes. That includes couples living together without marriage. To serve in any capacity at my church, you must be a member. That requires having been baptized by immersion, attending a membership class, and being interviewed by the elders. When a person becomes a member, they accept that they are expected to live Godly lives, and are willing to submit to the leadership of the pastor and the elders.

As it is, we have a young couple who are irregular attenders, not members, who are living together and have a baby together. They are planning to get married.
---Trish on 9/15/12

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if the pastor is checking on the tithes of his members he is not ministering. if he is not faithful in his ministry how can he expect his followers to be faithful in their tithe. It is pastors responsibility to teach tithing not monitor tithing. If the tithes are not enough then he is not teaching correctly and maybe he should consider another profession because his teaching would be ineffective. example of a personal issue a pastor should confront is an unmarried couple known to be living together. Allowing this couple to stay teaches the younger generations a wrong example. this would make the pastor more ineffective in his teachings allowing and having members living against Gods ways.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/15/12

Blogger 9211 Favouring dominant givers really is what it is all about in these churches. The left hand should not know what the right hand is doing but some churches insist on this information and remove those who don't (or won't) conform.

---Rita_H on 9/15/12

//So, if you and your pastor do not trust each other, then you do not have a Christian relationship.//
---willie_c: on 9/15/12

i hear you, but i do not think this is about trust. i think it is about meeting numbers. there are boards that now control a preachers fate. it is simple math, if you have 100 regulars that make on the average $50,000 , you should be at least be able to guilt those out of $500,000 per year. if you get more, good, if you get less, you are gone.
---aka on 9/15/12

Paul said, "'Yes, you yourselves know that these hands have provided for my necessities, and for those who were with me. I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that you must support the weak. And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, "It is more blessed to give than to receive."'"

So, they knew what Paul gave. It says, "submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21) To me, this means in a Christian relationship we have mutual trust and mutual depending on each other. So, if you and your pastor do not trust each other, then you do not have a Christian relationship.
---willie_c: on 9/15/12

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In general the pastor should never have access to stewardship information as he/she can be accused of favoring dominant givers.
---Blogger9211 on 9/14/12

Pastors who check up on their congregants' giving would seem to lack faith in the Lord's ability to provide for that church.

My pastor is too busy ministering and preparing sermons to be concerned about all that. He does know some personal stuff about me because he has visited me in the hospital.
---Trish on 9/14/12

I think that paid workers are more common in the churches in America than here in U.K. Many churches here have only a paid pastor and some pastors receive no salary. I have 2 friends, however, in 2 different churches, where there are 3 paid staff - pastor, deputy pastor and secretary. These churches are very money orientated and use envelopes for offerings which bear a number which identified the giver. This actually makes people afraid to give less than others think they should. This, to me, goes against the teachings "The Lord loves a cheerful giver" and "give in secret and the Lord will reward you openly."
---Rita_H on 9/14/12

1 Timothy 3:1-10 to me means a qualified pastor has first been proven in his own home, in his own marriage and with his own children, so we know he is able to care for us in our Father's caring and sharing way. So . . . if he personally knows his sheep . . . who needs statistics and surveillance? You feed your people your example > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) God's word makes God's thing happen > Isaiah 55:11 > therefore, the money of God's kingdom "could" be God's word. Do you tithe love and the word that you are getting, to your pastor? Galatians 6:6 says, "Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches."
---willie_c: on 9/14/12

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Rita_H...If a pastor is teaching the true word he will be making sure that his flock is aware that they need to repent if their lives are full of sin. If he is doing premarital counseling he needs to ask a whole lots of questions. In our church, the guidlines for anyone in teaching or leadership positions is strict. If you don't walk the walk, you won't be used. Background checks are done on ALL workers in the church.
---KarenD on 9/14/12

Am 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Being involved in sectarian Christianity requires transparency. When one becomes a member of a sect, submission to the organization's leadership is not an option.

God uses all things, sects included, for His glory. If being connected to a party spirit is important to you, then submission is necessary for the organization to grow.

There is no place for mavericks in Christendom. The sects and modern Pastoral offices seek the flesh, and desire what can be sensed of earthly things.

It is best go along, to get along.
---Phil on 9/14/12

If you are on staff absolutely because if you are on staff you are a leader thus you cannot lead if you do not do what you expect your followers to do.
For regular church members no because this is between you and God and John 3:17 becomes an issue.
A wise financial pastor can easly figure out the number of people who are tithing by making a few assumptions like average income of region, number of people, unemployment rate, demographic of congregation etc, to make an educated guess. Unfortunely the average church adult percentage of people giving money to the church is between 15 and 20% of congregation. Money is usually the last aspect of a christian's life that gets surrendered to God.
---Scott1 on 9/14/12

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