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Gap Theory Vegetation

In considering the "gap theory" did all vegetation stem from one seed of every plant spreading over the whole earth? (taking time) or all at once?

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 ---1st_cliff on 3/28/14
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Oh, Sorry: 30 years Building Ministry plus 3.5 Ministry plus 3.5 days on the Cross plus 40 days among Nations and then, The Ascension plus Pentecost to about 31.5 days which is about: 3.655 years of Ministry and 30 years of Building Ministry.

12292.48875 days~ to 30 AD,~

1260, 1290, and 1335 days are written.

144,000/12,292.48875 = 11.714470757599839170078557118875

12 - 11.7144707 = 1/3.502268 = 0.28552924240016082992144288112527

1/3 - 0.2855292424 = 1/20.918 = ~1/21

I came to bring Division and a Sword.
---yohanness_davsidon on 8/27/14

What an exotic picture of me Travesty has created in his overheated imagination.

As he pictures me:

Seriously, striving spectacularly at good works, to be seen of men,
finest phylacteries flowing,
magnificently gargantuan garment borders a flapping, peasants agog,
strutting self-importantly though markets to the cries of Rabbi, Rabbi,
make way sirrah I imperiously cry, begone,
I, me, myself, personally, rush to just another upper VIP room for chicken and chips,
then cometh Saturday Sabbath when I recline beside other men of renown, at rest, in my apportioned and definitely deserved domicile!

Love is patient and kind, love does not envy or boast, it is not arrogant 1 Corinthians 13:4
---Warwick on 8/28/14

Scripture I believe through GOD's witnesses...self proclaimed preachers I don't for lack of the same.-Trav on 8/27/14

Folks follow these one witness doctrines and expect to find God, and when they don't, these folks turn away.
Those who stay, are blinded by pride, pride in their "wisdom" about God.

Their teachers are like men who say they can turn lead into Gold, and though they have never proven they can do this, their sheep continue to follow.

I tell those who have turned away, do what Jesus told you to do, and then you will know the Truth. The Truth which comes from God, is what makes a man wise.

Instruction (Faith) without action is worthless.
---David on 8/28/14

My question is, Why argue about something that has nothing to do with our salvation?

God is outside of time. He says in his word that He controls time and his time is not ours. When God says 6 days then it is 6 days. We have to remember that God is outside of time looking at his whole creation and controlling it. If you want to believe that it is 6 of man's days, then that fine. If you want to believe it is 6 of God's days, that is fine too. just because we know what makes up something and how it is created does not mean we know it all. So, why even argue? Paul said the same thing. God has extended days and shortened them. So how do you know which one is right when God says both in his word? You don't. so why argue about it?
---g on 8/28/14

But if you don't believe Scripture....
---Warwick on 8/27/14

Scripture I believe through GOD's witnesses...self proclaimed preachers I don't for lack of the same.

Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ, and all ye are brethren.
---Trav on 8/27/14

yohanness_davsidon: n"33.655 {~years of Messiah's Ministry} "

Christ didn't minister for 33 years - approximately.
---Steveng on 8/27/14

Everything which was created (including Adam and Eve) was created in the six days outlined in Genesis ch 1 "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them.....

But if you don't believe Scripture....
---Warwick on 8/27/14

6th Day is written concerning Adam, 1 + 5
---yohanness_davsidon on 8/27/14

As you prefer, to each his own. It still adds up, computes/equates as promised.<
Deu_32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
Hos_1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered, and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Your math has limits in truth. Boundaries in math are a sandy foundation to build on.
---Trav on 8/27/14

Also notice:

~4.54 Billion/490^3 = 38.589363275505954151756496017816 period... - 33.655 {~years of Messiah's Ministry} = 4.9343632755059541517564960178157 = ~5, 5th seal, 5 have fallen, ONE IS, ONE is yet to come.

6th Day is written concerning Adam, 1 + 5
---yohanness_davsidon on 8/27/14

gap theory:from Daniel

70 x 7 = 490, with one 7 year period held back until just before the Premillennial period with the tribulation and Great Tribulation periods which is cut short to 1335 days or 44 1/2 months or 3.655 years.

4.54 Billion years/490x490 = 18,908.78800499791753436068304873 'years'?

7069~ before the flood since Adam + 7046 BC~ + 2014 = ~16,129 years.

a difference of 2779.7880049979175343606830487297 years.

