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What Does Rule Over Mean

Genesis 1.28 "let them rule over the fish..birds...animals"
What did God mean "rule over?"

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 ---1st_cliff on 9/30/12
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Lord Jesus will rule forever from Jerusalem when he returns to earth, to rule over all nations. Today Believers are judged by God for their obedience, and by the holy spirit working in our minds we have his laws written in our hearts. It is by the power of Gods holy spirit overcome to obey. It is those who overcome until the end who will rule with the Lord Jesus on earth when he returns. As King of the earth the Lord Jesus will rule

Zechariah 14:9
"And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD... "

Zechariah 14:17
"And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts..."
---Follower_of_Christ on 10/27/12

FoC says, "Satan rules the earth today."

Jesus says, "All power is given to ME in heaven and ON EARTH." (Matthew 28).

Whom should we believe? FoC or Jesus Christ?

To Him be glory!
---Cluny on 10/27/12

Satan rules the earth today. Adam was to replace Satan and rule the earth as stated in Genesis 1:28. Satan deceived Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge and give that fruit to Adam. The first Adam was made flesh and by flesh we all fall short and sin, Adam did not qualify to rule. The Lord Jesus, the second Adam, was made flesh and by full measure of Gods holy spirit he did not sin, his death was a sacrifice for all past sins of those who believe. Followers of the Lord Jesus who have faith and look to promise of salvation and eternal immortal life will rule with the Lord Jesus. The Lord Jesus will rule forever, at his return, from Jerusalem as King of Kings.
---Follower_of_Christ on 10/27/12

Mark V, Cut and run ,if that's your style,but before you go you could at least answer my questions.
How do you know what I will or won't believe.
Saying "you don't believe scripture is the same as saying if you don't agree with the front page you discard the entire newspaper!
You look for excuses!
---1st_cliff on 10/27/12

1Cliff, the reason you posted was to try and make those who oppose you look bad. Otherwise you would not have posted what you did. When you answer, you look at things from the world point of view, not the spiritual. When you post, you imply what Scripture says is not true, only the parts you feel are true. So how can anyone answer you? No matter what they say, you will not believe. yet you want answers from Scripture even when you do not believe Scripture. A very hopeless case. It is like talking to an athiest. No difference whatsoever. I am only stating the Truth. If I could convince you, it would be great, but I cannot, I have no power to do that, only God. So I leave you peace and move on.
---Mark_V. on 10/27/12

Mark V, To laugh at the word of God would be very disrespectful, to say the least. I do not!
Instead of commenting on my post you go into great lengths posting scripture that has nothing to do with me or my post!
You only response is to try to discredit "me" rather than what I say!
---1st_cliff on 10/26/12

1Cliff, you can laugh at the word of God for we are told,
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are been saved it is the power of God. For it is written,
I will destroy the wisdom of the wise. And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."
(1 Cor. 1:18-21)
This is the word of the Lord. But you do not believe the Word, yet you argue. How can I convince you and change you? It is impossible.
---Mark_V. on 10/26/12

aka, **I would say three spirits**
Are each of these "spirits" independent of the other two?
Are they like a committee of three? All equal to each other?
Can you imagine a ship with three captains?
It's more like the Father is the Captain and Jesus is 1st mate (always obedient to the Captain) Holy Spirit is the power that keeps them sailing smoothly!
If you check you'll find that both Father and Son command the Holy Spirit (never the reverse.)
---1st_cliff on 10/25/12

//**there are three persons in the Godhead**
Nowhere does it say that in the bible!//

i would not say three persons, i would say three spirits. but, nowhere in the bible says michael is the christ, but somehow some people get there.
---aka on 10/25/12

