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Finish It Here Feb 2014

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 ---joseph on 2/20/14
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'Christ's human body was glorified and changed at His Resurrection'- Cluny.

Of course it was! It changed from a human body to a spiritual body (1 Cor.15:44,50 & 1 Peter 3:18)

How can you say Jesus' body "changed" when you insist he was 'in the flesh' both before and after his resurrection!?

You are a fleshly thinker and unable to discern spiritual matters.
---David8318 on 2/28/14

Who is Father? Elohyim[echhad] different Worlds/realms/ions/ages
"right hand" idiom for strength-Elohyims Very Word
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil,
Yes Elohyim is Spirit and The adversary would not have you believe the Very Word of Elohyim
The Word, Emmanu el: God with us
The Word,Ysha: God Savior
The Spirit did not died the flesh did, His flesh went no where. The very Word of Elohyim went and [...]preached unto the spirits in prison,"1Pet3:19

In all realms Heavens/earth
The ageeement stands.
---char on 2/28/14

'spiritually things are spiritually discerned'- Cluny.

But you don't believe in the spiritual resurrection of Jesus!! Thats the point! You're a fleshly thinking person believing Jesus was resurrected in the flesh!

A fleshly person cannot comprehaend spiritual things. Christ was 'put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit'- 1 Peter 3:18.

We're still waiting for you to tell us the difference between having 'flesh and bones and having human form'? Can't you find it in your 'Catholic Without a Pope' handbook?

I remember the last time you lost the argument you left saying 'the dogs bark, the caravan moves on'. are the dogs barking now!?
---David8318 on 2/28/14

\\While you're at it, can you please also explain how God sustains his body of flesh? Apparently, according to you, not only is Jesus flesh, but he is also God! Does God have food in heaven, or does he pop to Walmart?\\

Christ's human body was glorified and changed at His Resurrection.

But since spiritually things are spiritually discerned, I don't expect you to understand this.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/28/14

Rev 21:26-27 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27 And there shall in no wise ENTER INTO IT any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

I love this verse.

Satan ENTERED INTO in the Garden, already in his fallen state lying and tempting. Now sin is not sin until acted upon, therefore sin did enter the world through Adam, because that lie and temptation was acted upon by Adam and Eve.

Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness yet Jesus did not act upon that therefore no sin occured.

But YEA in the New Heaven and earth no such temptation will ever enter in.
---kathr4453 on 2/28/14

Luke- in your attempt to explain 1 Peter 3:18, first you say Jesus 'was made alive by the Holy Spirit of God', now you say 'He was raised by the Father in the flesh'. You appear to change the words at 1 Peter 3:18 at will to suit whatever you want it to say. Its called twisting the scriptures.

Christ was 'raised in the spirit'- 1Pe.3:18. No where does it say Jesus was 'raised in the flesh' as you claim! This is simply not true.

You also claim, 'Jesus is God... He is risen, and is seating at the right hand of the Father'. Again this is twisting what the Bible actually states.

Acts 7:56 says, 'I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God'- (NIV).

If you believe Jesus is God, who is the Father?
---David8318 on 2/28/14

'There's a difference between having flesh and bones and having human form'- Cluny.

Oh please tell us the difference Cluny! Perhaps you could also explain how flesh and bones can apparently walk through walls of a locked room.

While you're at it, can you please also explain how God sustains his body of flesh? Apparently, according to you, not only is Jesus flesh, but he is also God! Does God have food in heaven, or does he pop to Walmart?

Jesus stated a simple truth, 'God is a Spirit'- John 4:24.
---David8318 on 2/28/14

The fall of Satan ( an angel ) had to be before the fall of man. Sin had already entered heaven. But sin entered the world when Adam sinned. The world as in all of mankind. The serpent, a manifestation of Satan, appears for the first time before the fall of man. The rebellion of Satan, therefore, had occurred sometime after Gen. 1:31, when everything is creation was good, but before Gen. 3:1: Ezek. 28:11-15. Satan possessed the body of a snake in its pre-fall form ( Gen. 3:14 for post-fall form). The Bible no where suggest that sin entered the world before Adam. Warwick is following biblical hermeneutics.
---Luke on 2/28/14

Warwick, What I won't leave there is your willful ignorance of scripture that IN FACT the original earth was PERFECT with no darkness upon for any reason. Darkness is the absence of God, and also used at a term of judgment.

So rather that blatently condemn you I will just say you remain willfully IGNORANT of scriptures not only I have brought o you, but other Godly people here on line have brought to you as well.

Your attitude is as closed off at a Calvinist who refuses to look a the WHOLE of Scripture. AND it appears nothing can be don with that kind of Ignorance.

