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Asking Dead Folks For Favors

Living people can talk to each other without praying because we are alive and present in the same physical realm. Can a living person talk to dead people in the spiritual realm without praying to them? Is there a difference between praying to dead saints vs. asking them for favors?

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 ---Jed on 11/4/13
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\\a country that is founded on a Holy God should elect Christians\\

This is a myth that has nothing to support it. In fact, the Treaty of Tripoli, which has the force of law, says that the government of the US is NOT founded on the Christian religion.

There are more people on various forms of public assistance lately, this is true. But it's the direct result of the policies of George Bush fils.

I spoke today with the site manager where I live about the egregious examples of welfare fraud you mentioned, and she said that in her 15 years of doing what she does, she knows of no such case.

BTW, what exactly do you mean by "welfare"? There is no US government program called that.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/4/13

\\There are far too few conservatives in the Demoncrat Party, and far too many liberals in the Republican Party.\\

Someone once said that what is called a Conservative in the USA is called a Liberal in Europe, and what is called a Liberal in the USA is called a Socialist in Europe.

A European Conservative does not exist in the USA.

Don't forget that the ideas of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were LIBERAL for their time. True Bible believing conservatives were monarchists.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/4/13

cluny, God's kingdom is not of this world but we still live in the world with corruption, politicians that lie, steal, commit fraud. I can't believe you haven't seen some of that. watch Obama and you will see plenty. the welfare rolls have doubled since he's been president. a country that is founded on a Holy God should elect Christians but see how satan works?
---shira4368 on 12/4/13

\\ Im sure cluny has too but he would die before he would admit it.
---shira4368 on 12/3/13\\

I am aware of no fraud. This is not the same as saying it doesn't exist. Any system can be gotten around if someone is intending to get around it. I myself try to play by the rules, and have suffered for it.

As far as trying to find the correct political party for Christians, Our Saviour Himself said, "My Kingdom is NOT of this world."

And His ancestor according to the flesh, David, no mean politician himself, said, "Put not your trust in princes [or politicians or their parties], in whom is NO salvation."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/4/13

jed, amen, amen. its sad how the leftist have ruined our country. oh, thanks for standing in the gap for me with cluny. Ive seen welfare fraud, va fraud. Im sure cluny has too but he would die before he would admit it.
---shira4368 on 12/3/13

Shira, the tea party is the only party for a true Christian.
---Jed on 12/3/13

yes jed, I know the tea party. I said Christian party not tea party. but...I like the tea party. it is one party who would like to restore America back to how it was founded. now, I know Ive opened a can of worms but that don't bother me either. the democrats would love to finish destroying prayer, Christmas, and crosses.
---shira4368 on 12/3/13

I would be happy with two parties if only they were correctly named - Liberal and Conservative. There are far too few conservatives in the Demoncrat Party, and far too many liberals in the Republican Party.

Elder: What's wrong with 4-year-olds voting? We have mental 4-year-olds running the country.

---jerry6593 on 12/3/13

Wow jerry, we know you are telling it like it is. Republicans are just as bad. Would be nice if we had 3 parties. republicans, democrats and Christian.

---shira4368 on 12/2/13

We do! Haven't you heard of the Tea Party?
---Jed on 12/2/13

Jed, there are 4 year olds and younger that have paid jobs in advertizing and Hollywood productions.
Do you want 4 year olds voting?

If you lose your job does that mean you should not vote because you are not paying income taxes?
---Elder on 12/2/13

Wow jerry, we know you are telling it like it is. Republicans are just as bad. Would be nice if we had 3 parties. republicans, democrats and Christian.
---shira4368 on 12/2/13

Jed: Congrats for using the correct expression "democrat petitions", rather that the commonly used "democratic petitions". There is nothing democratic about Democrats. They rule AGAINST the will of the populace.

I had another thought connecting the dead to Democrats. They're all dead from the neck up.

---jerry6593 on 12/1/13

Interesting hypothesis, Jerry. I guess that's why there have been so many dead folks who are able to sign democrat petitions too!
---Jed on 11/29/13

Jed: Again, my apologies for being off topic, but perhaps there is a way to harmonize the discussions. Perhaps Democrats actually think they are talking to dead people when they cause them to vote in large numbers in order to steal elections.

Grandma: Whether it is a test of literacy or a test of age, the goal is the same - a test of wisdom for voting. Large numbers of inner city youth (to use your example) voting as they are coerced is not a guarantor of wisdom. Quite the opposite.