Mark v: **there are three persons in the Godhead**
Nowhere does it say that in the bible!
You're actually saying I'm too stupid to find the truth myself? Paul said to TIMOTHY "Study to show yourself approved" study what? the spirit? No! the OT.
You're letting hocus-pocus religion dictate your beliefs!
I have no problem understanding what God requires of me.(and all Christians for that matter) I don't need secret whispers in the ear to understand!
Sounds like you're in a cult!
---1st_cliff on 10/25/12

1Cliff, there is three Persons in the Godhead. There is only One God. And the Divine God is Omnipresent. He is everywhere even in hell. He is Spirit and you cannot see Him. God cannot be known by searching or asking, He can be known only as He is revealed to the heart, by the Holy Spirit through the Word. No matter how many answers I give you, you will not know Him unless the Spirit reveals Him to you.
You are looking for fault, but only because you do not understand. And you will not change unless God changes you.
---Mark_V. on 10/25/12

Mark V, Mark V, This is an example of fixing the scripture to fit your belief. "whole fullness of deity" does not imply 1,2,3 or 10 persons in one Godhead!
What is a "Godhead"? (it's trinitarians grasping at straws) Trinity is not mentioned or even implied!
I do wish you would answer my questions!
---1st_cliff on 10/25/12

Genesis 1:28 God gave rulership of earth to Adam. Adam did not qualify to rule when he ate from tree of knowledge his sin brought death. The Lord Jesus is last Adam and he qualified to rule earth by resisting Satans offer to rule the world. The Lord Jesus will rule earth from Jerusalem as his return.

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

1 Corinthians 15:54 "...then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
---Follower_of_Christ on 10/24/12

1Cliff, you ask, is it one person? No, they are three Persons involve in the Godhead. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. So Jesus Christ is One Person. As a Person in His humanity, He could have used all of His powers if He so wanted. Christ has all power because He is Omnipotent, Omniscience, Omnipresence, immutable. Yet came as a human as you and me to die in the flesh for our sins. "Thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail" Christ has never changed as Lord, and existed from eternity past and is the One seen on earth, during the period of the Gospels and the One who is now the Glorified Son of God in heaven.
"In Him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily" (Col. 2:9).
---Mark_V. on 10/24/12

Mark V, You have this fixation on baptism when I was establishing Jesus receiving Holy Spirit!
What miracles were performed by Him in His 1st 30 years?? Why?? None,because He did not receive HS.
After receiving HS He then turned water into wine (a demonstration of His HS power)
At His baptism
1 Father's voice "from" heaven
2 Jesus standing in the water.
3 HS descending as a dove.

Three separate entities in three seperate locations (simultaneously)
Now tell me this is "ONE" person!!!!
---1st_cliff on 10/24/12

1Cliff, in the Person of Jesus, in His humanity, He had to be submissive to the Father. That does not mean that in His divine nature He was not God, He was born of the Spirit. At the moment of baptism, Jesus, the Holy Spirit of God, and the Fathers voice that came from heaven, were all present at Jesus baptism. The Holy Spirit did come upon Jesus. Also led the Person of Jesus to many places. In chapter 4, He, the Holy Spirit led Jesus into the wilderness. At baptism Jesus was identifying Himself with sinners. This act of baptism was a necessary part of the righteousness He secured as a Person for sinners. It marked the first public event in His ministry.
---Mark_V. on 10/24/12

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Mark V, If you go back and read this event you'll find that the Holy Spirit came down as a dove and landed on Him, just like at Pentecost Holy Spirit was visible as tongues of fire!
If He did not receive Holy Spirit at that time ,what was the purpose of the "dove"?
Do you even know why it was at His 30th year???
---1st_cliff on 10/23/12

1Cliff, Jesus did get baptized. He didn't receive the Holy Spirit's power at that time. I have read nothing of the kind. He had to get baptized to fulfill Scripture and all righteousness (Matt 3:15). In Baptism Christ was identifying Himself with sinners. He will ultimately bear their sins, His perfect righteousness will be imputed to them (2 Cor. 5:21). This act of baptism was a necessary part of the righteousness He secured for sinners. It also pictured His death and resurrection (Luke 12:50) it therefore prefigured the significance of Christian baptism. It was also a public affirmation of His messiahship by testimony directly from heaven (v.7).
---Mark_V. on 10/23/12