Seems as if YOU are the sensitive one who can't deal with constructive criticism.
---kathr4453 on 2/28/14

When the NEW Heaven and Earth come to be, there will be no darkness or mud ball without form or void with darkness upon it. It will not take 6 days to create. There will be no 24 hour days then anyway. and no sun or moon will be part of it. No sun needed for all the fruit trees, ... IT WILL BE PERFECT and INSTANT, with no signs of any decomposed bones of a previous world.

If God is going to do it then, He did and could have done it in the past.

This part Warwick will never grasp or understand. and without THAT understanding, his understanding is only limited to unregenerate men he follows and not God at all.
So how do you like those words of condemnation Warwick?
---kathr4453 on 2/28/14

Kath, there is nothing in the totality of Scripture to support any gap in Genesis ch.1. That you have been unable to provide such Scripture is proof you know of none.

The NT references to the gospel all acknowledge death entered the earth after Adam's sin. Not one verse supports your man-made view.

I will leave it there as you have ably demonstrated that your view is solely based upon idle speculation and the nonBiblical views of fallible sinful man who was not there at the beginning.

Jesus says man was made at the beginning of creation but you refuse to believe Him. You also refuse to answer my question: Where do you place the fossil record? If an honest answer to this question did not condemn you, you would answer.
---Warwick on 2/28/14

Warwick,. At the time of the flood, and I believe it covered the whole earth, everything died.( except for...) When the waters went down, I don't recall Noah saying...." Gee wiz, what is that smell?" Meaning dead corpses, of all sorts. They could not have possibly decomposed overnight, or a month or year without seeing a graveyard of bones covering the earth. BUT what if God buried all these under the earth where that earth was in fact the same earth of the original creation possibly a billion years old. Wouldn't there be contamination of those remains belonged with that era, or any contact with the age of that era contaminate any remains? No one knows where God desposed of all the death or how deep He buried them!
---kathr4453 on 2/28/14

Warwick, the idea that plant and animal life may have existed on the original earth I cannot find any scripture to back that. The fact of an original earth, with lucifer and the creation of angels I can back with scripture. When the earth flooded, unbelievable changes occurred on this planet, the pressure of water raising the temp of the earth, etc, I don't believe any scientist can accurately measure.

What I think is found are those between Adam and Noah that they are measuring with instruments they can only calibrate after Noah, trying to apply before Noah. They are still learning. And if they don't even believe in a universal flood re: Noah, their calculations are wrong.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14

God' s word is definitive. Agreeing with cluny on this.That is the point of the death and resurrection - God exist Spirit - His very word became flesh - destroying death - as he said.
---char on 2/27/14

\\Cluny can't comprehend that spirit beings have the ability to appear in human form and have done this many times in Bible history- eg.Gen.19:1, 32:24-29\\

There's a difference between having flesh and bones and having human form.

This is something that David doesn't grasp.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/27/14

Warwick#2. The time between Adam and Noah is something we cannot even begin to wrap our minds around. No rain, people lived to almost 1000 years, an ocean of water above the earth, used for the water that flooded at the time of Noah that poured out of the sky, I don't believe can be accurately carbon dated.

I see they find new things everyday, admit they were wrong about others.

The problem is, anyone can say they are a scientist with this data or that, and not all agree with each other.

With me, even without all that, the bible says and tells us creation of a heaven and perfect earth took place before the 6 days. Nothing about preexistent man.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14

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After Jesus died in the flesh, He was raised by the Father in the flesh, a glorified body. Jesus is God in His divine nature. He has always being God in His divine nature, and always will be God. He came in the flesh to die in the flesh for our sins. He is risen, and is seating at the right hand of the Father, while His divine spirit is in every believers life. If you do not have Christ you are not one of His.
---Luke on 2/27/14

Why did Jesus ask Thomas to touch the wounds in His side?
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14

Cluny asks, 'Please answer this'.

I have already answered this point on 2/26/14. Cluny can't comprehend that spirit beings have the ability to appear in human form and have done this many times in Bible history- eg.Gen.19:1, 32:24-29

So Cluny believes Jesus was raised in the flesh. Cluny also believes Jesus is God. Is Cluny trying to tell us God is flesh and blood? Does that not demean Almighty God? Is that not blasphemous? (Jo.4:24)

Jesus raised as a spirit being by Jehovah had the ability to appear in human form- hence his ability to enter a locked room unnoticed- Jo.20:19. And as a spirit he eventually ascended back to heaven to appear before Jehovah God- Heb.9:24.
---David8318 on 2/27/14

Re: Christians - depression blogg, you see this' what I love about CNT.
,God in His own way uses who Hewill, He is Sovereign.

crying but,not cause sick nor depression, the Lord wants me to enter into a deeper love,fullness,understanding.dear Lord please help me be more in tune with brother's & sisters ( posts) we know God is a spirit & many times, God use another person to bring people like today,I felt Lord very much like Jn15:5

JesusChrist, Lord forgive me for my haste! Keep CNT OnLine. Always something good on here.Thankyou,again for your mercy on me. Is.64:5,6.
---Lidia4796 on 2/27/14

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Kath, the point I have maintained from 'day 1' is that the various Gap Theories place the death of humans before Adam while Scripture says such death is a consequence of his sin. The whole universe "groans in bondage to sin and decay" Romans 8:22, because of Adams sin but it is only man whom Jesus came to save.

