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Abortion Talk At School

I was talking at school about abortion and how wrong it is and the librarian told me to stop talking because abortion is an opinion. What should I have done?

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 ---Nina on 11/26/12
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Jed: Were you this outraged when George W. Bush issued any of his 291 Executive Orders between 2001 and 2009? You see, all of the presidents issue them. Or, are you only upset because this order was done by Obama?
---Trish on 1/24/13

NurseRoberts, Are you telling me you're not intelligent enough to understand the 2nd amendment which consists of 1 single sentence? It's pretty plain and simply stated.

I also know that presidents use executive orders all the time. The difference is the manner and situation they use them in. Executive orders are to be used in emergencies, in situations that require immediate action. They are certainly not to be used to bypass the normal process for enacting laws (which is through congressional vote) in order to advance your own party's political agenda when you know that congress will never pass these laws. Obama openly said the reason he used executive order is because congress would not pass these laws.
---Jed on 1/24/13

Jed, I have to repeat, your ignorance of how politics and laws work in this country is amazing. Do you even have a clue as to what an executive order is? Do you have a clue as to how many presidents have used executive orders to run the country? I think not.

Who decides what is Constitutional? Certainly not you or me.

I believe you are reasonably intelligent, but in this area you are clueless.
---NurseRobert on 1/24/13

Nurseroberts, I don't believe for one minute that you are truly as stupid as you make yourself out to be. Why do you try to portray yourself in that way? You can't possibly honestly think it is constitutional or ethical for the president to usurp the constitutional process for passing laws though congress, and instead using executive order, simply because he knows it would not be approved by congress.
---Jed on 1/23/13

Jed Quotes:
I guess the low-information liberal voters (1/21/13)
....unconstitutional laws passed by the liberal senate. (1/20/13)
Any law that infringes upon, or even seeks to limit, the right ... to bear arms is unconstitutional. (1/21/13)

You have made insulting people into an art. Are you misspeaking or ignorant about how laws are made? Look up "Schoolhouse Rock Bill". You would learn a lot.

DC v. Heller: SCOTUS determined you do NOT have the unfettered right to any weapon you want. Executive orders help officers and agencies of the executive branch manage the operations within the federal government and have the full force of law. They are not unconstitutional until SCOTUS says they are.
---NurseRobert on 1/23/13

Wow, NurseRoberts, that was a really intelligent response, did you come up with that one all on your own? You just totally proved your intellectual superiority by calling people ignorant when you have nothing left to say.
---Jed on 1/22/13

Are American Citizens under any obligation to obey unconstitutional executive orders from an egocentric dictator?

---jerry6593 on 1/22/13

Jed, your ignorance knows no bounds
---NurseRobert on 1/22/13

Wow, way too much stupidity at once to address in a single post. I already explained why executive orders can't be used to bypass congress (will of the people) and usurp the constitution. There is a process laid out in the constitution for creating laws and amending the constitution. It's not supposed to be an easy task as is supposed to require a general consensus in order to prevent tyranny and an overbearing government. Attempting to do this any other way than what is laid out in the constitution is unconstitutional.
---Jed on 1/22/13

StrongAxe, from another thread. If as you say the 'dust' means Adam was made from a preexistant creature then were there no female preexistant creatures from whom Eve could evolve? If so how did the imagined preexistant creatures propagate themselves if there were no females? Remember Eve was made from Adam's side Genesis 2:21.

Genesis 3:19 ".... for dust you are and to dust you will return." Evolutionists claim man came from a preexistant creature they call the missing link. By your reasoning we must revert to this creature when we die.
---Warwick on 1/21/13

I guess the low-information liberal voters on here have much to learn about history and the constitution.
---Jed on 1/21/13


If a president issues orders without authority, anyone could sue and the Supreme Court would shut him down. That a conservative court has not done so implies that they, the Ultimate Constitutional Arbiters, don't think it's warranted.


Tweak? Who is screaming here? You call everyone names. I just say "you shoudn't do so without cause", and you accuse ME of being tweaked? Again, this sounds like a man with a tree in his eye screaming about the slivers in everybody else's.