Mark V, What I stated was true. For 30 years Jesus did not have Holy Spirit power.
And did no miracles.
He recieved Holy Spirit at His baptism.(show me where this is not true)
God's Holy Spirit transferred Jesus from His heavenly abode to Mary's womb. (at all times He is and was God's Son!)
**only one is holy and that is God** does not appear in the bible. Saint means Holy person!
---st_cliff on 10/23/12

1Cliff, the reason you don't understand, is because you don't believe the Word of God, is true. Here you say,

"For 30 years Jesus did no miracles,why? because He did not receive Holy Spirit 'till His baptism."

Implying that Jesus power did not come until he was baptized. Sorry cliff but we are told.

"The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, (Mary) and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee' wherefore also the Holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35). Only one is Holy and that is God.
"Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 1:20).
---Mark_V. on 10/23/12

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cliff, I am sorry to tell you but Jesus Christ is 100% God and 100% man. I really can understand why you can't grasp this doctrine. However, it is true..otherwise He wouldn't have been the Son of God. God works in mysterous ways and this is one of the mystries that confound man. I am sorry you are not grounded enough to know this.
---shira4368 on 10/23/12

Shira,Nothing can be more than 100% of the Whole. 50% God 50% man ?? 200% does not exist! (except in your mind)Do the math!
Seated on His own right hand???How does that work???
When you passed out you were in delirium!
---1st_cliff on 10/22/12

Mark V, Again you're lacking a little knowledge here.
How so? For 30 years Jesus did no miracles,why? because He did not receive Holy Spirit 'till His baptism.
So ,like His father he used Holy Spirit power to walk on water etc even raise the dead!
This was not an indication of Jesus being God.
Moses was not God when he brought the plagues on Egypt,Holy Spirit was his power!
You will never understand till
you shake this "trinity" idea!
---1st_cliff on 10/22/12

wow markv, you hit the nail on the head. when paul was in the body or out of the body, he just had an experience that was supernatural. God is supernatural. He was 100% God and 100% man. most people don't believe that but that is exactly what Jesus Christ was. He is seated on the right hand of God and He lives in me. when I passed out in my house last march, I sort of felt the same way as paul, I didn't know what was happening but it was peaceful. I couldn't tell if I was out of the body or in the body, I knew not and still don't know. markv, God bless
---shira4368 on 10/22/12

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1Cliff, you said,

" I am old fasion Christian . Jesus never talked hocus-pocus in the body out of the body,nonsence!"

Jesus did not have to talk hocus-pocus nonsence. All He did was proof who He was by what He said and what He did. Can a human walk through a wall? or walk on water? or stop the storms?
He came from heaven incarnated as a human being. Possessing two natures, a Divine nature and a human nature. It is all in God's Word. And I cannot make you believe it. That He is seating at the right hand of God the Father and at the same time indwelling every believer as the Spirit of Christ. You will never understand that because the Holy Spirit has to testify of who Jesus is to your heart.
---Mark_V. on 10/21/12

No Mark,it's the fundamentalists who are wrong,GOD'S word is true!
The difference between you and I (don't take it as derogatory) is that you ,like others, are a Paulite and I am old fasion Christian . Jesus never talked hocus-pocus in the body out of the body,nonsence!
There's no "secret society" that are priveledged. Even a child can undrstand plain simple truth! No pie-in-the-sky Shangrila .
Adam messed up, Jesus corrected it.
Too simple Mark?
---1st_cliff on 10/19/12

1Cliff 2: as I said before you put the passages and the blog with a reason. To advice the fundamentals they are wrong about the Word of God being Truth, because in your mind, they don't give you an answer that is ok with you. It will never be ok with you, what they say, here is why.