Whose sin resulted in the universal flood of Noah? Mans, but nonetheless countless billions of non-human creatures died. The result of sin is universal but the Good News is only for man.

Please tell us: where do you place the fossil Record?
---Warwick on 2/27/14

\\At his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was brought forth with a spirit body. In the Greek text (1 Pe.3:18\\

Why does Jesus say, "A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have", David?

Please answer this.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/27/14

Who is right? Eloyhim
Exist - One.
Within worlds/ages/realms/dimension:His Name is ([echhad] One.)
Zech14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.[echhad]

Elohyim Exist Spirit[ruahh]:flows Within worlds/ages/realms/dimensions
Immanuel: God with Us
Jesus [Ysha] - He Exist the deliver who delivers and delivered
[Aleph - Lamed = El']
El - H:408,409,410,412,413
Death and Resurrection: Flesh of the sacrifice(lamb) and blood of the lamb no longer necessary.
(karat beriyt)"cut the fatted meat".
The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak

His Word (bread of life) restores by strengthing when believed - followed.
---char on 2/27/14

'made alive by the Holy Spirit...'- Luke.

But the Bible does not say that. Peter does not use 'holy spirit' at 3:18 because he is not discussing the holy spirit. Peter is contrasting 'flesh' with 'spirit'.

At his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was brought forth with a spirit body. In the Greek text (1 Pe.3:18) the words 'flesh' and 'spirit' are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case. So, if a translator uses the rendering 'by the spirit' he should also consistently say 'by the flesh,' or if he uses 'in the flesh' he should also say 'in the spirit'.

Jesus was raised 'in the spirit' (RevisedStandard, Douay, JerusalemBible, NewEnglish). Your rendering suggests Jesus was put to death 'by the flesh'.
---David8318 on 2/27/14

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Kath, I know of nowhere in Scripture where insects or vegetation are described as being alive in the way that Man and creatures ie dogs, cats etc are. Vegetation was given to man and other nepesh creatures from day 1 so their 'death' is different.

---Warwick on 2/27/14

Where do you get the idea dogs and cats are also grouped with ADAM=man. They have no soul. Yet even plants are alive. Was vegetation really on the 1st day? can you show that through scripture? So actually you made my point perfectly, that whatever these creatures were whether cat or dog or insect or plant has nothing to do with being IN ADAM ALL DIE.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14

Kath, I know of nowhere in Scripture where insects or vegetation are described as being alive in the way that Man and creatures ie dogs, cats etc are. Vegetation was given to man and other nepesh creatures from day 1 so their 'death' is different. WARWICK////

AND THIS IS WHERE WE PART WAYS.YOUR understanding of IN ADAM all die include animals, and that animals are IN ADAM and will one day be made alive IN CHRIST. Did God breath LIFE into the nostrils of dogs and cats? Really Warwick, think!

And that animals including plants were made before Adam can never place them "IN ADAM" to begin with. so your understanding of "IN ADAM" placing animals with man is your theory not founded in scripture.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14

The ONLY one IN ADAM from the beginning was Eve, made from Adam's rib. Eve was not a separate creation like Adam. No animals were created or made out of any part of Adam. Then Eve gave birth to man children. Eve means the mother of us all, in no way suggests Eve was the mother of any plants or animals.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14

So much here. (all posts)
Concerning 3rd post of yours, love it,
"The letter B [Heb 'Bet'] is prefix defined 'In'. The pictograph is a tent floor"
and agree (not saying I dont agree with the rest, just that this specifically agrees with what I thought/came across after posting.

There are so many layers.
Also, as "simple" as the word "in" is, significance of even the littlest or most common word(s), might be overlooked.
In the beginning for instance, might only be seen as beginning of time, however, considering He is the beginning and the end, alpha and omega, first and last......
---chria9396 on 2/27/14

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Shira... because Jesus had to prove to "doubting" Thomas that he had been resurrected. If you read the account Thomas was having trouble believing Jesus had been resurrected and wanted to see those wounds.

Does your "theory" mean that blood was still pumping out of the wounds all over his clothes and all over Thomas?