Remember Jesus's kingdom is not of his world. When people waste more time whining about mundane political issues than things Jesus ACTUALLY TAUGHT ABOUT, *THEN* we need to worry.
---StrongAxe on 1/21/13

Jed, you should read DC v. Heller (which is very obvious you never have). The SCOTUS ruled the 2d Amendment does not give you the right to unfettered possession any weapon you chose.

Presidents have used executive orders for years which included integration of the armed forces and desegration of schools. The SCOTUS has ruled time and time again that Executive orders are constitutional. Obama's executive orders are not unconstitutional until SCOTUS says they are.

I am amazed at how little you know of how government works.
---NurseRobert on 1/21/13

Jed: 1. Where does it say that executive orders are only for when Congress is not in session?

2. To get an amendment added to the constitution, a certain number of states must ratify it, in addition to passage by Congress.
---Trish on 1/21/13

Jed: The law being discussed is not taking away all of your precious guns. People will still be able to purchase guns. It's the type of gun being removed from the market. It's obviously not unconstitutional to prevent certain guns from being available. There has been overwhelming support for the restrictions from all types of people, including NRA members. It's also not unconstitutional to require background checks. Like I said, the president is an expert on the constitution.
---Trish on 1/21/13

BTW: the unconstitutional part i was talking about was Obama using executive orders in order to bypass congress and the constitution. Executive Orders are not to be used to bypass congress in order to force his own party's agenda into law when congress will not pass his bills. That's the whole point of having a congress, to limit the power of the president, otherwise, he is a dictator. Executive orders are only for emergencies when congress is not in session. They are not for creating major long term changes to the law. Also, they cannot supersede the constitution. There is a process for amending the constitution when need be, and that process is done by congress, not through executive order of the president.
---Jed on 1/21/13

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It's pretty simple Nurse Roberts. Even a low information voter like you could probably even figure it out. Just read the 2nd Ammendment. Any law that infringes upon, or even seeks to limit, the right of the people to bear arms is unconstitutional.
---Jed on 1/21/13

StrongAxe, after the recent unconstitutional executive orders on gun control....
---Jed on 1/21/13

Tell, us Jed, in your learned judicial experience, how were these orders unconstitutional.
---NurseRobert on 1/21/13

Jed: There was nothing unconstitutional about the call for limiting gun sales and insisting on background checks for gun purchases. We have a balance of powers to protect against such things. If a law is unconstitutional, lawyers can argue the issue before the Supreme Court.

I think it's funny that so many holler about the constitutionality of something the president does given that he is considered a constitutional expert, having taught it in law school.
---Trish on 1/21/13

Jed, this court has been the most conservative court in years, the conservatives hold a majority and STILL have not overturned Roe...

Also, someone as smart as you should know the Senate does not pass laws, they pass bills, that have to agreed to by the house and signed by the President to become laws.
---NurseRobert on 1/21/13

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Axey: You left-wing liberals are so easy to tweak! Why don't you get your head out of the sand before we no longer have a country to discuss?

---jerry6593 on 1/21/13

StrongAxe, after the recent unconstitutional executive orders on gun control, are you seriously trying to tell us that Obama doesn't bypass congress to do what he wants?
---Jed on 1/21/13


You said: Well, you can thank people like Trish for voting a Communist Dictator into office.

Wow. THREE violations of "Thou shalt not bear false witness" in one sentence!

Communists don't let you own property. Dictators do what they want without congressional approval. Trish explained her part.

Before constantly accusing others, please check facts, and tone down the hysteria. Otherwise, you sound like a man with a tree in his eye screaming about others' splinters (Matthew 7:3-5, Luke 6:41-42).