---jerry6593 on 11/29/13

I do not agree with the voting age being raised. If anything it should be lowered to include people under the age of 18 who are paying taxes. It is not right that a 16 or 17 year old who is working and paying federal income tax has no right to vote on how those taxes are used but a 35 year old welfare recipient who pays no taxes can vote on how to spend taxpayer money! The fix is simple: No taxation without representation! And the reverse should also be true. If you are not supporting your country with taxes you should not be able to affect how other people are taxed. Age has nothing to do with maturity. If you are responsible enough to hold down a job and pay taxes, then you are responsible enough to vote.
---Jed on 11/28/13

I made an error to bro.Jed bro.Jerry she was NOT able to vote, really quite
Not the issue. My apologies.
---Lidia4796 on 11/28/13

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I can't believe what I am reading. Literacy tests were one of many reasons the Voting Rights Act was originally passed. They put all inner city children at a disadvantage, simply because they had the misfortune of being born into poverty and attending bad schools, which are poorly funded. Then they turn 18, and are tested to see if they can vote. Utterly ridiculous.

As for raising the voting age, it used to be 21. But then, it was decided that since 18 and 19 year olds were old enough to go off and fight, and die, in wars decided by politicians in Washington, they should be able to vote on who makes that decision.
---Grandma on 11/28/13

Peter, are you the same peter that is a missionary to South America? The peter I'm referring to is in the medical field.
---shira4368 on 11/28/13

Jerry, the literacy test was a good idea - a better one would be some form of common sense test, but that is harder to test.

We could at least raise the voting age to 21, like the drinking age - people can do as much damage voting for an idiot in government as drinking!
---Peter on 11/27/13

yes,bro.Jed and bro.Jerry, she was a nice young girl, no, I do think she was able to vote - she was very loyal ,quiet & like I say she long' be able go to school.. thanks! Hope you all have a good time, thanksgiving!
Love of Jesus,
Lidia 4796
---Lidia4796 on 11/27/13

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Lidia, it sounds like your relative had far worse problems than not being able to vote. And it sounds like the reason she couldn't get an I.D. was because her captors prevented her from doing so. No voting laws would change that. Do you honestly think her captors would have allowed her to vote if they wouldn't allow her out of the basement? Or that she was even intellectually capable of voting?

Jerry, I agree with you. Welfare recipients who are paying no taxes should not be voting on what to do with taxpayer's money.
---Jed on 11/27/13

Jed: Although it's way off topic, I'd like to weigh in to the voter ID thing.

Originally, only American property owners (who paid taxes) were allowed to vote. When I was young, people had to pass a literacy test (in Florida) in order to vote. I think we should go back to those days.

When intelligent people (with skin in the game) vote, we get responsible government. When stupid people vote, we get Democrats.

---jerry6593 on 11/27/13

Sis. Mary, you and other brought back memories of those I have lost. I miss my sister, mom, dad, and former wife, but I miss my mom the most. I always think of her and now in this holidays it gets worse for so many. Another year going by without them. I pray for you, Lidia, Darline and other sisters and brothers who are going through life missing someone very close. You and everyone have a wonderful Thanksgiving Day and keep yourselves safe. That goes for all of the Moderators who have been there for us.
Know that we are thinking of all of you, peace and love to all.
---Mark_V. on 11/27/13

The gentleman who went there a chores, foryears. she made what!? 65cents maybe a day. Till age 73!!!

she in a basement, work, no phone calls, no friends, just work, no tv

It was cruel.. no days off!

She got, used to them or afraid she would not leave. It was not fair..

he broke dwn do something, so she can be at least a human being " on paper" she would not know bout voting. They did not allow her to watch tv, no contact.
He got scared by my mother.
---Lidia4796 on 11/26/13

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In short , she was never beat or nothing like that she was too dependent & trusting woman
, they made her feel like .too fearfull NOT knowing how to read or write
the anchor,we can not depend on anyone else,"

fill her head with yes, one day you will be able to leave..
That never came..

They were just want her to staythere
---Lidia4796 on 11/27/13

Lydia, I'm sorry your relative had problems. Who wouldn't allow her to go to school? Who kept her as prisoner?
---shira4368 on 11/26/13

Bro.Jed, all respect to you.No, she could not vote, the problem I did not get why they had her like a prisoner
we did not have any idea she was kept like that,she wanted to go to school, maybe get married. No, illegal alien can vote,only permanent legal resident or persons who have become a citizen.
---Lidia4796 on 11/26/13

Lidia, from what you are saying (she had a visitor's visa permit), this relative was not even a U.S. citizen and should not be able to vote. Although if you have a visa, you do have an I.D. From your claims, I question if she was even here legally at all! Your relative is exactly the type of person the republican voter laws are meant to prevent from voting. Which is a good thing.