In addition, does your "theory" mean that the Almighty God- as you believe Jesus to be- is a flesh and blood individual? How does God get his food and water? Does God have to pop down to earth to shop?
---David8318 on 2/27/14

1 Peter 3:18 states,
" For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit"
He was not raised in the spirit, He was made alive by the Holy Spirit of God. Jesus resurrected in a new glorified body, a body that could go through walls yet be touch by man.
---Luke on 2/27/14

Kath, I know of nowhere in Scripture where insects or vegetation are described as being alive in the way that Man and creatures ie dogs, cats etc are. Vegetation was given to man and other nepesh creatures from day 1 so their 'death' is different.

Creatures described as having the life principle (Hebrew nephesh) are those which breathe air through nostrils and have blood flowing through their veins. Gods word says Adam became a living soul/being (nephesh chayyh).

Ideas about what did, or could have happened in the Garden are at best speculation.

The point is that the Gap Theory undermines the truth of the gospel placing death of man before Adam.
---Warwick on 2/27/14

Yours wasn't constructive criticism, but blattent condemnation. So the condescending opening remark was not necessary but again haughty and arrogant on your part. A Markv trait.

If Adam and Eve were created to live forever physically and spiritually, there would not have been a "tree of life" to give them that option to live forever physically or spiritually.

If during rebellion and chaos an astroid hit the earth, extintintion then would have been the result of this chaos. No SIN passed down through some original human without a soul ha! Never IN Adam to begin with Ever existed, however Satan's sin and rebellion was not PASSED down or inherited by other angels. Yet even sin and rebellion existed BEFORE Adam.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14

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Yes Warwick, those questions are relevant and need to be answered, whether here or you alone with The Lord, you need to find truth through Him. Ask where Lucifer got all those gems and medals in the Eden of God, where rocks and fire existed on a substance he walked up and down on to and fro from. When did he say I will descend above the clouds and stars resulting in his fall? So clouds and stars once existed before the 6 days. Only The Lord can tell you these truths.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14

David if your "theory" was correct, why did Jesus have actual nail pierced hands?
---shira4368 on 2/27/14

And finally Warwick, all these verses in scripture support a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 2. They were there before any scientists, geologists or archaeologists who have also confirmed the very scriptures you reject, nor can you neatly explain away.

The heavens that were of OLD is not talking about any heavens between Adam and Noah. And we also know when the flood happened in Noah's time, only the earth, not the heavens were cleansed. NO scripture supports any heavens being made NEW during the time of Noah's flood.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/14

Kath, you appear overly sensitive to criticism, while your comments expose a condescending haughty attitude. As to questions I do not have time to answer them all, endeavouring to answer those I believe are relevant.

Death: by sinning Adam died spiritually and began to die physically. This concurs with Genesis 3:22,23 which says Adam was banished from the Garden to stop him eating from the tree of life, and living forever. This tells us Adam was not meant to die (physically) but would now, as man has done since, because of Adam's sin. Enoch is an exception among the billions who have died physically. The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) this is why Jesus died physically!
---Warwick on 2/26/14

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'Who's right?'- asks Cluny.

Yes, who is right? Peter says Christ was raised 'in the spirit'- 1 Pe.3:18 (ASV). Paul says 'flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom'- 1 Cor.15:50.

Yes, Jesus said 'feel my flesh and bones'- Luke 24:39. But Jesus said that to his disciples who believed they had seen not Jesus but had 'seen a spirit'- 24:37. They obviously needed reassurance as to who was in their presence, and now as a resurrected glorified spirit being Jesus was able to appear as a human to provide that assurance. Spirit beings (angels) have the ability to appear as human- Gen.19:1, 32:24-29.

As a spirit being (post resurrection), Jesus was able to appear as a human to convince his disciples of his resurrection- Lu.24:36-40.
---David8318 on 2/26/14

Today we are closely related to monkey,'s but not an exact match either.

Now I wonder about death in the garden before sin entered in. If my dog pees on the grass, the grass dies. Death.

Were bugs and creepy things food ? Did birds eat worms? DEATH. So death did occur before sin.

If everything came out of the earth, even the original earth, as was Adams physical substance, from the same earth, that very well may be the only DNA match. Eve was created out of Adam's rib, paring the two to procreate humans. No such statement was ever made about plants and animals. You can't DNA a soul, or conscience so the idea they were humans without a soul could never be made from a DNA test. Whoever made that statement is nuts.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/14

Warwick , when I say man in their ignorance have mislabeled different species, saying closesly related but not the same, the one thing that comes to mind is the word RELIGION. Man in their ignorance states Christianity is one of many religions.....closely related but not the same. However the absolute truth is, Christianity is not a Religion at all.