American Christians have it easy compared to Judea 2000 years ago. Government doesn't make us worship other gods, or feed us to lions for sport. We should all man up and stop whining.
---StrongAxe on 1/20/13

Any good librarian will maintain for all that a library is not the place for conversing, but for quiet research and reading or headphone listening. It is disruptive to other patrons for people to engage in conversation for all to hear. I think you should be quiet in a library. When I was in high school, abortion was a subject for debate class, not the library. The library is to be quiet, like study hall. Exercise your freedom of speech in the lunch room or school bus or break time.
---bike on 1/20/13

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Jed: the Conservative Congress prevents the Liberal laws from passing.
---Trish on 1/20/13

Trish, but you do continue to support, and probably vote, for extremely radical pro-abortion politicians who advance the abortion movement and a president who appoints leftist judges to the Supreme Court who continue to advance ungodly agendas instead of good conservative judges who can overturn Roe V. Wade and other unconstitutional laws that are passed by the liberal senate.
---Jed on 1/20/13

Jerry, since the topic is free speech and abortion, I can only guess that you are blaming me for the Supreme Court's decision on Roe v Wade. Problem is, I was in tenth grade when that decision was handed down. I did not start voting till November 1975. So, I can't take the blame for that one. Also, our country was a mess long before Obama took office.

Instead of blaming politicians, or voters, try blaming the believers in our country for not praying for the souls of Americans.

Too many self-righteous, so called Christians like to finger point over politics when they should be praying for lost souls.
---Trish on 1/20/13

Shira: "I can't believe our great country has come to what it is now."

Well, you can thank people like Trish for voting a Communist Dictator into office.

---jerry6593 on 1/20/13

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Jed: I stand corrected.
---Trish on 1/5/13

Trish, Compassion and feeling sorry for someone are the same thing.
---Jed on 1/4/13

So true, Shira.
---Jed on 12/31/12

this is not concerning mental issues but I know the time is near where our health care will depend on a panel that doesn't know us at all. they will dictate who can get treatment and who can't. I heard health care workers discussing the hike in medical field after Jan 1. this won't affect me a whole lot but it will affect my children and grandchildren. we need to pray for our country who is being taken over by a dictator. I can't believe our great country has come to what it is now.
---shira4368 on 12/31/12

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so the Librarian expressed his/her opinion that abortion is an opinion and silenced your opinion?

abortion is murder. lawmakers decided to give baby killing a fancy technical made-up medical name to make it more appealing to the masses and desensitize ignorant people to murdering defenseless babies. In the near future we will have a medical term to snuff-out (murder) senior citizens too because a society uncaring toward babies will look to the next easy victims.

You should have asked the Librarian for a list of acceptable topics to discuss if one could not be produced continue talking.
---Follower_of_Christ on 12/28/12

Jed: Back when we were discussing the legitimacy of the mentally ill disability recipients I was always referring to the illnesses I described in this blog. Unfortunately, you and I did not see that we agreed with each other at the time.

As for empathy, it is different from sympathy. I don't feel sorry for the adults who aren't aware they can change their behavior and lives. I feel compassion.
---Trish on 12/28/12

Trish, in other blogs in the past you have argued that all mental illness are legit, when I said that most of the people I have met in my profession that were labeled as "mentally ill" were not legit. My argument on those blogs was that many people receiving disability due to "mental illnesses" like the ones I mentioned here are actually just spoiled brats who are as capable of working as I am. You were hellbent are arguing with me then. Why now the sudden realization that being a bad person is not a mental illness?
---Jed on 12/27/12

Trish, continued...

To answer your question about sympathy: I believe people are ultimately responsible for their own behavior. If you are lazy, irresponsible, and mean, it's because you choose to be that kind of person. You can't go around your whole life blaming your parents. People do have the ability to make choices and decide what kind of person they want to be. And I don't think that not having a proper example in your life is a good excuse for not living right. From what I have seen, mostly the reason people don't change is because they refuse to try. I grew up in an abusive home and never taught how to live and I have been places in my life you couldn't imagine but I don't use that as an excuse to be a bad person.
---Jed on 12/27/12

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people...who make excuses for plain old irresponsibility, laziness, habitual lying, stealing, and other bad behaviors, and call it a mental illness instead of what it really is. ---Jed on 12/25/12

yep. i remember when an drug addict including alcohol was ostracized until he/she got it together. friends/family would gather around and protect the immediate family members. now, we celebrate the addict, call it a disease and even if that person never uses again, life revolves around that person.

underlying message: i would claim responsibility, but it's not my fault.
---aka on 12/28/12

Jed: Why do you say you can't stand people like me, when I just told you I don't consider the disorders you described real mental illnesses? The problem is I have empathy for the ones who never had a good therapist, with strong boundaries, work with them in making the necessary changes. Too many people are raised without rules or boundaries and then they marry enablers. These people have no clue there is anything wrong, till they are either arrested or somehow land in therapy.
---Trish on 12/27/12