2777 in 2016...

5777 on the Judean calendar...

2779 - 1776 = 1003 years.

5777 - 1776 = 4001, the feeding of the 4,000.
---yohanness_davsidon on 8/27/14

The earth is over 4 billion years old, young earth creationism is simply delusional. Such will full ignorance drives rational people into agnosticism.
---Let_kloth on 8/18/14

I won't choose a birthdate for the earth. No man can or they would not be haggling over it.
Easily resolved by believing scripture. Adam created in the 2nd chapter of Genesis. Created after Gen 1 pre creation. Adam's lineage is who the bible records. As a people, a collective wife, a servant and Government with a heart all the way through revelations.
Gen_5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him,
Even so called preachers and scientist cannot find or embrace it.
---Trav on 8/27/14

Jerry, I don't think you will ever get the proof you ask for. Let is just another hit and run merchant who sprays a broadside which he cannot justify, then hits the road!
---Warwick on 8/25/14

Let: I'm still waiting for your proof!

I want to comment on scientists. It irks me somewhat when I hear remarks like "scientists believe this or that". I am a degreed scientist (Physics), and since we are people, we scientists don't agree on everything anymore than we Christians do. Some scientists hold opinions based on money, their findings tend to agree with the desires of their benefactors. Others base their conclusions on conjectures arising from a pre-determined or political mindset. Cosmology, Evolution and Man-made Global Warming are examples of these.

---jerry6593 on 8/23/14

If I read your statement correctly, I believe you are right on. What people forget like Scientist, is God. When God speaks, it is done. It does not take millions of years to get it done.
Scientist can measure the time of light, but they cannot measure God. They do not take God at His word. Only Christians do that. Man was not made a baby, but a grown up man. Everything was created as He wanted it to be created.
---Luke on 8/21/14

The scientists are correct, but they left out one word - "appear."

Alpha Centauri (the nearest star from the earth), "appears" to be five billion years old. Science has determined that light travels at 186,000 mile per second and through triangulation determed the distance.

It is written that God created everything when he spoke it into existance - the planets, the stars - and the light from the star. If God created Alpha Centauri, the earth, AND the light coming from the star last week, it would "appear" Alpha Centauri is five billion years old having a distance of 6,000 light years.

The same holds true for the rocks.
---Steveng on 8/20/14

People who fling the millions/billions of years idea about usually don't have any idea about how these vast ages have been established. We are lead to believe a rock is placed in a machine and a date appears. This is not so as the machinery used gives only chemical ratios and time spans are imposed upon these results. Further the testing is based upon untestable results so cannot be verified scientifically. They are believed by faith.

At the Uinkaret Plateau at the Grand Canyon the K-Ar (Potassium-Argon) method was used to test the age of basalt. Six tests gave 'ages' from 100,000 to 17,000,000 years. One Pb-Pb (lead-lead) isochron test gave an age of 2,600,000,000 (i.e. 2,600 million years) which one do you believe? Why believe any?
---Warwick on 8/19/14

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Let Kloth "The earth is over 4 billion years old, young earth creationism is simply delusional". I would like to declare that I am absolutely ecstatic that you, Let Kloth, would consider me delusional
---Rita_H on 8/19/14

Let: "The earth is over 4 billion years old, young earth creationism is simply delusional."

Really? Show us your proof. Are you an atheist? Do you believe in abiogenesis? If so, you are simply delusional.

---jerry6593 on 8/19/14

How long do grapes turn into wine? Jesus spoke plain water into wine as he spoke it.

How long does modern medicine take to heal a leaper? Jesus healed the leaper as he spoke it.

How long does modern medicine take to heal a whithered hand, a paralyzed man, a women of internal bleeding, a 38 year invalid, restoring a severed ear? Jesus healed each of these persons as he spoke it.

How long does modern medicine take to bring the dead to life?

How long would it take to calm a storm or walk on water?