"These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, "nor can he know them" because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. 2:13,14).
For spiritual understanding you need the Holy Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 10/18/12

1Cliff, of course you think what I said is what you said. I didn't expect anything better from you, and that is not a put down either. How could I possibly convince you that Jesus Christ is not only Human, but also divine? Just not possible for me to do that. Only by the power of the Holy Spirit who is divine can lead you into all Truth by giving you understanding of which you yourself are not able to arrive at (Acts 8:31). And since I am not the Holy Spirit all I can do is bring the Truth to you, and that is it. I cannot give you understanding. And you will not understand spiritual truth until God draws you to Himself and teaches you the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 10/17/12

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Mark V, Your post is what I call "psychobabble" (this is not a put down)
IE Jesus was human but still God but not exactly 100% God because He was in human form therefore was submitting to His own will,but not exactly because He was and was not almighty God at the same time,but He didn't know the day or hour (proving He was not 100% God) but he was not only God but the Holy Spirit at the same time but not quite?????????
Saying you're a little "mixed up" would be putting it mildly!
---1st_cliff on 10/17/12

HE meant that Man would ge a higher intellagence than the birds and other animals. meaning, knowing what sin is and right from wrong.
---angel on 10/17/12

You will never understand the Bible until you accept the fact that Jesus Christ was God Himself in human form.
---Mark_V. on 10/17/12

AMEN! Although I do believe 1st Cliff already knows this.

So Jesus human nature, just like our human nature has a will of it's own that through Jesus obedience of not my will but thine, He showed us that we must put aside our human will to do the Will of God.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/12

Good for you Cliff! Excellent question!
---JackB on 10/17/12

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1Cliff, when Jesus answered that it was the Fathers will, He was speaking from His human nature which was submissive to the Father. He was not speaking from His divine nature. The same holds true when He said He didn't know the time or the hour. The heretics like to confuse the words of the Bible using the words of the biblical Christ in His human nature. God, in His human nature was the Christ. When He came as a man, He spoke from His human nature. He did the will of the Father. Yet, He was God Himself in His divine nature. He was One with God the Father. You will never understand the Bible until you accept the fact that Jesus Christ was God Himself in human form.
---Mark_V. on 10/17/12

MarkV>>>>Jesus was not jumping up and down in going to the cross for His people, No. Jesus was in total obedience to the Father even to the cross. True Christians should follow suit.
---pat on 10/16/12

1st Cliff,great point. Jesus was our example,Teaching us to say as well, "not my will, but thine be done".

That takes a total surrendering of our own will to do His will.

If we have no free will, and are always doing God's will, then those saved would actually be sinless and never sin. Because it would be saying God is sinning against Himself every time you choose to sin.

If you don't have free will before salvation, you certainly wouldn't be given free will after salvation. Yet you say you still sin.

Romans 12:1-2 say, Present yourself a living sacrifice unto God, -----so that you may "KNOW" the will of God.

Jesus was totally surrendered to the Father to do the will of the Father.
---kathr4453 on 10/16/12

Mark V, You didn't answer my question ,what was Jesus talking about when He said "not my will but your will be done" What was Jesus' will at that moment (He mentioned it)
Two wills are mentioned here ,were either of these wills "free?" Did he not choose His Father's will "freely"? Are you saying He was "forced"?
---1st_cliff on 10/16/12

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Romans 6:11
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So scripture teaches that we are ALIVE UNTO GOD Through Christ. No one can come to the Father except through His Son. So GOD is not reaching down making anyone alive to Christ. It's Christ who makes us ALIVE UNTO GOD!