And only one Born Again knows that to be fact. No bible verse states this, yet it is an absolute fact. The bible uses religion and also Christian, but I cannot find any verse using the word Christianity or Christendom. Those are man made words me wrongly have applied to to Jesus Christ. Christianity is a person. And the person of Jesus Christ is not a Christianity.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/14

Yes chria,
//Made in this verse
H6213 - asah-chria9396 on 2/23/14//
*bringing forth, gathering, separating

*Hayah: became H1961

the earth was[a] a shapeless, chaotic mass,* with the Spirit of God brooding over the dark vapors.*
a.the earth was, or "the earth became." a shapeless, chaotic mass, or "shapeless and void." over the dark vapors, or "over the cloud of darkness," or "over the darkness and waters," or "over the dark gaseous mass." There is not one correct way to translate these words.
The earth was barren,
with no form of life,
it was under a roaring ocean
covered with darkness.
But the Spirit of God
was moving over the water
---char on 2/26/14

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Warwick, your own terminology of "physically human but soulless" is a term you made up having no foundation of truth whatsoever. With these self invented terms like "limited atonement" has, you create a straw man...(no pun intended)...hahaha to base your rebuttal over. Please don't insult me again Warwick.

YOU didn't answer the question of the meaning of death, therefore without that meaning YOU in fact may not have a clear understanding of the gospel to begin with, to make such an outlandish statement the Gospel is trampled.

The ONLY thing God gave a soul to WAS HUMANS. That without a soul IS not human. The FIRST ADAM(human)is a life giving SOUL.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/14

The preaching of the CROSS is the Gospel. The death buried and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The belief of a young earth vs old will not save a man's soul from hell. Peter knew the Gospel and he believed the heavens were of old, and an earth that was then. The very prophets believed and prophesied of Satan's existence of being created BEFORE the 6 day beginning.

If you really understood the Gospel Warwick, you would be preaching the Gospel and that alone. I don't care if there were 5 other times the earth was renewed before ours, and we know it will be again. What matters is we being man have a soul God PURPOSED to redeem and bring into Glory Before the foundation of the first perfect world.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/14

In order to understand the meaning of death Warwick, you need to understand the meaning of what the second death is as well. How can something dead die again? How can we, who are already dead die again with Christ "I am crucified with Christ"= death. Did Enoch see death? Yet he inherited Adams sin bringing death. These truths I guarantee you don't understand. And without their understanding you don't know the very Gospel you insist is being destroyed. How many of these NEO young earth creationists are truly BORN again of the spirit of the life of Christ, having experienced identification "IN death" and resurrection life with Christ? Or can even explain THAT death, much less death itself?
---kathr4453 on 2/26/14

Kath, the various Gap Theories contradict the gospel as presented in the NT. If you promote these theories you also wittingly or unwittingly undermine Scripture.

In regards to the gospel it is only human death which is central. You along with other Gappists propose the human remains found in the fossil record were physically human but soulless, and not the same family as we. However this idea has been blown out of the water by testable, repeatable observable Denisovan DNA testing, reported c6mths ago, which shows all the Homo fossils and modern man are closely related. Easy to research on the web. I today spoke with a research scientist to confirm the facts.
---Warwick on 2/26/14

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\\ Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom. Jesus was raised 'in the spirit'- 1 Pe.3:18 (ASV).
---David8318 on 2/25/14\\

Jesus said:

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Who's right?
---Cluny on 2/25/14

Samuelbb7, you ask: 'Failure to knock on doors makes a person lost? Where is that in Scripture?'

I didn't say it was. The idea of propagating the Christian message, as commanded by Jesus to 'preach' may involve a Christian going 'house to house' as many missionaries do- Ac.5:42 (NIV).

You ask me to look up 1 Corinthians 15 on the matter of Jesus' resurrection. How is being a mighty spirt being 'demeaning'?

1 Cor.15:4 and 50, 'he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures... flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God' (NIV).

No where in 1 Cor.15 does it teach Jesus was raised in the flesh. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom. Jesus was raised 'in the spirit'- 1 Pe.3:18 (ASV).
---David8318 on 2/25/14

//chria9396 on 2/23/14//

B r a sh'h

B [Heb. 'Bet'] is prefix defined family,house, In
Pictograph is a tent floor.

R [Heb. 'resh'] root word [rosh] defined chief, top, beginning.
The pictograph is a mans Head.

A [Heb. 'aleph'] defined strength
Pictograph - An ox Head

Sh [Heb. 'shin'] defined chew, two edge sword, cut
Pictograph - Two front Teeth

H [Heb. 'Hhet'] defined outside, divide, half
Pictograph - Tent Wall

The Word Jn1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word - His strength(right hand) first-divides,renews,resurrects

---char on 2/25/14

Warwick, insults. When you said I destroyed the foundations of the Gospel, that was the biggest insult ever. I have never made any such comment to you through.

I already told you I do not believe in a pre-adamic existence, and not all GAP Theories agree. Yet you continually overlook that statement and still accuse me of believing in a pre-adamic existence when I've said over and over I DO NOT. and when I say pre-adamic I mean no other "Adams meaning MAN".