Counterfeit christians have the knowledge of God, but deny his power. They accept man's interpretation instead of God's.
---Steveng on 8/18/14

The earth is over 4 billion years old, young earth creationism is simply delusional. Such will full ignorance drives rational people into agnosticism.
---Let_kloth on 8/18/14

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The Gap Theory, like its cousin the Evolutionary Hypothesis, relies on the assumption that the "days" of Genesis are actually millions of years long. But, since Genesis plainly states that each and every "day" has a light half and a dark half, then these specious theories must incorporate alternately millennia of light and darkness. No plant could survive either. It would burn up in the light and freeze in the darkness.

---jerry6593 on 8/16/14

Jerry, that is not considering the Gap theory.
That is considering the Truth.
Even though God did create all the plants on day 3,
he had made a special garden for man.
Now, after the global flood is a different story. The whole earth will no longer be covered in plant life, for the conditions had changed catastrophically.
We are in agreement here.
---micha9344 on 6/16/14

Cliff: All at once!

Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done, he commanded, and it stood fast.

---jerry6593 on 6/14/14

Dear Warwick,
You are perfectly correct that the gap theory under minds the truth of the word of God. It is someone's opinion only. Taught by many for the simple purpose of contradicting what they Bible teaches. If there was sin and disease before Adam sinned, then God lied to us, and we know that is not possible. Agape
---Luke on 6/2/14

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Warwick, I know you didn't say I said,I was just telling you how I feel about that. Sorry you took it the wrong way. I said in one post my words don't come out like my brain is thinking.
---shira4368 on 6/2/14

Shira, I have never said you believe in the Gap Theory. Why would you think that?

I know you are not much interested in the Gap Theory but you need to understand we do know the truth of the issue. The Gap Theory is not mentioned anywhere in Scripture, and is in direct contradiction to what God's word says. It is a man-made idea which puts death, suffering and disease before Adam's sin whereas Scripture says these things came after and because of Adam's sin. The Gap Theory therefore undermines the gospel so should be rejected.
---Warwick on 6/1/14

Warwick, I never said I believed the gap theory. I think I said no one knows the real truth but I also said lineage has been traced all the way back to Adam. I also said if it had been important, God would have put it inHis Word.
---shira4368 on 6/1/14

Peter consider what Vine says:

"an opinion especially a self-willed opinion which is substituted for submission to the power of truth", i.e. something which replaces Biblical truth is heresy. The Gap theory is a nonBiblical opinion.

"and leads to division and the formations of sects." Division definitely.

".., such erroneous opinions are frequently the outcome of personal preference or the prospect of advantage" The Gap Theory is both opinion and preference. Its proponents prefer the opinions of man over the word of God. This is heresy.
---Warwick on 6/1/14

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Peter I don't blame you. Frankly I thought about it as I read your post. I was thinking the "the gap don't make sense. Bible students can trace the lineage back to Adam. God put the lineage in the bible to show how Saran tried to destroy Jesus and he started in genesis.
---shira4368 on 6/1/14

Shira: I do not think that we NEED the gap idea.....

On the other hand, I hear many other things in the church that I worry about even more, with extremely liberal views coming in, so sometimes I may not always argue with gap people as I will be too busy with people who seem to claim to be Christians but basically not believe in anything from the Creed!

So I spend more time arguing with them

Fortunately I go to a church which, while Church of England, is completely evangelical - a rarity in the US
---Peter on 5/31/14

Warwick: While I agree that the gap idea is not mentioned in the Bible, I would not go so far as listing it as a heresy - even from the description of a heresy in Vines Expository Dictionary. The reason for that is that I question whether gap either forms a sect (one meaning used in Vines) or that people who believe that gain anything from it (another meaning used there).

However, I do not mind AT ALL if you consider gap theory to be a heresy - I just consider it a mistake
---Peter on 5/31/14

Shira, the gap idea is not mentioned in Scripture. And I agree with you that if it was fact God obviously would have mentioned such a cataclysmic event. However the idea does not come from Scripture but from man. I believe the Gap Theory conforms to the definition of heresy: "an opinion especially a self-willed opinion which is substituted for submission to the power of truth and leads to division and the formations of sects, such erroneous opinions are frequently the outcome of personal preference or the prospect of advantage" Vines Expository Dictionary of Biblical words.