Any legal U.S. citizen can get an ID to vote. It may not be easy but it is possible. And if they can't put forth the effort to do so, then quite frankly they don't care enough to deserve to vote. Should the government give you a personal taxi to get to the polling station if you don't have a car too?
---Jed on 11/26/13

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yes! Respect to you bro.Peter, she was pick up from o'er there, promises
she had No # all she had was visitor visa, permit - anyway she pay no tax, never let out the house. It like she did not exist on paper.She had no lite bills, no rent receipts,etc.. my mother told me, " you could help her,you are very educated." She had to get a letter from her "employer" I would call not so nice.. he had to get photos of her, tell the truth how long she live & work for them.they made like she was a refugee.. long story he got out like a fat rat! they would not even pay for her burial,funeral... we talk bk in 1970' my family paid for her funeral.
---Lidia4796 on 11/26/13

Jed on 11/25/13: Your question to Lydia about her relative paying taxes can have two answers.

Her relative may have a SSN but no identity, in which case she can file tax returns but not vote.

Or she may not have a SSN, but be earning below tax minimum ($6500, I think it was for singles) and so not have to pay tax. In this case, she was in some way violating the law but was not stealing from the IRS.

I think the first one, a SSN but no ID, is more likely. If you only have a SSN card but nothing with your photo on it, you are in big trouble!
---Peter on 11/25/13

Yes, she came to work for them and promise mk her legal. She left young from Jamaica. her papers, home and he was pay her by personal checks. Honest to God, she was never married could not read, they never let us see her until like I say she,too old to do nothing. She was to eventually even get night school,it never happen.when I met her she was already in her mid 50' she took care of them.till death.
---Lidia4796 on 11/25/13

Lydia, how was your relative paying taxes on her wages she earned as a maid without any identification? Was she working illegally?
---Jed on 11/25/13

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Hi,Shira4368 ' people right now,who work"on the place" from Jamaica,etc, maids,aupairs fancy for "in house baby sitter" live in fear if try to leave "sponsors" promise they know they can't read or write.

Often family do not even know they here.
I have seen people here like that in the latino communty,years ago!
---lidia4368 on 11/25/13

grandma and Lydia I stand corrected. I just didn't realize some can't get an id. I would never have thought it was that hard. Maybe some don't have a bible like my mom had
---shira4368 on 11/25/13

Grandma,bless you, I got to thinking & yes, I had a relative she never could get an i.d. and I tried to help her. She could not read or write. A maid she work hard, she had to get a store keeper to cash her checks!I tried to help her, it so confusing to me.Then, wait,many yrs.They sent a letter she could get i.d. she never had a criminal record,etc..
Time we got letter she could get I.D. and legal status,sadly, she was dead. She was 73.
---Lidia4796 on 11/25/13

Jed: As I said before, you don't live in reality, so I'm done interacting with you. I am taking the advice of a wiser person who guided me away from trying to convince you of anything.
---Grandma on 11/24/13

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Wow, Grandma, what a great argument. Profound! It was already obvious you don't know what you are talking about.
---Jed on 11/23/13

That's right, Jed. You know everything. You're always right, and I don't know what I'm talking about.
---Grandma on 11/23/13

You cant even open a bank account or a post office box without the identification that would be necessary to vote. Most tasks in life require far more identification than the proposed voting laws require. If you have been living here legally, then you already have the identification necessary to vote. Voter identification is absolutely to stop voter fraud, multiple voting, and illegal aliens from voting. Which is exactly why democrats are against voter verification of citizenship.
---Jed on 11/23/13

You know what, Jed? I'm tired of this discussion. According to you, everyone's lying, including the Texas legislator who was unable to vote a few weeks ago. Even though there are U.S. citizens, like many senior citizens who were housewives and never drove, or worked outside the home, and cannot obtain a legal birth certificate. I'm lying, my news sources, of which there are many, are lying, the Democrats are lying, and the citizens who can't get legal ID are lying. So, close your eyes, stick your head in the ground, and enjoy your life. I'm done discussing reality with you, because you don't live there.
---Grandma on 11/23/13

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Grandma, even if you don't have a driver's license, if you have the documents necessary to obtain legal employment or college enrollment or even receive welfare then you have the documents necessary to get an ID card and vote. So there is no excuse for anyone who has ever worked legally, gone to school, or received welfare not to be able to vote, because you had to have had the necessary identifying documents to do any of those things.
---Jed on 11/23/13

Jed: Also, a lot of women, especially older women, never work outside the house, nor owned drivers licences.
---Grandma on 11/23/13

Jed: My children all worked during high school, at a restaurant chain, before they got their drivers licenses