I did pull up something about 400,000 years ago.....but they are so but ugly along with all forms whatever they were called. We have unfortunately mislabeled them, as human. Whatever they were, Jesus was not made one of them to redeem them.
---kathr4453 on 2/25/14

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Warwick, I have not seen any records of humans that existed billions of years ago. May be my ignorance but the oldest man found to date was not dated as having existed billions of years ago. What ever form it was at that time, if it is dated before the "first" Adam is it not HUMAN. Otherwise Adam in Genesis would be considered the second Adam or another Adam. The FIRST MAN ADAM, as I see MAN meaning human was on the 6th day of Genesis 1. I believe ADAM is the first of any HUMANS. So if they found something, of which I am ignorant at this time, they will one day discover it is not HUMAN.

---kathr4453 on 2/25/14

//joseph on 2/21/14//
//---joseph on 2/24/14// I agree with you Brother.

Ps 104:30
Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

Adam: parent root [ad] blood. [Adamah] ground/dust, [dam] red Gen 2:7

Ecc 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Psalms 24:2, "For He has founded it (the earth) upon the seas, and established it upon the floods

93:3, "The floods have lifted up, o Lord, the floods have lifted up their voice, the floods lift up their waves."

98:8, "Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together."

---char on 2/24/14

Kath, you say (and I of course agree) that no man was created/made before Adam. However the Gap Theory which you promote places the fossil record before Adam appeared and it contains the fossils of countless humans. How do you reconcile this?

Also Jesus has said (Mark 10:6) that man was made at the beginning of the creation in which we live i.e. on day 6. Conversely the Gap Theory has man appearing long after the beginning. How do you reconcile this?

You continue on about my supposed insults but will not give examples of such. I can't help thinking this is but a debating tactic.
---Warwick on 2/25/14

Warwick, You accused me of not answering your question. But if you go back and read all from the very first blog, I did, while laying a foundation for the conclusion. I showed you firstly creation took place before the 6 days through scripture Job 38, The Eden of God Lucifer walked in, God's Holy Mountain Lucifer walked in. Ezekiel. There was a paradise before Genesis 1:2. But there was no ADAM. The "first man Adam" became a living soul. No living souls lived before Genesis 1. The SOUL that sinneth IT shall die. Angels have no souls, neither do plants and animals. Yet we know the soul never dies literally, if you believe in an eternal hell where the worm never dies. So,again, define death Warwick, as I originally asked you to.
---kathr4453 on 2/25/14

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So Warwick, if you believe, as does the SDA that the soul becomes extinct, distinguished altogether then your understanding of death is different than mine. Jesus came to save the "soul of man" from death, not total extinction.

Plants and animals become extinct, having no soul will never be resurrected. Plants and animals are not IN Adam, only humans are. So what ever form of existence other than angels that may have been on the original earth has nothing to do with the concept that IN ADAM all die, and in no way compromises the Gospel of the salvation that deals exclusively with the soul of man made after the image of God.
---kathr4453 on 2/25/14

"Creation" means having never existed prior.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/14

To reiterate this I mean, ADAM was created and made. There was no other ADAM prior to Genesis 1. Meaning there was no other "man" ever "created" . If that were so, Adam could not be created, but only made, or recreated. He was made, meaning made out of the dust of the earth which existed. This is why God said Adam was CREATED and MADE. Both are true.

I agree with Warwick that Replenish is incorrectly used in Genesis as referring to a second time around for humans. The FIRST Adam was created on the 6th day. There was not any "RE" concerning man.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/14

blessings brothers, sisters

Chria, continued'

Plain, simple meanings that hints/represents a indirect meaning that has an ([olam] [sod]hidden) meaning - buried deeper - drawn out by ([rash] searching)

Good example,what has 'come to pass'-


From beginning[b'reshyt]a subject from one post brought (forward/chiefly)into another post.
The subject from one (world/ion) is (shadowed/represented [tselem] stg6754) into another (world/ion)
This blog/post is not the beginning post but- has been 'Called' from one blog/post to([bara] fill) into another.

Ecc3:15That which hath been is now, and that which is to be hath already been, and God requireth that which is past.

---char on 2/24/14

Adam means more than a person's name. The last ADAM, who is CHRIST did not take the name ADAM. The LAST ADAM, Christ came to redeem the first Adam, meaning mankind. The first ADAM, is a life giving soul, the LAST ADAM, meaning being made flesh, is that life giving Spirit...His resurrection life.

Death is something "passed down". through the first Adam. Satan held the power of death, says Hebrews 2, until Christ through His resurrection won victory over death.