Yes I am also concerned about family members who refuse Jesus free gift. However that is their choice. But, praise God, there is still time.
---Warwick on 5/30/14

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Dear Shira,
I agree with you on your comments. When you said it was not important to know the details, that is so true. If God wanted us to know the details of everything He would have told us, and if He told us, we would have a bible so big, that we could not ever read it all. I know many are curious for every detail and sometimes, the detail we want to know are found somewhere else in Scripture. But not all the time, Agape
---Luke on 5/30/14

Warwick, I said if it had been important God would have put it in His Word. There may have been a gap. We will never know. I can tell you bible scholars has traced lineage back to genesis and concluded the earth is about 4000 yrs old. That being said, I don't know what I believe about this but I don't worry about it. I worry about some of my family is not saved. That to me is important. Thanks Warwick. You have a lot of knowledge.
---shira4368 on 5/28/14

Shira, now I am more confused. Did you mean that if there was a gap in Genesis ch.1 God would have mentioned it?
---Warwick on 5/28/14

Dear Warwick,
You are totally correct on the context of Jeremiah 4. The passages in (v.23,24) are not talking about Genesis but about the destruction or judgment on the cities of Israel. The whole land is plundered, and is void of inhabitants due to slaying and flight. The heaven gave no light possibly due to smoke from fires that were destroying the cities (v.7,20). Agape
---Luke on 5/28/14

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what I said was "If God had thought it was important, He would have put it in His Word". that is all I said.
---shira4368 on 5/27/14

Warwick, when I said " I like to just be simple" was saying it isn't important for us to know all the details. I said if it had been important God would have put it in His Word. I save details for my art.
---shira4368 on 5/27/14

Shira, sorry you think I missed the point but I cannot see how I did. You appear to be saying that we don't need to know the details but details of what?

Read the scriptures I gave. Don't they say the details are vital, and available from study and prayer? How can we give reasons for the hope we have if we don't know the details?

Also I am convinced the Gap Theory is contradicted by Scripture, only fostered by those who will not believe all of God's word, preferring to believe man, not God, about the age of the earth.
---Warwick on 5/27/14

No Warwick you missed the point. The subject of the gap theory is never going to be settled as a sure fact. I know God is in control of all and He knows every detail. I'm just believing that if it was important God would have told us. What is important is salvation for as many as believed.
---shira4368 on 5/27/14

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Shira, you wrote "I just like to be simple. Just believe God did it all." Consider this via 1 Peter 3:15 "....always being prepared to make a defence to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you." Is "just believe God did it all" what God, through Peter is commanding?

Romans 1:20 "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Isn't God telling us that His Creation makes Him obvious so unbelievers" are without excuse"? Does He anywhere tell us our feelings or beliefs are the right defence of our faith.
---Warwick on 5/26/14

Like I like your post. You are practical and Warwick is scientific. Me... I just like to be simple. Just believe God did it all. Amen
---shira4368 on 5/26/14

Joseph, again you begin with false premises. Jeremiah describes Judah attacked and ruined by Nebuchadnezzar, because of sin. Ch. 4 begins "If you will return, O Israel, return to me." Verse 23 reads "I looked at the earth and it was formless and empty" As Gill says re verse 23 "I beheld the earth,.... The land of Judea, not the whole world,.." The word 'eres', depending upon context, means the whole earth or the land. Here Jeremiah writes of the destruction of Judea, not the whole earth. Likewise "formless and empty" refers to its war-ruined state: all towns destroyed and no people left. This has nothing to do with "formless and empty" in Genesis-totally different context.
---Warwick on 5/26/14

Has anyone else pondered the fact that even in the summertime, outer space is cold, at least so I've heard:o) It would seem, logically, that the closer one got to the sun, the hotter it would get. Bryan's statement about the snow balls really started me thinking about this. Of course in the Father's plan for the salvation of man, this train of thought is meaningless, other than the fact that it engages the mind. Although he who is spiritually minded should focus on the things above, and not the things below, at times these type of discussions are fun for me:o) May everyones beliefs grant them peace, happiness, and assurance, mine does:o) Be blessed.
---joseph on 5/26/14

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"Jeremiah does not mention a frozen wasteland." "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void, and the heavens, and they had no light." Again "without form, and void" "to lie waste, a desolation (of surface), a vacuity, an indistinguishable ruin. Strongs H8414>H922" No light=no heat=frozen. "the fruitful place was a wilderness," a wasteland.
---joseph on 5/25/14

Joseph we can propose speculative ideas, and I have done my share over the decades. However we should change our ideas when confronted by solid evidence, as you have done. Though not highly qualified scientifically I have contact with scientists worldwide. I can always check things with them.