Also, a lot of college students don't work, but they're of voting age.
---Grandma on 11/22/13

Just one question about that. How does a person acheive legal employmemt and pay taxes with no identification?
---Jed on 11/22/13

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grandma, please let me use this blog to tell you that I do believe what you said. when my mom was born in 1906, no birth certificate was given to her mom. When time came to draw her SS, she had to produce documents but she had none except her moms bible where the births were listes. She also had to produce any bills she may have had over the years. She never had a drivers license. she persued until she got enough to prove who she was. mom and dad were very poor so no excuse again for anyone not to get an idea.
---shira4368 on 11/22/13

No I do not pray to or ask anything of anything or anyone dead. I know my God is alive.
---Matthew on 11/20/13

grandma, I miss my family also. while I don't talk to them, sometimes I feel like they are looking down at us and a sense of protection from them. now I doubt if that is true but it makes me feel good to think it. I miss dave, Sheryl, mom and dad.
---shira4368 on 11/18/13

When I miss my family members in heaven, I talk out loud to the Lord, and tell Him why I'm missing them at that particular time. For example, my baby brother died at the age of 40, before my daughter, who was close to him, had any of my grandchildren. He was also very close to my older son, who got married a year after he went to heaven. I tell the Lord just how much I wish he could be there to play with the kids. Same for my father, who died when my oldest was a baby, before her brothers were born. Then, their other grandfather died a year later. My kids grew up not knowing their grandpas, and their kids won't know their great uncles on their Mom's side of the family. I tell the Lord just how much I miss them.
---Grandma on 11/18/13

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To Mary, there have been 2x I really miss my son.I get so,emotional,when I think about him,vs.the daughter who alway's been so,hard to get along with/ joined a cult. I have cried tears,found myself,open up,talk.. but,then I quit. It just a moment. However,yes,I do know God & our Lord Jesus can hear me,will answer.. just to let you know my heart grieves,too. You are a tender heart Mary, God knows how you feel.. love of Jesus! Lidia4796
---Lidia4796 on 11/18/13

NO! Dead people can't hear you because they're DEAD. Dead does not mean ALIVE, it means DEAD!

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished, neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

The bible forbids communication with the dead because it is with demons posing as dead people.

---jerry6593 on 11/18/13

Hi, I don't pray to my dead brother but sometimes I talk to him as if he were still here, wonder if he can ever hear me in Heaven? I hope nobody thinks I'm sinful, I just miss my brother, it's Jesus I pray to though.
---Mary on 11/17/13

Grandma, to add to what you said, is to also say, that Jesus is not dead like all the others, He is alive, for He is the resurrection and the life. We can talk to God through Christ. He is our Mediator.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/13

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Why would a person talk to the dead, like Mary, or the other dead apostles or any other dead person? Isn't it a waste of time, which could be used talking directly to God in Jesus name? Taking the time to talk to the dead dishonors Jesus, who is the ONLY intercessor we have, or need, EVER.
---Grandma on 11/14/13

We have God/Jesus all the time to ask for favours. Dead folks are already cut-off from interacting with earthlings.
---Adetunji on 11/14/13

Ecclesiastes 9:5
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten."

Any Christian reading the above verse from the bible must surely see that there is no point in talking to the dead. Why some waste their time trying to justify doing so mystifies me.

Obviously, there are some here who do not accept that the bible is God's Word to man and think that we can treat it with contempt.
---Rita_H on 11/10/13

Can a living person talk to dead people in the spiritual realm without praying to them?
Yes! I believe we can all talk to dead people in the spiritual realm without praying to them!

I have found myself talking to trees, rocks, squirrels and pigeons. But never once did I expect them to answer me. This is where the problems come-in when you think (they're answering you!)
(Or for that matter even could answer you! Luk_16:26!)

Is there a difference between praying to dead saints vs. asking them for favors?
Why would anyone pray to dead saints, instead of praying to God?
Pray for them!

So NO! There is no difference between (praying to dead saints) vs. (asking them for favors.)
There both stupid!
---TheSeg on 11/9/13

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1 Cliff, I believe Willi is speaking about saints who are alive. They are the ones in some need or another. The dead ones, have no needs. That is what I took from his answer.
---Mark_V. on 11/8/13

Willie c, By "Praying for all the saints" I would hope you're not including dead saints !
---1st_cliff on 11/6/13

Paul commands that we be "praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints---" (Ephesians 6:18)

So, we are told to pray for "all the saints". And it says to pray "in the Spirit" > which I would understand means we pray only how the Holy Spirit Himself has us praying. So, the Holy Spirit's praying in us will be plenty to do each other good.