This is our world, and has nothing whatsoever with the world that was before us. WORLD"S" is used in scripture, and it doesn't mean other planets. "The world THAT was then", was not another planet.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/14

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Samuelbb7- Yes I agree, Marc has lied and used scare tactics regarding blood transfusions. My post was true in that millions have died due to blood transfusions- according to the W.H.O., in sub-sahara Africa alone, 25million have died due to AIDS related illnesses, 10pc they say through blood transfusions and bad blood (dirty needles). That's 2.5million people- includidng children- have died because of blood and blood transfusions- Acts 15:28.

A good hospital will tell you that non-blood medical management is the gold standard.

I agree that one must be born again to see 'the Kingdom of God' (Jo.3:3). But please show me where as you claim: "to be saved... you must be born again" is explicitly stated in scripture?
---David8318 on 2/24/14

Scripture says death came into the world because of, and obviously after Adam's sin. The various Gap Theories are not from Scripture and undermine the gospel. I have tried to get you to address this reality but you will not. Warwick///

1st Corin 15:22For as "in Adam" all die, even so in Christ "shall all" be made alive.

Animals and plants were never IN ADAM and will not be made alive IN CHRIST. Romans 5 is also dealing with the CREATION of "Man". Adam and Eve did not INSTANTLY physically DIE when they ate of the fruit. SO, it depends on your understanding of death. We are all born dead IN SIN, we still bring life into this world everyday. "Creation" means having never existed prior.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/14

//---chria9396 on 2/23/14//
Blessing Chria,


With the Hebrew - 'the opening words' defines the name of the book given.
With Torah the very first word is [Bereshyth]
The Letters Bet,resh,aleph,shin,yod,het
B r a sh'h

The letter B [Heb 'Bet'] is prefix defined 'In'. The pictograph is a tent floor.

The letter R [Heb 'resh'] root word [rosh] the pictograph is a mans Head.

The fear of the (LORD [YHVH]) is the (beginning[reshiyt]) of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

---char on 2/24/14

Glory to Elohyim for giving the strength and boldness to post-
and Thank you Joseph for acting on it.

//---chria9396 on 2/23/14//
Blessings Chria,

We Keep in mind the Hebrew perspective is 'concrete' and the Greek perspective is 'abstract'. We can see the Greek influence which is 'philosophical' throughout translation.

This is no happenstance.

Col2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ

The Hebrew mind did not think this way (philosophical), they understood Elohyim Exist ([olam]'beyond the horizon') translated with the Greek perspective (eternal).

---char on 2/24/14

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Joseph, I also thank you for starting this blog or rather starting where another left off. It wasn't until someone here pointed it out that I even knew it existed.

And my apologies to Warwick in wondering if you just refused to answer any more on the other one.

I have nothing more to add, as I already expressed on another blog Warwick chased me down on concerning a totally different subject.

Now my question is only this, has Warwick also told Joseph that he too has totally destroyed the foundation of truth like I have?
---kathr4453 on 2/24/14

Warwick, Like I have said before, my posts are not intended to argue your beliefs, or to suggest that you are incorrect concerning them, but rather to simply express my own, and to answer your question "Can you supply any Scripture to support your idea?" Obviously you do not think my "idea" is supported by the scriptures I have offered. That's Ok, I acknowledge my fallibility, and the finiteness of my understanding. I appreciate your taking the time to attempt to correct a brother you believe to be in error. Fortunately for me, if I am, this is not a salvation issue:o), because it is indeed what I believe. I am sure, that 'if' I am misunderstanding this, Father will forgive.
---joseph on 2/24/14

Joseph, your part 3 blog shows where your error begins. Only the KJV says 'replenish the earth' while modern translations including NIV,ESV, NASB, Holman, etc all use 'fill the earth.' They are correct. When the KJV was translated 'replenish' (from the French replenir) meant fill, not refill, but in the intervening centuries replenish has come to mean 'refil.' The KJV is now in error here, only because of the change in language, and gives the false idea that the world needed replenishing. This was one of the things which lead to the invention of the Gap Threory.
---Warwick on 2/24/14

Joseph, ch.1 catalogues God's 6 days of creation and 1 of rest. An unbroken monologue.

Earth was firstly formless, confirmed by Genesis 1:9. the land now appearing. That it was created empty is shown from following verses which show God filled it with life.

What I am saying is confirmed by Scripture.

Conversely what you are promoting is in opposition to Scripture, based upon the assumption that the billions of years evolutionists promote are demonstrable scientific fact. No one here has been able or willing to explain how such time-spans can be proved by the scientific method.

There is no mention of a gap or destruction in Genesis or anywhere in Scripture.
---Warwick on 2/23/14

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"joseph, thank you for starting this "blog".
You are quite welcome Chria.
"much of what I had to post was already posted, I let it go."
Please don't, your perspective is always appreciated
---joseph on 2/23/14

World flood blog.things intended to post but posted by joseph,char.

looking into let the earth bring forth have come across
Beginning H7225 - re'shiyth
first, beginning, best, chief
re'shiyth can also be translated first fruits.