I used false premise when referring to the Gap/Ruin Reconstruction Theory which is based upon 2 false premises. Firstly that Genesis 1:28 says the earth has to be refilled. And secondly that the millions of years the theory is based upon are scientific fact. This idea is based upon untestable assumptions, therefore not scientific fact.

As to the age of the earth shouldnt we Christians accept what God says, not mans speculations?
---Warwick on 5/25/14

Dear Joseph,
I agree with what you just said. It is only speculation, or your own opinion.
As Shira said, God did not feel it was necessary for us to know every detail.
In my own opinion, when God created the heavens and the earth, He called everything to be, and those things were there, at the exact age God wanted it to be. Fossils at the exact age God wanted them to be. The heavens and all things in the heaven at the exact age God wanted them to be. Each star and planted at the exact age God wanted to be. The stars did not have to age. He called them and they were there. Man did not have to be born a baby either. It is after all my own opinion. We all have an opinion. The way we think things happened. Agape
---Luke on 5/25/14

Joseph the earth is more than 6 or 7 thousand years old sinful man appear about 6 or 7 thusand years age. God has been try to help us get back to were we should be since our fall. Gravity does not lie it works just as God said. It holds everything in it's place. The earth is out of place in fact it is not perfectly round like it should be. Soon there will be a day it will be put back in it's place. God so loved the world. His blood redeems man and the world to. Water, wind, gravity, it move seed around. Seed are tuff you can feeze than for a 10 thousand years thall them out and they still work. Space is a very cool place With snow balls flying every were. Put the two together the perfect incubator.
---Bryan on 5/25/14

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Warwick I will defer to you, I am no scientist. What I posted concerning the Dino was conjecture, speculation, opinion, premise, or whatever term you deem applicable, you seem to prefer the term "false premise":o). As concerning the age of the Earth, personally I have no idea how old it is. It was already here when I was Born:o) Warwick I have never said you were wrong in your understanding, only that I understand this subject differently. The general consensus among the Christian community is that the earth is approximately six thousand years old. Therefore you are in good company.
---joseph on 5/24/14

Joseph, regarding Jeremiah 4:23-25 you wrote "I would ask you to consider and answer this for yourself, has the geographical area of Zion, the land of Judah, or the city of Jerusalem, in the recorded history of man, biblically or otherwise, ever been a frozen wasteland devoid of life?" Jeremiah does not mention a frozen wasteland.

Regarding Jeremiah 4:26, 27 you wrote "Has the City of Jerusalem ever been totally destroyed "at the presence of the LORD"? Jer.4,26,27. Show where that has occurred, & you will have proven your point." This is about the land of Israel ruined by Nebuchadnezzar but not completely destroyed-see verse 27.

Doesn't support your Gap/Ruin and Reconstruction belief.
---Warwick on 5/24/14

Joseph the relevant scientific papers show the T-Rex remains were not frozen, but amazingly only part permineralized (still bone) and part containing blood vessels, soft tissue and blood cells. Dr Schweitzer (who made the discovery) is recorded as saying "It was exactly like looking at a slice of modern bone. But of course, I couldn't believe it. I said to the lab technician: "The bones are, after all, 65 million years old. How could blood cells survive that long?" It is only Dr Schweitzers evolutionary indoctrination which causes her to miss the obvious: that the T-Rex bones and tissue are quite fresh, so fresh the odour of decay was detected!

Conversely the mammoths are only supposedly thousands of years old.
---Warwick on 5/24/14

Were any of you there at the time of creation?

Shira is correct, it does not matter to today's christians. What does matter is looking forward toward the soon to come Kingdom of God and how to get there - and to preach the word.

Christians are not to know all the mysteries of God.

But let's look at some facts about dinosours if you insist.

1. The word "dinosaur" come into existand in the early 1800s when man first discover dinosaur bones.

2. Man's footprints were found next to dinosaur prints.

3. Cave drawings are found throughout the world depicting man hunting dinosaurs.

4. Statues of dinosaur-like creatures are also found throughout the world - some as recent as 800 years ago.
---Steveng on 5/23/14

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Very much - appreciating your post.
Char, the feeling is most definitely mutual.
---joseph on 5/23/14

Joseph & kathr

Very much - appreciating your post.
God bless.