And it's the preahing of the Gospel empowered by the Holy Spirit that points to Christ. The Holy Spirit CONVICTS of SIN.
---kathr4453 on 10/16/12

With the fall of man in chapter 3 came a curse upon the ground and the animal kingdom, thus, man's control is not what Adam's was before his sin. From the fvery beginning it was God's plan that man work and be a fully responsible steward of God's creation. [Man was to live in Kingly fashion].....Rule over: A degree of Sovereignty control, and direction over nature.
---pat on 10/16/12

There is no scripture where God just reaches down and makes anyone ALIVE "to" Christ.

We are made Alive "IN CHRIST" when we repent first of sin, being brought under conviction of Sin, and then it is repentance UNTO LIFE.

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted "repentance unto life."

Repentence first...LIFE Follows. To be made ALIVE "IN CHRIST" is that act of first being buried with Him and Raised up together with Him. The Raising up together with Him is where we are quickened together WITH CHRIST.

Justified by His Blood and then saved BY HIS LIFE.
---kathr4453 on 10/16/12

1Cliff, you now ask,

"Are you Christian because you can't help it or is serving God your desire?"

Cliff, I was lost in trespasses and sin, and God reach down and drew me to Himself. He made me alive to Christ. I never desired Christ while I was lost. No one does,
"There is none righteous, no, not one. There is none who understands, there is none who seeks after God" (Rom. 3:10,11).
All the lost are separated from God. Now, as a Christian I desire to do the will of God. It was not by my will but by the will and mercy of God,
"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, "to those who are called according to His purpose" (Rom. 8:28).
---Mark_V. on 10/16/12

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1Cliff, 2: If you desire to make a choice, your will is not free. So please don't call it free. You do have a will, but it's either in bondage to the desires of the enemy, or the desires of God. The Bible does not use the words free will, because God knows the will of man is not free. Free means free. Will means the will of man. If God had said, "you have a free will, make a choice," we would not know what to choose, we need to have a desire, motive, or inclination, in order to choose. We would stand there not knowing what to choose. God judges our motives and desires.
If the will of man is neutral, "Free" why would it choose the right or the left?
---Mark_V. on 10/16/12

"... free will is the ability to make choices without any prior prejudice, inclination, or disposition. For the will to be free it must act from a posture of neutrality, with absolutely no bias."

RC Sproul Chosen by God

This man wrote against the word of God which says in isaiah 1:16_17: "Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes, cease to do evil,Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."

To wrongdoers and evildoers without inclination or disposition, who had gone astray from the ways of God, he said basically, 'change'.

Most excellently expounded!
---Nana on 10/16/12

It is a deception that men are free from genetics, environment, emotions and lusts, to choose anything freely.
---Phil on 10/13/12

Oh But it's not a deception that God gave man a CONSCIENCE of which lies the will man. Now just because those from Adam to Noah seered their own conscience bringing judgement upon the earth, in no way states man inherited that seered conscience as man inherited through Adam separation=sin.

And it was because of sin, that the Conscience of right and wrong, to know both good and evil were birthed.

Therefore man is responsible because he has a conscience called the will of man: that is, his emotions, reason and intellect are seated in the will regardless of his fallen nature.
---kathr4453 on 10/15/12

God will NEVER force anyone to go against his own conscience.

The WILL of God is stated in his Covenant promises. The Mind of God /desires of God have been made known to us through His Word and Covenant promises. "God's will" is not some FORCE to overpower or over force you by His Will, Anymore than satan can overpower you. The act is all your own, when you are carried away BY YOUR OWN lusts and desires.

Yet we know Satan is very powerful himself. But we know Satan is not WILLING you to do this or that either..overpowering your will.