From H7218 - ro'sh

Char, you posted

Bereshyth-Compare/contrast with H7225 - re'shiyth?

created (gen 1:1)

H1254 - bara'
Gen 2:2
"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made,..."

Made in this verse
H6213 - `asah

Earth often H776 - 'erets
Sometimes H127 - 'adamah

From H119 - 'adam...
---chria9396 on 2/23/14


thank you for starting this "blog".

These posts bless, and allow an opportunity to continue discussions

Been thinking of "treasure in earthen vessels" 2 Cor 4:7

I had more to post on the closed blogs, but when I saw that closed, and also saw that much of what I had to post was already posted, I let it go.
---Chria9396 on 2/23/14

Part. 5 Again, as pointed out earlier, He did not create the earth in vain which is the same word used for without form in both Gen.1:2 & Jer.4:23. Again, 2 Pet.3:5,6 documents the destruction of the first world, Heaven and Earth, with an overflow>G2646,-kataklzo from G2596 and the base of G2830 >( to overwhelm with an intense surge of water). Thus he again framed, as in thoroughly restored it for man. Warwick I will summarize, in a final post concerning this subject, that you and any other interested party may know exactly what I believe concerning this. To come.
---joseph on 2/21/14

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On the Suicide Blogg.. I would like to add that I began to think that yes, How selfish the thought / person who commits suicide but then yesterday Got to thinking

God Forgive me' because 1. The person is not in their right mind. We got to be carefull not to judge.. I believe God can so,loving
Who knows His final decision?

I always PRAY - God please KEEP my mind! You can be in anytype situation You NEED to be in the right mind.. God will keep you. I believe even in death. I am in pain most pf the time, I pray and pray and it comes & goes.. God has to keep my mind. I got to keep the faith NO Matter how I feel.. Ps.61:1 Ps.51:12
Thanks Bro.Joseph Good idea finnish Blogg!
---Lidia4796 on 2/21/14

Part 2. 2Pet.3:5 By the word of God the heavens were of old [ancient times] and the earth standing out of water and in the water, whereby the world [cosmos-the orderly harmonious universe] that then was, being overflowed with water, perished [was fully destroyed]. Second witness, Jer.4:23-25 I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void, and the heavens and they had no light We now enter into this dispensation of time. and darkness was upon the face of the deep [a surging mass of water]. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said.... Cont. Pt.3
---joseph on 2/21/14

From the "World Flooded With Water" blog. "Joseph, I asked you,regarding your belief in an earlier creation-"Can you supply any Scripture to support your idea? How about an answer?" Warwick, this has been asked and answered, however I will repost those answers Just for you:o) This will take several post, which is among the reasons I initiated this tread.
---joseph on 2/21/14

Warwick, Gen.1:1 "In the beginning God created [as the formative process] the heaven and the earth." Something obviously happened between verse 1 & 2. Isa.45:18 "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens, God Himself formed [determined & purposed] the earth and made [brought it forth & accomplished] it. He has established it. He created it not in vain [as in a desolation of surface, worthless, without form or void], He formed it to be inhabited." Gen.1:2 And the earth 'was' (Hebrew word "Hayah" stgs 1961 "To be" or "to become" future tense."[Became]" past tense) without form, and void, How? Cont. 2
---joseph on 2/21/14

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Part. 3 The Genesis account from 1:2 forward documents the restoration, rather than the creation of the earth. Man was created to replenish the earth. [To make full or complete again]. Though faith we understand that the worlds (plural) were (past tense) framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. The word framed as used in this verse has two distinct meanings both of which are applicable to this one verse. Framed>Katartizo Strongs G2675 1. Prepare perfectly complete 2.Thoroughly repaired or restored.Cont. pt. 4
---joseph on 2/21/14

Part. 4 The word Worlds as used in Heb.11:3 is defined as-An age, past, present or future. Since the word is plural & referenced in the past tense, it can only be referring to the establishment this age & one prior to it. The Earth was created framed, as in prepared perfectly complete in the beginning. Like everything brought forth from it in the restoration, nothing needed to be added or subtracted from it. Isa,45:18 documents this, particularly the word established H3559-Kuwn which means perfectly prepared the position & condition of in the language used. Cont. pt.5
---joseph on 2/21/14

As concerning the Earth ages, I believe there will be three total. The earth age pass, the one we are currently living in, and an earth age to come. I believe in the age past, the "Sons of God", tangibly walked this earth. As it is written concerning one I believe to have been he who is now called Satan, "You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering:,..You were the anointed cherub who covers. I established you. You were on the holy mountain of God, You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones." I believe that In the third and final age we will share, with them, minus Satan and His following, the beauty, peace and joy of all of that the Father has prepared for those who love Him.
---joseph on 2/21/14

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