Pastor D, welcome on board. You said that mental illness is not cause by sin. Are you saying that if Adam had not fallen and sin had not come into the world there would still be mental illness?
Or are you saying that people mentally ill are not mentally ill because they sinned?
Because what I believe is that because of the fall, and sin entering the world, all kinds of things because true, death, illness, murder rape etc, are the result of sin coming into the world. If sin had not entered, all things would be ok forever. What did you mean?
---Mark_V. on 12/26/12

Trish, you named only the few diagnosis that probably are real mental illnesses. Yes, I believe things like Schizophrenia are real. The 99% of the DSM that you didn't mention are diagnosis like Opositional Defiance Disorder, Explosive Anger Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, and Narcicism, "disorders" that describe people who don't want to take responsibility or follow by the rules and treat the people around them like trash. You're right, I have no sympathy for people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions. And I can't stand people like you who make excuses for plain old irresponsibility, laziness, habitual lying, stealing, and other bad behaviors, and call it a mental illness instead of what it really is.
---Jed on 12/25/12

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trish, I never said mental illness is caused by not working. where did you get that from? I was attempting to focus on america who is going down the tubes. what I said was many people don't work and expect the government to hand them everything. guess the cell phones done me in. even the commercial shows an older couple in a beautiful home saying thanks for the free cell phone so they can call their grandkids. that one actually made me sick. people who grew up in my young years worked or they didn't eat. the bible tells us if we want to eat, we work. I think the mind can get sick just like the body. some mental illness is demon activity. I feel really sad for people who are struggling with mental issues.
---shira4368 on 12/24/12

Jed: I happen to believe that bipolar disorder, clinical depression, non-bipolar mania, and schizophrenia are the real mental illnesses. I believe the rest of the DSM is learned behaviors.

So, Jed, which of the true mental illnesses is caused by not having to work?

The problem is,you lack empathy for anyone that struggles with the learned issues, because they couldn't control the factors in which they were raised, and consequently learned those behaviors. Unfortunately, there are too many adults who never have the benefit of someone taking the time to help them make the behavioral changes necessary to grow up and take responsibility for their lives.
---Trish on 12/24/12

Most of what people call "mentally ill" is actually people who have life so easy they actually have to invent their own tramas to convince themselves that life is tough. Most of these people have simply never been told "no" before and have had everything they want when they want it. And they expect real life to be like that when it's not. And this is what people like Trish call mental illness.
---Jed on 12/24/12

There is certainly a spirited debate here... Speaking as a pastor and someone with an advanced degree in Psychology I can say this with all confidence: Mental illness is often misunderstood by behavioral health clinicians and Christians. First, the assertion that all mental illness is caused by chemical imbalance is incorrect. The data to support this notion only applies to some (not all) disorders and it is correlational (not causal). Second, some believers assert that all mental illness is the result of sin (or demonic influence), this is also incorrect. Again, some mental illness can be attributed to these forces but there is no scriptural support for this as a blanket statement.
---Pastor_D on 12/24/12

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Jed: I asked for specific diagnoses that are caused by not working, using empirical evidence. You have failed to give me that. My being a patient has nothing to do with this question. I studied enough psychology and social work to know that research giving empirical evidence is what is used to define diagnoses in the mental health field. Your conservative attacks are not based on empirical evidence.
---Trish on 12/24/12

Trish, I have explained it several times and you will never listen, obviously because you (by your own admission) are long time mental patient yourself. You would never admit that many mentally ill people choose their illness and are actually the cause of their own mental illness.
---Jed on 12/24/12

Jed: Enlighten me. What mental illnesses are caused by not having to work. I'd prefer emperical evidence.
---Trish on 12/24/12

I know of no mental illnesses caused by not having to work.
---Trish on 12/17/12

Well then it appears that you are actually the one who is misinformed about mental illness.
---Jed on 12/23/12