Nor is God. James makes that perfectly clear that man's choices are not blamed on God or attributed to God
---kathr4453 on 10/15/12

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Mark V, Your definition of free will is abstract and illogical!
Desire governs free will.
Are you Christian because you can't help it or is serving God your desire? You can worship a piece of concrete or a wooden stick if that's your desire (will)
Responsible people make out a "will" to dispose of their assets when they die!
Jesus said "not my will but yours" what was He talking about???
I hope you religion is not making you a little loopy!
---1st_cliff on 10/15/12

1Cliff 2: The most common definition says free will is the ability to make choices without any prior prejudice, inclination, or disposition. For the will to be free it must act from a posture of neutrality, with absolutely no bias. If our will's were free, and I made a choice strictly from a neutral posture, with no inclination, then I make a choice for no reason. If I have no reason for my choice, If my choice is utterly spontaneous, then my choice has no moral significance. If my choice has no moral significance and it just happens, it just pops out, with no reason for it, then it cannot be judged good or bad. Without motive there would be no choice. The lost have a motive, the believer has a motive, neither has free will.
---Mark_V. on 10/15/12

1Cliff, the passage you gave speaks about what they desired. Their will was not free. A will that is free, it has no desires or reasons, it's free, neutral. Jesus said,
"Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My Word" They are not able, know why? Because, "you are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do" Their desires were in bondage to the will of the devil, that's why they were not able.
Now hear the first part of your passage,
"Mark V, The one I like best is Josh.24.15. "But if serving the Lord seems undesireable to you," Their desires was not to choose to follow God. Yes they chose, what their wills desired.
---Mark_V. on 10/15/12

Mark V, The one I like best is Josh.24.15. "But if serving the Lord seems undesireable to you,then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve,wheather the gods your forefathers served beyond the river,or the gods of the Amonites in whose land you are living.But as for me and my household we will serve the Lord"!
Free choice is free will!
---1st_cliff on 10/15/12

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1Cliff, I'm glad you just didn't get up and run, maybe I will learn something from you and then again I might not. So since you said that man has a "free will." and I respect your question, then show me one passage where God tells us in His Word that man has a will that is free? We are talking about the will of men here. You say its free and I say show me with God's Word.
At least one passage where God says, man has a free will to choose Christ or to choose anything. Because as far as I know, no one chooses without a reason. And if he has a reason, it is not free. If the will has no reason (free) then it is a spontanious choice. Have you ever chosen ice cream spontaniously?
---Mark_V. on 10/15/12

Mark V, Who's running?
I merely pointed out that you say we don't have free will but you "chose" your belief, Choice is free will, get it?
---1st_cliff on 10/14/12

1Cliff, you sure took the easy way out when question about the things of God. Right away you run and excuse yourself by saying, you will believe what you want. If you don't care to answer that is ok. But it was you who was complaining and then I answered and right away you run. That was pretty simple.
---Mark_V. on 10/14/12

Phil,**One man or family or tribe could have determined not to sin**
Read the book of Job!

Mark V, You obviously choose to believe the way you do like Muslims choose Islam,Hindus choose Hinduism,LDS choose Mormonism etc..
But somehow with no free will you were destined to be wrong!
---1st_cliff on 10/14/12

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1Cliff, your answers are wrong again. God is the only One perfect. Thats the way He wanted it. What He created was good, not perfect. He is the Potter after all. He molded everything the way He desired, with people given the ability to sin. They all choose to sin. No one is without sin but Christ who is after all God. All Israel were sinners just like all other nations. They worshipped other gods all through history. The only reason they were protected from other nations was because God had ordained that Jesus Christ would come through their linage. From the very beginning man failed. The question was why did God permit them to fail? You could say, because He wanted. But why did He wanted to see them fail? He knew they would if given a choice.
---Mark_V. on 10/14/12

#4 He selected one race to be His exclusive people ,but they too kept making wrong choises!
---1st_cliff on 10/13/12

And, with all this supposed freewill available to mankind, at least ONE man or family or tribe could have determined not to sin.

History, scriptural evidence, and God Himself, have all repudiated this false teaching. Why do you cling to it?

Free will is a fable. It is from the pit, and glorifies man above God Who the only Sovereign One, who works all things according to the counsel of His own will.