---char on 5/23/14

Interestingly, and relevantly T-Rex bones containing blood cells, and flexible tissue have been found in the USA---Warwick on 5/5/14 Warwick, this discovery is further evidence of the fact that this Earth is older than traditional Christianity believes it to be. That T-Rex would have to have been frozen quickly, and remained that way until recently. That discovery can only be attributed to what had to have been an event so cataclysmic that it literally cause the earth to quickly become one big ball of ice. Which would have had to have been caused by a total flooding of the earth, combined with a sudden removal of planets heat source. Such a cataclysmic event as this has never occurred in this dispensation of time.
---joseph on 5/23/14

Warwick, from the "When Were Angels Created" Blog.
"Joseph, regarding Jeremiah ch.4 where did I say Jerusalem had "been totally destroyed"?
---Warwick on 5/21/14

Warwick why are you asking me this question? I never said that you did.

"Joseph, from another thread. That frozen mammoths exist is not evidence for an ancient earth as per Jerry's challenge as he is referring to the evolutionists belief in billions of years, not thousands of years.

Now if you were talking about dinosaurs that would be a different thing."

Response to come, next post.
---joseph on 5/22/14

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Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,

---jerry6593 on 5/12/14

In considering the "gap theory" did all vegetation stem from one seed of every plant spreading over the whole earth? (taking time) or all at once. 1st_cliff on 3/28/14

1st cliff, how can any life grow that was in darkness and a frozen ball with ice around it? Vegetation began just as God said. There was no vegetation that took billions of years to come to fruition. The Gap does not believe Life of any sort lived at the time of this gap. The GAP is that period where some kind of chaos happened and for possibly millions of years the earth remained a dark void mudball without any sun or light to give life to anything. The GAP is not a theory of another kind of evolution. We don't know what the earth was like before Satan fell.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/14

Warwick, there are many things that I don't understand but I think if it had been important God would have put it In His Word. The bible does not mention dinosaurs. we know there were. In Waco Texas is a museum on the site where mammoth elephants were found. There were a few and I don't recall how many but the university of Texas said they probably drowned from floods. Very interesting. Warwick I also believe what the bible says... Every single word.
---shira4368 on 4/1/14

You are a sad man, destroyed by your time with the JW's. It is time for you to move on.
---Warwick on 3/31/14

Take heart Cliff...better the man/Cliff who enquires...more especially of the Lord, than poser authorities who destroy by their own counsel.

Jer_12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Rom_10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Jas_3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
---Trav on 4/1/14

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Shira, I mistook your point. Do you mean God would have mentioned the Genesis gap, if it was real? If that is what you mean I of course agree.

You appeared to be saying that it does not matter whether there was a gap or not so please understand my comments in that light as the Gap Theory is contrary to Scripture as it undermines the foundational cause of why Jesus came, died, and rose again. That surely matters.
---Warwick on 4/1/14

Shira: "scientist and the bible are totally opposites"

I strongly disagree! I am a degreed (Physics) scientist who firmly believes the inerrancy of the Bible. True science will always be 100% in agreement with the Bible. The problem arises when either the Bible is misinterpreted or the political conjecture masquerading as science is continually disseminated.

1Ti 6:20 O [Shira], keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

---jerry6593 on 4/1/14

warwick, I will still say if it was not important, God would have put it in His Word. scientist and the bible are totally opposites. according to the bible, the earth is appr 4000 years old but scientist say its millions of years old. I still will stick to the bible.
---shira4368 on 3/31/14

Let's look at what the scriptures tell us and quit being ignorant. (Ignorant means uneducated.)

Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

The key phrase is "and the evening and the morning were the third day."

The Lord created it all in one day! Does that make sense or am I going too fast for you?
---trey on 3/31/14

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Cliff, I gave up engaging with you ages ago and will not be doing so now. Your desire to believe anything other than what God's word says condemns you.

You are a sad man, destroyed by your time with the JW's. It is time for you to move on.
---Warwick on 3/31/14

Shira, you are avoiding the obvious.