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MarkV: I totally agree with you on the origin of all illness and death is Sin as a result of the Fall in the Garden. My point is that I would not discuss that Truth with someone struggling with any illness, whether physical or mental. I would pray for wisdom on if/when that Truth should be discussed with a friend, or family member, suffering from either type of illness. But, as I said at the very beginning, I totally agree with you on the origin of Sin and the Fall.
---Trish on 12/23/12

Sis. Trish, I was speaking to you concerning sin, not to the mental people, or those with cancer. If the people with cancer were believers they would know what causes cancer, sin does which comes from the curse. My sister got treatment and lasted almost five years.
Of course you want to treat it as much as you can. Also the mental people need treatment. It will not cure what they have, only control it many times. But my point was that as a Christian believers should call it was is, why many die, get sick, born mentally ill, it is Sin. The blame goes to sin.
---Mark_V. on 12/21/12

Trish: "Jerry: That diagnosis is not in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual-IV"

Just goes to show how inadequate some books can be, particularly when we base our understanding on liberal academia.

---jerry6593 on 12/21/12

MarkV: I am aware that all illness was caused by the Fall in the Garden. That doesn't mean we don't treat any particular illness with meds or therapy. When I had knee surgery, I needed physical therapy so I could walk without pain. Cancer patients usually get chemotherapy or radiation therapy or both. Well, the mentally ill need medication and psychotherapy. Would you tell a cancer patient their illness was caused by sin? Well, telling a mentally ill patient that their illness is caused by sin could have some serious, negative repurcussions.
---Trish on 12/20/12

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Sis. Trish, mental illness is caused by sin. Killings and murder because of sin. Illness and death is also caused by sin. If we call it what it is, we only have to blame sin.
As long as God permits sin to continue we are going to see some nasty stuff happening everywhere just as it has been since sin entered the world. It's seems worse now but only because there is more people now. One day God will do away with sin. It's a good thing that God is the Restrainer of sin, or no one would be left alive. People are very evil. But not as evil as they could be only because of God.
---Mark_V. on 12/20/12

Jerry: That diagnosis is not in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual-IV (DSM-IV). I doubt it is in DSM-V either.
---Trish on 12/20/12

Yes! Bro.MarkV. so glad you tell it.for every country guilty! I was surprized on see videos in Cuba lots young people/ home churches pentecostal( this is Illegal there) mostly from what I see/ they stopped old people they afraid stil old regime & of coarse, many still.idolatry dominate their mind set.Fear of the truth! Rom.13:11-12,14.
---ELENA on 12/19/12

Trish: "I know of no mental illnesses caused by not having to work."

I do! It's called the Liberal Democrat Mindset, and it is epidemic in our country. It is not genetic, but is caused by lifelong indoctination by propaganda. It is most difficult to cure, since it seems to form an impenetrable barrier to logical thought.

---jerry6593 on 12/19/12

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Sis. Shira, the world has turned their back on God. Every nation. Some worse then others. Sin is everywhere. People here in America, are shocked children are been murdered while the adults vote to murder millions of children through abortion. What should the children who are born expect concerning life? Their parents think so little about life, why should they be different? people living a life without God, what should we expect? In Sudan millions of Christians, man, woman and children are being exterminated. No one does anything there for the Christian. They are not important Christians. Sin is behind it all. Every country has their share of sin.
---Mark_V. on 12/19/12

Shira, you seem to be misinformed about mental illness. Serious mental illnesses are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain, and are believed to be genetic. Some are traced back to childhood traumas, and can be helped with therapy. I know of no mental illnesses caused by not having to work.
---Trish on 12/17/12

jerry, amen I agree with you. we have turned our back on God as a nation. how can we expect things to be the way they were in the 40's and 50's. my dad use to go to the mill village and preach. can you see that happening now. there is no mill village now. the government makes sure everyone has a new house, a free phone, free food, free education and many more entitlements. we were raised poor but we always had food and a warm bed. my mother use to heat water and put it in a water bottle and get our beds warmed. we didn't suffer mental illness because we had to work for what we got.
---shira4368 on 12/16/12

trey: "Political Correctness will be the death of this country! What ever happen to "Thus sayeth the Lord"?"

Amen! PC is a violation of our 1st Amendment right to free speech. When I was young, we were taught that "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me". Now, it is a crime just to "hate" someone - as if the Gov't could actually read the minds of individuals. The liberal Democrats have made us a nation of sissies.