It is a deception that men are free from genetics, environment, emotions and lusts, to choose anything freely.
---Phil on 10/13/12

Mark V, You said "if he (Adam) was created perfect he would never have sinned"
So you're saying God created an imperfect world? Even after declaring it "good?"
I said "not all CHOOSE to sin" Is sin your choice? You are suggesting that you do not have a choice,you do and so does everyone "Whosoever will"
If we were unable to sin we would be "controlled" like robots!
Why them? (Israelites)because the linage from Shem showed a desire to serve their Creator rather than some invented god!
---1st_cliff on 10/13/12

1Cliff, your answers don't answer,
1. you said because man has a free choice and that not all choose to sin.
A. Wrong, All man sin, all come short of the glory of God. And why did God permit them to sin? He could have created them unable to sin.
2. you said, Adam was created perfect with free will.
A. If he was created perfect he would have never sin. Something perfect never fails.
3. you said. because they (the devil and demons) test humans as to their choices.
A. God could have kept Satan out of the garden if He so wanted, His God.
4. You said, He selected one race to be His exclusive people.
A. But why them? Why not another nation? God made the choice but why them? They were sinners just like the other nations.
---Mark_V. on 10/13/12

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Mark V, Permit me to fill in the gaps,
#1 Because man has a free choice (not all choose to sin)
#2 Because Adam was created perfect with free will
#3 Because they "test" humans as to their choises
#4 He selected one race to be His exclusive people ,but they too kept making wrong choises!
---1st_cliff on 10/13/12

1Cliff, not everything God does is explainable. Some understand some things, others understand other things. Some don't understand anything. Our lives as believers is of faith, faith in God, faith in His Word, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. This faith is given to us by God the Spirit as a gift when we are born of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit testifies of Christ, Christ testifies of the Father. But none of this can be possible if we do not have the Holy Spirit. Without the Spirit we question the very word of God.
1. Why permit man to sin?
2. Why chose Adam as our representative?
3. Why permit Satan and His demons to work in the world?
4. Why choose Israel over other nations?
These are just a few,
---Mark_V. on 10/12/12

Family, time for me to attempt at least, I believe that He meant, ,to have tener dominio.sobre. toda creatura, which means man was to dominate ..and rule over every living creature. animal kingdom. ELENA
---ELENA on 10/9/12

1Cliff, you should not let anyone make you feel like you are a second hand Christian, whatever that is. If their answers are good, they will reveal something to you that maybe you never saw before concerning a perticular passage. Not everyone has all the Truth revealed to them. The Spirit works differently with everyone depending on their commitment to the Lord. Some brothers have been Christian for two or three years and they are far ahead of others who have been Christian for over twenty years. Everyday I see something new that I did not see before in a perticular passage. The Spirit uses others to bring the Truth which is written. Anyway, peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 10/9/12

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Mark V, Because the know-it-all fundamentalists are forever jumping on me as somekind of second-hand Christian.
I don't have total knowledge but at least all the pieces fit together.
No mysterious gaps!
If it's not logical, reasonable or spirit of a sound mind then it's not true!
Everything God does or purposes is explainable, He does not resort to magic!
---1st_cliff on 10/9/12

1Cliff, you said,

"I posed the question because I knew fundamentalists would not answer. It would reveal gaps in their knowledge."

Why would you want to reveal gaps in their knowledge? What purpose would it serve you? How can you edify someone with the Truth that way? Wouldn't it be more productive to explain the Truth, and let God take care of the rest? Even if you find fault in others, your purpose only has a purpose for you, not for the glory of God. I disagree with many on certain subjects but agree with many on other subjects, I give the Truth as I know it, and hope that God will use it for His own purpose and will. Some questions are good to ask, because it causes many to study more, but for the glory of God.
---Mark_V. on 10/8/12

Mark V, Ever hear the phrase "silence is golden?"
I posed the question because I knew fundamentalists would not answer. It would reveal gaps in their knowledge.
IE was the 10 commandments just written for Moses?
The command to Adam was for everyone.
Now how do we obey that command?
---1st_cliff on 10/7/12