The Gap Theory theorizes that there is a Gap in Genesis ch.1 where the imagined millions of years can be accommodated. These millions of years idea originally came about when secular (nonChristian) geologists began to believe the fossil record was a record of these millions of years. The fossil record contains the remains of billions of creatures including man. It therefore places the death of man before Adam's sin. The gospel you write about is based on the fact that death came into the world because of, therefore obviously after, Adam's rebellion. Therefore how can you say it does not matter to the gospel?
---Warwick on 3/31/14

If God thought we needed to know about the gap theory, He would have put it in the bible. Actually the only thing that matters Is being saved then we can study all the rest. It doesn't matter if there was a gap or wasn't a gap. It is not important.
---shira4368 on 3/31/14

Warwick, **He created in six days of the same length and rested the seventh day of the same length**
Same length as each other, yes, scripture doesn't say same length as His yom!, only that there was six and one!
Evening and morning are two parts of a four part day, evening, NIGHT, morning, AFTERNOON!
In the middle east it's evening to evening (sundown to sundown)
Anywhere in the world evening to morning is "overnight" Not a day! I'm not tied to an "ism"
---1st_cliff on 3/31/14

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In Genesis ch.1 God says "And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day." Even today in the middle East each day begins at evening which continues (in darkness)until it is morning, which continues (in daylight) until once again it is evening. So simple!

I thought most Christians would have known that in the Jewish system Saturday (the Sabbath) begins at evening Friday. Did you get that-Saturday begins on what we call Friday!

Why did Gods people work 6 24hr days and take 1 24hr day of rest? Because days are 24hrs long and God said they must do this because He created in 6 days of the same length and rested the 7th day of the same length.
---Warwick on 3/31/14

Cliff: "You imagine that you have it all down pat, because there's a 6 day work week that you interpret as the same length as 6 creation "Yoms" simply because they "seem" to match."

Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:...
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

God wrote that with His own finger - not me. It is clear, unmistakable, and not at all suggestive of any long age gaps at all. It is you who have the false interpretation.

---jerry6593 on 3/31/14

Cliff, why make things so difficult? The Bible states many things in Genesis, but God does not give us details of everything. The information is for those who believe, they don't have to question every detail.
Can you not just take the word of God as it is written? When He created things, He created them period. He spoke and it was done. He wanted stars and there they were just as He wanted them. How the stars age was already taken care of by God. When He created the grass, it was done. Did He mentioned every seed of grass? Of course not. Why question everything?
---Luke on 3/31/14

Give one good reason why "evening to morning" is not metaphorical for from darkness to light,(or start to finish) since day is always 12am to 12am, from night to night, or daylight to daylight or sundown to sundown! Never "night to morning"
Nothing was pronounced "good" 'till the end of the "yom"!(when it was completed)Certainly His creation took six yoms that he used as a "pattern" to institute the work week law!
Six of "His" yoms would have been too long before human resting!
Each week the people worked 6 and rested 1 they proclaimed God as Creator to the rest of the world!
---1st_cliff on 3/30/14

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Strangely so-called Christians refuse to believe what God has written. God firstly defined what a c24hr day is then says He created heaven and earth, and everything in them in 6 of these c24hr days.

Why then do some Christians refuse to take His word at face value? Is there a problem if we take God at His word, some negative consequence for us if we do? Nothing Biblical at all!

However if we take God at His word we are at odds with secular thinking and stand the risk of being ridiculed. Some Christians crumble before such ridicule and fall in line with God's enemies. They then begin to reinterpret Scripture using worldly knowledge, away from its plain meaning, ultimately denying Jesus rose from the dead.
---Warwick on 3/30/14

Hardly, Jerry, The error is not God's but the erroneous interpretation of man!
You imagine that you have it all down pat, because there's a 6 day work week that you interpret as the same length as 6 creation "Yoms" simply because they "seem" to match.
God used His 6 creation days as a pattern for the work week and you say "Ah there we have it" but do you???
---1st_cliff on 3/30/14

Cliff: "This "hurry up, git 'er done" nonsense spouted by so called bible experts, doesn't fit with God's character!"

Oh really? You mean like:

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done, he commanded, and it stood fast.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is

If God was as slow as you speculate, then He is a liar with a speech impediment.

---jerry6593 on 3/30/14

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