---jerry6593 on 12/16/12

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Political Correctness will be the death of this country! What ever happen to "Thus sayeth the Lord"?

We wonder why our country is the way it is when we cast God out of our schools, political parties, and life. Then we wonder why he doesn't jump in to intervene when things go wrong.

Maybe it's time someone stood up and said, "I could care less about what the world has to say or the feelings of the worldly and wicked! I care about my God, and his children!" It breaks my heart how far we've fallen.

It is my belief that we are going to get what we deserve in the years to come. Maybe when things get bad we will seek his face???
---trey on 12/15/12

Jed: teachers 'should not be telling students what is right and wrong.'

Is that not part of a teachers job? It was thought to be at least up to about 1960 - at least in the days when right and wrong were thought to be 'facts'
---Peter on 12/2/12

Nina: Aren't opinions covered under freedom of speech?

---jerry6593 on 11/28/12

Trish, yes agreed ,)
---Jed on 11/27/12

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Jed: Believe it or not, I agree with you that teachers should not be talking about abortion in school.

It looks like, at first glance, we each thought Nina was something different.
---Trish on 11/27/12

Tell them this was your opinion - and make sure you back up your statements with facts. If they don't like your opinion, they can give theirs.
---wivv on 11/27/12

Trish, the way I read the original question, it sounded to me like a teacher was telling the student to stop saying abortion is wrong. If so, the librarian was in the wrong to even join the conversation. Students have every right to voice their beliefs. teachers on the other hand DO NOT, because they are government employees and are in a position of authority and should not be telling students what is right and wrong. Teachers shouldn't even be talking about abortion.

If Nina is an adult, she should not have even been allowed at the school to speak about abortion. Those matters should be discussed at home.
---Jed on 11/26/12

Perhaps you could get this clarified by making an appointment to see someone with more authority than the librarian has and ask why it was considered wrong to say what you said.

Opinions should not be stifled as everyone else would also have had their own.

Whether you are an adult or a pupil you should get this sorted.
---andreea on 11/27/12

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Jesus spoke in the presence of enemies, but also He took people where He could talk with them away from where trouble makers could try to stop Him from saying what He had to say.

It is good to spend time with people, so we can get into love relating with each other. Then we have love so we do not want to kill our own unborn with whom we can have love.

I notice how the librarian said nothing for or against religion, but still said something to stop you . . . so the librarian can't be criticized for directly speaking against religious freedom of speech, maybe. Clever devil.
---willie_c: on 11/27/12

Jed: I am assuming that Nina is an adult, and was speaking to a group of students on some topic. As a teacher, I often had different people who came in from the community to give talks to students on different topics. All of that would have had to been pre-approved by the administration.

If Nina is a student, then the librarian was wrong to correct her. Nina should have told her she has the right to share her beliefs about abortion.
---Trish on 11/26/12

Jed, a librarian is not numbered among the school's administration. But you are right. People can't just take it upon themselves to walk into a classroom talking about whatever.

\\ Maybe you can type up a few scriptures to hand out.
---grace-mercy on 11/26/12\\

That would go over as well as a pregnant pole vaulter, grace-mercy (not meaning to be so apt).

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/26/12

Trish, so now students have to have permission from the school administrator to share their opinion with other students?
---Jed on 11/26/12

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Nina, I am so pleased to hear that you had the courage to say that. Unless you interrupted a class discussion on another subject you were correct to say this and have a right to say it.

If this was done in your free time in the school library then this is a right you should have. I'm sure that others were voicing their opinions - some of which would have been the opposite of yours.

Did the librarian also reprimand them? If not, I suggest you tell your parents and ask them to deal with the fact that you were discriminated against because of your beliefs.
---Rita_H on 11/26/12

You could have told her that no, it's not an opinion, it's a belief in what the scripture says. Sometimes it's hard to come up with the right answer when you're put on the spot like that. Maybe you can type up a few scriptures to hand out.
---grace-mercy on 11/26/12

What were you doing there in the first place? Were you authorized to speak about abortion by the school administrator?
---Trish on 11/26/12

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