1Cliff, so what is your point for asking the questions in the first place? You say it is the fundamentalist attempt to add to God's word, and you yourself tried to add to the word things not written, go back and check, so are you a fundamentalist? are you mad at yourself? What is undersood by many is that when it says, death came to all men, it really means all mankind, But you do not have to believe that, it is your right. It's also your right to not try to find out the meaning God had for those passages. It changes nothing what is already in the Word.
---Mark_V. on 10/7/12

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Mark V, Rule over was not a definition it was a command!
The command was "Rule over" so OK go rule over, how do you go about obeying this "command?"
Scripture says that through one man death came on all "men" it does not mention creatures. This is the attempt by fundamentalists to "add" to God's word their own ideas!
---1st_cliff on 10/6/12

1Cliff, you think you are a wise guy, trying to bring to question what God says in His Word. The Bible does not answer how man was "" to have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air etc' (v.1:26,27). What we know is that God was defining man's unique relation to creation. Man was God's representive in ruling over creation. The command to rule separated him from the rest of lving creation and defined his relationship as above the rest of creation (Ps. 8:6-8).
Concerning killing animals, God mentions neither, kill or not kill, but we do know God killed an animal after the fall of man. And because of the curse, death came to man and animals, because we know we and they at sometime will die.
---Mark_V. on 10/6/12

Mark V, It should be no problem for you to give an example of how one might "rule over" fish and birds given that, as you say, they were never meant to die!
Where,anywhere in the bible,is the command not to kill animals in view of the fact that the first thing God did after Adam sinned was to kill animals to clothe them!
---1st_cliff on 10/5/12

1Cliff, I really don't see anything wrong in saying that animals never died before Adam sinned. Why is it so hard to believe that? We are not given any time periods within actions of God. The only time periods given are the days of creation and even that is not positively accurate. We are not given anything on insects, and other animals. Or how many of each kind there were. The book of Genesis not every detail is given. Only those who want to question the Word of God, attempt to find something always wrong with what God said. Those people have no faith in His Word. Its ok to have questions, but they lack faith in what He said.
---Mark_V. on 10/4/12

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This is an important question for those that believe there was no death of creatures before Adams fall!
Having "dominion over" would involve limiting their numbers.
Imagine if rabbits never died,or any creature for that matter.
Wall-to-wall animals,fish,birds etc...!
---1st_cliff on 10/3/12

"Adam and Eve were given a charge by God to excercize dominion over the plant and animal creations, which included caring for the garden of Eden and it's inhabitants and enjoying it's fruits." Jed

... that was before Adam and Eve obeyed the serpent rather than God's command. After which, they completely lost their dominion over the creation then sin and death now have dominion over mankind. Only God Almighty can remove that curse He placed on man for the disobedience of Adam and Eve.
---christan on 10/1/12

It means we have the right to domesticate them, or to kill them for food and clothing, or as pests. That would include fish and insects. It goes against the theories of PETA and their like. on 10/2/12

I think the best example of what was originally in Eden can be found in domestic animals, and canines in particular.

It is more of a recognition that there's a hierachical arrangement, though unspoken. All my dogs have been like that.

I am presumining it was that way it in Eden before being driven out, only with all creatures, not just dogs.
---Phil on 10/2/12

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Adam and Eve were given a charge by God to excercize dominion over the plant and animal creations, which included caring for the garden of Eden and it's inhabitants and enjoying it's fruits.
---Jed on 10/1/12

I've asked this question many times on other blogs but no one answered!
Fundamentalists believe no creatures died before Adam sinned.
That situation would mean this command had no merit.
How does a farmer "manage" his livestock????
How do you "rule over" fish???birds???
No comment????
---1st_cliff on 10/1/12

Rulers have the power and authority, and are in charge. So from that you can probably figure the rest out. on 10/1/12

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