So, I consider, any obedient saint is already praying for us and wants us to follow his or her example of obeying how the Holy Spirit has him or her praying.
---willie_c: on 11/6/13

The authority of scripture over our entire lives does not mean the Bible tells us everything. The commandment do not steal. Does not tell us all forms of stealing. In the OT you will find additional rules about not stealing.

Now the Bible does not mention not using computers to steal. But the principal is there. So anything that goes against the principals that are written by GOD should not be circumvented and transgressed by people to get what they want.

The Bible is against communicating with the dead. Therefore we should not do it.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/6/13

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"How many can come up with verses justifying churches using air conditioners, computers, or projectors?"

Wow, now I know for sure that someone REALLY has 'lost the plot'.

Cluny - you seriously need to take a holiday.
---Rita_H on 11/6/13

Cluny, air conditioners soft seats and any other thing to make us comfortable is just another gift from God. Does your church have ain't?
---shira4368 on 11/6/13

So what, Jed?

How many can come up with verses justifying churches using air conditioners, computers, or projectors?

Glory to Jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 11/5/13

But there are also no verses that say not to do use air conditioners, computers, and projectors. That's the difference.
---Jed on 11/6/13

So what, Jed?

How many can come up with verses justifying churches using air conditioners, computers, or projectors?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/5/13

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So to date, we have had several bloggers respond with verses that show we should NOT pray to or attempt to communicate with the dead, and ZERO verses that support communicating with the dead.
---Jed on 11/5/13

There will be two resurrections. One, when Jesus returns when the dead in Christ shall rise and the living shall be caught up with them. This is the first resurrection which happens as the last trumpet blows.

The second resurrection comes one thousand years later when all the other dead shall rise and be judged from the Book of Life according to their works on earth before they died.

Blessed are those that rise in the first resurrection.
---Steveng on 11/5/13

Ecclesiastes 9:5 tells us that the dead know nothing. We are NOT to try to contact dead people. Those who try (e.g. spiritualists) are contacting evil spirits not dead human beings.

It matters not whether a person wishes to 'talk to' or 'pray to' a dead person, we would still be sinning to attempt this because we are told NOT TO DO SO.
---Rita_H on 11/5/13

Mar 12:25-27

For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels which are in heaven.
And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Notice the context of the quote. It is referring to the Resurrection of the dead. Not that the dead are alive now. So you are misusing the quote.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/4/13

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Every person that has died (save the few that were brought back to life by Jesus and other christians) are deader than a doorknob (or asleep according to the bible). If they are dead how could they hear you? If they are dead how could they do whatever you ask? The bible even says people are dead until the resurrection:

Martha said to Jesus, I know that my brother shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
---Steveng on 11/4/13

The saints of God are not dead!

Mark12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Now if you are speaking of praying to those who have passed on this is necromancy.

Deu18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deu18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deu18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
---trey on 11/4/13

The Word of God rebukes us and says not to talk to the dead. Isaiah 8:19 When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter,should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? There is also the Bible verses which tell us to pray to Jesus to reach God and Jesus passes our prayers on to God. God made no such arrangement for just any dead relative or even saint to receive our prayers and pass them on to God. The only why to God is through Jesus. Live by the Word of God and live for the Lord.
---Darlene_1 on 11/4/13

Abraham, Issac and Jacob are dead. Conclusion drawn. Thanks!
---Goofy_Mouse on 11/4/13

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\\Is there a difference between praying to dead saints vs. asking them for favors?\\

Pre-Reformation churches have always seen the difference, though johnny-come-lately sects who lack the mind of Christ don't.

Jesus said that God told Moses, "I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Therefore, He is not the god of the dead, but the God of the Living."

Since all are alive in God's sight, draw your own conclusions.

Glory to Jesus Chirst!
---Cluny on 11/4/13

Foremost, we christians should know what the Bible says if we are believing christians. The dead dont know anything. They are just that. Dead and cannot communicate. We should all know that it is satan pretending to be the dead. Believe it or not. If not, then your not of Christ end of the matter. Thus says the Word.
---janz on 11/4/13

Jed: Your questions reminded me of the 1999 Bruce Willis movie, The Sixth Sense, wherein a tormented little boy said, "I see dead people." My revelatory take away from the movie was we all see people who are "dead in sin" daily, don't we? Yet, it's very difficulty to rationally & objectively converse with spiritually dead people because the dead & spirit quickened (born again) aren't on the same mental (spiritual) frequency (wave length).

NO, a living human can't talk to a "deceased" human unless God makes it an exceptional possibility (1 Samuel 28:7-19).

Whether it's praying of asking for favors, both are "appeals" towards fulfilling one's desires.
---Leon on 11/4/13

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